Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Ghada]

So, can you show how this is not God planning that there be evil?

God was not thinking of any evil in creation, much less planning on it.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

By Scripture we see it is impossible for the pure heart of charity, to be thinking any evil to come by creation, but rather thinks and creates all things good.

The true God that creates all things good, does not plan any evil in creation, nor plan evil for His creatures, nor plan His creatures to do evil, nor does any evil come into His heart and mind when creating all things for His good pleasure.

Only evil thinkers plan on evil to come:

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1 Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings...

The jealous spouse plans on adultery, but the faithful spouse thinks nothing of adultery when marrying. The wicked parent plans on wickedness from their children, but the good parent only plans on the good when born.

How much more so then, does the good God and Father plan only good, and not evil, in His creation:

Luke 11:11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Who is the Christ and God that preplans and intends all men to do evil and die?

Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Any Christ predetermining, planning, purposing, and intending men to do evil in his creation, has no charity of heart nor purity of mind, but is as cruel as the grave that he intends men to die in by doing evil.

 

[Mr GLee]

True. When any man sins against God's will, he acts contrary to God's purpose and pleasure of creating all men in His image.

It's only the devil's intent and pleasure for man to sin against our good Creator.





Gen 22:12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;



True. Nother angels and men watch what men do, but only God watches what all men do, as well as the hearts.

Thanks

Angels as men?

 

[Mr GLee]

The lie is that the Father did the bruising of the Son on the cross.

Gen 3:15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The devil bruised the Son, not the Father. The devil intended his own wicked children to do the work, not the Father.

God does not move the unrighteous to kill the righteous.

Thanks I would offer.

The doctrine of the brised heel

Three days and nights. . . three different demonstration for three different purposes .It would seem many missed the opportunity to look at the three demonstrations as prophecy and focus on the things seen a bloody husband . Mankind loves to see the blood. (walk by sight) Giving the illusion it was a Satan inspired mop that caused the suffering.(work of salvation ) Hoping the sign to the unbeliever would draw them to the word .

The last sign given to wonder after compared to Jonah three days and nights .No more sign were given to wonder after

Today we has the perfect .No need to wonder .

The first demonstration of the lamb slain from the foundation to fulfil the two prophecies of the bruising of the heel a sign to the believer that trust prophecy. it began in the Garden of Gethsemane .The Son of man Jesus exceeding sorrow unto death .In agony he looked for help in prayer with the other disciples .Three times the Father put then to sleep to verify the work of two .The Father and Son

Mathew 23:36-46 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Then they moved on to the hill of Skull the bloody demonstration. and last the Tomb demonstration

The Father bruised the heel of the Son of man Jesus

Two seeds one temporal the other eternal (Christ)

Genisis15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isaiah 53:5- 12 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Matthew 12:39-41 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

God is not a man.

 

[Ghada]

No change was made, Christ left his heart of stone (dead) by not watering it with the water of the word the gospel

God did not soften the Pharaohs hard heart. . . dead in trespasses and sin

Good analysis.

God hardens the hearts of them that will not submit to His will. God does not create hard hearts, but like the sun hardens the clay, or melts the butter.

God creates all hearts pure and good, and man has power to make the heart into clay, and hardens the heart by lust against the will of God.

We have that work of Christ making our hard heart soften in these bodies of death. But would never claim the power of faith is of own self

Good point again.

Eph{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

The gift unto salvation, is the righteous faith of Jesus Christ toward God, not any faith from ourselves that is made sinful by lust against God.

If we are preaching the faith from ourselves as sinners, then we are preaching ourselves for Christ, and not Jesus Christ Himself.

2 Cor {4:5} For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

 

[Ghada]

Thanks

Angels as men?

Men are lower than angels only by being made with flesh on earth, rather than being made spirits in heaven. But both are equal in creation as spiritual beings with freewill to keep our hearts pure, or to corrupt our hearts with lust.

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

Eze 28:15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lucifer was first creature to corrupt his own heart by lust, and rebel against God in heaven. His serpent tempted man in the garden with the same lust against God, and the man recieved the iniquity into his own heart, to likewise rebel against God on earth.

Both angels and men are created sons of God, being made spiritual beings with hearts to choose good or evil. And as with the angels, so with the souls of men, God creates all things good.

However, angels and men have power of freewill to corrupt God's creation with lust for sin. A third of the angels have sinned in heaven, and all men have sinned on earth, save one.

