Two of each key eschatology term, but one is abandoned!

[TMSO]

The gifts of God are irrevocable not the designation of a race-nation. We know this from the final curse declared on Israel in Acts 3 if they did not recognize the new Moses.

I cannot write out 150 pages so please see my book and report after that. The Covenant Revolt. At Amazon.

Again, if you understand what Paul is saying, He is saying that God's choosing of the nation of Israel was a calling. And the calling is irrevocable. They would always be Israel, the chosen people of God. It doesn't speak to the state of the people, other then they are chosen of God from all the other nations out there. There is no assumed "to salvation" anywhere. Just that God has called them to be separate from all the other nations. And that calling is irrevocable. It doesn't speak to consequence, or, again, the state of the people, as to saved or unsaved, believer or unbeliever. It is a corporal calling. You forget Moses' song, which God said was very important. It ends with the salvation of Israel. It ends with
"Rejoice, you nations, with His people;
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And will return vengeance on His adversaries,
And will atone for His land and His people.”"

Why did Moses have a song?
"16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to [h]lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the prostitute with the foreign gods of the land into the midst of which they are going, and they will abandon Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then My anger will be kindled against them on that day, and I will abandon them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will find them; so they will say on that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have found us?’ 18 But I will assuredly hide My face on that day because of all the evil that they will have done, for they will have turned away to other gods.

19 “Now then, write this song for yourselves, and teach it to the sons of Israel; put it [i]on their lips, so that this song may be a witness for Me against the sons of Israel. 20 For when I bring them into the land flowing with milk and honey, which I swore to their fathers, and they eat and are satisfied and become [j]prosperous, then they will turn to other gods and serve them, and spurn Me and break My covenant. 21 Then it will come about, when many evils and troubles find them, that this song will testify before them as a witness (for it shall not be forgotten from the mouth of their [k]descendants); for I know their inclination which they are [l]developing today, before I bring them into the land which I swore.”"

However, what did God say previously?
"30 “So it will be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have placed before you, and you [a]call them to mind in all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and [b]obey Him with all your heart and soul in accordance with everything that I am commanding you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore [c]you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of your scattered countrymen are at the [d]ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will [e]bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will be good to you and make you more numerous than your fathers."

"6 “Moreover, the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the hearts of your [f]descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live. 7 And the Lord your God will [g]inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you will again [h]obey the Lord, and [i]follow all His commandments which I am commanding you today. 9 Then the Lord your God will prosper you [j]abundantly in every work of your hand, in the [k]children of your womb, the [l]offspring of your cattle, and in the [m]produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; 10 [n]if you [o]obey the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, [p]if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul."

All of this is deep, and complicated. As Paul said in answer to His question "Has God then rejected Israel?" Paul says no, may it never be. And this under the inspiration of God. He is also the one who said that it is because the calling is irrevocable.

The church has an unfortunate history of deep antisemitism and hatred of the Jews. They have cause and reason, but it never died. (The heavy persecution of the Christians in the 1st and 2nd centuries is due to the Jews...so... reasons.) The Jews refused to tell Rome that Christianity is a branch of Judaism, in which it would have been recognized by Rome, and the exercise of that faith would be permitted. Judaism was the only other faith that Rome allowed outside of the worship of the Roman pantheon of gods, and the worship of the Emperor/Caesar.

Luther had a soft approach because he sought, through his congenial approach, to convert the Jews to Christianity. He had nothing good to say about Jews in Judaism. Nothing good at all. He had no tolerance, as they came to him at the diet, and he did not show them any tolerance at that time. Why? They weren't there to convert, but to get Luther to converse with them. Since it wasn't for conversion, there was no tolerance shown.

 

[EarlyActs]

Your perspective is too narrow. God determined all that would happen in the world. God made a promise to Eve that the redemption of the world would come through her seed. That promise can be seen through God saving Noah from the flood, for if God destroyed all of humanity, or all of creation, at that time, then He lied to Eve. It was ALL planned. However, the Bible tells us the story in human terms, so we don't see that clearly without stepping back. We see deeper into God's plan with Abraham, and then with Isaac. We get a portrayal of Jesus sacrifice, when God commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Isaac is on the altar and Abraham is ready to sacrifice his son because he fully believed God. Even if Abraham killed Isaac, Abraham fully believed that his descendants would come through Isaac, that God would raise Isaac from the dead to fulfill God's promises. (Again showing another side to the flood and Noah's salvation from it in connection with God's promise to Eve.)

