Titles Jesus doesn't share with God

[Arial]

Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Acts 313The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

That isn't a title of God. It is who God is the God of. And tell us what you mean when you use it as an illustration of a title Jesus did not share with God. And illustrate without making any contradictions in the scriptures, that this one scripture make Jesus not God. If this---and remember it is not a title---makes Him not God, what do all the actual titles He does share with God, make Him?

Jesus isn't the Lord of heaven and earth:

Matt 1125At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

What things was Jesus referring to and why did He call Him Lord of Heaven and earth? Does that scripture all by itself say that Jesus is not God? And if it did, would that not mean also that t
hose titles He does share with God, mean He is God? You can't reason in two opposite directions and prove your assertion, one way for your beliefs and another way for those who disagree with your belief.

Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit:

The Holy Spirit is not a title but a being and no one as far as I know says that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus isn't YHWH:

Psalm 1101The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]“Sit at My right handuntil I make Your enemiesa footstool for Your feet.

You use Yahweh correctly as to the Hebrew, but the second Lord you simply insert (Jesus) rather than carry on a translation of Hebrew. What we have of the Hebrew is: to my Lord Yahweh said A Psalm of David your enemies I make til at My right hand sit your footstool. To have it make sense in English Lord Yahweh said sit at my right hand til I make your enemies your footstool.

If we go to where Jesus quotes this Psalm in Matt 22:44 in the Greek we have "Said the Lord to the Lord of me, sit on the right hand of Me, until I place the enemies of You (as) a footstool for the feet of You. The first LORD is Kurios, the second Kyrio. Kyrios: a person exercising absolute ownership rights. It is used of God as to His power and authority and owner of all creation, and over mankind.
Kurio: Is a transliteration of the same word.

So Jesus shares the title of Lord with God.

Jesus isn't the Lord God Almighty:

Revelation 2122But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Two temples ?

Jesus isn't the Sovereign Lord and Creator:

Acts 424When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him ws not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16-16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things were created by him.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Jesus shares the title Creator with God.

 

[Arial]

The OP is what the OP is. If you think that the scriptures quoted are "red herrings" then the burden of proof is on you to establish that. Let me help you. How about you begin with one of the verses you feel are a red herring and explain how.

Is Jesus called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob anywhere in the Bible? Yes or no.

For starters, the title of the Op is Titles Jesus doesn't share with God, and that isn't even a title. See post #61.

 

[Runningman]

Correct, Jesus is God made visible.

Person 1 = Son
The Image of....
Person 2 = The invisible God

The Son isn't the invisible God, not the same person. Simple test. Is your God an image of God or is your God God Himself?

 

[grace2]

Person 1 = Son
The Image of....
Person 2 = The invisible God

The Son isn't the invisible God, not the same person. Simple test. Is your God an image of God or is your God God Himself?

excellent.

 

[Runningman]

That isn't a title of God. It is who God is the God of. And tell us what you mean when you use it as an illustration of a title Jesus did not share with God. And illustrate without making any contradictions in the scriptures, that this one scripture make Jesus not God. If this---and remember it is not a title---makes Him not God, what do all the actual titles He does share with God, make Him?

Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

What things was Jesus referring to and why did He call Him Lord of Heaven and earth? Does that scripture all by itself say that Jesus is not God? And if it did, would that not mean also that t
hose titles He does share with God, mean He is God? You can't reason in two opposite directions and prove your assertion, one way for your beliefs and another way for those who disagree with your belief.

The Lord of heaven and earth is just another title exclusive to the Father that the Son in no way shares with God.

The Holy Spirit is not a title but a being and no one as far as I know says that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

If blaspheming God who is a holy Spirit is not forgivable, but blaspheming the Son is forgivable then the Son isn't God or equal to God.

