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Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy

  • "And shall go out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea".
As stated, Satan will once again go forth to deceive the nations from the four quarters of the earth. And note, though Some people would like you to believe that Gog and Magog here represent Russia, or some other nation, this is an untenable position once it is carefully compared with the Bible. And you have to go no further than this verse itself. It tells us clearly who Gog and Magog here represent. It says they are "The nations which are in the four quarters of the earth". It doesn't say Russia, or Libya, or any other nation. The Biblical definition is that, it is The nations or gentiles from the four quarters of the earth. In other words, all the peoples of the world.
Wrong. The "four quarters" was not going to be the entire world. The "four quarters of the earth" were the four sections of the geographical nation of Israel, as mentioned in Ezekiel 6:1-3. "...thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel: An end, the end has come upon the four corners of the land. Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations." This was the set of judgments which the Babylonian empire was then bringing upon the nation of Israel and Jerusalem back in those days. Ezekiel was prophesying as the series of subsequent deportations of ethnic Israelites were already in progress.

The Gog / Magog battle took place in the land of Israel back in the first century in AD 69. It was a civil war conflict, with Israelites battling fellow Israelites (as Ezekiel 38:21 had prophesied - "...every man's sword shall be against his brother".) The Zealot factions coming from their home turf in "Galilee of the Gentiles" were responsible for this. The main Zealot leader who rose to prominence had collected soldiers in his army coming from other various nations which were all represented among Gog the chief prince's army, as listed in Ezekiel 38:5 (Persians, Ethiopians, Libyans, Gomer, and Togarmah).

Gog came from "his place out of the north parts" of the land of Israel - namely, the region of "Galilee of the Gentiles" in the north quarter of the land of Israel.

This battle of Gog was an ancient battle, fulfilled long, long ago with swords, bucklers, shields and helmets, horses and horsemen, bows and arrows, hand-staves and spears - weapons which were used for fuel during those seven years following the battle back in AD 69.
 
Wrong. The "four quarters" was not going to be the entire world. The "four quarters of the earth" were the four sections of the geographical nation of Israel, as mentioned in Ezekiel 6:1-3. "...thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel: An end, the end has come upon the four corners of the land. Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations." This was the set of judgments which the Babylonian empire was then bringing upon the nation of Israel and Jerusalem back in those days. Ezekiel was prophesying as the series of subsequent deportations of ethnic Israelites were already in progress.

The Gog / Magog battle took place in the land of Israel back in the first century in AD 69. It was a civil war conflict, with Israelites battling fellow Israelites (as Ezekiel 38:21 had prophesied - "...every man's sword shall be against his brother".) The Zealot factions coming from their home turf in "Galilee of the Gentiles" were responsible for this. The main Zealot leader who rose to prominence had collected soldiers in his army coming from other various nations which were all represented among Gog the chief prince's army, as listed in Ezekiel 38:5 (Persians, Ethiopians, Libyans, Gomer, and Togarmah).

Gog came from "his place out of the north parts" of the land of Israel - namely, the region of "Galilee of the Gentiles" in the north quarter of the land of Israel.

This battle of Gog was an ancient battle, fulfilled long, long ago with swords, bucklers, shields and helmets, horses and horsemen, bows and arrows, hand-staves and spears - weapons which were used for fuel during those seven years following the battle back in AD 69.
Which eschatological prophecy items do you think are yet to be fullfilled?
 
Which eschatological prophecy items do you think are yet to be fullfilled?
The future for us will include the culmination of fallen mankind's history on this planet at a final GWT judgment of the dead and a final THIRD bodily resurrection event at Christ's THIRD coming (which I believe scripture indicates will be in the fall of 3033). Christ's second coming return was already fulfilled back in AD 70 on that year's Pentecost day, according to Daniel's 1,335th day with its resurrection at the end of those 1,335 days. Christ told His first-century generation in Matt. 16:27-28 that He would return with angels to give rewards to everyone according to their works while some of them He was then speaking to in person were still alive. All the events leading up to that second coming return to the Mount of Olives took place before that first-century generation had passed away, as Christ predicted in Matt. 24:34, etc..

Everything in the book of Daniel has already been fulfilled - bar none. These are all datable events and historical persons and empires which can be identified by historical records and archaeological evidence. Also, everything in the book of Revelation has likewise been fulfilled with the exception of a single verse - namely, the prophecies of Revelation 10:4 which the seven thunders uttered. John was forbidden to write these prophecies down, but "sealed them up" for future generations that would come after the destruction of Jerusalem and those attending disasters of the "days of vengeance" / Great Tribulation years from AD 66-70. Those "sealed up" prophecies of Revelation 10:4 have been playing out until today, and will be into our future, right up to the end of the 7th millennium at the culmination of fallen mankind's history.

