Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy

[Red Baker]

I think you may be right. No question the spirit of antichrists have been on the increase. I am waiting for a broad apostasy to emerge, a whole lot of Jews to turn to Christ and the final appearance of the “man of sin” and his turning en masse on the true Christians who have not, as Christ said, been deceived. And that time will not last long. Christ will return and destroy Him.

Brother, the man of sin is here already, and has been since the beginning of time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7​

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”

The man of sin is just what the phrase is saying: man of sin....man of sin! It is any and all men who profess to believe in God, yet they live under the power of sin...their own lust!

Example: Much like Jimmy Swaggart, who privately sought to fulfilled his lust through chasing after prostitutes under the cover of darkness, while preaching against the same before millions! When caught, he just reinvented himself by laboring to convinced millions that God had revealed the true gospel to him (the message of the cross) that has been hid from the masses! He has done a masterful job in deceiving them again as he did the first time around.

Jimmy Swaggart is not alone, there are many such false prophets that have gone out into the world, if it were possible they could deceive the very elect, but that's not possible.

2 Thessalonians 2:7​

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”

The Spirit of God will once again allow Satan to use his full power to deceive the masses during the little sason of Revelation 20~which we are convinced that this is almost over an hundred and fifty years in the making. Not sure how much longer and how much more deception will run rapid throughout this world. America is the last stronghold of truth, and she is quickly rejecting it to where very few pulpits are sounding forth any truth. Mega churches are on the rise, and God's children have flee from most professing churches, because they are not welcome, but actually are hated and despised.

1st John 2:18​

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.”

Yes, many antichrist, and man of sin, yet in the latter days of the last days, it will increase greatly as we all now see.

"that antichrist shall come~...that is, in great numbers as never before in the history of this world. This is the true teachings of Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2nd Thess 2; and Revelation 7-20 !

 

[3 Resurrections]

He was upset when cast out of heaven, but now he is more upset knowing judgment is near!

We are living in this little season at this present time

NO, WE ARE NOT in the "little season" of Satan's being loosed from his millennial chain. John wrote a warning in Revelation 12:12 to his own first-century readers, saying that Satan had ALREADY come down to them in great wrath, knowing that he had but a "short time" BACK THEN as John was writing.

That "short time" / "little season" expired long, long ago in the first century. As you remember, scripture describes a "long season" as being 40 years of wilderness wanderings for the Israelites (Joshua 24:7). Therefore, a "little season" or a "short time" can't possibly last longer than 40 years. In AD 33, Satan was released from his deception of the nations being bound, and only existed a "short time" / "little season" after that until he and his entire Satanic realm was destroyed utterly in AD 70.

 

[3 Resurrections]

2 Thessalonians 2:7​

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”

The Spirit of God will once again allow Satan to use his full power to deceive the masses during the little sason of Revelation 20

So, you are thinking that the Holy Spirit will be "taken out of the way" so that the Antichrist will be revealed in our future? This is impossible, because Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would "abide with you forever" (John 14:16). The Holy Spirit will NEVER be "taken out of the way".

The "Man of Lawlessness" was a first-century Zealot. Christ was prophesied to be "numbered with the lawless" in His death in Isaiah 53:12 . In fulfillment of this, Mark 15:28 said that Christ was crucified between two thieves who had participated in a seditious insurrection with Barabbas against Rome. These two thieves were members of the seditious Zealot cause, and "the Man of Lawlessness" would be yet another Zealot leader attempting to claim the Messiah role over the ethnic nation of Israel.

This Zealot leader "Man of Lawlessness" was alive in Paul's days. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians reminding them that he had already identified both this man and his restrainer when he had been among them (2 Thess. 2:5-6). As 2 Thessalonians 2 was being written around AD 54, this Zealot leader "Man of Lawlessness" was then being restrained from coming into power over Israel by the high priesthood who wanted to preserve their own authority by remaining under Rome's oversight of their nation.

You are way off track in identifying the Antichrist, Red. This Antichrist was murdered back in AD 66 in the city of Jerusalem after attempting to "exalt himself" by showing himself in the temple as the King of the Jews, dressed in King Herod's stolen robes of state.

 

[Red Baker]

So, you are thinking that the Holy Spirit will be "taken out of the way" so that the Antichrist will be revealed in our future? This is impossible, because Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would "abide with you forever" (John 14:16). The Holy Spirit will NEVER be "taken out of the way".

I never said that The Holy Spirit will be taken away from the believer ~ leaving them without any comfort or protection. The Spirit's restraining power will be taken away ~ so Satan once again can go out and deceive the nations to the degree he once did before the coming of Christ. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The "Man of Lawlessness" was a first-century Zealot. Christ was prophesied to be "numbered with the lawless" in His death in Isaiah 53:12 . In fulfillment of this, Mark 15:28 said that Christ was crucified between two thieves who had participated in a seditious insurrection with Barabbas against Rome. These two thieves were members of the seditious Zealot cause, and "the Man of Lawlessness" would be yet another Zealot leader attempting to claim the Messiah role over the ethnic nation of Israel.

