TWO GENTILES JESUS SAVED

[jeremiah1five]

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. Mt 8:9–10.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mt 15:27–28.

Two Gentiles who had an impact on Jesus Christ. Such an impact that for their faith Jesus saved them.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:5–6.

And a reward they received, even being Gentile and outside the Abrahamic Covenant.
But why was their faith "so great faith" and "great is thy faith?"
They knew the Old Testament prophecies of Israel's coming Messiah and Redeemer and King. And when they heard of Jesus, they put it all together and sought Him out for their healings, one for the centurion's servant, and one for her daughter.
That is the basis of faith. Believing the testimony of God concerning His Son:

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 Jn 5:8–11.

When we come to the knowledge of the truth of Scripture and our belief's line up with true doctrine, then we, too, can be in the same category as these two Gentiles. When we come to false understanding of doctrine then God cannot reward. The Spirit of Truth WILL NOT bless the spirit of error. And there is a great deal of error on sites like this that impede one's arrival at the truth of what is being discussed. People come to places like this with an agenda or to spout fantastical beliefs about Scripture and doctrine and what is to be believed about this "so-great salvation."

So, consider this one thing when you post about God and Scripture. God has revealed His Word. It belongs to His people. And what God has said in His Word is truth. When someone comes to fantastical understandings that God never meant they are in effect calling God a liar and it is their understanding of the Scripture that is true over what God has said in His Word.
And there is one more thing to consider. In order to understand most fully about God's Word, we need the Holy Spirit's guidance to come to the knowledge of the Truth. When one proceeds to read and study Scripture without the Holy Spirit's guidance and illumination, they will always come to fantastical conclusions that are not sound doctrine.

This centurion and woman from Canaan, both Gentiles, received reward from Christ because they believed what God had said about His Son. They trusted the Scripture as given in description of Israel's Messiah and when they heard and saw the things this man Jesus was saying and performing, they knew they found their man. And as added blessing, these two Gentiles have their story told in the New Testament Scripture. They started reading or being told the "Jewish" Bible and now they are now part of the "Jewish" Bible.
Our New Testament Scripture.

God IS a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him in the Scriptures, those who trust the Holy Spirit in their studies to take them to the knowledge of the Truth. These are the ones who will see God as He is described in Scripture and in this, they have fellowship with God. When one has fantastical beliefs about God and His Word in so many places, I have to question their fellowship with God. Even to the point of their salvation.
We must ALL see the same Jesus; we must ALL say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 Jn 3:2.

...as He is described in Scripture, that is.

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

.
this really demonstrates the love of God, his love to save and bless those of every ethnicity

 

[Two-Edged Sword]

People come to places like this with an agenda or to spout fantastical beliefs about Scripture and doctrine

People do post some unorthodox, and often unbiblical, views in these forums but I think posters generally truly believe what they post. A forum by design is an arena to hash out these things, comparing scripture with scripture to validate or debunk what is being presented.
We should welcome these posts because even if the poster is too dogmatic to receive correction we can show other readers where the idea is contradictory to the Bible.

We ourselves also need to guard against being too dogmatic and closed minded remembering 1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know”. There's been a few times when I started digging through scriptures to "correct" someone's opinion only to find I couldn't, and studying whatever topic lead me to a better Biblical understanding.

 

[jeremiah1five]

People do post some unorthodox, and often unbiblical, views in these forums but I think posters generally truly believe what they post. A forum by design is an arena to hash out these things, comparing scripture with scripture to validate or debunk what is being presented.

That doesn't happen. When one firmly believes what they believe no amount of Scripture will change their thinking. So, the Scripture clearly written will go by the wayside and the posters beliefs and understanding gets the glory.

We should welcome these posts because even if the poster is too dogmatic to receive correction we can show other readers where the idea is contradictory to the Bible.
We ourselves also need to guard against being too dogmatic and closed minded remembering 1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know”. There's been a few times when I started digging through scriptures to "correct" someone's opinion only to find I couldn't, and studying whatever topic lead me to a better Biblical understanding.

G. K. Chesterton said, (paraphrase) "A teacher who is not dogmatic in their teaching simply is not teaching."
But I agree with your last statement. When confronted with having difficult questions put to me it makes me think harder and more thoroughly about what my answer will be.
And, if I am not getting through to someone because they rather not accept the clear teaching of Scripture it is usually the member not involved that walks away with some better understanding or something new to add to their belief.