God then chose the nation of Israel to rule, but the heart of the choice is that His salvation would come from His chosen people, which is Israel. The Messiah would come from them. So God gives them a sacrificial system that is but a dim glimpse of all that Jesus would be. Everything planned out precisely, determined exactly, before the world even began. God planned out the salvation of Israel. God prophesied this through the Old Testament prophecies and ultimately through Daniel's 70 weeks. Israel's ultimate salvation comes at the end of the 70 weeks. However, we have a break at the time of the Messiah being cut off... after the 69th week. How do we know there is a break or a gap. After the 69th week goes from the Messiah being cut off, through the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, until he who is to come strengthens a covenant with the many, then breaks the covenant, and is then destroyed at the end of the 70th week.

Each week is supposed to be 7 years long. However, from the time the Messiah is cut off (Jesus is crucified), until the destruction of temple is well over 7 years. So... there must be a gap. The question is... how long. Not to mention why? Why is easy. The results of the 70 weeks are supposed to be because of their Messiah. However, they rejected the Messiah and cut Him off. What does Paul say happened because of this? By their disobedience, salvation came to the Gentiles. So what happened? The focus of prophecy, of history, switched from the Jews to the Gentiles. However, the 70 weeks is only supposed to be the Jews. So we have a gap. Like half time for a one hour football game. That 30 minutes (superbowl) is not considered part of the playtime of the game. The focus is not on play. So the football game is still, technically one hour. So, since the focus moved from the Jews to the Gentiles, the time... the play clock is on pause. Consider that we are talking about time, and scripture speaks of the focus on the Gentiles as the time of the Gentiles. So, again, the focus is not on the Jews, but the Gentiles. The prophecy of the 70 weeks is not violated. There is one week left, which begins when the covenant (Abrahamic accords perhaps) is strengthened. Then the final countdown to the fulfillment of the 70 weeks prophecy continues. The focus moves back to Israel and the Jews.

It is that moment which Paul speaks as "the fulness of the Gentiles" coming in. At that time, God now starts dealing with Israel again. The focus moves from the Gentiles back to Israel. The partial blindness/hardness Paul speaks of will be removed. (I believe the reason he says partial blindness/hardness is because Jews are still being saved, however, it is at the individual level, not corporal.) The last 7 years are the tribulation that pretrib premillennialists speak of. However, it is the last half of the week, the last 3 1/2 weeks that are the Great Tribulation that the early church father's spoke of. They didn't speak of the 7 years as a whole, just the last 3 1/2 years. And they marked the start of that as when the Antichrist steps into the temple and declares himself to be God, outlawing all other religions, and demanding worship solely of him. Right in the holy of holies. Utter blasphemy of God, which Daniel says is the characteristic of the fourth and final beast.

This whole thing is so much more complicated, however, the point is the overall design is that, not what you said. God knew they wouldn't do it. It was never part of the design. The command is, however, God already knew they would never do it, because He determined that. [See... it is very complicated.]

Anyone who reads Dan 9 and thinks it is about Israel's salvation has completely missed the point and has misconstrued it. They have also missed New Testament history, how that generation ends. They have also missed the curse of Acts 3 for not recognizing the New Moses.

I was referring to people who grab the newspaper and say 'God said this would happen' only to have to have revise it the following month. There is no question that the 2nd coming will take place.

 

[EarlyActs]

God's choosing of the nation of Israel

God chose them for the mission of the Gospel. They failed utterly when Messiah came. The olive tree analogy is perfectly clear: believers stand by faith, and God does not deal with race-nations. In fact, Mt 22's vineyard parable makes it clear that the believers are a new nation.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jacob was not a usurper. In fact, Jacob's name was changed to Israel. God did that. All of Israel were descendants of Abraham, physically. However, only some were descendants of Abraham by faith, that is spiritual descendants. Just what are these spiritual descendants? Those, who like Abraham, looked forward to Christ in faith.

Actually the word Christian first showed up in Antioch, and it was a disparaging term. However, due to its meaning "follower of Christ", believers accepted the name.