This Zealot leader "Man of Lawlessness" was alive in Paul's days. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians reminding them that he had already identified both this man and his restrainer when he had been among them (2 Thess. 2:5-6). As 2 Thessalonians 2 was being written around AD 54, this Zealot leader "Man of Lawlessness" was then being restrained from coming into power over Israel by the high priesthood who wanted to preserve their own authority by remaining under Rome's oversight of their nation.

You are being deceived by men like Josephus ~ instead of following only the word of God. The man of sin is not one man, but all who live under the power of sin! Follow Paul's context of 2nd Thess 2.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-12~"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Let no man deceive you by any means~The Holy Ghost before even starting to show us a truth concerning the man of sin, he warns us to not allow any man deceive us by any means! You are not listening very well, by allowing yourself to be carried about by men like Josephus, instead of only listening to the voice of the Spirit from his very own testimony.
Man of sin~The Man of Sin would be revealed. He would be clearly identified before Christ comes.

A man of sin, like a man of war, is one proficient and forward in sin and sinning. Collective nouns are single in number, but include all of their species (I Tim 2:11; II Tim 3:17; Ps 10:18; 37:7; Heb 9:7). You and all Futurists want a single man, yet the context will not support that teaching~consider:

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
They and them are the man of sin showing that it is not one man, but all who serve sin yet professign the name of Jesus Christ! To add to their sinful lust, God shall send them even a stronger delusion, so strong, they truly think they are doing God a service~and you will never convinced them otherwise, never.

I have address this with you on Grace centered forum a few years back.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You are being deceived by men like Josephus ~ instead of following only the word of God. The man of sin is not one man, but all who live under the power of sin! Follow Paul's context of 2nd Thess 2.

Red, I quoted from the context of 2 Thessalonians and Isaiah, and Mark's account of the crucifixion. All of these combined show that "Lawlessness" was scripture's name for the sedition against Rome in the first century that started insurrections against their Roman overlords. The Zealots are not something imaginary. Jesus had a converted Zealot among His twelve disciples (Simon Zelotes).

Paul had told the Thessalonians exactly who that Antichrist and his restrainer were when he had been among them. 2 Thessalonians 2 was Paul's reminder to them of what Paul had told them previously in person (2 Thess. 2:5-7). Those two men were alive back then in Paul's days. There is no way possible for the Man of Lawlessness to have lived beyond that generation, nor his restrainer either. This is not a generic term for sinful mankind, since Paul warned that this "Man of Lawlessness was "coming" - not that this was everyone who has lived under the power of sin ever since Creation. "THE Son of destruction" in 2 Thess. 2:3 is not a generic title for the whole group of sinful mankind lying under the power of sin. It's the definite article referring to a single man.

They and them are the man of sin showing that it is not one man, but all who serve sin yet professign the name of Jesus Christ!

"They" and "them" were the "many antichrists" which 1 John 2:18 wrote were already among the believers in that generation. "THE Antichrist" was just the first one of those many antichrists who was able to get into the temple, exalting himself as the prophesied Messiah which Daniel had foretold. Christ referred to these "many antichrists" as the "false christs" in Matt. 24:5 & 24-26, whose supporters would be claiming that they were in the Jerusalem temple's secret chambers. This was where charitable donations for the poor were collected from anonymous donors.
That temple with its "chamber of secrets" has long since been destroyed since AD 70, and along with that destruction, any chance that this prophecy about the "false christs" could possibly be referring to our future.

You seem to continually ignore John's statement in Revelation 12:12 that this "short time" in which Satan was deceiving the nations in great wrath had already begun as John was writing Revelation. That "short time" expired for Satan's existence long, long ago. It did not extend beyond AD 70, the year of Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives, just as He had predicted He would do before that generation had passed away. You don't believe Christ's statements about this in Matt. 16:27-28 and 24:34, but I do.

 

[Red Baker]

Red, I quoted from the context of 2 Thessalonians and Isaiah, and Mark's account of the crucifixion. All of these combined show that "Lawlessness" was scripture's name for the sedition against Rome in the first century that started insurrections against their Roman overlords. The Zealots are not something imaginary. Jesus had a converted Zealot among His twelve disciples (Simon Zelotes).

To continuously laboring to show the many errors of the Preterists, is not allowing me to at least complete Revelation twenty, which I desire to do. First, it was Ghada and his premillennialism, and now it's your Preterist doctrine that is hindering me.

3 R's~the man of sin, or as you call him~"lawlessness" is not a scriptural name for sedition against Rome in the first century~that's heresy, and just another method of deceiving folks concerning the true meaning of 2nd Thessalonians 2. Instead of being the means of shedding light, you are being used to turn men from the truth, that will leave them unprepared for the evil that is prophesied to come upon the church in the latter days of the last days. Again, both the Lord and Paul before either spoke of the last days both gave this warning, that is needed to remind folks of the many ways folks will labor to deceive anyone that will listen!