 

[Two-Edged Sword]

"A teacher who is not dogmatic in their teaching simply is not teaching."

I didn't know who G. K. Chesterton so I had to look him up. Wikipedia states "Chesterton routinely referred to himself as an orthodox Christian, and came to identify this position more and more with Catholicism, eventually converting to Roman Catholicism from high church Anglicanism". So despite Chesterton toting the importance of being dogmatic, he apparently was not closed to changing his own views.

You might not have faith in other's being open to change, but those that are actually seeking truth will follow where the scripture leads: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16

Personally, my doctrine has changed over the years as I have grown in Christ. If we learn something differently that can be cohesively supported looking at all Biblical scripture we need to be willing to follow truth. I don't think I'm alone in seeking truth over dogmatism, it's the proper Christian path.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I didn't know who G. K. Chesterton so I had to look him up. Wikipedia states "Chesterton routinely referred to himself as an orthodox Christian, and came to identify this position more and more with Catholicism, eventually converting to Roman Catholicism from high church Anglicanism". So despite Chesterton toting the importance of being dogmatic, he apparently was not closed to changing his own views.

You might not have faith in other's being open to change, but those that are actually seeking truth will follow where the scripture leads: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16

Let's test that. This is what Peter said under inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pet. 2:3–4.

Peter say all the angels that sinned are all locked up.

The conclusion would be that there are no angels that sinned loose on the planet. Do you agree with Peter and the Holy Spirit?

Personally, my doctrine has changed over the years as I have grown in Christ. If we learn something differently that can be cohesively supported looking at all Biblical scripture we need to be willing to follow truth. I don't think I'm alone in seeking truth over dogmatism, it's the proper Christian path.

I've read Chesterton's books. Very insightful man in his opinions.
But what I was trying to say above is that when one comes to the knowledge of the truth other peoples' opinions do not matter.
Faith is based on knowledge and knowledge of the Word of God.
The more knowledge one has the more faith they have for they would have more knowledge of God in which to trust (have faith in.)

 

[EarlyActs]

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. Mt 8:9–10.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mt 15:27–28.

Two Gentiles who had an impact on Jesus Christ. Such an impact that for their faith Jesus saved them.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:5–6.

And a reward they received, even being Gentile and outside the Abrahamic Covenant.
But why was their faith "so great faith" and "great is thy faith?"
They knew the Old Testament prophecies of Israel's coming Messiah and Redeemer and King. And when they heard of Jesus, they put it all together and sought Him out for their healings, one for the centurion's servant, and one for her daughter.
That is the basis of faith. Believing the testimony of God concerning His Son:

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 Jn 5:8–11.

When we come to the knowledge of the truth of Scripture and our belief's line up with true doctrine, then we, too, can be in the same category as these two Gentiles. When we come to false understanding of doctrine then God cannot reward. The Spirit of Truth WILL NOT bless the spirit of error. And there is a great deal of error on sites like this that impede one's arrival at the truth of what is being discussed. People come to places like this with an agenda or to spout fantastical beliefs about Scripture and doctrine and what is to be believed about this "so-great salvation."

So, consider this one thing when you post about God and Scripture. God has revealed His Word. It belongs to His people. And what God has said in His Word is truth. When someone comes to fantastical understandings that God never meant they are in effect calling God a liar and it is their understanding of the Scripture that is true over what God has said in His Word.
And there is one more thing to consider. In order to understand most fully about God's Word, we need the Holy Spirit's guidance to come to the knowledge of the Truth. When one proceeds to read and study Scripture without the Holy Spirit's guidance and illumination, they will always come to fantastical conclusions that are not sound doctrine.

This centurion and woman from Canaan, both Gentiles, received reward from Christ because they believed what God had said about His Son. They trusted the Scripture as given in description of Israel's Messiah and when they heard and saw the things this man Jesus was saying and performing, they knew they found their man. And as added blessing, these two Gentiles have their story told in the New Testament Scripture. They started reading or being told the "Jewish" Bible and now they are now part of the "Jewish" Bible.
Our New Testament Scripture.