I would agree. All of Israel is not born again Israel as the bride of Christ. In the same way a Jew is not one outwardly according to the flesh but is one born again inwardly, whose praise is of God ,not of men .

I have heard and believed the name was more of disparaging term. Quite popular in Christian circles, giving some a feeling of being persecuted

But it seem to destroy the meaning the Father named her in Acts, Christian propmised in Isaiah 62.

The Holy Spirit throughout the Bible uses a demonym; a word that identifies a group of people (inhabitants, residents, natives) in relation to a particular place. Like Nicolaitans a city named after the founder. Nicodenmus ,Phillipe named after it founder Philp etc

Christian. . . literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ named after its founder and husband Christ"

I would think a more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations. The meaning of the (Christian) a gospel blessing it was robbed and turned into a tool false persecutions . Taking away the glory of God who named His bride Christian

Names matter believers can "make it great again " with the voice of trump

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[EarlyActs]

Just saving this as I have no other handy way to save it:

Our year 2000 was 5760 on the Hebrew Calendar. Rabbi Yose Ben Halafta (d 160). 164 years was left out purposely to make the Daniel 9:25 prophecy point to Simon Bar Kockba instead of Jesus.

 

[EarlyActs]

Just saving this as I have no other handy way to save it:

Our year 2000 was 5760 on the Hebrew Calendar. Rabbi Yose Ben Halafta (d 160). 164 years was left out purposely to make the Daniel 9:25 prophecy point to Simon Bar Kockba instead of Jesus.

 

[TMSO]

Anyone who reads Dan 9 and thinks it is about Israel's salvation has completely missed the point and has misconstrued it. They have also missed New Testament history, how that generation ends. They have also missed the curse of Acts 3 for not recognizing the New Moses.

I was referring to people who grab the newspaper and say 'God said this would happen' only to have to have revise it the following month. There is no question that the 2nd coming will take place.

What is the prophecy of the 70 weeks about? An answer, a commanded answer to Daniel's prayer about Israel and himself. What was Daniel asking for? Salvation. Forgiveness of the sin, and trespasses of Israel. What answer did Daniel receive, commanded to Gabriel by God Himself? 70 weeks. 70 weeks to bring an end to all God's dealings with Israel. The trespass will be finished, the end of sin being made, the bringing in of everlasting righteousness, etc. If that does not point towards a final restitution, a final reconciliation between God and Israel, I don't know what does. Some seem to have this issue where the cutting off of the Messiah obviously speaks to Jesus crucifixion. This happens at the end of the 69th week. Up to this point, God is clear that it is 70 weeks. Not 69 weeks and another 5-7 weeks. 70 weeks. 70 sets of 7 years. So at the end of the 69th week (not the beginning of the 70th week) we have the Messiah cut off, and we have Rome coming and destroying the city and temple. The 70th week has not even come up yet, and they just covered over 35 years with just "at the end of the 69th week". A blatant gap. The 70th week starts with this prince strengthening a covenant with the many, and then violating that covenant 3 1/2 years later. How does the final generation of Israel end? Read the last few chapters of Zechariah.

Acts 3 "11 While he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the [c]portico named Solomon’s, completely astonished. 12 But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His [d]servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14 But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 but put to death the [e]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, [f]a fact to which we are witnesses. 16 And on the basis of faith in His name, it is [g]the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

17 “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers also did. 18 But the things which God previously announced by the mouths of all the prophets, that His [h]Christ would suffer, He has fulfilled in this way. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the [j]period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times. 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your countrymen; to Him you shall listen regarding everything He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel and his successors onward, have also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 God raised up His [k]Servant for you first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

So, looking at this passage, God says through Peter that He knows they acted in ignorance, just as their rulers did. Of course God knows this. God also says, through Peter, that He fulfilled Old Testament prophecy by using Israel to reject Christ. "He has fulfilled in this way" that is, through the actions carried out in ignorance. So God will forgive them if they repent and turn to Him. Peter says do this that Jesus second coming may happen. He is also clear that Christ was appointed for... Israel and the Jews. That is God's/Peter's only audience here. Cornelius is still quite a few chapters away. What does God also exclaim to Israel through Peter? It is you, Israel/Jews who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers. God raised up His Servent for Israel/Jews FIRST.

