The profit of spiritual gifts?

[Wordsmith]

I do not doubt the experiences, but scripture reproves it as not of Him at all but a work of iniquity as many are led astray by them.

Ok, so you are saying I was not healed by the Sprit of God and if I testify of it , it does not glorify Christ?

Are you sayin satan gave Marquita (from the video) two eyes to led them astray?

I really hope not but if that is what you really believe just come right out and say it so I really know where you stand!

 

[ChristB4us]

Ok, so you are saying I was not healed by the Sprit of God and if I testify of it , it does not glorify Christ?

@Carbon

So you gave the credit and the glory of that healing to the Spirit of God and thereby promote that movement of the "spirit" rather than the preaching of the cross and you still do not see the offense?

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So ask yourself Who was glorified more by that healing? That movement of the spirit or by that preaching of the cross; Jesus Christ, the Good News to man? BTW You cannot do both as there is only one gospel & therefore only one calling.

Are you sayin satan gave Marquita (from the video) two eyes to led them astray?

I really hope not but if that is what you really believe just come right out and say it so I really know where you stand!

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

"Ecstatic language was a common form of worship in pagan temples.i It was well established in Ancient Byblos (1100 BC). Plato (429-347 BC) mentions it as a phenomenon in his time. He tells us that a person under divine possession received utterances and visions that the receiver did not understand.

These utterances were sometimes accompanied by physical healing of people present. Virgil (70-19 BC) tells us that the Sibylline priestess, when in prayer, united her spirit with the god Apollo and spoke in strange tongues.ii" end of quote from link
What did Jesus warned you about?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Did you know that in Voodooism, they have ways to cast our devils also? Bill Rudge Ministries will testify to that when he was in Haiti. He was witnessing one from a short distance and did not care to go near them or get involve with that.

As it is, we are to test the spirits. HOW you got that healing testifies to who or what you are serving to glorify by in promoting and from what I can tell from your testimony, it is the movement of the spirit that you seek t glorify and not the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ..

 

[Wordsmith]

So you gave the credit and the glory of that healing to the Spirit of God and thereby promote that movement of the "spirit" rather than the preaching of the cross and you still do not see the offense?

Do you believe the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one? If so your statement above is playing word games and is nonsense. No offense here.

 

[Agra Man]

I do not know anyone who believes that the gifts are still active in the church who believes they are possessed by and operated at their own whims. That is usually and argument proposed by detractors. They are gifts of and by the Spirit using willing vessels as the Spirit wills.

There is of course those who try to force the gifts so many fake tongues are the perfect example. But there is also another side of the coin where you don't force it you do it as an act of faith you take the step whether it is needed or not and that is when you really start operating with him.

Faith is a verb an action taken you step out in faith not knowing why or if it is needed but in faith you already assume it is. This is when your understanding what walking in faith is not simply acting but walking.

 

[Agra Man]

@Carbon

So you gave the credit and the glory of that healing to the Spirit of God and thereby promote that movement of the "spirit" rather than the preaching of the cross and you still do not see the offense?

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So ask yourself Who was glorified more by that healing? That movement of the spirit or by that preaching of the cross; Jesus Christ, the Good News to man? BTW You cannot do both as there is only one gospel & therefore only one calling.

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

"Ecstatic language was a common form of worship in pagan temples.i It was well established in Ancient Byblos (1100 BC). Plato (429-347 BC) mentions it as a phenomenon in his time. He tells us that a person under divine possession received utterances and visions that the receiver did not understand.

These utterances were sometimes accompanied by physical healing of people present. Virgil (70-19 BC) tells us that the Sibylline priestess, when in prayer, united her spirit with the god Apollo and spoke in strange tongues.ii" end of quote from link
What did Jesus warned you about?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Did you know that in Voodooism, they have ways to cast our devils also? Bill Rudge Ministries will testify to that when he was in Haiti. He was witnessing one from a short distance and did not care to go near them or get involve with that.

As it is, we are to test the spirits. HOW you got that healing testifies to who or what you are serving to glorify by in promoting and from what I can tell from your testimony, it is the movement of the spirit that you seek t glorify and not the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ..

The holy spirit will not be mocked nor diminished for you know that the spirit of truth is the spirit and our Lord Christ himself testifies and boasts of him. Foolish man do you not see the offense? You dare speak down the hoyl one that has been annointed on your person? who he himself testifies and glorifies Jesus Christ and the father he himself is the mouth piece of our Lord you barren child.