The same condemnation awaits all angels that have sinned, and all men that sin unto death.

Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Mr GLee]

Men are lower than angels only by being made with flesh on earth, rather than being made spirits in heaven. But both are equal in creation as spiritual beings with freewill to keep our hearts pure, or to corrupt our hearts with lust.

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

Eze 28:15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lucifer was first creature to corrupt his own heart by lust, and rebel against God in heaven. His serpent tempted man in the garden with the same lust against God, and the man recieved the iniquity into his own heart, to likewise rebel against God on earth.

Both angels and men are created sons of God, being made spiritual beings with hearts to choose good or evil. And as with the angels, so with the souls of men, God creates all things good.

However, angels and men have power of freewill to corrupt God's creation with lust for sin. A third of the angels have sinned in heaven, and all men have sinned on earth, save one.

The same condemnation awaits all angels that have sinned, and all men that sin unto death.

Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Lucifer a spirit of Christ that was to protect the creation glory from false pride.

The Greek word Angelus, its English equivalent is messenger. It is used in respect to a apostle sent messenger .How beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel . Abel the first mentioned apostle martyred

I am my wife's favorite apostle .She sends me out on adventure to the supermarket with a writen list not to add to or subtract .Upon completing the mission I receive the reward of a apostle . Two home made peanut butter cookies and a glass of milk

Angel a fake word sounds the same but provides a different understand which is needed to develop .The idea of a invisible creation of Patron saints disembodied workers with a familiar spirit . 3,511 and adding his and hers gods in the likeness of dying mankind .

No secret creation of angels.

Christ in us not a legion of what some call angels.

 

[Ghada]

one thing is noticeable missing in the attempt to "explain" each of your sides

If I'm not clear enough, then you can choose any point and ask to clarify. I'd be glad to. It's good discipline to always try to make things clearer.

and the endeavor to try to tie Adam's sin to that of the men that crucified Jesus....

Adam did not curcify Jesus on a cross. However, the common sin between all sinners, is that any and all men that sin, are judged responsible for the Son's death.

Rev 13:8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Heb 6:5If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Lamb was first slain to man, when the man sinned against Him in the garden. The Son is now crucified to men, when any man sins against Him on earth.

If man had not sinned, then Jesus Christ coming in the flesh would have been recieved gladly, rather than rejected and unlawfully slain.

Not only the wicked hands that nailed Him to a cross are guilty of His death, but all men that have sinned and done wickedly against His life, are likewise made guilty of shedding the innocent blood of the Son of God.

Rev 1:7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

or to explain it away NO ONE has yet to talk on the point of why, exactly, Jesus came to earth in the first place.

He comes to dwell with men on earth. He first came to walk with Adam in the garden, until Adam transgressed. He also came to walk with Enoch, until He took him away.

Mat 1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He came to earth in the flesh to dwell with man, and save His people from their sins.

Because man sinned and rejected and slew Him, He will come again in resurrected body to judge the earth, and dwell with man as King over all nations. He will then dwell with man forever on the new earth in His own city New Jerusalem.

Why He comes, is to dwell with men. Why and how it will takes so long, including a new earth to do so, is because man sins against Him.

He was, after all, "OUR" sacrifice provided by the Heavenly Father,

Where does Scripture say the Lamb of God was our sacrifice? The only sacrifice made of Him by man, was for wicked men to keep their own rule over the nation of the Jews.

Jhn 11:48If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

They certainly didn't sacrifice Him unto God, but rather condemned Him as a blasphemer against God.

Gen 22:8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:

God provided Himself a sacrifice for sins of the people. He was not the Jews' sacrifice made to God (which would have been unlawful human sacrifice). He was His own sacrifice made unto God, by submitting to their wicked hands according to the will of the Father.

The only sacrifices the Lord ever provided for His people to make, was that of bulls and goats.

without who none of us would have had any hope.

Not without His resurrection from the dead. Otherwise, His blood would continue to cry from the earth louder against all men, than that of righteous Abel against Cain.

Adam was not made evil. Lucifer was not made evil. And I don't believe Judas was either.

True, true, and true. No man is made evil by Jesus Christ, but created in His own image.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

They were, as we all were given "free will" and the problem that came with that was called temptation

Temptation is not the problem. Lust is the problem when tempted.

The problem that came into the world was concieving lust into one's own heart, whereby angels and men are tempted to do evil against God.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Adam was tempted by His own lust, that He conceived in the garden. Only Eve was decieved by the serpent.

