Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Mr GLee]

I never claimed you claimed it did. I was covering that base preemptively and proactively.

Yep.

Salvifically, the two should never be conflated. Historically speaking, the only ones who argued otherwise qualified as what we now call Pelagians and that has been considered a heretical position at least as far back as the influences on Augustine, Pelagius, Jerome, and their 4th century peers. More recently, Provisionists could be included in that group. They're the only ones who think sinfully dead and enslaved unregenerate humans can choose salvation while dead, enslaved and unregenerate.

Yes to them that venerate the flesh of dying mankind above all things writen in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) their sufferings continues in Limbo for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the older sinners. Sufferings wondering with no end in sight . Except for the Queen mother. According to Catholicism oral traditions of dying mankind . . she alone received the fullness of grace the whole cost of salvation

Using Colossian as there limbo. purgatory "key."

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Again as if his fullness of grace by the affliction Christ needed us to suffer wonder, suffer wonder even after one takes thier last breath of oxygen and returns to the dust.

We fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ . Satan not subject to salvation who has no idea who christians are. His fiery darts as a law of the fathers (oral traditions CCC)) are directed as those who have been born again, as if they were Christ

There is no defence against the living word of God (sola scriptura)

Ephesians 6 :16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

All the fiery darts of the wicked.Every oral tradition, lies of dying mankind . Like the one our brother in the lord Peter in John 21. Peter not minding his own business the denier went to town and started sayin John would never die,

Jesus said if every time he had to shield to quench the darts of the evil one (oral traditions) .We would need a bigger planet to hold the volumes upon volumes. You would think he would of learned his lesson the first time in Matthew 16, when Peter the denier rebuked God and forbid Jesus the Son of man from doing the will of the Holy Father

John 21 :22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Amen????

Peter our brother in the Lord should've minded his own business and kept his eyes on Jesus not a jealous eye John .

 

[Kermos]

Did Adam have any liberty to choose good or not good when he was created?

Adan was not created without a will by which he can make decisions .

Yes he gave the will of God in order to know God not seen . When he violated the letter of the law "death" Then he did the will of a creature seen and ate the fruit from the tree in the center the garden.

God is not served by the dying things seen the temporal .

God can just as Satan put his words in the mouth of a creature seen as a apostle (sent one)

In that way Christ uses a Ass a unclean animal ( not redeemed) redeemed by a lamb clean .(the gospel)

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

God is not served by the dying hands of mankind as a will He can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel as easily as one that does believe .
It is how the word Ass, Beast of burden is used throughout .

A picture or parable of our redeemer.

John 12:13-15King James Version13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

In that way God is not served by the dying hands of mankind in any way shape or form. Many will say they were sent as apostles. But Christ says they never Him

John 12:13-15King James Version13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

God did not create man without a will A free will is a will that is subject to his will the Faithful Creator the designer of wills

A will in bondage after the god of this world, the the father of lies

God's will rescues us from a will in bondage to sin.

Mr GLee, not one of the passages you mentioned indicates that man possesses a free-will, so you add free-will to the passages.

Josheb, the answer to your question is "no" because "not good" equals "evil", so you are essentially asking "did Adam know good and evil in order to choose good or evil", but the Word of God makes it clear that Adam did not know good and evil prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil
(the Word of God, Genesis 3:22)
​

So, Mr GLee, your writing of Adam "he gave the will of God in order to know God not seen" puts your words into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:22 -

Behold, the man has our will knowing good and evil
(the word of Mr GLee)
​

which makes that "word of Mr GLee" not be the Word of God.

Mr GLee, you continued with "A will in bondage after the god of this world, the the father of lies" which further results in where your heart places "the will of God" into the ungodly residence of "A will in bondage" to Satan the devil.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Josheb]

Josheb, the answer to your question is "no" because "not good" equals "evil".....

Adam was good. Using the logic you have posted that would mean Adam did have free will within the limitations God set at creation.

, so you are essentially asking "did Adam know good and evil in order to choose good or evil"

No, I am not and if that is what you think I am asking then go back and re-read my posts and re-read them as many times as it takes to understand them correctly.