Matthew 24:4​

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.”

2nd Thessalonians 2:3​

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

You attempting to teach that the man of sin or lawlessness, was a first century false christ is heresy. The man of sin was prophesied by Daniel, and the Lord even said that what he was teaching was prophesied by Daniel first.

Matthew 24:15​

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand”

The abomination that God will make desolate are men in the latter days of this world, who have taken over the temple of God ( or places of worship, called here in Matthew 24 "Judea", where folks went to worship in the OT.)

The abomination of desolation is the same as the man of sin, the same as the antichrist, etc. It is that which is abominable in God's sight, not man's. More on this later, not now.

"They" and "them" were the "many antichrists" which 1 John 2:18 wrote were already among the believers in that generation. "THE Antichrist" was just the first one of those many antichrists who was able to get into the temple, exalting himself as the prophesied Messiah which Daniel had foretold.

So much wrong with just about everything you mentioned. They and them were the man of sin that will take over the professing churches of Christ throughout this world in the latter days just before Christ's coming, which is the subject of Paul's teaching in 2nd Thess. 2. But, before Christ comes, first the man of sin will come in great numbers the like this world has never seen!

Daniel had foretold. Christ referred to these "many antichrists" as the "false christs" in Matt. 24:5 & 24-26,

You misunderstand Christ's meaning in Matthew 24:5.

Matthew 24:5​

“For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

The meaning of this verse is this: These latter day false prophets will come and say that Jesus is the Christ, but the Jesus they, and them, preach~is another jesus, another gospel and another spirit behind it! Joel Osteen said that Jesus is the Christ, yet, he rejects the word of God overall teachings. Benny Hinn said that Jesus is the Christ, yet it is another jesus preached by another spirit which is not of God. Jimmy Swaggart with tears will say that Jesus is the Christ, but we know that he rejects many truths of the word of God, etc. etc. Just becuase they preach that Jesus is the Christ, means very little!

You seem to continually ignore John's statement in Revelation 12:12 that this "short time" in which Satan was deceiving the nations in great wrath had already begun as John was writing Revelation. That "short time" expired for Satan's existence long, long ago. It did not extend beyond AD 70, the year of Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives, just as He had predicted He would do before that generation had passed away. You don't believe Christ's statements about this in Matt. 16:27-28 and 24:34, but I do.

I will post on this later to see who does believe and who are following extra-biblical sources for what they believe and teach. Matthew 24:34 is one long post by itself.

 

[Mr GLee]

Red, I quoted from the context of 2 Thessalonians and Isaiah, and Mark's account of the crucifixion. All of these combined show that "Lawlessness" was scripture's name for the sedition against Rome in the first century that started insurrections against their Roman overlords. The Zealots are not something imaginary. Jesus had a converted Zealot among His twelve disciples (Simon Zelotes).

Paul had told the Thessalonians exactly who that Antichrist and his restrainer were when he had been among them. 2 Thessalonians 2 was Paul's reminder to them of what Paul had told them previously in person (2 Thess. 2:5-7). Those two men were alive back then in Paul's days. There is no way possible for the Man of Lawlessness to have lived beyond that generation, nor his restrainer either. This is not a generic term for sinful mankind, since Paul warned that this "Man of Lawlessness was "coming" - not that this was everyone who has lived under the power of sin ever since Creation. "THE Son of destruction" in 2 Thess. 2:3 is not a generic title for the whole group of sinful mankind lying under the power of sin. It's the definite article referring to a single man.

"Lawlessness "speaks of God perfect law as it is written " to all of humanity that are against all things written in the law and prophets.(sola scriptura)

Paul previously as Saul who served a law of the fathers (oral traditons of men ) murdering the mis percived competition, torturing woman and men who do not serve a "law of the fathers". . . false prophecy as traditions of dying mankind. Again another teaching authority other than sola scriptura called, antichrists. (Acts 22:1-5)

Born again Paul become #1 on the most wanted dead or alive as they judged him with therei law of men (oral trditons) They tried to propve sola scriptura was heresy so they could keep thier own lying wonders.

Acts 24:13-14 AMPC Neither can they present argument or evidence to prove to you what they now bring against me.But this I confess to you, however, that in accordance with the Way [of the Lord], which they call a [heretical, division-producing] sect, I worship (serve) the God of our fathers, still persuaded of the truth of and believing in and placing full confidence in everything laid down in the Law [of Moses] or written in the prophets;

Antichrists' . . a legion of false apostles sent with false prophecy

 

[Red Baker]

You seem to continually ignore John's statement in Revelation 12:12 that this "short time" in which Satan was deceiving the nations in great wrath had already begun as John was writing Revelation. That "short time" expired for Satan's existence long, long ago. It did not extend beyond AD 70, the year of Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives,

I'm not ignoring any scriptures, but take them as a cohesive whole, in order to come to a true understanding of "at hand...little season....short space."..all used by John.

