Six Problems Inherent in Dispensational Premillennialism, Part 3: False Teachings

[Ghada]

Dispensationalism teaches Jesus is physically living on earth, temporarily, for a literal one thousand years.

True. In the same flesh and bone resurrected body, that He walked among disicples for 40 days. He also showed Himself more gloriously to John on Patmos.

The resurrected Lord can go anywhere at anytime for however long He so desires. He is Lord omnipotent. Anyone who says He can't do so in any manner He chooses, is a liar, and believes not on the risen Lamb of God. He will especially fulfill any prophecies of Himself not yet done by Him.

The only place in scripture that mentions the one thousand years is Revelation 20.

That's where the Lord chose to reveal the length of His reign on earth. He only needs to reveal it once in Scripture to be believed and trusted in. And yet, He graciously dose so 6 times in as many Scriptures, just there are any questions about it. And also to prove wilfull unbelief and rejection of His words.

Anyone adding any words of their own to His words, in order to make them a symbolic fable, such as only being 'as' a thousand years, are not only unbelievers in His words alone, but also adding to themselves the plagues of the book, for doing so.

Do you find any verse in that chapter explicitly stating Jesus is physically on earth?

No. Rev 20 is only the finally revelation of prophecy yet to be fulfilled. The Lord giverning upon the earth was prophesied with the first Scripture saying so.

Psa 67:4O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

The Lord is not secretive in His prophecies, but just doesn't write them all in one place. He's written a Book about sucht things, not a one paragraph letter.

How about the chapter before that (Rev. 19)? Is there even a single sentence in either chapter that explicitly states Jesus is physically on the earth?

No.

If there is another Lord that will govern all nations upon the earth, than the risen Lord Jesus Christ, then who would that be?

If His name isn't Jesus, then he isn't any prophesied lord at all. Other than false lords and christs, I suppose.

It is not until chapter 21 that Jesus is explicitly reported to come to earth.

Rev 21 is the new earth, not this earth. The new earth will have no sea on it.

Whether the "one thousand years" is literal or figurative

Not whether for the blievers in God's own words. Whether others don't believe His words and insert their own words, to wilfully make what is true only into symbolic genuflecting, is their own imaginative business.

is immaterial to the fact Jesus is not stated to be on the earth during that period of time....... yet Dispensationalism teaches otherwise.

I don't teach otherwise than Scripture, and teach all Scripture. That is why I rightly teach all the Scriptures together as one, and not in part. Sola Scriptura

regardless of what you think,

Not regardless of what I read in the Book. Those words must be believed and done to be justified by the Lord writing His Book. All of them together, and each one at a time.

Theirs is a premillennial teaching that is irreconcilable with what is stated in the text.

You have not shown any contradiction with Scripture, but only seek to limit Scriptures to teach the prophecy from.

That is not any man's prerogative, nor any OP's.

There are only two options: 1) the DP position is arrived at through an exegetic inference, or it is reached through an eisegetic inference. An exegetic inference can occur only if there is some other verse directly related to Revelation 20:2-6.

I.e. Offer other Scriptures saying His rule is upon the earth. Done already.

2Co 3:12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

What matters is scripture (you're a big fan of scripture).

Thank you! But, hey, how hard is it to quote Scripture and teach the sense of it?

Neh 8:8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Only changing, taking away, or adding words to Scripture, makes it hard to teach Scripture. Impossible in fact.

2 Peter 3:16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Ghada]

I linked you to a video by Vlach, a noted Dispy, teaching DPism. In that video he states Dispensationalism is necessarily premillennialist and predominantly teaches a pre-tribulational rapture.

Already responded. Thanks again for what some dispensationalists teach about the Israel of God on earth, His coming again, the rapture, and the Lord's rule over all nations upon the earth. The first is false. The second and third are half-true, and the last is all true.

No other theology separates the rapture from the second, or final, return of Christ.

Yes, that is their half-truth about the rapture. There is no first resurrection into heaven, and then return to the earth with the Lord and His angels.

The first resurrection is at His return into the air with His armies of angels, to ascend and meet Him there. With clouds. Then the Lord and ten thousands of His resurrected saints descend to slaughter the armies around Judea, and set foot on earth around Jerusalem.

Only the Lord will set foot on the mount and roar.

Only Dispensationalism does that. Dispensationalism teaches the rapture will remove all the Christians from the earth prior to the tribulation.

This is true, but only pertaining to the tribulation and wrath of the Lord from the air, upon all inhabitors of the earth not resurrected and ascened to meet Him with clouds.

Saints of God are already enduring triublation and wrath of man upon the righteous and godly.

Here's what scriptures states.....
Revelation 7:13-15
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them."

Christians go through the tribulation. They are NOT removed from the earth beforehand. This is supported in Jesus' Olivet discourse when he states,

Matthew 24:9
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Matthew 24:21-22
For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Thank you. You are one of the few that acknowledge Christians must go through tribulation and wrath of man, to enter into the kingdom of His glory.