I don't put date on anything. I recognize things that could make this a parable of the fig moment, but there is no guarantee of that. Perhaps a reason why Jesus gave the parable of the bridesmaids. Bring extra oil. We can't/don't know when the time is, but the reason why the bridesmaids were out in the first place was they knew He was on the way. In connection to the Olivet Discourse, they knew that summer was coming. They recognized the signs of the coming season, during which, at any time, the groom would appear. I am watching closely, because a lot of things are lining up (again), but much closer to what prophecy literally says. There are prophecies in Revelation that could not be fulfilled literally until the past decade or so. Now, prophecies that were believed impossible to be fulfilled literally, can be fulfilled literally. There are still a few missing pieces, however, given the circumstances of the day, it sometimes feels like those pieces won't be missing for much longer. It is all a watch and wait moment, as we don't know the day or time. However, we can recognize the coming season, hence the parable of the fig tree.

 

[EarlyActs]

What is the prophecy of the 70 weeks about? An answer, a commanded answer to Daniel's prayer about Israel and himself. What was Daniel asking for? Salvation. Forgiveness of the sin, and trespasses of Israel. What answer did Daniel receive, commanded to Gabriel by God Himself? 70 weeks. 70 weeks to bring an end to all God's dealings with Israel. The trespass will be finished, the end of sin being made, the bringing in of everlasting righteousness, etc. If that does not point towards a final restitution, a final reconciliation between God and Israel, I don't know what does. Some seem to have this issue where the cutting off of the Messiah obviously speaks to Jesus crucifixion. This happens at the end of the 69th week. Up to this point, God is clear that it is 70 weeks. Not 69 weeks and another 5-7 weeks. 70 weeks. 70 sets of 7 years. So at the end of the 69th week (not the beginning of the 70th week) we have the Messiah cut off, and we have Rome coming and destroying the city and temple. The 70th week has not even come up yet, and they just covered over 35 years with just "at the end of the 69th week". A blatant gap. The 70th week starts with this prince strengthening a covenant with the many, and then violating that covenant 3 1/2 years later. How does the final generation of Israel end? Read the last few chapters of Zechariah.

Acts 3 "11 While he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the [c]portico named Solomon’s, completely astonished. 12 But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His [d]servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14 But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 but put to death the [e]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, [f]a fact to which we are witnesses. 16 And on the basis of faith in His name, it is [g]the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

17 “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers also did. 18 But the things which God previously announced by the mouths of all the prophets, that His [h]Christ would suffer, He has fulfilled in this way. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the [j]period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times. 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your countrymen; to Him you shall listen regarding everything He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel and his successors onward, have also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 God raised up His [k]Servant for you first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

So, looking at this passage, God says through Peter that He knows they acted in ignorance, just as their rulers did. Of course God knows this. God also says, through Peter, that He fulfilled Old Testament prophecy by using Israel to reject Christ. "He has fulfilled in this way" that is, through the actions carried out in ignorance. So God will forgive them if they repent and turn to Him. Peter says do this that Jesus second coming may happen. He is also clear that Christ was appointed for... Israel and the Jews. That is God's/Peter's only audience here. Cornelius is still quite a few chapters away. What does God also exclaim to Israel through Peter? It is you, Israel/Jews who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers. God raised up His Servent for Israel/Jews FIRST.

I don't put date on anything. I recognize things that could make this a parable of the fig moment, but there is no guarantee of that. Perhaps a reason why Jesus gave the parable of the bridesmaids. Bring extra oil. We can't/don't know when the time is, but the reason why the bridesmaids were out in the first place was they knew He was on the way. In connection to the Olivet Discourse, they knew that summer was coming. They recognized the signs of the coming season, during which, at any time, the groom would appear. I am watching closely, because a lot of things are lining up (again), but much closer to what prophecy literally says. There are prophecies in Revelation that could not be fulfilled literally until the past decade or so. Now, prophecies that were believed impossible to be fulfilled literally, can be fulfilled literally. There are still a few missing pieces, however, given the circumstances of the day, it sometimes feels like those pieces won't be missing for much longer. It is all a watch and wait moment, as we don't know the day or time. However, we can recognize the coming season, hence the parable of the fig tree.