All the three Beasts of Revelation are gone, and their activities are ancient history.
"The Antichrist" is ancient history since he was murdered in AD 66.
The battle of "Gog" at Jerusalem is ancient history since AD 69-70 (and there is no battle which would ever take place at Armageddon).
Satan and the entire Satanic realm is ancient history, having been destroyed by God in AD 70.
The "Great Tribulation" is ancient history, lasting from AD 66-70.
The "rapture" of 1 Thess. 4. is ancient history since AD 70's Pentecost day at Christ's return.
The "Lake of Fire" / "Second death" of the city of Jerusalem being destroyed is also ancient history.
All the seals, trumpets, and vial judgments of Revelation are ancient history.
The "New Jerusalem" was left without a rival after that "shaking" process during the Great Tribulation years , and remains in place today.
The conditions of Isaiah's "New Heavens and the New Earth" have remained in place since the first century.

I can say this because John wrote in the introduction (Rev. 1:3) and at the conclusion (Rev. 22:10) of his book that all those revealed events prophesying future things that were "at hand" for his own generation would "shortly come to pass" (Rev. 1:1), and were "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) in John's own days. I believe John, and I believe Christ.
 
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The future for us will include the culmination of fallen mankind's history on this planet at a final GWT judgment of the dead and a final THIRD bodily resurrection event at Christ's THIRD coming (which I believe scripture indicates will be in the fall of 3033). Christ's second coming return was already fulfilled back in AD 70 on that year's Pentecost day, according to Daniel's 1,335th day with its resurrection at the end of those 1,335 days. Christ told His first-century generation in Matt. 16:27-28 that He would return with angels to give rewards to everyone according to their works while some of them He was then speaking to in person were still alive. All the events leading up to that second coming return to the Mount of Olives took place before that first-century generation had passed away, as Christ predicted in Matt. 24:34, etc..

Everything in the book of Daniel has already been fulfilled - bar none. These are all datable events and historical persons and empires which can be identified by historical records and archaeological evidence. Also, everything in the book of Revelation has likewise been fulfilled with the exception of a single verse - namely, the prophecies of Revelation 10:4 which the seven thunders uttered. John was forbidden to write these prophecies down, but "sealed them up" for future generations that would come after the destruction of Jerusalem and those attending disasters of the "days of vengeance" / Great Tribulation years from AD 66-70. Those "sealed up" prophecies of Revelation 10:4 have been playing out until today, and will be into our future, right up to the end of the 7th millennium at the culmination of fallen mankind's history.

All the three Beasts of Revelation are gone, and their activities are ancient history.
"The Antichrist" is ancient history since he was murdered in AD 66.
The battle of "Gog" at Jerusalem is ancient history since AD 69-70 (and there is no battle which would ever take place at Armageddon).
Satan and the entire Satanic realm is ancient history, having been destroyed by God in AD 70.
The "Great Tribulation" is ancient history, lasting from AD 66-70.
The "rapture" of 1 Thess. 4. is ancient history since AD 70's Pentecost day at Christ's return.
The "Lake of Fire" / "Second death" of the city of Jerusalem being destroyed is also ancient history.
All the seals, trumpets, and vial judgments of Revelation are ancient history.
The "New Jerusalem" was left without a rival after that "shaking" process during the Great Tribulation years , and remains in place today.
The conditions of Isaiah's "New Heavens and the New Earth" have remained in place since the first century.

I can say this because John wrote in the introduction (Rev. 1:3) and at the conclusion (Rev. 22:10) of his book that all those revealed events prophesying future things that were "at hand" for his own generation would "shortly come to pass" (Rev. 1:1), and were "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) in John's own days. I believe John, and I believe Christ.
Fascinating! You seem to be a full Preterist.
 
Fascinating! You seem to be a full Preterist.
No, actually, I'm not. A Full Preterist will not acknowledge a bodily resurrection of any kind - let alone THREE bodily resurrection events. They do not believe in a past Rev. 20 millennium of a literal thousand years, which scripture presents. Neither do they believe in a bodily "rapture" of the resurrected saints to heaven, which Paul taught about. Neither do they believe that there were THREE Beasts of Revelation, which are all gone since AD 70. Neither do they believe that God slew Satan and the entire Satanic realm in AD 70. Neither do they state a culmination date for fallen mankind's history on this planet for our future. And some other stuff, etc.
 
Wrong. The "four quarters" was not going to be the entire world. The "four quarters of the earth" were the four sections of the geographical nation of Israel, as mentioned in Ezekiel 6:1-3. "...thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel: An end, the end has come upon the four corners of the land. Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations." This was the set of judgments which the Babylonian empire was then bringing upon the nation of Israel and Jerusalem back in those days. Ezekiel was prophesying as the series of subsequent deportations of ethnic Israelites were already in progress

Four is used to represent north, south, east, west . . the circle of the earth

No signs were given to wonder after.