Do you know what it means to blashpemy the holy spirit? The king of kings will come in his might and glory but first he is sending a wave that will knowck you down on your knees and you will humble yourself before the one you have offended.

His children will be annointed unlike anything you have ever read or seen the harvest will eb their field the sword of truth shall be their scythe and upon an unbelieving foolish geeneration the glory and name of our Lord will remind this world why he is God


You seperate the spirit from God and us ignorance such as this is why6 he is shaking everything up it is why he will send forth such children

We are to be one with him in spirit and truth the holy spirit and Jesus Christ the truth the father is glorified and recieves prife as insense his being is one we are to be one and when the body copmes back to life there will be no more speration not flesh and spirt but spirit and the flesh of the spirit the perfect image of Jesus Christ himself.


If I am banned so be it but I will not stand by and allow you to speak such horridence things the amount of offence cannot be expressed.
Repent and humble yourself

 

[ChristB4us]

Do you believe the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one?

Yes, but irrelevant for how we are to come to God the father by the only way provided and that is His Son and by only honoring the Son, is how you can only honor the Father.

There are sinners engaging with spirits in the world and the Father would call those sinners away from those spirits how? By providing only one way to approach Him and that is why all scripture has invitations in coming to the Son for that life with the Father for why Jesus is the Bridegroom.

The American Indians dance and chant for the "Great Spirit" to come, When alcohol was introduced to them, it reminded them of communing with the Great Spirit. So how can God call those sinners away from those spirits? How can God keep Christians from those spirits?

If so your statement above is playing word games and is nonsense. No offense here.

Do you believe the Azusa Street Revival is of God?

Do you believe the holy laughter movement is of God?

Do you believe slain in the spirit is of God?

Do you believe being drunk in the spirit is of God?

Do you believe in "another" baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues for saved believers to seek after or can experience?

If you say no to any of those questions, those phenomenon was also found in Azusa Street Revival. FYI And so no tree can produce an evil fruit and no good tree can produce a good fruit and so that true as in that route & direction they took by placing the emphasis on the Holy Spirit which the Holy Spirit in them would NEVER do, is why God permit those delusion to occur as they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit by a sign and various other signs too again and again and again.

So may the Lord help you take a step back and see the err because there is such a thing as a Catholic Charismatic Church and yet in spite of all of those manifestations, the Lord never reproved them of the works of Catholicism through the Holy Spirit in them because they are not listening to Him

 

[ChristB4us]

The holy spirit will not be mocked nor diminished for you know that the spirit of truth is the spirit and our Lord Christ himself testifies and boasts of him. Foolish man do you not see the offense? You dare speak down the hoyl one that has been annointed on your person? who he himself testifies and glorifies Jesus Christ and the father he himself is the mouth piece of our Lord you barren child.

Jesus said this below:

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

So how can the Holy Spirit lead a believer to speak of Himself in seeking His own glory without inferring unrighteousness in Himself as the Holy Spirit? He would not do that.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Do you know what it means to blashpemy the holy spirit? The king of kings will come in his might and glory but first he is sending a wave that will knowck you down on your knees and you will humble yourself before the one you have offended.

If I am doing what scripture testifying of what the Holy Spirit in me is leading me to do, then how can it be blasphemy?

if I am doing what the Holy Spirit has been sent to dwell within me to do, then how can I be blaspheming Him when He is doing the same thing as only honoring the Son, testifying of the Son in order to glorify the Son and thereby the Father?

His children will be annointed unlike anything you have ever read or seen the harvest will eb their field the sword of truth shall be their scythe and upon an unbelieving foolish geeneration the glory and name of our Lord will remind this world why he is God


You seperate the spirit from God and us ignorance such as this is why6 he is shaking everything up it is why he will send forth such children

We are to be one with him in spirit and truth the holy spirit and Jesus Christ the truth the father is glorified and recieves prife as insense his being is one we are to be one and when the body copmes back to life there will be no more speration not flesh and spirt but spirit and the flesh of the spirit the perfect image of Jesus Christ himself.