Dan 9 is clearly about the destruction of Israel in some 500 years. Messiah would also come in that time and successfully accomplish everything in v 24.

 

[TMSO]

Dan 9 is clearly about the destruction of Israel in some 500 years. Messiah would also come in that time and successfully accomplish everything in v 24.

So you are saying that God's calling is revocable, in direct contradiction of God's statement which is directly opposite? God says that the calling is irrevocable. If Israel is destroyed, as you say Daniel 9 is clear about, then what does that say of God? The destruction is of Jerusalem and the temple, not of Israel. Israel is dispersed (diaspora) and is not a nation until it becomes a nation in 1948. (Which is apparently a literal fulfillment of prophecy again, right down to the timeline. If you take God's judgement through Ezra and multiply it by 7, as God promised in Deuteronomy, and work out those days, that timeline ends in 1948.

 

[EarlyActs]

So you are saying that God's calling is revocable, in direct contradiction of God's statement which is directly opposite? God says that the calling is irrevocable. If Israel is destroyed, as you say Daniel 9 is clear about, then what does that say of God? The destruction is of Jerusalem and the temple, not of Israel. Israel is dispersed (diaspora) and is not a nation until it becomes a nation in 1948. (Which is apparently a literal fulfillment of prophecy again, right down to the timeline. If you take God's judgement through Ezra and multiply it by 7, as God promised in Deuteronomy, and work out those days, that timeline ends in 1948.

See Acts 3. Anyone who does not accept Jesus as the new Moses is ‘appalling disinherited.’

Paul did not mean the race-nation in Rom 11. Nor in the olive tree analogy, where we stand or lose by faith or lack of.

The promise of the Gospel was always to those in Christ, Gal 3. No matter race, class, gender, economic status.

 

[TMSO]

See Acts 3. Anyone who does not accept Jesus as the new Moses is ‘appalling disinherited.’

Paul did not mean the race-nation in Rom 11. Nor in the olive tree analogy, where we stand or lose by faith or lack of.

The promise of the Gospel was always to those in Christ, Gal 3. No matter race, class, gender, economic status.

Jesus made it clear that this was not the case. Yes, in the universal understanding of God it was always universal, for all mankind. (Not salvation, just to hear the gospel.) However, Jesus was clear that at the beginning (for the purposes of God's creation, and election), the promise of the gospel was for the Jews. He said that the Father had sent Him for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to the Cushite woman. He did not ignore faith, which stood against the unbelief of Israel, but at that time, the gospel was for the Jews only. When you read Paul in Romans, he explains that it was always God's plan for it to be universal through the rejection of Israel. When it came to the gospel going to the Gentiles, Jesus called them another flock that is not His. He would make them His, and gather them in as well. In the church there is unity. Outside of the church... not so much. It is in the church where the differences are removed.

 

[Mr GLee]

So I oppose Judaic eschatology, but I am not anti-semitic and see no connection. If modern Israel got its place surreptitiously then that is another matter again. I am a historian first, then a theologian. I have also found that Judaic eschatology already had a 'times of the Gentiles' and it may have been correct--but irresolvable with a permanent Jerusalem Davidic king: it simply meant that after Messiah came, the Gentiles were to be reached with his message.

What I can tell you is that there are "Messianic" Jews today who have personally treated me like Acts 10-11, and a friend recently related that the MJ group on his college campus told people not to read Galatians!

Amen no connection .

Do you have a understanding to the phrase "time of the gentiles"? it has? it is ? , or will ???

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus made it clear that this was not the case. Yes, in the universal understanding of God it was always universal, for all mankind. (Not salvation, just to hear the gospel.) However, Jesus was clear that at the beginning (for the purposes of God's creation, and election), the promise of the gospel was for the Jews. He said that the Father had sent Him for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to the Cushite woman. He did not ignore faith, which stood against the unbelief of Israel, but at that time, the gospel was for the Jews only. When you read Paul in Romans, he explains that it was always God's plan for it to be universal through the rejection of Israel. When it came to the gospel going to the Gentiles, Jesus called them another flock that is not His. He would make them His, and gather them in as well. In the church there is unity. Outside of the church... not so much. It is in the church where the differences are removed.

He said that the Father had sent Him for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to the Cushite woman. calling the Cushite woman the house of Israel or the bride of Christ the church.