Act 14:22Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Now differentiate man's wrath and tribulation upon the righteous, from God's wrath and tribulation for the unrighteous, and you can preach the rapture ending their triublation on earth, with the Lord's great tribulation beginning upon all the earth.

Rom 2:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
In thse last days, the saints are still promised tribulation from enemies of God today, and blessedly are not appointed to any tribulation and wrath from God upon His enemies, in that day of His coming again.

2Ti 3:12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Christians will be handed over to tribulation, and the great tribulation would be cut short for the sake of the elect.

Chrsitians aren't handed over to anything by any hands, but those of the resurrected Lord Jesus Himself.

He allows tribulation to come to try our faith and trust in Him, and prove His faith and trust in us worthy to walk with Him in white.

Righteous Abel was faithful unto death at the hands of wicked Cain, as well as Job unto the double blessing from the Lord. The record of Paul's tribulation and persecution is well known. Including Jesus' own personal example of how to endure all tribulation and wrath the wicked, with faithful obedience to God unto the end.

This op is not about anyone else's beliefs.

This OP is about teachings you say are false, and have opened it to teachings you say are true.

There is no OP 'Power' to forbid others their beliefs and teachings on the same subject.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches positions other than what is plainly stated in scripture. Dispensationalism's teachings are so radically different from everything else taught in Christendom

This is nonsensical. No one knows all things taught by all Christians naming Christ, especially not what all Christians taught at the time of His apostles. The only record we have of other teachings than the apostles' doctrine, is recorded in NT Scripture as being false.

If all Christians at the time believed and taught what the apostles wrote, as well as all Scriptures of the OT, then they certainly did teach all true things pertaining to the coming of the Son of man, to die for our sins, rise again from the dead, and return to govern all His nations upon the earth. With His resurrected sons and brethren. For the thousand years, that will expire, no doubt to the day.

Either Dispensationalism is correct

The teaching of the doctrine itself is not against Scripture. No proof of that is ever offered. Expoundings from the teaching on covenant promises is part false, and part true. The same for the Lord's second coming, rapture into the air, and government upon the earth.

 

[Ghada]

Then all other kingdoms fall within Christ's kingdom and Dispensationalism has it wrong.

All other kingdoms than Jesus Christ's certainly fall, but His kingdom doesn't have any kingdoms on the dark side falling within it.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[Josheb]

True.

Then Dispensationalism teaches falsely

No.

The Dispensationalism teaches falsely.

You have not shown any contradiction with Scripture, but only seek to limit Scriptures to teach the prophecy from.

Then you, once again, are being obnoxious because I just went through the entire book of Revelation to show two places where Dispensationalism teaches falsely, and you agreed!

All other kingdoms than Jesus Christ's certainly fall, but His kingdom doesn't have any kingdoms on the dark side falling within it.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Is Satan subject to the rule of Christ?

 

[Ghada]

Then you, once again, are being obnoxious because I just went through the entire book of Revelation to show two places where Dispensationalism teaches falsely, and you agreed!

I agree some dispensationalist expounding on the coming of the Lord, the rapture, and millennialism is flawed.

Here, you are addressing my response to your objection to the prophesied thousand year reign of the Lord upon the earth. That's disputing the Bibe itself, between you and me alone. It has nothing to do with the doctrine of dispensationalism, nor what some dispensationalist exound on.

You need to try not to mix up different things, when handling different things at the same time. You need to go ahead and accept that not all premillenial believers are dispensationalists expounding on behalf of dispensationalism. I am one that believed it long before I ever heard of dispensationalism. Nor have I bothered to understand it until now in relation to Scripture, because of your false accusation against the doctrine itself.

You yourself say dispensationalism is a late comer, and John was not a dispensationalist, when recording the thousand year reign of the Lord over all nations upon the earth, with His first resurrected saints.

Is Satan subject to the rule of Christ?

I've addressed the difference between the Lord omnipotent, and the Lord ruling and reigning in the lives of His obedient angels in heaven, and His obedient body on earth.

But, since you ask a specific question, then yes, Satan and all angels that sin and the wicked on earth and in hell, are ruled over by the Lord's execution of judgment.

However, the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Head of Satan, demons, nor any unrighteous man on earth.

Are you saying Jesus is Head over any angel that sinned, and over any child of disobedience, or any kingdom of darkness, other than His own?

Scripture's Lordship of Jesus Christ over any angel and man, is His Headship over their obedient lives and bodies.

1Co 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Are you saying the Head of Satan is Christ Jesus?

Or, you can now acknowledge the difference between the Lord God omnipotent executing judgment over all things He creates, vs the Lordship and Headship of the risen Son Jesus Christ over them that obey Him.

Col 2:18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

 

[Josheb]

I agree some dispensationalist expounding on the coming of the Lord, the rapture, and millennialism is flawed.

Yep.

The rest is irrelevant to the op.

 

[Mr GLee]

I've addressed the difference between the Lord omnipotent, and the Lord ruling and reigning in the lives of His obedient angels in heaven, and His obedient body on earth.