Land throughout the bible is used to represent the residents thereof leading towards the eternal city of Christ. It residents as a demonym called Christians . This corrupted dying earth has no value in spiritual matter .The temporal historical must be compared to the eternal things of Christ not seen

2 Corinthians 4: 18 Since we consider and look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are visible are temporal (brief and fleeting), but the things that are invisible are deathless and everlasting
 
No, actually, I'm not. A Full Preterist will not acknowledge a bodily resurrection of any kind - let alone THREE bodily resurrection events. They do not believe in a past Rev. 20 millennium of a literal thousand years, which scripture presents. Neither do they believe in a bodily "rapture" of the resurrected saints to heaven, which Paul taught about. Neither do they believe that there were THREE Beasts of Revelation, which are all gone since AD 70. Neither do they believe that God slew Satan and the entire Satanic realm in AD 70. Neither do they state a culmination date for fallen mankind's history on this planet for our future. And some other stuff, etc.
He's close enough to align with them much more than any other group of the four main ones in professing Christendom. 3 R's once belong to the same groups of premill that I first started with back in the early seventies, when he was a little younger than myself, around ten years or so. Then we both attended the same church for a period of time back in the mid eighties, until I left in the early nineties that was drifting more toward preterist eschatology being the main the reason I left ~ along with other problems not worthy of mentioning.

While he may not believe exactly as a true committed Perterist ~ they do have the same DNA in Bible eschatology to be connected as one family. Even the church he left, are what I call a half baked Preterist. I do not hide my eacathologies beliefs ( and neither does 3 R's) I'm a Amill Idealist. https://amillennial.org/how-to-read...ist-historicist-and-futurist-views-explained/
 
The future for us will include the culmination of fallen mankind's history on this planet at a final GWT judgment of the dead and a final THIRD bodily resurrection event at Christ's THIRD coming (which I believe scripture indicates will be in the fall of 3033). Christ's second coming return was already fulfilled back in AD 70 on that year's Pentecost day, according to Daniel's 1,335th day with its resurrection at the end of those 1,335 days. Christ told His first-century generation in Matt. 16:27-28 that He would return with angels to give rewards to everyone according to their works while some of them He was then speaking to in person were still alive. All the events leading up to that second coming return to the Mount of Olives took place before that first-century generation had passed away, as Christ predicted in Matt. 24:34, etc..

Everything in the book of Daniel has already been fulfilled - bar none. These are all datable events and historical persons and empires which can be identified by historical records and archaeological evidence. Also, everything in the book of Revelation has likewise been fulfilled with the exception of a single verse - namely, the prophecies of Revelation 10:4 which the seven thunders uttered. John was forbidden to write these prophecies down, but "sealed them up" for future generations that would come after the destruction of Jerusalem and those attending disasters of the "days of vengeance" / Great Tribulation years from AD 66-70. Those "sealed up" prophecies of Revelation 10:4 have been playing out until today, and will be into our future, right up to the end of the 7th millennium at the culmination of fallen mankind's history.

All the three Beasts of Revelation are gone, and their activities are ancient history.
"The Antichrist" is ancient history since he was murdered in AD 66.
The battle of "Gog" at Jerusalem is ancient history since AD 69-70 (and there is no battle which would ever take place at Armageddon).
Satan and the entire Satanic realm is ancient history, having been destroyed by God in AD 70.
The "Great Tribulation" is ancient history, lasting from AD 66-70.
The "rapture" of 1 Thess. 4. is ancient history since AD 70's Pentecost day at Christ's return.
The "Lake of Fire" / "Second death" of the city of Jerusalem being destroyed is also ancient history.
All the seals, trumpets, and vial judgments of Revelation are ancient history.
The "New Jerusalem" was left without a rival after that "shaking" process during the Great Tribulation years , and remains in place today.
The conditions of Isaiah's "New Heavens and the New Earth" have remained in place since the first century.

I can say this because John wrote in the introduction (Rev. 1:3) and at the conclusion (Rev. 22:10) of his book that all those revealed events prophesying future things that were "at hand" for his own generation would "shortly come to pass" (Rev. 1:1), and were "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) in John's own days. I believe John, and I believe Christ.
To even begin to address you multitudes of errors would take us so far away from this threads subject, but I might after I'm finished.

I will address Matthew 24:34 again which I have more than once with you, but no problem once again, which may very well be needed for someone who is trying to figure this mess out created by the many false prophets of the latter days.
 
He's close enough to align with them much more than any other group of the four main ones in professing Christendom. 3 R's once belong to the same groups of premill that I first started with back in the early seventies, when he was a little younger than myself, around ten years or so. Then we both attended the same church for a period of time back in the mid eighties, until I left in the early nineties that was drifting more toward preterist eschatology being the main the reason I left ~ along with other problems not worthy of mentioning.