Two things Not all Israel is born again Israel and a Jew outward according the flesh is not a inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ also called today a Christians .

Romans 9:6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 2:28-29King James Version For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It would seem some of the outward Jews were trying to enter as if they were inward born again, Christians. . some did repent . No DNA needed

Revelation 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[EarlyActs]

Jesus made it clear that this was not the case. Yes, in the universal understanding of God it was always universal, for all mankind. (Not salvation, just to hear the gospel.) However, Jesus was clear that at the beginning (for the purposes of God's creation, and election), the promise of the gospel was for the Jews. He said that the Father had sent Him for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to the Cushite woman. He did not ignore faith, which stood against the unbelief of Israel, but at that time, the gospel was for the Jews only. When you read Paul in Romans, he explains that it was always God's plan for it to be universal through the rejection of Israel. When it came to the gospel going to the Gentiles, Jesus called them another flock that is not His. He would make them His, and gather them in as well. In the church there is unity. Outside of the church... not so much. It is in the church where the differences are removed.

What is the this of your first line?

He made it very clear all through that salvation was for all mankind, not a contingency or after thought. What he wanted Israel to do was to be its main missionaries, and failure to do so would ruin the country. It did. It was the colosssl catastrophe of that generation.

 

[TMSO]

He said that the Father had sent Him for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to the Cushite woman. calling the Cushite woman the house of Israel or the bride of Christ the church.

NO!!!! THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL!!!! The Cushite woman was a Gentile. Jesus was treating her as God would have the Jews treat Gentiles. He wouldn't even speak to her, and was going to pass her by. Jesus was first sent solely to the Jews. Paul is clear on this. It isn't until after the Jews reject their Messiah, that Peter is sent to Cornelius, and God reveals the mystery that was veiled in the Old Testament, the church. The church isn't even BORN in this world until the day of Pentecost. It is the coming of the Holy Spirit to the Jews that marks the birth of the church. This is why what Peter says to Cornelius is so important and has so much impact. The Jews believed that they were the church solely, and that the Gentiles would be another group. A different gospel, a different way to God. However, when Peter went to Cornelius, God defied all human intuition, and gave the Gentiles the same exact Spirit that was given to the Jews. They spoke in tongues, just like the Jews. Look at how Peter presented the thought of the Jews changed with this revelation of God. Who would forbid these the water, who received the same Spirit as us?

God showed the Jews that the same gospel message was for the Gentiles also. There would be one church, united in one Spirit, by which both Jews and Gentiles could approach the throne of grace. Peter argued this point at the church council in Acts. The church is one, and the church is not found in the law, but in the Spirit. Do not put the unbearable burden that belongs to the Jews, onto the Gentiles. That isn't what the church is about. James final response to the Gentiles as far as the church and following Christ was concerned was that if they flee immorality and avoid meat sacrificed to idols, it will be well with them. That was it. Why? THEY ARE NOT ISRAEL. If they were they would have to abide by the Law.

Two things Not all Israel is born again Israel and a Jew outward according the flesh is not a inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ also called today a Christians .

Again, that is not what Paul is saying. In this section, he speaks of a remnant with Israel, identifying them with the same remnant in Elijah's day. The elect of ISRAEL. They are the one's who are of Israel by the circumcision of the heart, not the physical sign passed down to Abraham, but spiritual.

Romans 9:6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Not all of the Nation of Israel, are those who are both the physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham. Gentiles in the church are NOT the physical descendants of Abraham, ONLY the spiritual descendants.

Romans 2:28-29King James Version For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It would seem some of the outward Jews were trying to enter as if they were inward born again, Christians. . some did repent . No DNA needed

They were holding onto the claim that they were righteous simply because they were of the Nation of Israel, the so-called people of God, by the physical sign given to Abraham.

Revelation 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

This speaks of the Judaizers who came to torment the Gentiles by saying they had to follow the Law to be saved. They are Jews in the physical sense, but they are not God's elect in the spiritual sense.