God IS a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him in the Scriptures, those who trust the Holy Spirit in their studies to take them to the knowledge of the Truth. These are the ones who will see God as He is described in Scripture and in this, they have fellowship with God. When one has fantastical beliefs about God and His Word in so many places, I have to question their fellowship with God. Even to the point of their salvation.
We must ALL see the same Jesus; we must ALL say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 Jn 3:2.

...as He is described in Scripture, that is.

I think you are missing that the Abrahamic covenant as seen by Gal 3 is that "the Seed would bless all nations." You are giving faith a saving value in itself, yet faith is empty, and is only as good as the object it bases itself upon.

It was that group of people, based on Christ, who were the remnant of Israel all through the OT; they are "in the same category as these two Gentiles." I hope that is not one of the fantastical doctrines you are referring to, because it is solid.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think you are missing that the Abrahamic covenant as seen by Gal 3 is that "the Seed would bless all nations." You are giving faith a saving value in itself, yet faith is empty, and is only as good as the object it bases itself upon.

The woman and the Roman centurion both knew the Scripture prophecies concerning Israel's Messiah. When Messiah shows up, they put two and two together and recognize Him as prophesied. They did what we do today and that is trust His Word for answers to prayers and for His guidance. Faith is not empty.

It was that group of people, based on Christ, who were the remnant of Israel all through the OT; they are "in the same category as these two Gentiles." I hope that is not one of the fantastical doctrines you are referring to, because it is solid.

They were Gentiles not Hebrew.

 

[EarlyActs]

The woman and the Roman centurion both knew the Scripture prophecies concerning Israel's Messiah. When Messiah shows up, they put two and two together and recognize Him as prophesied. They did what we do today and that is trust His Word for answers to prayers and for His guidance. Faith is not empty.

They were Gentiles not Hebrew.

The NT lines are not hardened as you think; if they appear it is rather as a problem to be solved, not continued.

 

[EarlyActs]

The woman and the Roman centurion both knew the Scripture prophecies concerning Israel's Messiah. When Messiah shows up, they put two and two together and recognize Him as prophesied. They did what we do today and that is trust His Word for answers to prayers and for His guidance. Faith is not empty.

They were Gentiles not Hebrew.

Romans 9 says "us" meaning all who believe. Maybe if you had a geometric chart about groups or sets you could see it. There would be circle J and circle G but then there would be one overlapping each call B for believers. That is why there is a play on the word 'nation' in Mt 21's parable of the vineyard.

 

[EarlyActs]

The woman and the Roman centurion both knew the Scripture prophecies concerning Israel's Messiah. When Messiah shows up, they put two and two together and recognize Him as prophesied. They did what we do today and that is trust His Word for answers to prayers and for His guidance. Faith is not empty.

They were Gentiles not Hebrew.

I don't think you want to deal with Gal 3 and I think I know why.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Romans 9 says "us" meaning all who believe. Maybe if you had a geometric chart about groups or sets you could see it. There would be circle J and circle G but then there would be one overlapping each call B for believers. That is why there is a play on the word 'nation' in Mt 21's parable of the vineyard.

Paul's letter to Rome was to Jewish Christians. He speaks at length about the Jews and mentions their Law many times. Gentiles would have no knowledge of what was in the Law. But Paul speaks as though His readers are well versed in the Law.
The "us" are his fellow-kinsmen: the Jews.

I don't think you want to deal with Gal 3 and I think I know why.

Paul is speaking/writing to Jews about things Jews would have much knowledge of - their Law and Abraham. Any questions?
The Galatian epistle is written to Jewish believers in Asia Minor.

 

[EarlyActs]

Paul's letter to Rome was to Jewish Christians. He speaks at length about the Jews and mentions their Law many times. Gentiles would have no knowledge of what was in the Law. But Paul speaks as though His readers are well versed in the Law.
The "us" are his fellow-kinsmen: the Jews.

Paul is speaking/writing to Jews about things Jews would have much knowledge of - their Law and Abraham. Any questions?
The Galatian epistle is written to Jewish believers in Asia Minor.

You have no idea.

 

[EarlyActs]

Paul's letter to Rome was to Jewish Christians. He speaks at length about the Jews and mentions their Law many times. Gentiles would have no knowledge of what was in the Law. But Paul speaks as though His readers are well versed in the Law.
The "us" are his fellow-kinsmen: the Jews.