While he may not believe exactly as a true committed Perterist ~ they do have the same DNA in Bible eschatology to be connected as one family. Even the church he left, are what I call a half baked Preterist. I do not hide my eacathologies beliefs ( and neither does 3 R's) I'm a Amill Idealist. https://amillennial.org/how-to-read...ist-historicist-and-futurist-views-explained/
Same DNA ?

Bodily resurrection?
 
Jesus said it is a evil generation natural unconverted mankind that does seek after lying signs to wonder after.
Amen! This is the sense in which "this generation" is used throughout the scriptures and the very sense in which our Lord used the phrase 'this generation", without an exception, that I can think of, unless someone can prove me wrong, but the overwhelming evidence is he always used this generation in reference to the evil and wicked generation of the children of the Wicked one.

The word of God is its own dictionary and can and does used words in a sense which the Spirit is either hiding a truth, or just presenting a truth in a manner which the scriptures will support ~and when we compare scriptures with scriptures, then it will be evident exactly what God is saying to us, that others cannot see and will never see, unless their eyes are open by the Spirit to see. God owes no man truth, it is a blessed privilege to see truth, generally given to those few who trust God to reveal his hidden truth to them.

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things"~Our Lord's words should be considered within the context of Matthew 24:4-34, and following verses! Preterist are famous for stamping our bibles and its prophecies fulfilled 70 A.D. if we sit back and allow them to do so.

"know that it is near, even at the doors"~What is it that believers should know? The second coming of Jesus Christ to destroy his enemies and to gather together his elect from the four winds of heaven. You will not not have one without the other, both shall occur at the same time in bible prophecy as preached by Christ himself, not as this group, or that group believes.

The signs given in Matthew twenty four, and twenty five, is one discourse given at the same time covering one main event, Jesus' second coming known by certain signs provided for us by Christ, who alone, who knows the end from the beginning. The day and hour is hidden from us, even from Jesus as the man Christ Jesus, hidden from his humanity, but not from his deity as God!

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled~the generation that shall not passed is the generation of who Christ was speaking about in Matthew 24:4-30.

Matthew 24:5​

“For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Matthew 24:24​

“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

What is written thus far in Matthew 24, could have never been fulfilled to the degree it has in our day, through the media of radio and TV..... impossible. Besides, consider all the multitudes of false cults that has risen in the world in the last 175 years, is another testimony, that Matthew 24 goes way beyond those thirty five to forty some odd years from Christ death to 70 A.D. the golden calf date of so many false teachings~when in truth, the gospel made great progress, even with few prophets false in comparison to the millions in our day! They are everywhere on almost every corner in every city around this world. We are witnessing a perfect fulfillment of Matthew 24:9-12.

Look at the great signs and wonders of the movement of the charismatics, not so much at their so called gifts of the Spirit, but their 100,000's millions of dollars businesses they have accumulated, all in the name of rellgion, doing God's work of spreading the gospel as they called it. These are signs and wonders of the last days. Back in the late eighties, the Jimmy Swaggart Ministry was bringing in 1/2 millions of dollars per day, yes, per day~while he was chasing prostitutes. Some of the richest folks in this world are preachers. Kenneth Copeland is worth almost one billions dollars, yes, one billion!

I will look more at Matthew 24:34 in my next post.
 
Already and not yet…we are all partial Preterist in the sense that the temple and Jerusalem were surrounded and destroyed precisely as Jesus said, His first generation of disciples were treated just as He said and yet all of those signs have been present from that day until now and will continue until His Return. It will get much worse near the very end and then BOOM.
For 2000 years we have seen ebbs and flows of disasters, antichrists and hypocrisy and heresy, all the while the Gospel making headway and often quietly as far as common written history tells folks.
The gates of hell cannot and has not withstood the onslaught of Truth as the Father has given and will continue to give the elect to the Son…until that last one is brought in.
 
Already and not yet…we are all partial Preterist in the sense that the temple and Jerusalem were surrounded and destroyed precisely as Jesus said,
I'm not even partial~Jesus' words have reference to the camp of saints, not a bunch of rebels who hated and desipes the Son of God. Whatever happen when Jerusalem was destroyed is not recorded in the scriptures, for it served no prophecy of any importance. The Jewish apostles never spent time warning of any upcoming judgment upon the Jewish nation, if so, where? God was 100% finished with dealing with the Jews as a nation where folks went to worship at the resurrection as of Jesus Christ, when the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Matthew 27:51​

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;”

There was a new and living way into God's presence where an earthly priest no longer served any purpose.


God has changed his residence! and he never is going to change back~Amen. He now dwells in the hearts of his people through the blood of his Son, Jesus Christ. We can visit him any time without the intervention of an earthly priest~we all are on equal grounds through the blood of Jesus Christ. Our sins have been totally, forever forgiven never to be mention to us again, never~by the one offering of the body of Jesus Christ.

Now, the world hates Christians,~they hates Jews only because of their association of them being a type of the True Israel of God~any connection with God, marks them an enemy, but the true enemies of the world are the very elect....Jews and Gentiles.