By the time the Pretestist are finished with the word of God and rubber and stamping "fulfilled 70 A.D.!" We are left without a biblical witness of the latter days of the last day of this world.....at least not a true witness from heaven.

It did not extend beyond AD 70, the year of Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives, just as He had predicted He would do before that generation had passed away. You don't believe Christ's statements about this in Matt. 16:27-28 and 24:34, but I do.

First~Matthew 16:27,28~"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

You have a major problem attempting to to prove this was fulfilled 70 A. D. ~ The mount of transfiguration, does not fulfilled Jesus' words as happening in 70 A.D. What happened was Jesus allow his chosen disciples to see a glimpse of his future coming.

2nd Peter 1:11-18~"For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount."

What Peter, James and John saw was a glimpse of Christ's future majesty when the everlasting kingdom comes at his coming at the end of this world.

2 Timothy 4:1​

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;”

This verse along with Matthew 16:27,28 speak of a kingdom that is coming at which time the wicked shall be judged, these things never happened at 70 A.D.

1st Timothy 6:14,15~"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"

Both Peter and Paul knew that they were soon to put off their tabernacle of flesh, and desire that believers after their decreased would continue to fight the good fight of faith long after they were gone. The only coming that they taught other believers was Christ's second coming, which will be visible, a revelation, at the end of this world when the kingdoms of this world would become the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and his elect.

70 A.D. is a lying fable~I have often said and will repeat this once more, if I had never heard of this lying fable, then I would have never found it on the pages of God's word, since it is not there, it has to be force into the scriptures by men void of truth concerning end time prophecy..

This generation...later.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Acts 24:13-14 AMPC Neither can they present argument or evidence to prove to you what they now bring against me.But this I confess to you, however, that in accordance with the Way [of the Lord], which they call a [heretical, division-producing] sect, I worship (serve) the God of our fathers, still persuaded of the truth of and believing in and placing full confidence in everything laid down in the Law [of Moses] or written in the prophets;

That "law" which was present in Christ's days was what the Zealots were aligned against. The nationalistic Zealots abhorred the high priesthood and the religious leaders which had been subjugated to Rome and operated under their oversight in Jerusalem. "Lawlessness" in the first century produced insurrectionists against Rome and against anyone of their own countrymen who favored remaining a subject of Rome, of which Judas the Galilean and Theudas in Acts 5:37 were but two examples. The Egyptian of Acts 21:38 who led a group of 4,000 murderers into the wilderness was also a leader of a sedition against Rome. Barabbas was another Zealot insurrectionist, along with those two thieves which had participated in the sedition with him (Mark 15:7).

The single "Man of Lawlessness" was a Zealot insurrectionist in those first-century days. The Zealots' goal was to have one of their number become a leader of great military might as Daniel's prophesied "Messiah the Prince" who would then overthrow Rome's control of their nation. They totally misunderstood the mission of the Messiah. When Jesus Christ did not fulfill that kind of goal for them, the people of Israel went looking for another Messiah. They denied that Jesus Christ as the Messiah had come in the flesh already (the sign of an antichrist in 2 John 7) and 1 John 4:3), and tried to produce their own substitute Messiah, or "false christs" who would fulfill Daniel's "Messiah the Prince" prophecy.

Those "false christs" were the "many antichrists" which showed up in the first century, which 1 John 2:18-19 said were already among them in that "last hour".

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'm not ignoring any scriptures, but take them as a cohesive whole, in order to come to a true understanding of "at hand...little season....short space."..all used by John.

No, you don't do this. At all. Otherwise, you could acknowledge that a "little season" of Satan's activity on earth is NOT any longer than a "long season" of 40 years of wilderness wanderings for the Israelites, according to how God determines the passage of time in Joshua 24:7.

70 A.D. is a lying fable~I have often said and will repeat this once more, if I had never heard of this lying fable, then I would have never found it on the pages of God's word, since it is not there, it has to be force into the scriptures by men void of truth concerning end time prophecy..

Red, you seem to be permanently stuck in a rut of your own making. One day in glory you will find this out. Unfortunately, you are crippled by your refusal to consider any other version of scripture besides the KJV, which tends to blur the time-relevant terms of scripture which all point to a first-century fulfillment. Nevertheless, there is still plenty of proof for a first-century fulfillment of scripture prophecy, even if you stick to your KJV only.

I understand that if you have invested much time in your studies and written extensively about eschatology that you would be reluctant to discard all that effort. If you want to be like Paul, you would regard those efforts as nothing but dung if the scriptures told a message that was contrary to those conclusions. Personally, I have had to ditch much of what I was told and believed from so-called "authorities" from my infancy upwards to my senior years, because the scriptures themselves are telling me something entirely different. It is a uniform message from beginning to end in the scriptures, with no internal contradictions.