, but the Word of God makes it clear that Adam did not know good and evil prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

​

Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil​

(the Word of God, Genesis 3:22)​

​

Genesis 3:22 was written AFTER Adam had disobeyed God. You've taking a verse said during post-disobedient conditions and applied it to pre-disobedient conditions. Doing that creates a false equivalence. The false equivalence fallacy occurs multiple time in this op and the seven pages of posts supporting the op. It is a very, very faulty op built on multiple fallacies and gross misuse of scripture.

Genesis 1:31
And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Adam was good. Adam knew God. Everything about Adam was good and there was nothing not-good in him. That is the condition of Adam existing at the beginning of creation. Adam was good. Not only was Adam good but all of creation was good. Adam was a good man living in a good world in which no sin existed. Sin did not enter the world until Genesis 3:6.

Romans 5:12, 19
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned... For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners...

You screwed up.

Prior to Genesis 3 Adam was good and sinless. Nothing sinful or evil existed in him. That ALL changed at Genesis 3:6 when Adam disobeyed God. That act of disobedience changed Adam and changed the world. That act of disobedience corrupted Adam and brought sin into the world. Basing Adam's lack of volitional liberty on sin or a knowledge of good and evil is a false cause fallacy. Knowledge of evil does not cause the eradication of the will. God know good and evil; He knows everything!!! God simply does not know good and evil experientially. He is good, righteous, holy, and perfect in all His ways.

The very first sentence of this op is incorrect. Scripture does indicate "upon both scriptural text and context" Adam had limited free will, limited freedom of will, liberty to choose as he pleased within the limitations God set at creation. When he disobeyed God more limitations occurred because he then became dead to and enslaved by sin. Prior to that he was neither dead or enslaved.

 

[makesends]

I'm including both your responses in this post since they are highly related.

Over in The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God thread, the definition of "free" is considered (the link is to post #13 which has a section about "The Bondage Of A Man's Will", but the OP has a developed definition moving to "free-will"). This is highly relevant.

You convey that this definition of free-will is insufficient:

​

Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.​

​

Salvation from the wrath of God hangs on belief in the Son whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this very belief is "the work of God" (John 6:29).

This belief is not the work of man (John 6:28-29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

Please bear with me, as I suspect you recognize this fact about belief/faith.

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Now, bringing this all together.

One cannot cause one's faith to be in Jesus Christ, so the Word is needed to cause one's belief to be in Jesus Christ.

A person thinking "I chose to believe in Jesus Christ" is the person who makes for himself or herself an idol (Exodus 20:4) followed by the person worshipping the idol (Exodus 20:5), and the idol is not Lord Jesus Christ the Word of God.

The OP's "Largely" paragraph leaves no latitude regarding the crucial point that man is completely dependent upon God for salvation.

That's the crux of the point, "free-will" results in a person choosing a false god, an idol; on the other hand, a person's "bond-will" by God results in a person acknowledging God's amazing saving Grace!

What other point about free-will matters, fastfredy0?

makesends, do you see that free-will (no Scripture) is a misnomer because an unsaved person has a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10), Biblically speaking?

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Well said. Well done.

 

[Kermos]

yes we have a freed or liberated will calling his bride the freewoman

Galatians 4 :30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
She is free to seek the daily bread of the will of God .The spiritual food the disciples knew not of .

John 4:33-34King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The same food spoken of in Philippians 2:12 The foods to both (the key) hear the will and finish it to the good pleasure of the Creator
Philippians 2: 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure..

You are engaged in the age old error of mixing apples and oranges, or, in biblical terms, you are using unjust weights to measure, and a detailed explanation follows using the very scripture which you brought up.

You quoted Galatians 4:30, so let's look at an English translation of the verse:

But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
(Galatians 4:30)
​

You emphasized "free woman" in your quotation as support for "free will" (a.k.a. "liberated will" as you tried to mask it).

Paul wrote NOT "free will woman" because the free woman's will was bound to the free woman.

The free woman is one kind of thing (apples), and the free woman's will is another kind of thing (oranges).

Since the free woman's will (oranges) requires that the free woman (apples) exist to host the free woman's will (oranges), then the free woman's will (oranges) is attached and dependent upon the free woman (apples).

The free woman's will (oranges) is bond will, not free will, but truly the free woman's slave will.