Revelation 20:9​

“And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Revelation 20:9 a fulfillment of Luke 21;20....

Luke 21:20​

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

The world hates the saints of God, and their love of the scriptures, because it exposes their wickedness~the world will close the gap more and more to where they will make it very hard for them to express their faith without them being hated and persecuted, and even shamed for believing so different from the world~so be it, we are not going to give in, no, never.
 
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VERSE NINE


  • "And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the Saints about, and the beloved city, and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them".
This army as a plague goes up and surrounds the Saints. Again, the saints are the Believers. It's those Sanctified! For example, in Revelation 20:6 where we read, "Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the 1st resurrection", that word Holy there is the exact same word as translated Saints. So you see, the Blessed, the Holy, of the 1st Resurrection, are the believers. The camp of the Saints is where believers live. i.e., the Church! That is their encampment where this warfare takes place! It's the Beloved City. Not a literal City, but a Spiritual City Holy in Christ, which represents the Kingdom of God. When we read of the coming of Christ, God illustrates that:

Isaiah 9:6

  • "For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the Increase of His government and Peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of DAVID, and upon His Kingdom..."
This is Christ who rules upon the Throne of David. And David means "Beloved." Christ is ruler of the beloved City for He is the one that dwells in the midst of the city to make it beloved. Christ said, where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them (Matt. 18:20). The camp of the Saints is beloved or Holy only because the saints are in Christ. As when God spoke to John the Baptist, saying, "This is my Beloved Son." Christ is the Beloved City, and we (The Church) are the Body of Christ. That Word beloved applies to the saints or believers. Don't take my word, search the scriptures. In the exact same 2nd Thessalonians that talks about that loosing of the Iniquity that was bound or being restrained, God contrasts the "truly Saved" against those who are deceived saying:

2nd Thessalonians 2:13

  • "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for YOU, brethren Beloved of the LORD, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth!"
These are the Saints. This is the beloved city in Christ. These are the Chosen few, the Children (elect) of God. This is the encampment that Satan and his army come against when he is loosed. This is the Holy City!

Matthew 5:14

  • "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid".
We are that Holy City there that Jesus talked about. Contrary to some Theologians hopes, it is not an earthly city in the middle east. It is the camp of the saints proclaiming the Gospel message from the highest hill. We are not ashamed of the truth of scripture.

In typology, in the Old Testament before the cross, earthly Jerusalem was spoken of as the Holy City, the literal Temple as the Holy Temple, the literal lamb as the Sacrifice lamb. But After the cross, all those things concerning ceremonial laws, and literal Buildings or Holy of Holies, Holy Cities, Animal sacrifices, going to earthly Jerusalem 3 times a year, etc., were all done away with. That is why it is incomprehensible how so many are still enamored by these former "types" in the middle east. They were shadows of Christ and his Kingdom. He came to fulfill those shadows, being the true. The Only Temple that is in view today is Christ. The Church being the representation of Christ is also spoken of as the Holy Temple. And True Christians having Christ dwell within them also are a Holy Temple. There are no other Holy Temples, after the cross. The only Holy place is the Place of the Lord. The Only Holy City is the City of the Saints, the Church. The Lord has something more important in view than a Temple building of literal Bricks and mortar or an earthly kingdom. What has that got to do with the gospel? The Lord has something more Important in view than a literal city somewhere that people "think" is somehow Holy. The Ceremonial law is over, the law of Christ is here. Circumcision is Over, Baptism is here. Slaughtering Lambs is over, the Lamb of GOD is here. Trips to a Holy City three times a year is over, the only Holy City we journey to is Christ. Anyone who doesn't understand this should learn the Parable of the Fig Tree, or study the parable of the vineyard and the householder. The Camp of the saints, is the Church. It's where the saints (Holy People) camp. When Satan is Loosed in verse 7, he will go forth to muster his army to assault the church (Great tribulation and persecution), but in the end, Fire from God will devour his Army. In other words, they shall suffer the judgment of God.

Symbolism
Beloved City = The Church
Fire From God = God's Judgment
Summary of Revelation 20:9.

The breadth of the earth and the camp of the saints must be understood relative to the beloved city. The beloved city is not Jerusalem on earth, which John calls Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8). Forget earthly Jerusalem: see God’s true city (Gal 4:25-26; Heb 11:10,16; 12:22-24; 13:14)! John knew this city was the bride and church of Christ (Rev 3:12; 21:2,10,14-27; 22:14,19).

The camp and city here are the church and kingdom of Jesus Christ, yet vulnerable upon earth. Do not think military encirclements; think worldwide opposition or persecution of true saints. The kingdom of Jesus Christ is being assaulted today by carnal Christianity (II Tim 3:1 – 4:5).