 

[3 Resurrections]

By the time the Pretestist are finished with the word of God and rubber and stamping "fulfilled 70 A.D.!" We are left without a biblical witness of the latter days of the last day of this world.....at least not a true witness from heaven.

This is utterly false. I have written much about how scripture describes the "year to year" progress of human history that would follow Christ's return to the Mount of Olives, as in Zechariah 14:4-5 & 16. I have written about the upcoming transition to the next, 7th millennial period coming in 2033, which is on the very near horizon for us. I have written about the date of Christ final coming in the fall of 3033, which is NEVER discussed by the Full Preterists. I have written what will happen at that final judgment and resurrection for the saints, and the purging of all remaining human wickedness from this planet.

I have also reminded you many times of scriptures' presentation of the optimistic, positive progress of Christ's "stone" kingdom in this world up until the final judgment. The scriptures' confident assurances of the progress of Christ's kingdom in this world (such as the growth of leaven and the mustard seed, and the growing "stone" kingdom, and the increase of Christ's government and of His peace) is contradicted by your own dismal perception of human history's future. You present a defeatist, pessimistic viewpoint, with the Holy Spirit being almost absent from this world's affairs in our future. This is totally opposite to the way scripture presents the incremental growth of the kingdom of God.

In this, you are copying the pre-mil disp. attitude towards future events. God laughs in derision at those wicked men who think they can counter His intentions for this planet and the growth of His kingdom in this world. You should be able to mimic that confidence in God's ability to achieve His goals.

 

[Mr GLee]

That "law" which was present in Christ's days was what the Zealots were aligned against. The nationalistic Zealots abhorred the high priesthood and the religious leaders which had been subjugated to Rome and operated under their oversight in Jerusalem. "Lawlessness" in the first century produced insurrectionists against Rome and against anyone of their own countrymen who favored remaining a subject of Rome, of which Judas the Galilean and Theudas in Acts 5:37 were but two examples. The Egyptian of Acts 21:38 who led a group of 4,000 murderers into the wilderness was also a leader of a sedition against Rome. Barabbas was another Zealot insurrectionist, along with those two thieves which had participated in the sedition with him (Mark 15:7).

The single "Man of Lawlessness" was a Zealot insurrectionist in those first-century days. The Zealots' goal was to have one of their number become a leader of great military might as Daniel's prophesied "Messiah the Prince" who would then overthrow Rome's control of their nation. They totally misunderstood the mission of the Messiah. When Jesus Christ did not fulfill that kind of goal for them, the people of Israel went looking for another Messiah. They denied that Jesus Christ as the Messiah had come in the flesh already (the sign of an antichrist in 2 John 7) and 1 John 4:3), and tried to produce their own substitute Messiah, or "false christs" who would fulfill Daniel's "Messiah the Prince" prophecy.

Those "false christs" were the "many antichrists" which showed up in the first century, which 1 John 2:18-19 said were already among them in that "last hour".

Man of lawlessness any man seduced by the father of lies . Like Peter in Mathew 16.

Satan the spirit of error has no form. . he needs dying flesh and blood to forward his false gospel.

It can affect Rome as well as all the nations of the world. No sign was given to divide the nations.

Jesus said it is a evil generation natural unconverted mankind that does seek after lying signs to wonder after.

The same false anti-christs .Adam and Eve false prophet, false apostles under the influence of the father of lies the spirit of the antichrist. Violated the loving commandment not to add or subtract .(Deuteronomy 4:2).with false prophecy "Neither shall you touch" .

 

[Mr GLee]

No, you don't do this. At all. Otherwise, you could acknowledge that a "little season" of Satan's activity on earth is NOT any longer than a "long season" of 40 years of wilderness wanderings for the Israelites, according to how God determines the passage of time in Joshua 24:7.

That was the time of testing .

The time we are to be concerned with is represented by a thousand years(unknown) in that parable .

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The veil represent the circumcision of our bloody husband Christ the vail was rent from the top (70 feet) there was no Jewish man as King of Kings siting in the Holy of holies

Satan could no longer deceive al the nation of the world that again God is a Jewish man as King of kings. . . the first reformation had come he fell into a bottomless pit . No end in sight.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Man of lawlessness any man seduced by the father of lies . Like Peter in Mathew 16.

That is NOT how Paul described the "Man of Lawlessness" in 2 Thess 2. Paul wrote that this man was "coming", and would "revealed" once his restrainer was "taken out of the way". You are discarding the very particular terms and activities which this single "Man of Lawlessness" would perform by assigning a generic quality to ALL men who ever fell for Satan's deception.

This single "Man of Lawlessness" who rebelled against the Jewish religious leaders and the law was going to show up in the temple of God in Jerusalem, showing and exalting himself as divinity. That temple in Jerusalem is gone. Paul's 2 Thess. 2 prediction had to be fulfilled when there was still a physical temple in Jerusalem in which this "Man of Lawlessness" would perform those actions.