 

[Mr GLee]

NO!!!! THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL!!!! The Cushite woman was a Gentile. Jesus was treating her as God would have the Jews treat Gentiles. He wouldn't even speak to her, and was going to pass her by. Jesus was first sent solely to the Jews. Paul is clear on this. It isn't until after the Jews reject their Messiah, that Peter is sent to Cornelius, and God reveals the mystery that was veiled in the Old Testament, the church. The church isn't even BORN in this world until the day of Pentecost. It is the coming of the Holy Spirit to the Jews that marks the birth of the church. This is why what Peter says to Cornelius is so important and has so much impact. The Jews believed that they were the church solely, and that the Gentiles would be another group. A different gospel, a different way to God. However, when Peter went to Cornelius, God defied all human intuition, and gave the Gentiles the same exact Spirit that was given to the Jews. They spoke in tongues, just like the Jews. Look at how Peter presented the thought of the Jews changed with this revelation of God. Who would forbid these the water, who received the same Spirit as us?

God was treating his bride the church as he treats all born again believers beginning with Able the first martyr, apostle . . sent with the gospel .
Abel the second born to represent the doctrine a man must be born from above He was replaced by Enos another second born. Then men by faith began to call upon the power of name of the Lord. The second born spiritul seed (Christ) was passed down until the birth of jesus the Son of man becoming the first born son of God of many that followed

His blood like that of any born again saint has a gospel voice that cries out. longing for the new incorruptible body that will not age and die. neither Jew nor gentle, male nor female new creatures .

In those parables the Cushite is representing the born again gentiles dying mankind.

The spiritual understand of the parables must be sought out .(foolishness to the unbelieving world) More than one layer of understanding, a little digging is required. The temporal historallly must be compared or mixed with the unseen eternal. In that way parable teach us how to walk by faith (the unseen eternal) It does not change the simplicity of gospel. God saves dying mankind. . but can enrich and make the burden lighter .

There are some example of parables of that kind of idea. . . . . mysteries hidden for natural man. . Actively working, using the apostles as an example of what not to do..

Again parables as prophecy teach us how to hear the mysteries of faith (the unseen)

 

[TMSO]

God was treating his bride the church as he treats all born again believers beginning with Able the first martyr, apostle . . sent with the gospel .
Abel the second born to represent the doctrine a man must be born from above He was replaced by Enos another second born. Then men by faith began to call upon the power of name of the Lord. The second born spiritul seed (Christ) was passed down until the birth of jesus the Son of man becoming the first born son of God of many that followed

His blood like that of any born again saint has a gospel voice that cries out. longing for the new incorruptible body that will not age and die. neither Jew nor gentle, male nor female new creatures .

In those parables the Cushite is representing the born again gentiles dying mankind.

The spiritual understand of the parables must be sought out .(foolishness to the unbelieving world) More than one layer of understanding, a little digging is required. The temporal historallly must be compared or mixed with the unseen eternal. In that way parable teach us how to walk by faith (the unseen eternal) It does not change the simplicity of gospel. God saves dying mankind. . but can enrich and make the burden lighter .

There are some example of parables of that kind of idea. . . . . mysteries hidden for natural man. . Actively working, using the apostles as an example of what not to do..

Again parables as prophecy teach us how to hear the mysteries of faith (the unseen)

The church did not exist in the Old Testament. The church was the mystery of the Old Testament that was revealed in all its glory in the New Testament, on the day of Pentecost. And, God continued to reveal it with the induction of the Gentiles with Cornelius, the induction of John the Baptist's disciples, and the induction of the Samaritans. The reason for the gifts of the Spirit was to validate the church and its method. Peter knew the Gentiles were considered the same before God because God gave the Gentiles the same Holy Spirit, represented by the Gentiles ALSO speaking in tongues as the Jews had at Pentecost. (And Peter really did.) Cessationism has at its heart that certain gifts are no longer needed because the church has been fully established and validated already.

The Cushite woman was foreshadowing. That is all. That part of the story doesn't mean anything if the Jews did not reject their Messiah. Consider what God had her say. Even the dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from the master's table. The dogs are gentiles, and the master's are the Jews. Jesus is the bread of life, their meal. The parable shows the top down method of God's redemption, with Israel and the Jews at the top, and the Gentiles beneath feeding on the gospel given to the Jews. Hence eating the crumbs from the table. Jesus acted astonished because she basically said she understood and accepted the point Jesus made in full faith. As Paul said, salvation is first to the Jew, then the Gentile. A hand me down. Granted, it is because Israel rejected the gospel and threw it away.