The woman is free, but her will is subject to her which results in the free woman possessing a bond-will (bound to her).

A key linguistic educational moment emerges with this free woman's bondwill because the above illustrates that the free woman never can have a free-will as exhibited both semantically and logically.

Comparison of unequal types results in an unjust scale (Proverbs 11:1, Leviticus 19:35-36)​

Mr GLee, you confusedly measure the free woman (a being a.k.a. creature / apples) using a different type of thing on the scale, specifically the the free woman's will (a facility a.k.a. attribute / oranges).

A woman can be free from captivity, yet a woman's will can never be free from captivity because a woman's will is always captive in the confines of the woman.

Regarding your other two purported "proof" texts for free-will:

• John 4:33-34 contains NOTHING about freewill, so you add free-will to the passage where it exists not!
• Philippians 2: 13 is proof that free-will does not exist for us Christians because this passage literally states that God controls the Christian's will, so your citation of this passage demonstrates your profoundly delusional free-willian philosophy!
  
  
  it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure
  (Philippians 2: 13)
  ​

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Mr GLee]

You emphasized "free woman" in your quotation as support for "free will" (a.k.a. "liberated will" as you tried to mask it).

Paul wrote NOT "free will woman" because the free woman's will was bound to the free woman.

The free woman is one kind of thing (apples), and the free woman's will is another kind of thing (oranges).

Since the free woman's will (oranges) requires that the free woman (apples) exist to host the free woman's will (oranges), then the free woman's will (oranges) is attached and dependent upon the free woman (apples).

The free woman's will (oranges) is bond will, not free will, but truly the free woman's slave will.

The woman is free, but her will is subject to her which results in the free woman possessing a bond-will (bound to her).

Hi thanks I see that a little different

The will that was in bondge to the god of this world. . . confused the disciples Christ hiding the gospel understanding from the disciples in a hpe of teching them how to walk or understand the unsensen eternal things of God.

In that parable when they thought Jesus needed food necessary to maintain these bodies of death it showing they had no understanding of the parable.

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. . . . . . . . . . . . both to will and finish .

Jesus experienced the freeing power will of the Father. Jesus did His will with delight others like Jonas murmured as he kicked against the pricks or thorns (The law of God) and wanted to die knowing he is a god of mercy and grace . the mark of integrity according to His labor of love.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:


Christ working in the Son of man Jesus declared through His prophet Jesus the kind of food of the unseen eternal Holy Father "the tree of eternal life" in the center of the garden. Christ the one seed .The Father freed the Son of man jesus empowering him to do the created will. . not the will of the dying creation.


In the gared. . .Thou shall surely not die....... Cut off its beautiful feet as a fasle messenger, crushed its head bruised the heel of the Son of man Jesus. the father demonstrating three days and nights his love for His ons of God, Christians.

What we will be is not revealed . When we shed these bodies of death it will a glorious surprise. In that we live joyfully for Christ all die martyred it just when do we take our last breath?

In that way it would seem one way or another he will show dying mankind he in not served by dying hands of mankind . Death of these bodies the appointment all will keep

The meat of the word the fruit (Almond ?) in the center of the garden The daily bread, or hidden manna spoken of in Revelation 2:17

it is how the two words sre use to make one thought ( to will and do.) the freeing Holy Spirit.

Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will (empowered) come forth and serve them.

The freeing will. In that way we are not harden our hearts if we hear his voice then there will be no gospel eternal rest of the Father he gives us his new creation strength to do both. Hear and obey

 

[Rufus]

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?​

Unfortunately, the thread does not define "free will" so the thread will go off on all sorts of tangents.

"Free Will" is that which can do and does, in relation to God and others, whatever it pleases, uninhibited by any law or any authority.

It is logically impossible for a creature (created being) to "program" his own will. Thus, the “will” is never a cause; it is the effect as all created things are the effect of the Almighty First Cause. So Adam's propensity to do "X" or "Y" was programmed so to speak by his Creator as a computer runs per the specifications of a programmer.