 

[Alive]

According to the NT what is the Temple of God?

 

[Red Baker]

VERSE EIGHT

• "And shall go out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea".

As stated, Satan will once again go forth to deceive the nations from the four quarters of the earth. And note, though Some people would like you to believe that Gog and Magog here represent Russia, or some other nation, this is an untenable position once it is carefully compared with the Bible. And you have to go no further than this verse itself. It tells us clearly who Gog and Magog here represent. It says they are "The nations which are in the four quarters of the earth". It doesn't say Russia, or Libya, or any other nation. The Biblical definition is that, it is The nations or gentiles from the four quarters of the earth. In other words, all the peoples of the world. The number four is used in scripture to symbolize universality. All the gentiles coming against the Israel of God. When Satan is loosed, he will go forth deceiving the gentiles of the world, to gather them together to battle the Saints, the same as he was doing when Christ came and bound him, so that He could build up Israel. {HE that hath ears to hear, let him hear}. These people of the world who Satan will deceive, are typified, or Signified by the Gog and Magog of biblical history because of what we read of them in the Old Testament. You might want to read Ezekiel Chapter 39. Gog and Magog came up to take the kingdom of Israel, and the Lord made an end of them there, leaving them for buzzard meat. And the Lord says that it was because of the iniquity of Israel that the Lord hid His face and that they went into captivity. ..And so it is the same picture for these in Revelation Chapter 20 who come up to fight the Faithful Church (the camp of the Saints), the Israel of God. It is because of the iniquity and unfaithfulness of the Church Israel that these will come up and trample under foot the house of God. Deceived of Satan, these false prophets, like the false prophets of Old Testament Israel, will leave the congregation desolate, but for the remnant chosen by Grace. But in the end it will be the same as it was for Gog and Magog. They will be destroyed of God's judgment from heaven.

We should take note of a few important things about this verse, and also verse 3. It Tells us something clearly. Namely, (verse 3) Satan "was" going forth deceiving the nations or Gentiles before Christ came and bound him so he could not do it for this time period. That is a little tidbit that the Premillennialist theorists would rather not consider. The fact that not only will Satan be loosed, but that he was "already loose" doing the same thing (deceiving the gentiles) before He was bound, throws their theories into confusion where it belongs Because it was for this reason that he was bound in the first place. Note "carefully" the language that he is bound "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:". Clear language that he was deceiving the nations greatly before being bound, and he was bound that this deceiving stop for this 1000 years~to a great degree. But that is the thing that is unaccountable in their theory, because their theory is false! That Satan was bound so that the fullness of Gentiles (nations) be come in, is an integral part of the Gospel message. There is no other reason for him to be bound. i.e., so he could not hurt the New Covenant Church until it is completed, only then is he then "again" loosed, which is the prophesy of the end time.

And you may note once again other inconsistencies of the premillennialist doctrines. They reject Satan as having been bound at the cross because they say, "if so, Satan wouldn't be doing such evil now in the world". And yet they cannot explain how before he is bound, what prevents him from doing such great evil in the world? He would have had to been bound before, "ELSE" He was loosed! Once again, it makes no sense. For if God was preventing Satan from bringing about this great tribulation period or time of evil all this time from the cross until now, then Satan was bound or restrained before they claim he was bound or restrained in their theory.

 

[Red Baker]

These Theologians simple cannot cohesively argue this contradiction of how Satan being loose before he was bound, and yet he was bound from bringing the great tribulation for 2000 years (since the cross). His being loose before He was bound doesn't fit into their eschatological Theories. For when he was loose (before he was bound) why wasn't there this great righteous period they speak of? Again, it's totally inconsistent and warped! The fact is, consistency of scripture demands that Satan be loose deceiving the nations twice. Once before he was bound, and then after he is loosed. Where is the other time of trouble and tribulation for the Church when Satan was loose? The Only answer is, before the Cross, when the Kingdom of God suffered violence (Matt. 11:12), and before Jerusalem was comforted as her warfare was accomplished and iniquity pardoned. And according to scripture it was the cross of Christ which brought an end to that! The congregation travailed and pained to be delivered (Revelation 12) before Christ went to the cross. This was Satan's hour, and he was destroyed (brought down to idleness -Heb 2) by the death of Christ, and salvation gone out to the nations or Gentiles. That's not speculation, that's clearly written in the scriptures.

If we insist on claiming the binding is future, then they must show two separate tribulation periods where Satan is going forth deceiving the nations, and a period of his having been bound in between. That would be some "trick" as God doesn't talk about any time of trouble, except before the Cross, and the great tribulation near the end of the world. ..which of course tends to support the binding of Satan which takes place at the Cross, which they reject! This is why the time before Christ, so consistently mirrors the time near the return of the Lord. It's God breathed!