Freewill given to angels and men by creation is the power to do good or evil, with blessing or cursing.

 

[Ghada]

Fit the pharaoh of Exodus, with God hardening his heart, more then once, to allow the Exodus

God's will was to let His people go. Pharoah resisted God's will, until God got His way anyway.

Power to resist God's will in our own lives, is not power to stop the will of God on earth, nor to stop His judgment by our works.

2 Cor 6:2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)... Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.

Pharoah hardened his own heart against the will of the Lord, until his heart broke with the death of his own firstborn son.

Also, where would you fit Judas into things.

Dittoes. Judas hardened his own heart, until he hung himself. Peter repented.

Was it known that he would betray Jesus, but was picked anyway to fulfill things or

He was foreknown, not predetermined. He was not chosen by Jesus knowing he would betray Him. He chose all His apostles named by God during prayer at night.

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

This was after they were chosen, and His judgment of how they followed Him.

Jhn 13:27And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Jesus knew what was in Judas' heart by observation, and by witness of the Spirit.

possibly with a little prodding from above?

The prodding Jesus gave to Judas was rebuking him for rebuking Mary anointing His hair.

Righteous rebuke does not cause men to do evil, but only causes evil men to harden their hearts to do more evil.

I am firmly in the free will camp, but throughout the bible it seems as if a person, or people have been chosen to fulfill those prophesies.

Not before they were created in the womb.

The only man chosen to fulfill the will of God, before coming into the world, was the Word made flesh.

After Adam sinned, He was chosen with God to be the Lamb to come in the flesh, and free His people from their sins.

God can only trust Himself to do on earth as chosen, before being made flesh. All created men can only be chosen after coming into the world, both in the womb and by works.

 

[Ghada]

Where did the idea that God predetermines men do evil come from?

Most call it Calvin's teaching, but that's only because he made it popular for the first time in Christian religion.

Like most Christian heresies, they were put forth by false apostles and teachers in the beginning of Jesus' church on earth. Some of them come from Jewish heresies long before.

The lie of predeterminism, where man has no freewill, and can only do what God preplanned them to do in life, is rebuked by Christ in Romans 9.

Rom 9:19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

This foolish question can only be asked by a predeterminist, that says no man can resist the will of God. Scripture is full of people resisting God's will, such as the example given of Pharoah. And unrepentant sinners resist His will everyday for them to repent.

The reason why anyone would teach man has no freewill from God, is seen in the accusation against God for finding fault with any of His creatures.

Afterall, according to predeterminists no man can resist God's will, therefore every creature is only doing God's will as created. Why then does God yet find fault with any creature for doing so...

It's the theologically burdensome way of saying, "Hey, it's not my fault God made me this way!"

Dead are raised as new creature, not reconditioned

This is excellent, if you mean Jesus Christ creates whole newborn creatures with pure hearts and lives of God. He does not recondition sinners into living better than before, like turning over old leaves to show a better side.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

He saves us from our sins. He does not only save us from sinning as much as before.

 

[Ghada]

The lamb of God slain from the foundation . First "let there be" good things first .

The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, is when Adam transgressed and slew the Lord unto Himself. From that time, all men that sinned likewise slew the Lamb unto themselves.

The Lamb slain in the world, is when transgressors slew Him on a cross.

From that time, He is crucified afresh to any man still transgressing against Him after His resurrection.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, is when Adam transgressed and slew the Lord unto Himself. From that time, all men that sinned likewise slew the Lamb unto themselves.

The Lamb slain in the world, is when transgressors slew Him on a cross.

From that time, He is crucified afresh to any man still transgressing against Him after His resurrection.

The lamb of God slain a finished work. It is a metaphor used in parables for the mercy mixed with grace of Christ .

By grace from the foundation God became the . . "Let there be" savoir .

Not served by human hands in any way shape or from.

The bloody demonstration to all the nations of the world 2000 years ago.

Why would you attribute the work of Christ to Adam as if he slew the lamb ?

 

[Mr GLee]

Most call it Calvin's teaching, but that's only because he made it popular for the first time in Christian religion.

Like most Christian heresies, they were put forth by false apostles and teachers in the beginning of Jesus' church on earth. Some of them come from Jewish heresies long before.

The lie of predeterminism, where man has no freewill, and can only do what God preplanned them to do in life, is rebuked by Christ in Romans 9.