We have scriptural authority from an apostle that used express language to see literal fire here. How will the wicked nations be destroyed? By the flaming fire of Jesus Christ (II Thess 1:7-8). When will the wicked nations be destroyed? At Christ’s second coming (II Thes 1:7,10; 2:1,8).

Does any other apostle declare the same event? Yes, Peter also did expressly (II Pet 3:7,10-18). What comes after Christ’s second coming in fire and glory? The new heavens and new earth! What is this battle? It is a spiritual battle against the saints of Jesus Christ on earth; but since the Bible does not give us any details, we rely on the epistles of Paul and Peter for further warnings. Why think very far beyond the perilous times of compromising Christianity (II Tim 3:1 – 4:5)? What can we do? Preach the word and be not moved from it (II Timothy 4:1-4; II Pet 3:14,17-18)!
 
I'm not even partial~Jesus' words have reference to the camp of saints, not a bunch of rebels who hated and desipes the Son of God. Whatever happen when Jerusalem was destroyed is not recorded in the scriptures, for it served no prophecy of any importance.
Jerusalem's actual destruction that would make its buildings "level with the ground" as Christ predicted in Luke 19:34 was NOT recorded in scripture because it hadn't happened yet in real time before all the first drafts of scripture were written, prior to AD 70's destruction of Jerusalem. Why would you expect that AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem to be recorded if the NT authors were writing before that year had come?

The Jewish apostles never spent time warning of any upcoming judgment upon the Jewish nation, if so, where?
This is utterly false. Hebrews 6:4-8 gave a sober warning to those wishing to depart from the faith and return to Judaism, since that system was "rejected" and was "near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned".

Paul also warned about the hostile Jews who were then persecuting the saints and were "contrary to all men. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath has come upon them to the uttermost." (1 Thess. 2:14-16). These Jews who were persecuting the saints were soon going to receive a recompense of tribulation themselves. In 2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 Paul consoled the Thessalonian saints who were then suffering for the faith and undergoing persecutions and tribulations, telling them to "rest with us" because the Lord would come from heaven with His angels, "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ". This would have been no comfort at all to the persecuted Thessalonians if Paul had been speaking of the Lord avenging them some 2,000 years plus down the road .

John the Baptist urged repentance for those of his own nation of Israel, because "...EVEN NOW the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matt. 3:10). John additionally warned about Christ's purging of His own people's nation, "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matt. 3:12). That winnowing fan process in Israel was ready to begin at that point, which would separate the wheat from the chaff from among the Israelites. That "floor" which John was speaking about was the Jerusalem temple site, which was originally built upon the site of Ornan the Jebusite's threshing floor which King David paid for. God was going to purge that site by fire in AD 70, getting rid of the "chaff" and the "weak and beggarly elements" which became dead and obsolete with Christ's crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.

Christ had expressed a wish that this fire was already kindled in Luke 12:49. "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!"

Christ told the weeping women on the way to the cross that they should "weep not for me, but for yourselves, and for your children". It was those Israelite women themselves and their own children who were going to experience those predicted disasters in their own lifetime.

James wrote a warning to "the twelve tribes of Israel" that were scattered abroad, telling them that "the coming of the Lord has drawn near" and "the judge standeth before the door" (James 1:1 and 5:8-9). The rich men were told to "weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you". James said these rich men had heaped together treasure in those last days, but this would not help them withstand the disasters that were soon coming to overtake them.

God was 100% finished with dealing with the Jews as a nation where folks went to worship at the resurrection as of Jesus Christ, when the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
That's not quite the right date. God switched the evangelistic emphasis over to the Gentile nations at the close of Daniel's 70th week in AD 37. This was the time when God commissioned the Apostle Paul in the Jerusalem temple vision to "Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles" (Acts 22:21). That final 7 years of the 70-week prophecy, (which lasted from AD 30-37) was composed of Christ "confirming the covenant with many" of Daniel's people (Dan. 9:27).

The temple veil tearing was a sign that Christ's flesh had been torn as a sacrifice for the children of God (the symbolism of the verse you brought up in Hebrews 10:20 - "...a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh...").

God has changed his residence! and he never is going to change back~Amen. He now dwells in the hearts of his people through the blood of his Son, Jesus Christ. We can visit him any time without the intervention of an earthly priest~we all are on equal grounds through the blood of Jesus Christ. Our sins have been totally, forever forgiven never to be mention to us again, never~by the one offering of the body of Jesus Christ.
Absolutely true. And to make it evident to one and all that He was never going back to that physical temple again after Christ had established the New Covenant in His blood in AD 33, God saw to it that Jerusalem's temple was physically destroyed down to the last stone in AD 70.

This was very similar to King Hezekiah breaking the brass serpent to pieces in 2 Kings 18:4, because the Israelites had been burning incense to it. It was necessary to physically destroy that "piece of brass" which King Hezekiah called "Nehushtan" because its original purpose had been fulfilled long before then. The Israelites were making an idol of that brass serpent, which had never been God's intent, anymore than God desired for the physical Jerusalem temple itself to be idolized. Just like the brass serpent, the physical temple of Israel with its obsolete system that the Israelites were idolizing needed to be physically broken to pieces, which God did accomplish in AD 70, as Christ had promised would happen.

