Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Arial]

I

If you believe in him and commit a deadly sin are you condemned?

All sin is deadly. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. If a person is in Christ through faith----"by grace you are saved through faith and that is a gift of God (not a Catholic priest)---they cannot go in and out of Christ. He says He will lose none that the Father has given Him and He will raise them up on the last day. On the cross Christ took the just punishment for the believers sin, so they would not have to face His wrath. What manner of love is this!? And their sins are forgiven as they have met justice. His righteousness is then counted as though it were their own. On the cross, in the grave, in His rising from the grave, in His return to the Father as mediator and High priest of the New Covenant, He defeated the power of sin to condemn His people. Those the Father gave Him.

 

[donadams]

All sin is deadly. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. If a person is in Christ through faith----"by grace you are saved through faith and that is a gift of God (not a Catholic priest)---they cannot go in and out of Christ. He says He will lose none that the Father has given Him and He will raise them up on the last day. On the cross Christ took the just punishment for the believers sin, so they would not have to face His wrath. What manner of love is this!? And their sins are forgiven as they have met justice. His righteousness is then counted as though it were their own. On the cross, in the grave, in His rising from the grave, in His return to the Father as mediator and High priest of the New Covenant, He defeated the power of sin to condemn His people. Those the Father gave Him.

Venial sin and deadly sin are equal?

Who says your going to stay in Christ?

Deadly sin kills the life of God in us (grace)

Spiritual death or separation from God, and dying in such a state is eternal!

Cannot be in Christ by faith alone!
Gal 3:27

2 pet 1:11 grace must be ministered unto you by the apostolic church

Can you be saved without a priest?

 

[donadams]

A two sided coin!

On God’s side His promises are absolute and God will always be faithful!

2 Tim 2:13


Our side of the coin has an if!
A big “if”!

Rom 11:22
Col 1:21-23
Col 2-5
Heb 12:22-25
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 3:4-6
Jn 2:24-25
2 Tim 2:11-13
Rom 8:17
Matt 28:20
Acts 1:2
Jn 15:4
Mk 13:13
Matt 24:14

We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Thks

 

[Arial]

Venial sin and deadly sin are equal?

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Who says your going to stay in Christ?

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

Deadly sin kills the life of God in us (grace)

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

Spiritual death or separation from God, and dying in such a state is eternal!

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

Cannot be in Christ by faith alone!
Gal 3:27

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

2 pet 1:11 grace must be ministered unto you by the apostolic church

Can you be saved without a priest?

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

 

[CrowCross]

You must choose to believe him and all he revealed and his church teaches abiding in him and enduring to the end!

They choose volition freely to be infidels

But God, I got baptized....I took communion...I went to Mass....I confessed my sins to a priest...I mixed dust into your blood so I could sweep it up easier...SEE!!! I survived until the end...How can you not let me in?

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

I did not say it was ok
I said there is difference venial sins do not cause spiritual death

1. 1 John 5:16
   If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
   
2. 1 John 5:17
   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

Jesus says abide and endure
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13 you must with free will choose to do so, then you can choose not to do so, then you could choose to do so! That’s free will!

I’m not saying you would but it is possible

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

God’s in us is called grace
We lose the grace of God and are separated from God (spiritual death) by deadly sin

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

“if” we are faithful

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Not called to “faith alone” Phil 1:29

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

Faith yes!
Faith alone no!

Baptismal regeneration is part of the Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church! Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

That is a tradition of man of the RCC. What God says about it is, if you sin, you will die. God isn't ok with even "little bitty sins."

Christ Himself says it and I pointed that out in post #141---the very post you are responding to.

I wasn't aware that God's life could be killed.

That is exactly what Jesus came to undo in the heart of the believer, and did do.

That doesn't say faith plus baptism. It says we are baptised into Christ through faith. Verse 23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then. the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

If your captors used all of scripture, and only scripture, instead of imposing their traditions onto scripture and into it, they would do a better job of doing the job they say only they have the authority to do.

That passage says nothing about grace being ministered by the apostolic church (which btw is the church as it existed in the days of the apostles).