Rom 9:19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

This foolish question can only be asked by a predeterminist, that says no man can resist the will of God. Scripture is full of people resisting God's will, such as the example given of Pharoah. And unrepentant sinners resist His will everyday for them to repent.

The reason why anyone would teach man has no freewill from God, is seen in the accusation against God for finding fault with any of His creatures.

Afterall, according to predeterminists no man can resist God's will, therefore every creature is only doing God's will as created. Why then does God yet find fault with any creature for doing so...

It's the theologically burdensome way of saying, "Hey, it's not my fault God made me this way!"

I would suggest beginning with the word apostle. Changing the meaning of "one word" violates the law of interpretation (Deuteronomy 4:2)

Sent one. . . apostle a naval term changed into highly venerable dying mankind.

Many make it about those with beautiful feet who are moved from Christ within to plant the incorruptible seed and others water it with the water of the word. Adding new meaning to sent messengers(apostle') UPS, Pony Express , Uber, Amazon etc. . From one sent on errand to highly venerable ones that lord it over the faith or understanding of the pew warmers the non-venerable.

They even deny the first apostles /martyr Abel . The second born used to represent a person must be born again doctrine .God replace him with another second born Enos. Then and not before the example, , born again men could call.

Genesis 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 3: 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Attributing the the power of Christ the sender as it is written with the beautiful feet (apostles). Blasphemy.

Christ does not share his power of understanding with dying mankind under the appointment of dying once

We are warned of those (anti-christs) who say we do need a apostle dying mankind to teach us .False apostles bring the oral traditons of dying mankind as false prophecy

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Remember not only does he teach us daily guiding and comforting .but also brings to our memory the previous things and each other

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Rella]

God's will was to let His people go. Pharoah resisted God's will, until God got His way anyway.

Power to resist God's will in our own lives, is not power to stop the will of God on earth, nor to stop His judgment by our works.

2 Cor 6:2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)... Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.

Pharoah hardened his own heart against the will of the Lord, until his heart broke with the death of his own firstborn son.

THIS IS what I was referring to

Exodus 7:3-4
3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.​

4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

It could be that, as a result of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart even further, allowing for the last few plagues and bringing God’s full glory into view (Exodus 9:12; 10:20, 27).

Dittoes. Judas hardened his own heart, until he hung himself. Peter repented.



He was foreknown, not predetermined. He was not chosen by Jesus knowing he would betray Him. He chose all His apostles named by God during prayer at night.

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

This was after they were chosen, and His judgment of how they followed Him.

Jhn 13:27And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Jesus knew what was in Judas' heart by observation, and by witness of the Spirit.




The prodding Jesus gave to Judas was rebuking him for rebuking Mary anointing His hair.

Righteous rebuke does not cause men to do evil, but only causes evil men to harden their hearts to do more evil.


Not before they were created in the womb.

The only man chosen to fulfill the will of God, before coming into the world, was the Word made flesh.

After Adam sinned, He was chosen with God to be the Lamb to come in the flesh, and free His people from their sins.

God can only trust Himself to do on earth as chosen, before being made flesh. All created men can only be chosen after coming into the world, both in the womb and by works.

 

[makesends]

Because the plan was ordained and prophesied only after man sinned, not before.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The fact it was prophesied after does not mean it was not ordained before, though that question is secondary. It was prophesied, and that shows God ordained it. God is not a mere oracle.

Your logic is way off. Seriously. Your need to make God a mere reactive power to circumstances beyond his control, as I have shown you before, renders him less than omnipotent, less that omniscient, less than first cause, less than God.

 

[JIM]

The fact it was prophesied after does not mean it was not ordained before, though that question is secondary. It was prophesied, and that shows God ordained it. God is not a mere oracle.

Your logic is way off. Seriously. Your need to make God a mere reactive power to circumstances beyond his control, as I have shown you before, renders him less than omnipotent, less that omniscient, less than first cause, less than God.

That is such an affront to God. God prophesied of terrible evils. That cannot mean that He ordained those terrible evils.

God is not a mere reactive power. But He certainly does react in many circumstances even though He foreknows both the circumstances and the reaction. Foreknowing does not nullify the reaction.

 

[makesends]

That is such an affront to God. God prophesied of terrible evils. That cannot mean that He ordained those terrible evils.

God is not a mere reactive power. But He certainly does react in many circumstances even though He foreknows both the circumstances and the reaction. Foreknowing does not nullify the reaction.