Luke 21:20“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”​

You are incorrect to assume that this verse speaks of God's church being surrounded and overcome by spiritual enemies. This verse predicts a NEAR "DESOLATION" for Jerusalem. This was the physical city of Jerusalem being surrounded by literal, military armies prior to its physical desolation by "the end of the war". Daniel had predicted that the city of Jerusalem and its sanctuary would be made desolate "with the abominable armies" (Dan. 9:26-27).

The church of God NEVER becomes "desolate", as Christ once described for the physical city and temple of Jerusalem. Christ said that not even the gates of Hell would prevail against His kingdom in this world. The leaven of the kingdom of heaven continues to grow, as does the mustard seed and the "stone" kingdom of Christ, which shall never pass away. You are projecting your own gloomy outlook onto the progress of the Holy Spirit's work in this world. Scripture presents no such pessimistic attitude to the progress of the gospel in this world up to the final judgment in our future.

Take heart, Red. God can reserve to Himself "7,000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal" in every generation - even the most perverse. There are revivals presently taking place in this world that do not necessarily hit the newsfeed or the internet. The "wind" of the Holy Spirit does not wait for a reporter to document that it is blowing where it wants to go.
 
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You are incorrect to assume that this verse speaks of God's church being surrounded and overcome by spiritual enemies. This verse predicts a NEAR "DESOLATION" for Jerusalem. This was the physical city of Jerusalem being surrounded by literal, military armies prior to its physical desolation by "the end of the war". Daniel had predicted that the city of Jerusalem and its sanctuary would be made desolate "with the abominable armies" (Dan. 9:26-27).

The church of God NEVER becomes "desolate", as Christ once described for the physical city and temple of Jerusalem. Christ said that not even the gates of Hell would prevail against His kingdom in this world. The leaven of the kingdom of heaven continues to grow, as does the mustard seed and the "stone" kingdom of Christ, which shall never pass away. You are projecting your own gloomy outlook onto the progress of the Holy Spirit's work in this world. Scripture presents no such pessimistic attitude to the progress of the gospel in this world up to the final judgment in our future.

Take heart, Red. God can reserve to Himself "7,000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal" in every generation - even the most perverse. There are revivals presently taking place in this world that do not necessarily hit the newsfeed or the internet. The "wind" of the Holy Spirit does not wait for a reporter to document that it is blowing where it wants to go.
Amen! Good job.
 
Amen! Good job.
Brother, not so fast with your Amen. Let me come back and present another side of this argument and answer his scriptures that he has presented. I see no problem in doing so. I may have time later today, if not, the first thing in the morning the Lord willing, and I'm pretty sure that he is. ;)
 
Brother, not so fast with your Amen. Let me come back and present another side of this argument and answer his scriptures that he has presented. I see no problem in doing so. I may have time later today, if not, the first thing in the morning the Lord willing, and I'm pretty sure that he is. ;)
I do not need to agree with everything in order to applaud and I seldom find a need to dissect unless regarding what I believe are vital…vital, I say, vital.
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Jerusalem's actual destruction that would make its buildings "level with the ground" as Christ predicted in Luke 19:34 was NOT recorded in scripture because it hadn't happened yet in real time before all the first drafts of scripture were written, prior to AD 70's destruction of Jerusalem. Why would you expect that AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem to be recorded if the NT authors were writing before that year had come?
What one would expect was a forewarning that it was coming, which not a direct word is recorded, which you would think the apostles, especially so Paul and John, maybe not the other ones to the same degree, understood Daniel's prophecy beginning with chapters 7-12 which prophecy is a direct reference to the abomination that maketh desolate, and the man of sin, quilty with the overspreading of such abominations!

The truth is this: beginning with Jesus' interpretation of Daniel's prophecy, he gave us warnings of what Daniel spoke concerning that would take place just before his second coming and the end of this world as we know it ~ and from there, Paul enlarged upon the same prophecy from Daniel, in 2nd Thessalonians 2; and John the beloved apostle, gave the most detail explanation of Daniel's prophecies~1st John 2;18 and Revelation chapters 6-20.