 

[Mr GLee]

The church did not exist in the Old Testament. The church was the mystery of the Old Testament that was revealed in all its glory in the New Testament, on the day of Pentecost. And, God continued to reveal it with the induction of the Gentiles with Cornelius, the induction of John the Baptist's disciples, and the induction of the Samaritans. The reason for the gifts of the Spirit was to validate the church and its method. Peter knew the Gentiles were considered the same before God because God gave the Gentiles the same Holy Spirit, represented by the Gentiles ALSO speaking in tongues as the Jews had at Pentecost. (And Peter really did.) Cessationism has at its heart that certain gifts are no longer needed because the church has been fully established and validated already.

The Cushite woman was foreshadowing. That is all. That part of the story doesn't mean anything if the Jews did not reject their Messiah. Consider what God had her say. Even the dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from the master's table. The dogs are gentiles, and the master's are the Jews. Jesus is the bread of life, their meal. The parable shows the top down method of God's redemption, with Israel and the Jews at the top, and the Gentiles beneath feeding on the gospel given to the Jews. Hence eating the crumbs from the table. Jesus acted astonished because she basically said she understood and accepted the point Jesus made in full faith. As Paul said, salvation is first to the Jew, then the Gentile. A hand me down. Granted, it is because Israel rejected the gospel and threw it away.

Hi thanks


All Israel is not Born agian Israel A Jew is not one outwardly according to the flesh but is one inwardly born of the Spirit of Christ.

I did attend a sect ny home for approx. 25 years that was simular. Saying the bride of Christ began at Pentecost and not Abel the first apostle (sent messenger) UPS, Fed X ,Western Union .

The Prophet Abel murdered by the father of lies a murderer from that very beginning . Cain replied, How would I know where my martyred brother is ??? Did you check the green pasture he is not in the corn field ?

Sounds like you lean more towards the idea of Charismatics or what some call sign gifts.

 

[TMSO]

Hi thanks


All Israel is not Born agian Israel A Jew is not one outwardly according to the flesh but is one inwardly born of the Spirit of Christ.

I did attend a sect ny home for approx. 25 years that was simular. Saying the bride of Christ began at Pentecost and not Abel the first apostle (sent messenger) UPS, Fed X ,Western Union .

The Prophet Abel murdered by the father of lies a murderer from that very beginning . Cain replied, How would I know where my martyred brother is ??? Did you check the green pasture he is not in the corn field ?

Sounds like you lean more towards the idea of Charismatics or what some call sign gifts.

Abel was not a prophet. What Cain said was "Am I my brother's keeper?" That is all he said. And no, his brother was not martyred, he was killed. (The word used isn't even the word for murder. Some have said it wasn't Cain's intent to kill Abel, hence the word choice in Hebrew.) And Cain is not the father of lies, Jesus is clear that the devil is the father of lies.

Abel was one of Adam's children. As well as Cain, Seth, and countless brothers and sisters. (Adam lived...well... a long time, as did Eve.) And I'm a Cessationist in belief, not in name. I don't agree with saying sign gifts and miracles from God are the same thing. While the gifts are gone, that does not tell God He can't act how He wants on His own.

 

[Mr GLee]

Abel was not a prophet. What Cain said was "Am I my brother's keeper?" That is all he said. And no, his brother was not martyred, he was killed. (The word used isn't even the word for murder. Some have said it wasn't Cain's intent to kill Abel, hence the word choice in Hebrew.) And Cain is not the father of lies, Jesus is clear that the devil is the father of lies.

Abel was one of Adam's children. As well as Cain, Seth, and countless brothers and sisters. (Adam lived...well... a long time, as did Eve.) And I'm a Cessationist in belief, not in name. I don't agree with saying sign gifts and miracles from God are the same thing. While the gifts are gone, that does not tell God He can't act how He wants on His own.

Prophet = one that declares the will of another. How beautiful are the feet of the apostles shod with the gospel of peace

Genesis 4: 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. (1st degree murder )In efect. . . Where is he, why ask me did you check the green pastures He is not in the corn field as fertilizer (out of sight out of mind) The pagan foundation. No faith that could please ? ?


Matthew 23:34-36King James Version34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.