If I am banned so be it but I will not stand by and allow you to speak such horridence things the amount of offence cannot be expressed.
Repent and humble yourself

Well, I doubt you will be banned as this unbiblical practice is in every church now and so that is why so many in the last days DO NOT see the gate for what Jesus is to strive to enter so as to avoid the iniquity of climbing up another and broad way. Many will be left behind.

So pretty much every one is doubting His words that Jesus Himself is the only way to the Father John 14:6 & that by only honoring the Son is how we are to honor the father because when we are NOT honoring the Son; we are not honoring the Father... period. John 5:22-23

 

[Wordsmith]

Did you know that in Voodooism, they have ways to cast our devils also? Bill Rudge Ministries will testify to that when he was in Haiti. He was witnessing one from a short distance and did not care to go near them or get involve with that.

No I didn’t know satan could cast out satan and you don’t either! Here is what Jesus said about it.

Luke 11:17-19​

17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.​

18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. Here is what James said about it.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. You keep attributing good and perfect gifts from God to evil spirits, voodoo and by extension to satan! Where does that leave you and your confused doctrine? Tell us where in scripture we can find satan healing the sick and actually casting out devils? Where in scripture does satan raise the dead? Satan did not heal me , satan did not give Marquita new eyes. You are ignorantly spewing venom thinking you know what you are talking about, but you are treading on dangerous ground trying to convince people good and perfect gifts from God are from the evil one. My prayer is for God to enlighten you as to what He had provided for His church. Bill Rudge can testify to witnessing devils cast out devils and you believe him then someone testifies of the goodness of God and it’s done by evil spirits in your messed up theology. You have Zero chance of convincing me of anything to do with scripture. I only engage error like yours in the hope of preventing some innocent young Christian from falling into this error.

 

[Wordsmith]

So you gave the credit and the glory of that healing to the Spirit of God and thereby promote that movement of the "spirit" rather than the preaching of the cross and you still do not see the offense?

I am trying to give you every opportunity to make sense but you keep making statements like the above. How does Christ operate in our lives today?

1. John 14:26
   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever Ihave said unto you.
2. John 15:26
   But when the Comforter is come, whom I willsendunto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
3. John 16:7
   Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. I am not promoting a “movement” , I only tell what happened to me and others I knew personally. Paul wrote of the gifts God placed in the church, Jesus sent the comforter to the church. Those two facts produce good results for God’s children when allowed to operate. You accuse me of some sin for testifying of the Goodness of God. My brother read your Bible and believe what is says.

 

[Josheb]

What would be the profit of these spiritual gifts today?
Now it's obvious what benefit the gift of healing would be. But I do not believe there is a person who possesses this gift.

Thoughts?

Well.....

I think the discussion is going to get muddy very quickly because there is a plethora of gifts not limited to those listed in the texts cited and unless the discussion is selective and attending to one, two, or a small group of specific gifts then there will be dozens of conversations going that increasingly diverge from this opening post.

The being said, I'll offer an anecdotal account of what I believe to have been a word of knowledge gifted from God.

Many, many years ago I lived in and ran a group home for men with what we now call "developmental disabilities." Back then it was called "mental retardation." I lived with three men whose IQs were, respectively, 70, 55, and 45. The man with the 45 IQ rarely spoke. When he did speak in interpersonal exchange the only things he ever said were, "I hope," and "I don't know." I do not know whether anyone beside me had ever discovered "I hope," meant "yes," or some other affirmative response, and "I don't know" meant, "no," or some other negative response. I knew the man could speak because despite his low IQ he was a voracious reader and he often read out loud with impressive enunciation. One day a situation arose where a certain necessity for him to answer for himself and my getting frustrated with the staus quo intersected and I asked God to help me know what to say to effect an outcome (whatever that might be).

At this point let me digress because most of you know I'm a (recently retired) psychologist and as such I am well aware of how easy it is for a person to attribute their own thinking to God (and thereby justify no end of misguided belief and action). I get it. I'm a skeptic. A skeptic with faith . What I'm currently posted could all be an imagination of my figment, but I firmly believe what ensued was from God.