SMH

Of course he reacts, and exactly as he has said he will. Where does that deny ordaining all things, whatsoever comes to pass?

Why do you place such value on this life that you can't see his using evil for the producing of the quality of the life to come? He made us for THAT life, and this life is only what it took for THAT life to be. He is preparing US.

It is not only illogical, but shortsighted to think that there is anything haphazard to what is happening.

 

[JIM]

SMH

Of course he reacts, and exactly as he has said he will. Where does that deny ordaining all things, whatsoever comes to pass?

Why do you insist on making God the author and perfecter of evil? That is an affront to God. The very indignity of such a declaration should be obvious.

Why do you place such value on this life that you can't see his using evil for the producing of the quality of the life to come? He made us for THAT life, and this life is only what it took for THAT life to be. He is preparing US.

God is testing us. God is looking to populate His kingdom with those who would love Him, without hard evidence of who or what He is or even if He is. That is the purpose of faith. It is believing in something or someone when there is not any experiential proof. There could be no doubt that God could, if He chose to do so, present us with absolute proof of everything that He has presented in His word. But He didn't. That would have forced everyone to bow down to him, whether they loved Him or hated Him.

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

It is not only illogical, but shortsighted to think that there is anything haphazard to what is happening.

What is illogical and shortsighted is to think that God is the cause of all that is bad, awful, abominable, atrocious, unacceptable in this world.

 

[Arial]

Why do you insist on making God the author and perfecter of evil? That is an affront to God. The very indignity of such a declaration should be obvious.

You have been warned about saying things like this. There is no excuse for it, as you have been shown just how God ordaining all things does not make him the author and perfecter of evil. And tell me, how a better view of God is obtained by saying that he knows what evil thing will come to pass, has the power to stop it, the love to stop it, the mercy to stop it, the grace to stop it, the justice to stop it, even a passive will to stop it, but doesn't, lest he violate that precious free will of man? That would be a God who can not be trusted and cannot be depended on, because of all the contingencies of fickle, sinful, humans.

It is impossible for you to understand how the teachings of Reformed theology remove all possibility of God being the "author and perfecter of evil", even though he ordains all things, because you deny the very foundational work of the apostles, and the self revelation of God, and the relationship of humanity as creatures to God. And also removes the logical conclusion of your beliefs as stated above, that produce an unreliable God subject to the will of man. RT does this by being consistent and systematic and follow through from beginning to end. (Follow through means that when you start at the beginning point---always who God is----and work your way through always keeping everything consistent with the first premise as stated, and the content of his word, the end result will be such and such. There is none of that in any "free will", human choice, doctrine. They never go as far as what the conclusion would be saying about God.

 

[JIM]

You have been warned about saying things like this. There is no excuse for it, as you have been shown just how God ordaining all things does not make him the author and perfecter of evil.

To ordain is to arrange, appoint, prescribe, give order. For God to ordain evil is to arrange, appoint, prescribe, give order for evil. I think that passes for being the author and perfecter of evil But of course He is not. And He does not and cannot ordain evil. His holiness will not allow for that. Show us one passage in the Bible where it says that God ordains evil.

Perhaps I will come back later and address the rest of that nonsense.

 

[Mr GLee]

Men are lower than angels only by being made with flesh on earth, rather than being made spirits in heaven. But both are equal in creation as spiritual beings with freewill to keep our hearts pure, or to corrupt our hearts with lust.

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

Eze 28:15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Hi thanks

No angels Not the most popular But it does seem to work out to give glory to God not to some invisible creation

I would offer the word angel is fake word needed to set up a false govervemnt of dying mankind that venerate puff up one another.

Sounds the same as Angelous the Greek . which means messenger with no other meaning added. . like how beautiful are the feet of the apostles .The old testament same way the invention of a invisible creation to be used as what some today call patron saints his and hers gods Hebrew Shalach messenger not sounding like angel is translated angel .

God sends his prophets as messenger even today many on this board . Remember it is Christ our one God that works in us with us .Emanuel (Two walking as one) not legion of gods in the likeness of men

It would be quite difficult to entertain a invisible stranger. Simply a prophet messenger.

The stranger might have a gift of a word for you or you for him. Stranger a word used to identify another believer

Hebrews 13:2-3 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels (messenger) unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

1 Peter 1:1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1 Peter 2:11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangersand pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

3 John 1:5Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;