Through one man, sin entered the world.

[LeviR]

Adam and Eve became a slave to sin in the flesh when they obeyed their own evil desire. That caused the transgression that killed us all.

That evil Master, God and Prince, sin in the flesh, killed us all. He was a murderer from the beginning.

 

[fastfredy0]

Desire is not always a sin. We desire God. It depends on what we desire.

True enough. I assumed you were referring to desiring things that would be sinful. My bad.

She [Eve] knew nothing of sin.

How could you know that? ... later you say we can't know so maybe we have minor communication issue

The good angels know of sin and do not do it so it is possible to know of sin and not have sinned.
Eve must know what "disobey" meant. If Eve (or Adam) don't know what sin is then from their perspective they are being punished for an amoral decision.

Disobedience to God does not require man's knowledge that it is a sin for it to be a sin.

Agreed. Though I believe God's punishment is lessened if we are ignorant.

Scripture is silent on that, only to say that she was deceived. We simply cannot relate her world to our world. We simply believe what God says. That is not to say, that applications to our world cannot be made.

Agreed

 

[JIM]

There is no way to go beyond what it says when it says God gave every green plant as food for everything that has breath, and says nothing more about it. All we know beyond that is what began to happen and what is still happening, that involves creatures devouring other creatures. The when, how, and why speculation is what is going beyond what it says. So don't expand the words or the conversation into a whole other territory.

Now see, you have not just stated what the Bible says; rather, you gave us what you think it means. It only says that all the plants are good for food. It doesn't say that was the only food. It doesn't say that there were not carnivores there to eat other flesh, or gnats or flies, or bugs, etc. You have assumed that something happened to turn some critters into carnivores. You have given us what you think. You have assumed that there was no physical death in the Garden. It doesn't say that anywhere.

And of course, you could be right. I don't think so, but you could be.

 

[Arial]

Now see, you have not just stated what the Bible says; rather, you gave us what you think it means. It only says that all the plants are good for food. It doesn't say that was the only food. It doesn't say that there were not carnivores there to eat other flesh, or gnats or flies, or bugs, etc. You have assumed that something happened to turn some critters into carnivores. You have given us what you think. You have assumed that there was no physical death in the Garden. It doesn't say that anywhere.

And of course, you could be right. I don't think so, but you could be.

People carry on arguing about the silliest things.

Maybe you are simply not reading it carefully enough. I will set it before you and we needn't talk about it anymore. (At least I am not taking anything out of of it putting any thing into it that isn't there.)
30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.”

 

[Alive]

People carry on arguing about the silliest things.

Maybe you are simply not reading it carefully enough. I will set it before you and we needn't talk about it anymore. (At least I am not taking anything out of of it putting any thing into it that isn't there.)
30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.”

Yes if He meant to include meat protein there, He would have.
Appealing to an omission as a proof is not a strong position, IMO.

 

[Arial]

How could you know that? ... later you say we can't know so maybe we have minor communication issue

Sin is evil and evil is the absence of good, and everything was created good and she had no knowledge of evil. That is how I can say that.

The good angels know of sin and do not do it so it is possible to know of sin and not have sinned.

We are
given no information on the creating of or history of angels.

If Eve (or Adam) don't know what sin is then from their perspective they are being punished for an amoral decision.

They knew God, and they had to have known Him as their creator and King (in a manner of speaking.) They knew the meaning of "you may." and the meaning of "you may not." They are a moral agent so no decision is amoral. 99.9% of the problem in communicating these things that we are doing here, is that we are doing so with the English language and the manner of communication between God and Adam and Eve is not mentioned. The only one we are privy to is God giving them instructions and what went on after they ate the forbidden fruit. We cannot see into the mind of Adam or Eve.

 

[Arial]

To be a slave to sin is to personify sin as a Master, a God, a prince.

What?!

 

[Arial]

God sent His son in the likeness of sinful flesh so the sin in the flesh could be condemned. “He” was destoyed when the flesh of Christ was destoyed. But “he” still lives in our flesh.

“In me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing”

He is either destroyed or he is not destroyed. Satan was defeated at the cross as to any power he has over the believer to condemn them. He will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

 

[Arial]

To be a slave to sin is to personify sin as a Master, a God, a prince.