I heard the voice, or had the thought (I'll let the reader decide), "Tell him it is okay to say, 'no,'" and that's what I did. "Fred, it's okay to say 'no.'" and Fred (not his real name) yelled, "NO!" Never in all my years before then nor afterwards did I ever hear Fred yell, much less yell as loud as he did that day. That one episode led to a huge change in Fred's life because after that Fred began to talk. First it was in clipped partial-sentences, then full sentences, then entire (but small) paragraphs, then conversation with others beside myself. I once had a discussion with the guy who had an IQ of 45 about the distinction between sacrifice and crucified and he followed the scriptures and the logic! I later learned that Fred had been "warehoused." His family, an otherwise loving, supported, and devoted family had set up a room on their home where Fred grew up with a television, comics, magazines, books, and a lounge chair so that when the family had to go out and couldn't/wouldn't take Fred with them, he could sit in comfort and occupy himself. He spent hours in a room with nothing more than a television for social stimulation every day of his youth. He was about 40 years old when I met him.​

That one moment where he was given permission to disagree changed his life.




So don't any of you ever think I don't like disagreement.

Word.

 

[civic]

Well.....

I think the discussion is going to get muddy very quickly because there is a plethora of gifts not limited to those listed in the texts cited and unless the discussion is selective and attending to one, two, or a small group of specific gifts then there will be dozens of conversations going that increasingly diverge from this opening post.

The being said, I'll offer an anecdotal account of what I believe to have been a word of knowledge gifted from God.

Many, many years ago I lived in and ran a group home for men with what we now call "developmental disabilities." Back then it was called "mental retardation." I lived with three men whose IQs were, respectively, 70, 55, and 45. The man with the 45 IQ rarely spoke. When he did speak in interpersonal exchange the only things he ever said were, "I hope," and "I don't know." I do not know whether anyone beside me had ever discovered "I hope," meant "yes," or some other affirmative response, and "I don't know" meant, "no," or some other negative response. I knew the man could speak because despite his low IQ he was a voracious reader and he often read out loud with impressive enunciation. One day a situation arose where a certain necessity for him to answer for himself and my getting frustrated with the staus quo intersected and I asked God to help me know what to say to effect an outcome (whatever that might be).​

​

At this point let me digress because most of you know I'm a (recently retired) psychologist and as such I am well aware of how easy it is for a person to attribute their own thinking to God (and thereby justify no end of misguided belief and action). I get it. I'm a skeptic. A skeptic with faith . What I'm currently posted could all be an imagination of my figment, but I firmly believe what ensued was from God.​

​

I heard the voice, or had the thought (I'll let the reader decide), "Tell him it is okay to say, 'no,'" and that's what I did. "Fred, it's okay to say 'no.'" and Fred (not his real name) yelled, "NO!" Never in all my years before then nor afterwards did I ever hear Fred yell, much less yell as loud as he did that day. That one episode led to a huge change in Fred's life because after that Fred began to talk. First it was in clipped partial-sentences, then full sentences, then entire (but small) paragraphs, then conversation with others beside myself. I once had a discussion with the guy who had an IQ of 45 about the distinction between sacrifice and crucified and he followed the scriptures and the logic! I later learned that Fred had been "warehoused." His family, an otherwise loving, supported, and devoted family had set up a room on their home where Fred grew up with a television, comics, magazines, books, and a lounge chair so that when the family had to go out and couldn't/wouldn't take Fred with them, he could sit in comfort and occupy himself. He spent hours in a room with nothing more than a television for social stimulation every day of his youth. He was about 40 years old when I met him.​

That one moment where he was given permission to disagree changed his life.




So don't any of you ever think I don't like disagreement.

Word.

I love that story. The past decade I have worked in senior living which included dementia and Alzheimer's. I have seen/witnessed similar things when they have come to live in our community that surrounds them with love and acceptance with that disease. Its difficult for families to accept that with their loved ones and most do not know how to interact and redirect them and "get into their world" with them.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ChristB4us]

No I didn’t know satan could cast out satan and you don’t either! Here is what Jesus said about it.

Luke 11:17-19​

17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.​

18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

Continue reading;

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

When a believer is saved, any unclean spirits or otherwise, will be cast out by the finger of Jesus Christ as the Father & the Son sends & baptizes the sinner with the Holy Ghost at salvation.

Now if a sinner gets delivered by Satanic rudiments in the world, with no Holy Spirit in him, that spirit could return with 7 more spirits.

BUT if a saved believer believes the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again, God will permit that strong delusion to occur by removing the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, even though the Holy Spirit is still in them.

