The pope of Rome the antichrist?

[Carbon]

This person would blaspheme God and His church, And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Rev 13:5-6

@CrowCross Consider this. Antichrist would wage war against the saints. Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, Rev 13:7.
Also, 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Rev 13.

Have you ever studied into the CC and the activity of her pope? Does not the pope oppose the church? The pope has murdered many saints because of their profession and witness. Do you realize how many hundreds of thousands have lost their lives by order of the pope? "Who but the pope has become drunk with the blood of the saints."
In the dark ages, all who did not acknowledge the pope as the head of the church, and would not confess to be a Catholic, and those who would not go to Mass and worship the bread god, or carry a chaplet or cross with popish engravings or style, were expelled, their businesses were taken away, they weren't allowed to sell or trade, and they were all subject to tortures, prisons, and all sorts of things. many think this bears witness that the pope is the antichrist.

 

[Carbon]

The Lord did not appoint the office of "Pope" (Father); that is a man-made invention.

Amen

 

[Carbon]

I am not sure. Are we talking about the figurehead in the future that folks call "The Antichrist?"

Couldn't it have been one of the Neros as well?

You may be right. But, from looking into these things I think the pope resembles the antichrist, like a mirror image. In first John for example, he goes back and forth from singular to plural when discussing the antichrist. Which seems to explain all the popes and finally resting on the last pope, whoever and whenever this is.

 

[Carbon]

Interesting fact. As if he really had a say in these things.. The connection between Peter and the bishop of Rome (the pope) didn't become fully explicit until Leo the Great came on the scene in the mid-fifth century 440-461. Pope Leo insisted (as Christ's Victor) that Peter continued to speak to the whole church through the bishops of Rome.

 

[Carbon]

Interesting fact. As if he really had a say in these things.. The connection between Peter and the bishop of Rome (the pope) didn't become fully explicit until Leo the Great came on the scene in the mid-fifth century 440-461. Pope Leo insisted (as Christ's Victor) that Peter continued to speak to the whole church through the bishops of Rome.

Obviously, pope Leo was on a power trip.

 

[Carbon]

Any honest RC should also admit the fact that it wasn't until the late second-century that Catholic tradition came to regard Peter as the first bishop of Rome. It was Linus, not Peter, who was first considered in the earliest succession lists to be the first pope. There has always been much division. If any Catholic wants to disagree, it would be good to actually check into this first.

 

[Carbon]

Consider the antichrist would live in great luster and pomp. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. Rev 17:4.


Consider this next passage while considering the pope and his followers having purple for his and his Cardinals color.

12 cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble,

16
“Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
Rev 18.

 

[Carbon]

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Tim 4:1, 3.

Who forbids marriage? Who abstains from eating meat on certain days?

 

[Carbon]

This all reminds me of "The Trail of Blood" pamphlet that the fundy Baptists passed around which was written by J.M. Carrol.

It "proved" that the Baptists of today went all the way back to the apostles making them "the one true church." It is the fundy "apostolic succession" if you will.

It is all superstition and is used as if we need a human trail to the cross to be legit. The problem is it supplants Christ and what He has done as sufficient.

Yes, I remember that pamphlet. It was given to me by a Baptist years ago. I thought it was... um.. well ya know.

 

[CrowCross]

@CrowCross Consider this. Antichrist would wage war against the saints. Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, Rev 13:7.
Also, 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Rev 13.

Have you ever studied into the CC and the activity of her pope? Does not the pope oppose the church? The pope has murdered many saints because of their profession and witness. Do you realize how many hundreds of thousands have lost their lives by order of the pope? "Who but the pope has become drunk with the blood of the saints."
In the dark ages, all who did not acknowledge the pope as the head of the church, and would not confess to be a Catholic, and those who would not go to Mass and worship the bread god, or carry a chaplet or cross with popish engravings or style, were expelled, their businesses were taken away, they weren't allowed to sell or trade, and they were all subject to tortures, prisons, and all sorts of things. many think this bears witness that the pope is the antichrist.