But, since you ask a specific question, then yes, Satan and all angels that sin and the wicked on earth and in hell, are ruled over by the Lord's execution of judgment

I would offer

Compare the spiritual hidden gospel undestanding (faith) to the same Faith. God's "let there be Power" to the same power of love "the good faith" became sight

Claiming the idea as a oral tradition of a invisible creation called a angel. That fake word not coined unto the 7th century . . . . replaces messenger, serving another kind of gospel.

The false gospel of patron saints ( oral laws of men) a legion of messengers false apostles as dieembodied spirit gods male and female 3,507 and rising

Apostles how beautiful are the apostles feet shod with the gospel , Its Christ the Holy Spirit that works in us as two walking. Three a crowd .

No help from the peanut gallery of oral tradition of dying mankind . . not a legion of what some call angels (fake word) Its sent messenger errant boy .

I am my wife's favorite apostles she faithfully let there be . . sends me as a messenger(apostle) on a mission to the supermarket Zoo. with a list etched in stone not to add or subtract or its the garage for you. I received the apostles reward .Two home made peanut butter cookies and a cold glass of milk .

Green Bay Packer time. . go Love lol

 

[Ghada]

I would offer

Compare the spiritual hidden gospel undestanding (faith) to the same Faith. God's "let there be Power" to the same power of love "the good faith" became sight

Claiming the idea as a oral tradition of a invisible creation called a angel. That fake word not coined unto the 7th century . . . . replaces messenger, serving another kind of gospel.

The false gospel of patron saints ( oral laws of men) a legion of messengers false apostles as dieembodied spirit gods male and female 3,507 and rising

Apostles how beautiful are the apostles feet shod with the gospel , Its Christ the Holy Spirit that works in us as two walking. Three a crowd .

No help from the peanut gallery of oral tradition of dying mankind . . not a legion of what some call angels (fake word) Its sent messenger errant boy .

I am my wife's favorite apostles she faithfully let there be . . sends me as a messenger(apostle) on a mission to the supermarket Zoo. with a list etched in stone not to add or subtract or its the garage for you. I received the apostles reward .Two home made peanut butter cookies and a cold glass of milk .

I don't try to decipher people's own personal code-talk.

Green Bay Packer time. . go Love lol

Enjoy

 

[Mr GLee]

I don't try to decipher people's own personal code-talk.



Enjoy

How would you know if the signified language of parables is not Christ personal spiritual unseen understanding or what you call code talk ?

How do you divide them and come up with your conclusion. Just code talk ?

 

[Ghada]

How would you know if the signified language of parables is not Christ personal spiritual unseen understanding

The Bible says it is a parable, when a parable is being taught. All Scripture is not parable, and signified prophecies are not just symbolic.

The prophecies signifying the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, were not symbol only, but signified the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ

or what you call code talk ?

That's your own learned little language you sometimes indulge in. I don't bother trying to decipher it.

Speaking in a mysterious way, does not reveal true mysteries, but only makes a verbal show of being mysterious. Pagan mysteries were always shrouded in empty mystery-speak.

The Jews seek a sign that decieves, the Greeks seek wisdom that is vain, and intellectuals seek mysteries in words alone.

2Ti 3:6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

How do you divide them and come up with your conclusion.

God's Book makes perfect sense. When a parable is being given, the Book says so. When an event is being recorded and prophesied, the Book says so. If a mystery is being revealed, the Book says so plainly.

2Co 3:12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

 

[Mr GLee]

he Bible says it is a parable, when a parable is being taught. All Scripture is not parable, and signified prophecies are not just symbolic.

The prophecies signifying the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, were not symbol only, but signified the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Hi thanks for the reply

Yes, it is a parable when it's says "parable". But without parables using the temporal historical things seen mixed with the invisible things (faith) of Christ in order to give us the mysteries of faith, the gospel . . . . .Christ spoke not

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
I
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Without parable stories that teach spiritual things of faith. . . . . Christ our husband and teacher spoke not.

In the beginning the first what I call parable The invisible power "let there be " revealing the mystery of his word and "it was God alone good". The law of faith

Again, the unseen signified revealed by that seen. In that way the whole Bible is a "let there be" . . parable

God is light as eternal Glory and not that he can only create it temporality. . Genesis introducing his own essence

Genesis 1King James Version In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light

I would think one of the main reasons for division especially today there must be division . His kingdom Christ in us yoked with him does not come by the temporal dying, Parables hide the light from some revealing it too others

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Mix the two. . . . .gospel rest

 

[Ghada]

Hi thanks for the reply

Yes, it is a parable when it's says "parable". But without parables using the temporal historical things seen mixed with the invisible things (faith) of Christ in order to give us the mysteries of faith, the gospel . . . . .Christ spoke not

Jesus did not only speak in parables. Most of what He spoke was the doctrine of righteousness from a pure heart, and prophecy of His return to judge the world in righteousness.

He also warned of false Christs coming in their own name, and turning His prophecy into fables, by the device of making parables and symbols out of true events, in order to deny the events to come.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Again, the unseen signified revealed by that seen. In that way the whole Bible is a "let there be" . . parable

Parables are not true events. They are made up events to teach spiritual matters of faith.

Creation is a true event, and the Bible is not a parable.