If Satan had been loose all this time (2000 years have passed), and had not been bound, this deceiving that takes place near the end of the world (when Satan is Loosed) would have already taken place. The only alternative is to believe that Satan has been restraining "himself" ever since the cross? ..which is ridiculous! God is restraining him, God hath bound him that the great tribulation period couldn't occur until He loosed the seals. But don't listen to me, search the scriptures to see if this is a true statement. Examine the question. Look at what God says about this time of Great tribulation.

Matthew 24:22

• "and except those days should be shortened, there should NO FLESH BE SAVED; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Do we really understand what that means? That means that at this time Satan has deceived the world so greatly that if the days weren't shorted, there would be no true Christian left on earth with true knowledge (salvation in a practical sense) at the Lord's return. All flesh on earth would have been deceived. So do we now understand just "why" Satan had to be bound so this would not happen until the Lord built His Church? If Satan was not bound at the cross, this would have taken place. It is only that binding that keeps this from happening until the appointed time. He could not deceive the nations like this until near the end when the fulness of Gentiles be come into Israel, their testimony is near finished (Rev. 11:7). Then is he released. And the reason he is loosed (which gets lost in the shuffle) is that the reason for his binding (to Spoil his house) has been completed. All Israel is Saved!

Then will Satan marshal his army of deceivers and false prophets in a worldwide assault on the camp of the Saints (encampment of the Sanctified) and trample the Holy City of God under foot. And this tribulation is greater than any that has even been in the world before, or will be again "because" of God's removal of His hand of restraint! And the deceiving of Satan is so great, that except those days shall be shortened, there would be no true believer left in the flesh saved with true knowledge. The victory will be our Lord's, not Satan's. There "will be" a Rapture, and there will be those changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye. All will be fulfilled as it is Written.

Symbolism
4 Quarters of the earth = Universality
Gog and Magog = Satan, prince of this world, and His
Battle = Men at war with God's word

The point of verse 8 is that Satan marshals the gentiles to warfare against spiritual Israel, the encampment of the Saints, and as Gog and magog came upon Israel, so these led by their prince Satan come against the Israel of God.

Summary:

Satan will blind the nations again in darkness and deceive them to oppose Christ and His church. Instead of worrying about the geography of “four quarters,” see Satan’s worldwide evil influence. Instead of worrying about Gog and Magog, see the Bible for God’s enemies (Gen 10:2; Ezek 38:2). Instead of thinking this is Russia, China, Iraq, or the PLO, note that it describes earthly nations! These ferocious Gentile enemies persecuted Israel, but now symbolize the church’s enemies. Should we use the number here literally or figuratively? It is simple hyperbole of a great multitude. Why think very far beyond the perilous times of compromising Christianity (II Tim 3:1 – 4:5)? What is this battle? It is a spiritual battle of some sort against the saints of Jesus Christ on earth, but since the Bible does not give us any details, we rely on the epistles of Paul and Peter for warnings.

 

[Mr GLee]

That is NOT how Paul described the "Man of Lawlessness" in 2 Thess 2. Paul wrote that this man was "coming", and would "revealed" once his restrainer was "taken out of the way". You are discarding the very particular terms and activities which this single "Man of Lawlessness" would perform by assigning a generic quality to ALL men who ever fell for Satan's deception.

This single "Man of Lawlessness" who rebelled against the Jewish religious leaders and the law was going to show up in the temple of God in Jerusalem, showing and exalting himself as divinity. That temple in Jerusalem is gone. Paul's 2 Thess. 2 prediction had to be fulfilled when there was still a physical temple in Jerusalem in which this "Man of Lawlessness" would perform those actions.

Hi thanks I would offer.

The promised three days and nights demonstration of the lamb slain from the foundation .The six day Christ did work out our salvation.

Satan was revealed .The father striking the Son of man Jesus bruising his heal crushing the head of Satan the serpent. Performed by the mutual work of two empowered by one (invisible).. . .the original dynamic dual. LOL (Lone Ranger with Tonto 2nd place. Batman with Robin 3rd , Casper with Wendy 4th etc

 

[3 Resurrections]

According to the NT what is the Temple of God?

According to Christ in Matthew 24:5 & 24-26, there would be false prophets supporting those "false christs", claiming that they were in the "secret chambers". These "chamber of secrets" were in the Old Jerusalem temple building, as a collection point for anonymous donations to the poor, which were dispensed at intervals, also anonymously. Another chamber was the collection room for donations that supported temple upkeep. Once that Jerusalem temple with its "chamber of secrets" was destroyed in AD 70, this gets rid of any future fulfillment of this prediction for those "false christs" by Christ in Matthew 24.

You are trying to mix up the description of the spiritual New Jerusalem temple under the New Covenant that Christ set up with the prophecies regarding the destruction of the physical Old Jerusalem temple. These two different temples existed together for a time back in the first century, but with the Old Jerusalem temple and its dead, obsolete system scheduled for annihilation in that first-century generation, as well as the destruction of the "Man of Lawlessness" who tried to exalt himself by presenting himself in that physical temple as Daniel's prophesied Messiah, the King of the Jews.