The Pope is operating under the "spirit of the anti-christ"... which 1 John 4:3 says....which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

From what I've heard the Pope is on his last leg...so to speak. Gonna find out the truth real soon.

 

[donadams]

You would really have your work cut out for you to prove such a thing.

One baby step at a time then

Did Christ establish the church?

Yes Christ established the church!

Why did Christ establish the church?

Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19-20

Is the church, the body of Christ, the communion of saints, the household of faith, the kingdom the new and eternal covenant of God?

Yes the church is the new covenant!

Christ the king ascended to heaven, who did He appoint to govern His kingdom?

Christ appointed Peter to govern His kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 21:17

And the apostles in union with Peter! Matt 18:18 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8 eph 2:20

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience to Christ the king and His authorized ministers or spiritual anarchy?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Vicar is from the Latin "vicarius", which means "a substitute, or proxy". So "Substitute for Christ", or "Instead of Christ", or "In place of Christ" are all valid renderings of the meaning of "Vicar of Christ".

Both are true

And that’s good cos Christ ascended to heaven and appointed Peter and the apostles and their successors to administer the kingdom until he returns

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; see Isa 22:21-22
(Keys) Matt 26:17-19

 

[donadams]

The Lord did not appoint the office of "Pope" (Father); that is a man-made invention.

Really? Wow?

And if I believe you wouldn’t that make you an authority? I thought the “Bible was the only authority”?

Reply #56 has my answer

 

[David1701]

I am not sure. Are we talking about the figurehead in the future that folks call "The Antichrist?"

Couldn't it have been one of the Neros as well?

The thing is that the papacy is an unbroken continuation of the spiritual aspects of the latter Roman Caesars. It even has the same title (Pontifex Maximus - a pagan title title given to the latter Roman Caesars, by pagan priests).

 

[David1701]

Really? Wow?

And if I believe you wouldn’t that make you an authority? I thought the “Bible was the only authority”?

Reply #56 has my answer

The Bible is our authority. It says nothing about us having a "Holy Father", other than God, or a "Pontifex Maximus", or a "Vicar of Christ".

 

[CrowCross]

And that’s good cos Christ ascended to heaven and appointed Peter and the apostles and their successors to administer the kingdom until he returns

So, what went wrong?

 

[David1701]

Both are true

And that’s good cos Christ ascended to heaven and appointed Peter and the apostles and their successors to administer the kingdom until he returns

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; see Isa 22:21-22
(Keys) Matt 26:17-19

Men do not appoint apostles; in fact, they don't appoint pastors, teachers or evangelists either. The only offices appointed by the assemblies are elders and deacons.

 

[donadams]

The Bible is our authority. It says nothing about us having a "Holy Father", other than God, or a "Pontifex Maximus", or a "Vicar of Christ".

Matt 16:17
Jesus declares Peter’s person not confession to be blessed!

Peter is the rock chosen by God!

Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

God chose Peter!

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Is Peter’s person blessed or Peter’s confession?
Does Peter’s confession or Peter’s person receive divine revelation?

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

When God changes a man’s name abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel or Simon to Peter it signifies an office!

Is Peter’s person or Peter’s confession who’s name is changed?

And! Peter and rock are the same!

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?

Did the Father send Christ or a confession of Christ?

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ!

Christ sends Peter not his confession!

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone, and instructed peter to minister to the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles in the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

 

[donadams]

Peter always first and singled out!
Leader of the apostles!
Appointed by Christ the Head of the church on earth in Christ’s place till He returns in glory!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Acts 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Peter receives revelation from the father!

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter receives the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority) to govern the church in Christ’s place till he returns in glory!

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Peter takes charge!

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter works miracles

Acts3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.


Peter moved by the power of the Spirit, special anointing!

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,


Peter always first:

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

Peter again:

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Peter first always singled out:

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Acts 10:5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

God made choice among the apostles who would act in the person of Christ and govern His church on earth!

PETER!

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


Note:
Judas already dead, Paul does not become an apostle till acts 9,
Without apostolic succession how are there 12 apostles acts 2:14 Peter and the eleven?

 

[donadams]

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Sorry for the length big subject
Thanks