I was saved by the HIgh Priest, Jesus Christ. He is the only savior.

And, I just realized that you have turned yet another thread that had nothing to do with Catholicism into a thread that is about Catholicism. I do not know how long this has been going on, and I was drawn into it accidently. But Don, if you do not stop doing this, you will receive a ban. You have been told repeatedly to stop doing it. It is nothing less than trolling.

What good is a forum that silences all opposition
Prevents all questions and comments

Forum: the free and open exchange of ideas!

 

[donadams]

But God, I got baptized....I took communion...I went to Mass....I confessed my sins to a priest...I mixed dust into your blood so I could sweep it up easier...SEE!!! I survived until the end...How can you not let me in?

You starting to sound like Mr glee

 

[donadams]

Why you think your not gonna in if you believe His words and obey?

I have no idea what mixed dust means

 

[Arial]

What good is a forum that silences all opposition
Prevents all questions and comments

Forum: the free and open exchange of ideas!

Have you been silenced Don? How long have you been here now? I have simply asked you over and over again not to change the subject of every thread you are in to a the subject of Catholic doctrines, no matter what the OP is about. That is actually one of the forum rules. I have had to do it so many times, to no avail, and that is why I said it is time now, that if you don't stop it, other measures to stop this continuous disruption of every other conversation people are trying to have----making it all about what you want---will have to be taken.

If all you want to talk about is the doctrines of the RCC there is an entire board for that. Plenty of people join those conversations so it should keep you happy.

 

[donadams]

Have you been silenced Don? How long have you been here now? I have simply asked you over and over again not to change the subject of every thread you are in to a the subject of Catholic doctrines, no matter what the OP is about. That is actually one of the forum rules. I have had to do it so many times, to no avail, and that is why I said it is time now, that if you don't stop it, other measures to stop this continuous disruption of every other conversation people are trying to have----making it all about what you want---will have to be taken.

If all you want to talk about is the doctrines of the RCC there is an entire board for that. Plenty of people join those conversations so it should keep you happy.

Ok sorry

 

[Tambora]

There is no verse in the Bible saying man does not have free will

Right.
There's no verse saying man or God has "free will" because the term "free will" never shows up for either.
However, scripture does have the term "freewill".

, hence the necessity of much bogus study to direct people's attention from that one simple fact.

Well said.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Many people ever learn how to change the Bible, because they don't want to know the truth of the Bible in the first place.

I just thank God I've learned I don't have to go through such exhaustion, and just go straight to the very beginning.

There is no verse saying man does not have free will, but there are verses saying we may do things freely, just like God:

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Eating freely is according to one's own free will. It's the same freedom of God given to them created in His image.

And of course, as if that were not enough, the Bible plainly says man has free will:

Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

As in all false teachings of unbelievers in the Bible, it helps to determine the cause for the obvious lie. In this case, rejecting personal free will is to reject personal responsibility for what we willingly do. It's just another excuse for willingly sinning against God, as though no man willingly does anything of his own choice.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Afterall, if we have no free will nor say in the matter of our deeds, then who is God to judge and condemn us? That would be unjust. It would also be malicious to also make man without free will, and then condemn us for only doing what we were made to do in the first place.

The saying, "It's not my fault, because God made me that way..." Would be true without being made with freewill to choose what to do or not to do. (The worst sort are those who take so headachingly long to say it, without just saying it already)

The only one making people without free will to choose what to do or not, is the god of this world, that allows no free will whatsoever for his slaves to sin.

Those who preach the god of no free will, are obviously not teaching the true God of the Bible, since He desires man to offer up freewill worship and service freely by love, and not just by law of commandment.

Now it's certainly true that no man has freedom of will to disobey God, and also remain alive to God forever. That's the false promise and hope of abusing free will to become as gods in our own right, power, and will.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

It's also a primer for predeterminism of puffed up little lambs, thinking they were with the Lamb and chosen before the world ever began.

Man with no free will is just another pagan ideology inserted into Christianity. It's the pagan deterministic fate of the gods.

The beginning purpose of God's revelation to all men in the Bible, is that the true God and Creator, creates all men and women in His image with freedom of will to choose for themselves, what they will do nor not do in this life. It destroys the whole pagan lie that some are born to rule and others are born to be slaves.