Again, "Free Will" is logically impossible; it is a circular answer. If there is not a determining cause for the thought process, making a choice would be impossible. To be self-determined, one must be eternal and therefore uncaused; otherwise, the determinative cause cannot be self-determined, without influence of past experience, state of mind or knowledge. Freewill contradicts this; it says you can reach up into the eternal realm and grab self-determination (uninfluenced); but this is not possible. (human author unknown)

back to chewing my

"The determining cause for the thought process[es]" in man is the same as our Creator's, which is our essence or nature. What's in a man's heart or God's heart drives or moves the volition, e.g. motives, intentions, desires, etc. Therefore, both God and man are free moral agents, since their choices are not contingent on external forces, whether these be animate or inanimate. Our choices, like the Creator's are self-contained and independent.

 

[fastfredy0]

"The determining cause for the thought process[es]" in man is the same as our Creator's

God is eternal and therefore UNcaused and therefore your statement cannot be true.

What's in a man's heart or God's heart drives or moves the volition, e.g. motives, intentions, desires, etc.

Agreed

What's in a man's heart or God's heart drives or moves the volition, e.g. motives, intentions, desires, etc. Therefore, both God and man are free moral agents, since their choices are not contingent on external forces, whether these be animate or inanimate.

You have not validated your conclusion as you have yet to state the CAUSE of what is in man heart. You have to give proof that man's will is uncaused which you did not do. You also have not defined "free agent".
Man is a "free agent" if you mean he can do what he desires most. But man is NOT a free agent if you define "free agent" as one that makes decisions that are not influenced by external forces. One does not pick his/her sex, their parents, their health, the sources of their knowledge, etc. etc.

Our choices, like the Creator's are self-contained and independent.

John 1:12-13 contradicts this statement.

 

[Rufus]

God is eternal and therefore UNcaused and therefore your statement cannot be true.


Agreed

How can you agree and not agree with the exact same premise at the same time and in the same sense? Just because God is eternal does not mean that his free moral agency is not governed by his nature (essence or heart). Jn 3:16 is an excellent proof text of this fact. "God so loved the world that he gave....". His choice to sacrifice his own Son for the world was motivated by his love. That is what moved him to make that choice. He didn't make that choice in some kind of vacuum.

You have not validated your conclusion as you have yet to state the CAUSE of what is in man heart. You have to give proof that man's will is uncaused which you did not do. You also have not defined "free agent".
Man is a "free agent" if you mean he can do what he desires most. But man is NOT a free agent if you define "free agent" as one that makes decisions that are not influenced by external forces. One does not pick his/her sex, their parents, their health, the sources of their knowledge, etc. etc.

I have defined "free" on another similar thread. By "free" I do not mean "free to"; rather I mean "free from". If "free to" is the criteria then even God Almighty himself cannot be a free moral agent, since there are things God cannot do, e.g. cannot lie, cannot deny himself, cannot sin. Nor can God do anything absurd that would violate his laws of logic, such as an create an immovable object that would resist an irresistible force. Since scripture teaches that God does all things by the counsel of his own will, he does whatsoever pleases him both in heaven and here on earth, then God's will is not contingent on any thing or person outside of Him. He is free from all external constraints and compulsions. And so are all his moral agents -- men and angels alike.

As far as the sons of men go, Jesus taught that everything proceeds from our hearts -- both good and evil. Therefore, our will is not free to operate apart from our other faculties within such as mind, emotions and conscience. Nor is God's.

John 1:12-13 contradicts this statement.

No, it does not, since no mere mortal has the innate power to raise himself from the dead (spiritual death). Spiritual rebirth logically presupposes spiritual death. So, again, this passage proves my point that free moral agency doesn't have anything with "freedom to" but everything to do with "freedom from".

 

[fastfredy0]

How can you agree and not agree with the exact same premise at the same time and in the same sense?

You misread my answer.
I disagree when you say God is: ""The determining cause for the thought process[es]" in man is the same as our Creator's" ... .GOD IS UNCAUSED
I agree when you say: "What's in a man's heart or God's heart drives or moves the volition, e.g. motives, intentions, desires, etc." .... Man's heart drives his volition (note the "OR" in the statement)

Just because God is eternal does not mean that his free moral agency is not governed by his nature

Oh, I agree the God has Free Moral Agency .... but reread your statement ... you said:

"The determining cause for the thought process[es]" in man is the same as our Creator's

To which I responded that God is UNCAUSED and therefore your statement is FALSE. As proof of God being UNCAUSED is pointed out the He is eternal and thus UNCAUSED.