You use Yahweh correctly as to the Hebrew, but the second Lord you simply insert (Jesus) rather than carry on a translation of Hebrew. What we have of the Hebrew is: to my Lord Yahweh said A Psalm of David your enemies I make til at My right hand sit your footstool. To have it make sense in English Lord Yahweh said sit at my right hand til I make your enemies your footstool.

In the Old Testament where the all capitalized word "LORD" appears, it actually just means Yahweh. Where "Lord" appears it isn't in refence to Yahweh. This means Jesus is not God.

If we go to where Jesus quotes this Psalm in Matt 22:44 in the Greek we have "Said the Lord to the Lord of me, sit on the right hand of Me, until I place the enemies of You (as) a footstool for the feet of You. The first LORD is Kurios, the second Kyrio. Kyrios: a person exercising absolute ownership rights. It is used of God as to His power and authority and owner of all creation, and over mankind.
Kurio: Is a transliteration of the same word.

Not the same word or the same person in Hebrew that it was quoted from. The original intention and definition of names and words don't change when they are translated into a new language.

So Jesus shares the title of Lord with God.

Not according to scripture.

Two temples ?

The Lamb isn't the Lord God Almighty.

Jesus shares the title Creator with God.

Not even that. See, only the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth according to Matthew 11:25 and Jesus is never called that. Guess who the creator of all things is? This is a good one.

Matt 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

 

[grace2]

Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.


The Lord of heaven and earth is just another title exclusive to the Father that the Son in no way shares with God.

If blaspheming God who is a holy Spirit is not forgivable, but blaspheming the Son is forgivable then the Son isn't God or equal to God.


In the Old Testament where the all capitalized word "LORD" appears, it actually just means Yahweh. Where "Lord" appears it isn't in refence to Yahweh. This means Jesus is not God.


Not the same word or the same person in Hebrew that it was quoted from. The original intention and definition of names and words don't change when they are translated into a new language.

Not according to scripture.


The Lamb isn't the Lord God Almighty.


Not even that. See, only the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth according to Matthew 11:25 and Jesus is never called that. Guess who the creator of all things is? This is a good one.

Matt 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

superve. flowless.

 

[Runningman]

superve. flowless.

Glory to God. That Matthew 11:25 and Acts 17:24 combination of verses is a powerful one.

 

[Josheb]

There is nothing wrong with quoting the verses.

Never said there was. It is not the quoting of verses that is the problem, and this should not have to be explained. That it has been explained and the protests continue makes things worse, not better.

I made the OP. You responded with a claim about the verses I supplied being red herrings. I responded, now it's your turn to own the burden proof for your claim.

Actually, if you have any way to debunk anything I said or demonstrate the error of the verses I quoted then you're in the best possible position to wield the power of scripture over any one or all of my 20+ scriptural references on page 1 & 2 of this thread. On the other hand, If you don't have anything then trying to change the subject and asking question unrelated to the OP would be your best bet to back pedal on out of the corner you're in.

So once you address the OP in any meaningful way if you want to ask unrelated questions I would be happy to answer.

Another claim on your part. Since you feel I have mishandled scripture and taken something out of context then please feel free to correct me. Aside from talking about your opinion as to how the Bible should be understood, so far I have not seen any demonstration about what you think the Bible should say or how what I said is wrong.

"You are wrong" or "that's a red herring" is not a valid reply. Please explain. Thank you.

The question asked has still not been answered.

Titus 3:9-11
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


I asked once. I asked twice. I asked thrice and even after having explained the salience of the inquiry still no answer came. I bid you both, "Adieu."

 

[grace2]

Never said there was.

then why did you say red flag????????????

You guys are so game players.

That's all you have left to do because your enemy is flawless.

 

[prism]

Person 1 = Son
The Image of....
Person 2 = The invisible God

The Son isn't the invisible God, not the same person. Simple test. Is your God an image of God or is your God God Himself?

Ever hear of the Trinity or the Athanasius Creed?

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

 

[Runningman]

Ever hear of the Trinity or the Athanasius Creed?