Here is what James said about it.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. You keep attributing good and perfect gifts from God to evil spirits, voodoo and by extension to satan! Where does that leave you and your confused doctrine? Tell us where in scripture we can find satan healing the sick and actually casting out devils?

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where in scripture does satan raise the dead?

None, but I do not believe you mentioned any of that phenomenon and so that is moot.

Satan did not heal me , satan did not give Marquita new eyes.

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

"These utterances were sometimes accompanied by physical healing of people present. Virgil (70-19 BC) tells us that the Sibylline priestess, when in prayer, united her spirit with the god Apollo and spoke in strange tongues.ii "

You are ignorantly spewing venom thinking you know what you are talking about, but you are treading on dangerous ground trying to convince people good and perfect gifts from God are from the evil one. My prayer is for God to enlighten you as to what He had provided for His church. Bill Rudge can testify to witnessing devils cast out devils and you believe him then someone testifies of the goodness of God and it’s done by evil spirits in your messed up theology. You have Zero chance of convincing me of anything to do with scripture. I only engage error like yours in the hope of preventing some innocent young Christian from falling into this error.

What does the indwelling holy Spirit do? He testifies of the Son to glorify the Son through us. John 15:26-26 & John 16:14

What does the spirits of the antichrist do? Take your eyes off of the Son to their visitations with signs and wonders.

 

[ChristB4us]

I am trying to give you every opportunity to make sense but you keep making statements like the above. How does Christ operate in our lives today?

1. John 14:26
   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever Ihave said unto you.
2. John 15:26
   But when the Comforter is come, whom I willsendunto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
3. John 16:7
   Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. I am not promoting a “movement” , I only tell what happened to me and others I knew personally. Paul wrote of the gifts God placed in the church, Jesus sent the comforter to the church. Those two facts produce good results for God’s children when allowed to operate. You accuse me of some sin for testifying of the Goodness of God. My brother read your Bible and believe what is says.

The Holy Spirit will not take your eyes off of the Son by putting the spotlight on Himself with visitations of signs and wonders when He is in you always.

But the spirits of the antichrist will do that.

By attributing manifestations of the devil which was in the world before Pentecost TO the Holy Spirit, is you calling that evil "good" & it is not.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Anyone that seeks the spirit, is not seeking Jesus Christ in relating to God the Father by Him.

 

[Wordsmith]

The Holy Spirit will not take your eyes off of the Son by putting the spotlight on Himself with visitations of signs and wonders when He is in you always.

The Holy Spirit has a role in the church in our day. One of those roles is the operation of the Gifts of the Spirit. You seem hung up on the idea that any mention of that is a form of worship of the Holy Sprit. Not so!

Ephesians 4:7-9​

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

You also seem to promote the idea that any miraculous manifestation can only distract from Jesus which in my opinion is absurd. Jesus was the miracle worker. Every miracle in scripture was not a sign to prove God's deity to unbelievers.

Your crusade against gifts of the Spirit only detracts from what Christ accomplished on the cross. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit as a comforter and that entails much more than what your doctrine acknowledges.

1. Teacher. 1 Corinthians 2;13 Luke 12:12
2. Seals the believer Ephesians 1:13
3. Sanctifier Romans 15:16
4. Giver of joy, peace and hope Romans 15:13. 1 Thessalonians 1:6
5. Washing and regeneration Titus
6. Manifests the gifts of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12:7

You have no scriptural authority to remove any of these functions from scripture.


1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

You can cut these passages out of your Bible but you will never remove them from mine or others that will not allow it.

 

[ChristB4us]

The Holy Spirit has a role in the church in our day. One of those roles is the operation of the Gifts of the Spirit. You seem hung up on the idea that any mention of that is a form of worship of the Holy Sprit. Not so!

Ephesians 4:7-9​

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

You also seem to promote the idea that any miraculous manifestation can only distract from Jesus which in my opinion is absurd. Jesus was the miracle worker. Every miracle in scripture was not a sign to prove God's deity to unbelievers.

Your crusade against gifts of the Spirit only detracts from what Christ accomplished on the cross. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit as a comforter and that entails much more than what your doctrine acknowledges.

1. Teacher. 1 Corinthians 2;13 Luke 12:12
2. Seals the believer Ephesians 1:13
3. Sanctifier Romans 15:16
4. Giver of joy, peace and hope Romans 15:13. 1 Thessalonians 1:6
5. Washing and regeneration Titus
6. Manifests the gifts of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12:7

You have no scriptural authority to remove any of these functions from scripture.