His choice to sacrifice his own Son for the world was motivated by his love. That is what moved him to make that choice. He didn't make that choice in some kind of vacuum.

All God's choices were made in a vacuum. Consider:
Premise 1: At one time only God existed; He was in a vacuum as you put it.
Premise 2: God does not change and He is all knowing
Therefore: God determined all things in a vacuum (when there was only Him)

God's will is not contingent on any thing or person outside of Him. He is free from all external constraints and compulsions. And so are all his moral agents -- men and angels alike.

I agree that God is "free from all external constraints. But you have no reason to conflate the attributes of God upon men. Just because God is omniscient does mean man is.
It is simple to show man has moral constraints.
Premise 1: I was born in 1955
Premise 2: Hitler died in 1945
Therefore: I am constrained from the moral action of murdering Hitler. Therefore you statement is false. Man is not like God in that his will is not free of external constraints.

As far as the sons of men go, Jesus taught that everything proceeds from our hearts -- both good and evil. Therefore, our will is not free to operate apart from our other faculties within such as mind, emotions and conscience. Nor is God's.

Agreed. Man's will is given him (caused) which is to say it is not free where 'free' means not externally influenced. God's will is uncaused and does not change and therefore free from external influence.

my point that free moral agency doesn't have anything with "freedom to" but everything to do with "freedom from".

It's best when defining a term to say what it means and not what it does not mean.
I think you define Free Will as the ability to make choices that are uninfluenced by external entities.

Aside: I don't think we are getting anywhere. We have a communication problem. We can blame me.

 

[Mr GLee]

God is eternal and therefore UNcaused and therefore your statement cannot be true.

He is the causeand effect . He designed man's will according to His own
Called the law of faith ."let there be" and the testimony was "God alone good"


The just one the letter of the law ("death") and the testimony (justifier) many lively sons of God .

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[Mr GLee]

I think you define Free Will as the ability to make choices that are uninfluenced by external entities.

Who influenced the Son of man,Jesus ?

John 4:33-35King James Versio Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.(of faith)

 

[Rufus]

You misread my answer.
I disagree when you say God is: ""The determining cause for the thought process[es]" in man is the same as our Creator's" ... .GOD IS UNCAUSED
I agree when you say: "What's in a man's heart or God's heart drives or moves the volition, e.g. motives, intentions, desires, etc." .... Man's heart drives his volition (note the "OR" in the statement)



Oh, I agree the God has Free Moral Agency .... but reread your statement ... you said:

To which I responded that God is UNCAUSED and therefore your statement is FALSE. As proof of God being UNCAUSED is pointed out the He is eternal and thus UNCAUSED.


All God's choices were made in a vacuum. Consider:
Premise 1: At one time only God existed; He was in a vacuum as you put it.
Premise 2: God does not change and He is all knowing
Therefore: God determined all things in a vacuum (when there was only Him)


I agree that God is "free from all external constraints. But you have no reason to conflate the attributes of God upon men. Just because God is omniscient does mean man is.
It is simple to show man has moral constraints.
Premise 1: I was born in 1955
Premise 2: Hitler died in 1945
Therefore: I am constrained from the moral action of murdering Hitler. Therefore you statement is false. Man is not like God in that his will is not free of external constraints.


Agreed. Man's will is given him (caused) which is to say it is not free where 'free' means not externally influenced. God's will is uncaused and does not change and therefore free from external influence.


It's best when defining a term to say what it means and not what it does not mean.
I think you define Free Will as the ability to make choices that are uninfluenced by external entities.

Aside: I don't think we are getting anywhere. We have a communication problem. We can blame me.

The fact that God is eternal (uncased) does not mean he didn't create man in his image and likeness. and that what moves or causes his choices is not the same things that move and cause our choices. What moved God to save the world through the sacrifice of his only begotten Son was love (Jn 3:16). Conversely, what moved the antediluvian world to be violent to each other was that the thoughts and intentions of their heart were evil continually. In short, what moral, rational being ARE in their essence determines their choices.