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Yes I have heard of this creed and and isn't found in the Bible. "Believe in the Athanasian Creed to be saved" is a false gospel.

 

[Runningman]

The question asked has still not been answered.

Seems you have no intention of explaining how the verses I provided are red herrings. I guess because they aren't red herrings and there is no discussion to have on the matter. I suggest that you just believe what the Bible says.

 

[Arial]

Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

If that one sentence means Jesus is not God because He is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does the following quote where He is called by a title of God mean He is God?

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, "wo is and was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 22:12-13 "Behold,I (Jesus) am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

The Lord of heaven and earth is just another title exclusive to the Father that the Son in no way shares with God.

Acts 10:36 "As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),"

 

[grace2]

If that one sentence means Jesus is not God because He is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does the following quote where He is called by a title of God mean He is God?

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, "wo is and was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 22:12-13 "Behold,I (Jesus) am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Acts 10:36 "As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),"

Illogical, as usual.

All you are doing is to justify your man-made doctrine.

It should be the other way around.

 

[Arial]

Illogical, as usual.

All you are doing is to justify your man-made doctrine.

It should be the other way around.

Explain how it is illogical.

I will show you what is illogical. Someone says Jesus isn't God because there are titles He does not share with God. On the other hand, same person says just because He shares a title with God, that does not mean He is God. He uses a different burden of proof for himself than the one he imposes on trinitarians.

What is illogical is saying that Jesus is not Lord over all and then ignoring the scripture that says He is.

 

[Runningman]

If that one sentence means Jesus is not God because He is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does the following quote where He is called by a title of God mean He is God?

No.

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, "wo is and was and who is to come, the Almighty."

That isn't Jesus talking. Most Bible, aside from two as far as I know, will not assign red-lettering to that verse.

Rev 22:12-13 "Behold,I (Jesus) am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

This isn't God. Look at the narrative of the one speaking leading right up to where Jesus said that in verse 12-13. The one talking is the messenger of God who denied being God and rejected being worshipped as God.

Revelation 22
8And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to worship before the feet of the messenger who is showing me these things; 9and he says to me, “Behold—No! For I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; worship God.”

10And He says to me, “You may not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11The [one] being unrighteous—let him be unrighteous still; and the filthy—let him be filthy still; and the righteous—let him do righteousness still; and the holy—let him be holy still.

12Behold, I come quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to each as his work will be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and End—the First and the Last.

Acts 10:36 "As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),"

A look at the context reveals Jesus isn't God.

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”

 

[Runningman]

I will show you what is illogical. Someone says Jesus isn't God because there are titles He does not share with God.

But do you use titles that Jesus shares with God to say he is God? Then the reverse is true. The matter is Jesus doesn't share all of the titles with God. Therefore he isn't God.

 

[grace2]

I will show you what is illogical. Someone says Jesus isn't God because there are titles He does not share with God.

He is showing you so many of them. The OP is just another one that triune god followers disregard.

You can do this kind of shinanigan because triune god followers don't know what the Bible teaches.

Leaders of triune god worshippers are deliberately ignorant.

We are just exposing them.

 

[Arial]

But do you use titles that Jesus shares with God to say he is God? Then the reverse is true. The matter is Jesus doesn't share all of the titles with God. Therefore he isn't God.

More illogic. For one thing I don't use the shared titles as my only affirmation that Jesus is God. That is just for the sake of this particular argument. As Son of Man Jesus was not always referred to by all the titles of God. As Son of God, He is equal with God in all ways. And one shared title is enough to verify this. Whereas the absence of any shared title being used is meaningless.

But if we use your measuring stick again for a moment---where does Jesus explicitly say, "I am not God."

 

[grace2]

--where does Jesus explicitly say, "I am not God."

where does Jesus say "I am God"?

His Father says it over and over and you don't even recognize it.

it is because you are not reading the Bible, especially the OT.