To be a slave to sin is to be in bondage to it.

 

[LeviR]

What?!

No one can serve two Gods(Masters) He either serves the flesh with its desire of never being satisfied or the true God.

The God of this world is the God of their own desires.
The true God is the God of righteousness.

Luk 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon.
-Jesus (a meek, humble, poor slave of God)

Mammon is riches. Mammon says “I want more, I don’t have enough. All the other trees are good but I want all the trees”

 

[CrowCross]

Gen 3:6-9. THE FALL.

6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food--Her imagination and feelings were completely won; and the fall of Eve was soon followed by that of Adam. The history of every temptation, and of every sin, is the same; the outward object of attraction, the inward commotion of mind, the increase and triumph of passionate desire; ending in the degradation, slavery, and ruin of the soul ( Jam 1:15 1Jo 2:16 ). - Robert Jamieson

Eve had the ability to sin...not a sin nature. When presented with the "apple"...she bit. (pun intended). -CrowCross.

 

[CrowCross]

@CrowCross

a. So when the woman saw: Eve surrendered to this temptation in exactly the way John describes in 1 John 2:16. First, she gave in to the lust of the flesh (saw that it was good for food), then she gave in to the lust of the eyes (pleasant to the eyes), then she gave in to the pride of life (desirable to make one wise).- David Guzik

All which came about when she was standing under the Tree with the serpent. The concept never entered into her mind until she was sold a bad bill of goods. -CrowCross

 

[LeviR]

Eve had the ability to sin...not a sin nature. When presented with the "apple"...she bit. (pun intended). -CrowCross.

IOW, you are saying Eve didn’t have sinful flesh, cause that’s what sin nature means.

That means Adam sinned in a different way, with different flesh, than the rest of man.

That also means that Adam was tempted in a different way than we and Jesus are/was tempted.
We and Jesus are/was tempted when drawn away and enticed by our own desires. Jesus was tempted in all points as we are.
Jesus didn’t desire to obey the flesh ( the flesh has its own desires) but that doesn’t mean it didn’t test him.
The biggest test came just before he had to go to Jerusalem to be killed. His flesh recoiled of the idea to the point his sweat was like drops of blood. Luke 22:44
He even asked his Father if there might be another way than what his flesh had to face.

You are saying Adam was a totally different kind of thing than Jesus was and the rest of us are.

How did you come to buy that?

 

[LeviR]

All which came about when she was standing under the Tree with the serpent. The concept never entered into her mind until she was sold a bad bill of goods. -CrowCross

Adam wasn’t sold “a bad bill of goods”. Eve was deceived, Adam wasn’t .
The bad bill of goods Adam bought was from his own desire.

 

[JIM]

People carry on arguing about the silliest things.

Maybe you are simply not reading it carefully enough. I will set it before you and we needn't talk about it anymore. (At least I am not taking anything out of of it putting any thing into it that isn't there.)
30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.”

My point is that you didn't and you don't simply present what is written. You always provide commentary just as you did in the post I responded to. There is nothing wrong with that. But please do not deceive yourself and try to deceive others by adding commentary and telling us that is the word of God. Unless you quote from the Bible and leave it at that and nothing more, it is not just God's word.

 

[Alive]

My point is that you didn't and you don't simply present what is written. You always provide commentary just as you did in the post I responded to. There is nothing wrong with that. But please do not deceive yourself and try to deceive others by adding commentary and telling us that is the word of God. Unless you quote from the Bible and leave it at that and nothing more, it is not just God's word.

I understand what you mean, but we all by necessity, remark about what we think it means.

 

[JIM]

Yes if He meant to include meat protein there, He would have.
Appealing to an omission as a proof is not a strong position, IMO.

Correct, God has not, in that verse, included meat as food. But neither has God, in that verse, precluded meat as food.

 

[Alive]

Correct, God has not, in that verse, included meat as food. But neither has God, in that verse, precluded meat as food.

So some think it’s there when it isn’t and others think it’s not there so it isn’t.

 

[JIM]

So some think it’s there when it isn’t and others think it’s not there so it isn’t.

What do some think is there that isn't?

 

[Alive]

What do some think is there that isn't?

Meat eaters in the garden.