This is utterly false. Hebrews 6:4-8 gave a sober warning to those wishing to depart from the faith and return to Judaism, since that system was "rejected" and was "near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned".
So, is this best you can do? What is said in Hebrews 6:4-8 is true of every professing believers. This has not one thing to do with the city of Jerusalem being burnt with fire in or around 70. A.D. not one thing.
Paul also warned about the hostile Jews who were then persecuting the saints and were "contrary to all men. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath has come upon them to the uttermost." (1 Thess. 2:14-16). These Jews who were persecuting the saints were soon going to receive a recompense of tribulation themselves.
I would have thought this this would have been your go to scripture, for it is the closest warning concerning any type of judgment to come upon the Jews. 1st Thess. 2:14,16 is still speaking mainly concerning certain Jews who were persecuting Christians and forbidden others to preach unto the Gentiles~nothing concerning Rome destroying their city and them, as though it was a major Bible prophecy for us to understand "before" we can understand Daniel's prophecies. Daniel's prophecies are understood only in the light of NT scriptures, not the other way around as so many believe.
John the Baptist urged repentance for those of his own nation of Israel, because "...EVEN NOW the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matt. 3:10). John additionally warned about Christ's purging of His own people's nation, "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matt. 3:12). That winnowing fan process in Israel was ready to begin at that point, which would separate the wheat from the chaff from among the Israelites. That "floor" which John was speaking about was the Jerusalem temple site, which was originally built upon the site of Ornan the Jebusite's threshing floor which King David paid for. God was going to purge that site by fire in AD 70, getting rid of the "chaff" and the "weak and beggarly elements" which became dead and obsolete with Christ's crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.
You are straining the scriptures to support you doctrine! Very dishonest way of using God's word. You can do better than that.

Consider if you will, you may not even desire to try to hear the scriptures, since you are infatuated with your Preterist doctrine above the word of God, it seems to me~if wrong, then forgive me.

Consider please: Before the bad trees are burned in the fire and destroyed, he first gathers together his wheat into the garner...then he will baptized all of the wicked in the lake of fire by the power of the Holy Ghost where they shall perish!

John is speaking to....

Matthew 3:7​


“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

He is telling them that they shall be baptized with fire and that will take place at the end of this world, not in 70 A.D. as you vainly believe and teach.

The wrath to come always has reference to the final judgment and the lake of fire which will be THIS WORLD when it will be destroy by fire!

More to come, give me time to finish before posting. Maybe tomorrow, it's too late for me to finish today.
 
The truth is this: beginning with Jesus' interpretation of Daniel's prophecy, he gave us warnings of what Daniel spoke concerning that would take place just before his second coming and the end of this world as we know it
EXACTLY. (Although it really is "the end of the AGE" which Christ spoke about - not that the planet would disappear). That is why 1 Peter 4:7 wrote to his own first-century readers that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND". Those believers in Peter's day were then sitting at the "END OF ALL THINGS" in their lifetime. The conditions in the world after that "END of all things" have turned into the "New heavens and the New earth" that Isaiah described. This "END" in the first century is what Hebrews 12:27-28 was also referring to. Hebrews wrote that God had "NOW" promised to shake not only the earth, but the heavens also, so that what could not be shaken would remain, and what WAS shaken would be "removed".

You and I are the beneficiaries of that promise, fulfilled back in the first century, whether you realize it or not. John Owen agreed with this, if that bears any weight with you.
 
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So, is this best you can do? What is said in Hebrews 6:4-8 is true of every professing believers. This has not one thing to do with the city of Jerusalem being burnt with fire in or around 70. A.D. not one thing.
The departure from the faith back to Judaism that Paul warned against in Hebrews 6:4-8 was explained further in Hebrews 10:26-27. "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which is about to devour the adversaries." Judaism and the temple worship system was about to receive a fatal blow in the AD 70 period. Already as Hebrews was being written , there was "no more sacrifice for sins" that was being accepted by God in that dead temple structure. A judgment under God's "fiery indignation" was "about to devour the adversaries" of the hostile Jews who had been persecuting the saints from city to city, as Christ had foretold would happen to His disciples. God was going to "judge His people" (Heb. 10:30), by bringing "vengeance" in "recompense" for their killing His servants that Jesus Christ said He was going to send among that generation of Israelites (Matt. 23:34-36).

You also miss the significance of the "song of Moses" being sung in Revelation 15:3, just before the seven vials of judgment were to be poured out on the earth in Revelation 16. That "song of Moses" which Moses taught the Israelites back in Deuteronomy 32 was a prediction of their destruction and judgment at the "latter end" of Israel as a people (Deut. 32:29). This is the exact chapter which Paul was quoting back in Hebrews 10. "Vengeance", "recompense", and God "judging His people" was going to specifically target the end of ethnic Israel as the formerly "holy people". God would "avenge the blood of his servants", and would "render vengeance to his adversaries" when God would "make mine arrows drunk with blood" and with His sword that would "devour flesh" and bring them into captivity (Deut. 32:42).

God described in Deut. 32:22-24 "a fire kindled in mine anger" that would "burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains" (the mountains surrounding Jerusalem). These "children in whom is no faith" of the nation of Israel would be "burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction". This was the "fiery indignation" that Paul wrote in Hebrews 10:26-27 was "about to devour the adversaries" who were the hostile Jews who had hated and rejected their Messiah.
 
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