 

[3 Resurrections]

These Theologians simple cannot cohesively argue this contradiction of how Satan being loose before he was bound, and yet he was bound from bringing the great tribulation for 2000 years (since the cross). His being loose before He was bound doesn't fit into their eschatological Theories. For when he was loose (before he was bound) why wasn't there this great righteous period they speak of? Again, it's totally inconsistent and warped! The fact is, consistency of scripture demands that Satan be loose deceiving the nations twice. Once before he was bound, and then after he is loosed. Where is the other time of trouble and tribulation for the Church when Satan was loose? The Only answer is, before the Cross, when the Kingdom of God suffered violence (Matt. 11:12), and before Jerusalem was comforted as her warfare was accomplished and iniquity pardoned. And according to scripture it was the cross of Christ which brought an end to that! The congregation travailed and pained to be delivered (Revelation 12) before Christ went to the cross. This was Satan's hour, and he was destroyed (brought down to idleness -Heb 2) by the death of Christ, and salvation gone out to the nations or Gentiles. That's not speculation, that's clearly written in the scriptures.

If we insist on claiming the binding is future, then they must show two separate tribulation periods where Satan is going forth deceiving the nations, and a period of his having been bound in between. That would be some "trick" as God doesn't talk about any time of trouble, except before the Cross, and the great tribulation near the end of the world. ..which of course tends to support the binding of Satan which takes place at the Cross, which they reject! This is why the time before Christ, so consistently mirrors the time near the return of the Lord. It's God breathed!

If Satan had been loose all this time (2000 years have passed), and had not been bound, this deceiving that takes place near the end of the world (when Satan is Loosed) would have already taken place. The only alternative is to believe that Satan has been restraining "himself" ever since the cross? ..which is ridiculous! God is restraining him, God hath bound him that the great tribulation period couldn't occur until He loosed the seals. But don't listen to me, search the scriptures to see if this is a true statement. Examine the question. Look at what God says about this time of Great tribulation.

Matthew 24:22

• "and except those days should be shortened, there should NO FLESH BE SAVED; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Do we really understand what that means? That means that at this time Satan has deceived the world so greatly that if the days weren't shorted, there would be no true Christian left on earth with true knowledge (salvation in a practical sense) at the Lord's return. All flesh on earth would have been deceived. So do we now understand just "why" Satan had to be bound so this would not happen until the Lord built His Church? If Satan was not bound at the cross, this would have taken place. It is only that binding that keeps this from happening until the appointed time. He could not deceive the nations like this until near the end when the fulness of Gentiles be come into Israel, their testimony is near finished (Rev. 11:7). Then is he released. And the reason he is loosed (which gets lost in the shuffle) is that the reason for his binding (to Spoil his house) has been completed. All Israel is Saved!

Then will Satan marshal his army of deceivers and false prophets in a worldwide assault on the camp of the Saints (encampment of the Sanctified) and trample the Holy City of God under foot. And this tribulation is greater than any that has even been in the world before, or will be again "because" of God's removal of His hand of restraint! And the deceiving of Satan is so great, that except those days shall be shortened, there would be no true believer left in the flesh saved with true knowledge. The victory will be our Lord's, not Satan's. There "will be" a Rapture, and there will be those changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye. All will be fulfilled as it is Written.



The point of verse 8 is that Satan marshals the gentiles to warfare against spiritual Israel, the encampment of the Saints, and as Gog and magog came upon Israel, so these led by their prince Satan come against the Israel of God.

Summary:

Satan will blind the nations again in darkness and deceive them to oppose Christ and His church. Instead of worrying about the geography of “four quarters,” see Satan’s worldwide evil influence. Instead of worrying about Gog and Magog, see the Bible for God’s enemies (Gen 10:2; Ezek 38:2). Instead of thinking this is Russia, China, Iraq, or the PLO, note that it describes earthly nations! These ferocious Gentile enemies persecuted Israel, but now symbolize the church’s enemies. Should we use the number here literally or figuratively? It is simple hyperbole of a great multitude. Why think very far beyond the perilous times of compromising Christianity (II Tim 3:1 – 4:5)? What is this battle? It is a spiritual battle of some sort against the saints of Jesus Christ on earth, but since the Bible does not give us any details, we rely on the epistles of Paul and Peter for warnings.

A river of commentary above, but none of it can counter John's statement in Revelation 12:12. "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil HAS COME DOWN unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a SHORT TIME."

That was a warning from John to his first-century readers about Satan's THEN PRESENT "SHORT TIME" of already having being loosed on earth in the first century before John even put quill to parchment to write the book of Revelation.

Satan's "short time" of his deception of the nations being loosed after the millennium ENDED took place long, long ago in the first century. That "short time" did not last very long at all...certainly not until our own time and our future, some 2,000 years and more down the road.