(Possibly worse yet, it's also unamerican. )

I like the way you talk!

 

[Mr GLee]

Imply that God is the source of the goodness that is reflected in his creation!

We still are made in the image and likeness of God (intellect & will)
Self determination and free will and can reject Christ and cast off the yoke of our baptism or by deadly sin be separated from God and Gis grace and to die unrepentant in this state means eternal damnation!

There can be no heavenly reward or hell punishment with “free will”!

No righteousness or iniquity without “free will”!

Dogma revealed truth taught by the apostolic church. Matt 28:19

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

Thanks

Yes Christ the husbands work of faith as a labor of his love .works every time . . . . let there be and it was good.
Yoked with him a daily sufferings is made light with a future hope a new incorruptible bodes beyond the grave (not limbo)

How does limbo and purgatory your living hope show the goodness of God reflected in His Creation ?

 

[Ladodgers6]

The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.

The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.

I will take on my time to understand what you wrote here, but I already noticed flaws in this premise. First of all, if Adam wasn't created with a free-will to choose to obey or disobey God. Then you have a serious problem here. Why? because then Adam sinned not according to his free-will but was coerced to sin. And if he was coerced to sin; having possessing a free-will, then he did not sin willingly, and was unjustly punished for it. Second, if Adam was created to sin by design meaning he was created to only sin because he doesn't have a free-will, then God is the author of sin and evil. Either way Adam was unjustly punished for not having a choice to sin or not, follow?

God created man out of the dust of the earth, and made and formed him after His own image and likeness, good, righteous, and holy. And Adam was endowed with Free-Will to obey or disobey God. This is how God could ratify a Covenant of Works works with Adam. But God is not deceitful or is the author of evil. God entered this Covenant with Adam because Adam did have the ability to fulfill this Covenant with God, but he chose willingly to disobey God, and bring judgement upon himself for his willful actions.

Second, God created Adam upright, good, righteous, and Holy. Adam was without sin and physically walked, talked with God in the Garden Temple. He was in the presence of God.

I'll read the rest of your post and comment later.​

 

[Mr GLee]

I will take on my time to understand what you wrote here, but I already noticed flaws in this premise. First of all, if Adam wasn't created with a free-will to choose to obey or disobey God. Then you have a serious problem here. Why? because then Adam sinned not according to his free-will but was coerced to sin. And if he was coerced to sin; having possessing a free-will, then he did not sin willingly, and was unjustly punished for it. Second, if Adam was created to sin by design meaning he was created to only sin because he doesn't have a free-will, then God is the author of sin and evil. Either way Adam was unjustly punished for not having a choice to sin or not, follow?

Hi I would offer
One of those doctrines you keep on the back burner on simmer ..

Adam, mankind. . . was created under the letter of the law "death" (thou shall not or you already dead,. . . never to rise to new spirit life, the fleshly covering of the body returns to the field of clay

Mankind believed the false prohecy of the god of this world . The lust of the eye Lust of the flesh .the two bulling blocks for false pride and added tp prophecy "neither shall you touch it" Violating the law not to add or subtract from the word of God .Mankind having another god before Christ the Lord. . Death began

They touched and did not die therefore did eat the fruit of "false prophecy." The same way he works today "touch it $$$$$$ Adding to the perfect with oral traditions of dying mankind

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world

Adam a representative of Christ failed to protect his bride Did not wash her with the water of the word doctrine that fall like rain Deuteronomy 32 :1-2)

Adam and Eve were used as a demonstration of the Father and the Son . God and his priest Jesus the Son of man, or priestess sent out to proclaim the gospel

Exodus 7:1-3King James Version7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

God gave the prohecy to Adam. it was his responsibility as a representation of Christ to gives his words (as if God's) to the prophet priest Eve, to represent the bride or church . Satin knowing woman was designed as the weaker vessel it would be easy to deceive . Giving her his false prophecy "neither shall you touch it , She was deceived and became a deceiver when she touched it and did not instantly die ,they both ate and died as one.