 

[Mr GLee]

The fact that God is eternal (uncased) does not mean he didn't create man in his image and likeness. and that what moves or causes his choices is not the same things that move and cause our choices. What moved God to save the world through the sacrifice of his only begotten Son was love (Jn 3:16). Conversely, what moved the antediluvian world to be violent to each other was that the thoughts and intentions of their heart were evil continually. In short, what moral, rational being ARE in their essence determines their choices.

I would offer. . .a little differently.

Remember eternal God ,King of kings is of one mind and always does whatsoever his own soul desires . No democracy in the government of Christ the Holy Spirit of God .

You could say no help needed from the peanut gallery. As if eternal God was served by the dying hands as a will of man. . in any way shape or form. God is not a man. He has no needs but continually in Christ satisfies all of our Christian needs

.You could say. With the water of the word, the gospel of our salvation. He makes our old hearts soft giving us a new heart and eternal spirit yoked with hs labor of love

I would think we should ask oneself. Who makes our own heart soft? We know who made the Son of man Jesus heart soft with the washing and renewing of the living abiding word. He delighted to do the will of the faithful Creator or Holy Father..

Job 23: 8-16 Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:


He moved dying mankind . Dying mankind does not move him. . no one can turn eternal God . His labor of love or called work of His faith (faithfulness) alone makes our hearts soft, according to his work of faith. (His belief or understanding.)

"Let there be" and his labor of love was "God alone good"

The law of his creative powerful faith " let there be" and there is "a new creature " The testimony of the written law

 

[Kermos]

Not Paul writing rather the finger of God The apostles are a nothing they are non-venerable.



Not purported ( appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so) But absolutely true . Adam was under the letter of the law "death" (thou shall not or you are dead) The earthen body returns to dust and the Holy Spirit of the law returns to the Holy Father who gave it under the letter temporal (thou shall not)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 7:6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


From my experience many disregard the letter of the law ( the Bible) To them is not regarded as the instrument of death called the second death the death of death tossed into the fiery judgement .

The letter it will not rise up and condemn through corruption, dying, a entire creation .The old thing of this world will not be remembered or ever come to mind

One appointment die once. No digging up the dead

The Cadaver Synod: Putting a Dead Pope on Trial​

Some teach God will resurrect the dead and give them a retrial (double jeopardy).

No free-will in your proof text of Ecclesiastes 12:7, so you add free-will to Ecclesiastes 12:7.

No free-will in your proof text of Romans 7:6, so you add free-will to Romans 7:6.

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Mr GLee]

No free-will in your proof text of Ecclesiastes 12:7, so you add free-will to Ecclesiastes 12:7.

No free-will in your proof text of Romans 7:6, so you add free-will to Romans 7:6.

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Again Adam rejected free will. . the will he was created with .Free will empowered by the Holy Father so he could do the will of the creature seen ...
Adam disobeyed the letter of the law (death) and gave it over to the will of the father of lies a murderer from the beginning with Abel the apostle, sent messenger.

When he died his earthen body of death return to the dust and the temporal Spirit of life returned to that father who gave in under the temporal letter of the law Thou shalt not or you're dead never to rise to new Holy Spirit life .


Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[donadams]

So writes Josheb, the one who fails to answer the succinct question in the title of this thread, which is:

​

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?​

​

Free-willians write things like "God Himself implicitly stated Adam was good", yet such free-willians must nullify in their hearts the very Word of God "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Imply that God is the source of the goodness that is reflected in his creation!

We still are made in the image and likeness of God (intellect & will)
Self determination and free will and can reject Christ and cast off the yoke of our baptism or by deadly sin be separated from God and Gis grace and to die unrepentant in this state means eternal damnation!

There can be no heavenly reward or hell punishment with “free will”!

No righteousness or iniquity without “free will”!

Dogma revealed truth taught by the apostolic church. Matt 28:19

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

Thanks

 

[CrowCross]

There can be no heavenly reward or hell punishment with “free will”!

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Condemned is mankind's default position....free-will or not.

 

[donadams]

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Condemned is mankind's default position....free-will or not.

You must choose to believe him and all he revealed and his church teaches abiding in him and enduring to the end!

They choose volition freely to be infidels

 

[donadams]

I

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Condemned is mankind's default position....free-will or not.

If you believe in him and commit a deadly sin are you condemned?