1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

You can cut these passages out of your Bible but you will never remove them from mine or others that will not allow it.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first....

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Paul exposes what that lie is by reminding believers of the tradition taught of us.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

That is Paul saying there is only one time you will receive the Holy Spirit and that is at your salvation at the calling of the gospel when you had first believed.

Now I ask you, brother, if you believe we are in the latter days before the Bridegroom comes, then where is this falling away from the faith in the churches if it is not what the scripture has led me to believe that is what you are involved in?

Where is it regarding signs and wonders if it is not that?

 

[ChristB4us]

@Wordsmith

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

 

[TB2]

BUT if a saved believer believes the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again, God will permit that strong delusion to occur by removing the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, even though the Holy Spirit is still in them

Who believes that? I don't know anyone who believes you receive the Spirit again and again and again.

That is Paul saying there is only one time you will receive the Holy Spirit and that is at your salvation at the calling of the gospel when you had first believed.

Correct. We receive the Spirit once. But then what? Does the Spirit then just sit there inside us, dead and quiet, doing nothing? Or is the Spirit active and alive and God's empowering presence within us? Receiving the Spirit is not the end, but the beginning. If the Christian life is anything, it's life in the Spirit. The Christian life is the Spirit-filled life. And Ephesians 5.18 gives the imperative command "to be filled with the Spirit." The verb is in the present tense, indicating that we are to be filled with the Spirit continually. That is different from the initial reception of the Holy Spirit. How do we know this? Because in Ephesians Paul is writing to Christians who already have the Holy Spirit. So, this is not about initial Holy Spirit receiving, but Holy Spirit living.

As New Testament scholar Gordon Fee put it in his book God's Empowering Presence which is an in depth biblical exegesis of every reference to the Holy Spirit in Paul’s epistles: “One reads Paul poorly who does not recognize that for him the presence of the Spirit, as an experienced and living reality, was the crucial matter for Christian life, from beginning to end.”

 

[TB2]

Now I ask you, brother, if you believe we are in the latter days before the Bridegroom comes

I, for one, do! In fact, we've been in the "last days" since the Day of Pentecost. And as Peter said in Acts 2.16-21, the promised Holy Spirit is what was prophesied by Joel that in "the last days, God says I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

It doesn't make sense for the "last days" to start back on the Day of Pentecost and then for that to change. There is no Scripture that says God will pour out His Spirit in the last days (including prophecy, visions, dreams), but then take the Spirit back in the "last, 'last days'," and then pour out the Spirit again.

16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[Carbon]

I, for one, do! In fact, we've been in the "last days" since the Day of Pentecost. And as Peter said in Acts 2.16-21, the promised Holy Spirit is what was prophesied by Joel that in "the last days, God says I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

It doesn't make sense for the "last days" to start back on the Day of Pentecost and then for that to change. There is no Scripture that says God will pour out His Spirit in the last days (including prophecy, visions, dreams), but then take the Spirit back in the "last, 'last days'," and then pour out the Spirit again.

Thats a breath of fresh air!

I believe the last days set in when Christ came.

 

[Wordsmith]

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This is getting old. Are you implying that the devil healed me and that I was seduced by evil spirits in that revival meeting? I surly hope not, if so you are way out of your pay grade here.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first....

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Paul exposes what that lie is by reminding believers of the tradition taught of us.

No mention of a lie pertaining to the gifts of the spirit. You have imagined that!

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

That is Paul saying there is only one time you will receive the Holy Spirit and that is at your salvation at the calling of the gospel when you had first believed.

First of all I have not been discussing the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" you are making a lot of assumptions and trying to speak with authority.

This may come as a shock to you but I believe there are people used in the gifts of the Spirit who have just sought God and would not claim to have been "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" as a second work of grace.

Now I ask you, brother, if you believe we are in the latter days before the Bridegroom comes, then where is this falling away from the faith in the churches if it is not what the scripture has led me to believe that is what you are involved in?

I am so very thankful you are not my judge. You should rethink claiming the Holy Spirit led you to believe I am part of the falling away because I testify of a healing you cannot accept as real. The scripture says "depart from the faith" not depart from your approved doctrine.

Where is it regarding signs and wonders if it is not that?

You are confused on this topic!