Paul is speaking/writing to Jews about things Jews would have much knowledge of - their Law and Abraham. Any questions?
The Galatian epistle is written to Jewish believers in Asia Minor.

"Us" in Rom 9:24 is both Jews and Gentiles as the 4 quotes which follow from the OT prove.

 

[EarlyActs]

Paul's letter to Rome was to Jewish Christians. He speaks at length about the Jews and mentions their Law many times. Gentiles would have no knowledge of what was in the Law. But Paul speaks as though His readers are well versed in the Law.
The "us" are his fellow-kinsmen: the Jews.

Paul is speaking/writing to Jews about things Jews would have much knowledge of - their Law and Abraham. Any questions?
The Galatian epistle is written to Jewish believers in Asia Minor.

Any elementary reading of either piece shows that they are to both. If you know the history of Romans, you know that the Jews just returned to Rome and to fellowship there from Claudius' eviction and the Gentiles were kind of wondering why the Jews were lagging.

Notice in Gal 3 that God preaches that the nations will gain justification by faith by declaring the Gospel to Abraham with 'in the Seed all the nations will be blessed.'

At some point you have to realize that you can talk about issues/misunderstandings Jews are having while the destination of the letter is both. Btw, the city (Ephesus) is missing from Eph 1:1, which means the thing was circulated to all those churches. It is emphatic that all the technical terms for promises to Israel--inheritance, citizenship etc--are for the Gentiles who are reading it there. That is how we know the NT idea of "Israel" is nothing like what you are saying.

 

[EarlyActs]

Paul's letter to Rome was to Jewish Christians. He speaks at length about the Jews and mentions their Law many times. Gentiles would have no knowledge of what was in the Law. But Paul speaks as though His readers are well versed in the Law.
The "us" are his fellow-kinsmen: the Jews.

Paul is speaking/writing to Jews about things Jews would have much knowledge of - their Law and Abraham. Any questions?
The Galatian epistle is written to Jewish believers in Asia Minor.

There were many Gentiles is these congregations; your comments are historical nonsense. Read Rom 16's greeting list.

 

[jeremiah1five]

"Us" in Rom 9:24 is both Jews and Gentiles as the 4 quotes which follow from the OT prove.

I'll admit there may have been Gentile Christians, but the crux of his letter is to Jeish Christians.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom. 9:24.

And I confess the question mark may have been added by the KJV translators.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Any elementary reading of either piece shows that they are to both. If you know the history of Romans, you know that the Jews just returned to Rome and to fellowship there from Claudius' eviction and the Gentiles were kind of wondering why the Jews were lagging.

Notice in Gal 3 that God preaches that the nations will gain justification by faith by declaring the Gospel to Abraham with 'in the Seed all the nations will be blessed.'

Yes, and he is saying this to Jewish Christians to remind them of the prophecies of this/these event(s).

At some point you have to realize that you can talk about issues/misunderstandings Jews are having while the destination of the letter is both. Btw, the city (Ephesus) is missing from Eph 1:1, which means the thing was circulated to all those churches.

Yes, agreed.

It is emphatic that all the technical terms for promises to Israel--inheritance, citizenship etc--are for the Gentiles who are reading it there. That is how we know the NT idea of "Israel" is nothing like what you are saying.

There was Gentile Christians present but a minority. Messiah was Promised to Israel and to Israel He came. And for the first couple of decades (Paul was saved AD34-37) until the destruction of their Temple God added a remnant or Israeli-foundation to the continuation of His Church-building (originally begun when the Tabernacle was built in the desert post-Egypt) until the Times of the Gentiles still yet future would begin.
Remember, Jesus sent His apostles into Gentile lands to herald the arrival of Israel's Messiah to the twelve tribes scattered in those lands to solidify that His Promise was kept before He was to do this "new thing" prophesied by Isaiah, which was the grafting in of Gentiles to the Olive branches of the Israeli Tree.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There were many Gentiles is these congregations; your comments are historical nonsense. Read Rom 16's greeting list.

Yes, these were the children of Jews that lived in Gentile lands. Most likely Hellenized Jews who would have Greek names.

 

[EarlyActs]

I'll admit there may have been Gentile Christians, but the crux of his letter is to Jeish Christians.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom. 9:24.

And I confess the question mark may have been added by the KJV translators.

It's a question, but which question? There is no doubt there are Gentiles coming in. So it can't be that.