The MOTHER of All Sin....

[Josheb]

Eve was deceived, Adam was not.

Ding Ding Ding! Give that woman another prize!

Eve came from Adam, Adam did not come from Eve. Being deceived is a result of simple lack of understanding or knowledge. When Adam ate bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh both had their eyes opened to knowledge they should not have had. They saw each other as unclothed and were ashamed. Which is interesting. If they were naked before, and had no shame, and no knowledge of being clothed or even what that was, but instantly tried to cover themselves and hide from God, the question is why did that now become shameful? They were now corrupted. Before they were not. And corruption is pretty ugly, needs to be covered up, and instinctively wants to hide from God.

Nah, it's simpler than that.

2 Corinthians 11:31
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his trickery, your minds will be led astray from sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

1 Timothy 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


What Eve did in a state of deception, Adam did in full possession of his God-given, good, unashamed, sinless, and undeceived faculties. Adam has no excuse. He made excuses, but they were all irresponsible avoidance and gaslighting. If it is true Eve hadn't experienced any adverse effects of her own disobedience, then it is reasonable to infer she might never have done so if it weren't for Adam. He caused her disobedience to take effect and had the temerity to through her under the buss and blame God.

Had he obeyed the first command he'd have never violated the second.

He was NOT created sinful. He did that all on his own and took everyone else down with him.


Romans 5:12-18 (excerpted)
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned..... by the transgression of the one the many died..... by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one..... through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men...

....and women.

How much better might it have been had Adam throne aside the apple and said, "God, please let me stand in her place"? As I said, it's amazing He didn't immolate them on the spot. By His grace, in His wisdom the necessary and perfect sacrifice was already foreknown.

I gotcha covered!

But you are all are going to suffer by your hands in the meantime.​

Romans 3:23-24
...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus...

I'm a big fan of that verse 24 there . Very cool of Him to think ahead . No need whatsoever to create Adam and Eve sinful.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The question was rhetorical. Like when they were asked...where are you?

I don't think God is ever rhetorical, at least, I've never run across a jesting God.
God means what He says and says what He means.
Unchangeable.
A straight line. A straight shooter.

 

[Arial]

Nah, it's simpler than that.

Well-----just wading through cobwebs. Over analyzing. Looking for what else might be there.

What Eve did in a state of deception, Adam did in full possession of his God-given, good, unashamed, sinless, and undeceived faculties. Adam has no excuse. He made excuses, but they were all irresponsible avoidance and gaslighting. If it is true Eve hadn't experienced any adverse effects of her own disobedience, then it is reasonable to infer she might never have done so if it weren't for Adam. He caused her disobedience to take effect and had the temerity to through her under the buss and blame God.

Interesting how quickly and thoroughly he was corrupted. The lying to one's self and God, trying to hide ourselves from God and thinking we can, justifying our own actions, playing the blame game, covering over our sins began.

 

[Josheb]

I don't think God is ever rhetorical, at least, I've never run across a jesting God.

So, you think God literally wants people to cut off their hands and poke out their eyes? When Paul wrote he wished the disruptors in Galatia would emasculate themselves that was God literally advocating self-castration? When Isaiah asks, "Shall I bow down to a block of wood?" or "Is there not a lie in my right hand?" that's not rhetorical? Or how about, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?" Do you think that's a serious question asked without jest?

God means what He says and says what He means.

Yes, and when He means to be rhetorical, He's deliberately rhetorical in His meaning.

Unchangeable.

Assumes rhetorical indicates change. Fail.

A straight line. A straight shooter.

Assumes rhetoric is not straight. Fail.

I don't think God is ever rhetorical, at least, I've never run across a jesting God.

That explains a lot.


The Bible is filled with rhetorical content inspired by God. When He asks Job if Job can command the sun or the moon, or if he knows how to loose or constrain the stars God is not asking a question to which God does not already knows the answer. Neither is He asking Job to answer such questions. They were ALL asked of Job to make Job realize his finitude.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't think God is ever rhetorical, at least, I've never run across a jesting God.
God means what He says and says what He means.
Unchangeable.
A straight line. A straight shooter.

Why would an "all knowing" God have to ask that question?

The question was rhetorical in nature.

 

[Josheb]

Well-----just wading through cobwebs. Over analyzing. Looking for what else might be there.

Interesting how quickly and thoroughly he was corrupted. The lying to one's self and God, trying to hide ourselves from God and thinking we can, justifying our own actions, playing the blame game, covering over our sins began.

God originally made humans good. BUT..... He also made them corruptible, or capable of becoming corrupt, and that is exactly what happened. It happened by the hand of Adam, not God (as this op asserts). By man's own hand mankind is corrupted. Once corrupted, there's no way back apart from Christ crucified and resurrected.

Is it me, or does it look to the rest of you here in this thread like this point, these facts of scripture, is being ignored by the op?

 

[CrowCross]

God originally made humans good. BUT..... He also made them corruptible, or capable of becoming corrupt, and that is exactly what happened. It happened by the hand of Adam, not God (as this op asserts). By man's own hand mankind is corrupted. Once corrupted, there's no way back apart from Christ crucified and resurrected.

Is it me, or does it look to the rest of you here in this thread like this point, these facts of scripture, is being ignored by the op?

There seems to be some who wan to make God sinful....by claiming God created sin.

 

[Arial]

God originally made humans good. BUT..... He also made them corruptible, or capable of becoming corrupt, and that is exactly what happened. It happened by the hand of Adam, not God (as this op asserts). By man's own hand mankind is corrupted. Once corrupted, there's no way back apart from Christ crucified and resurrected.

Is it me, or does it look to the rest of you here in this thread like this point, these facts of scripture, is being ignored by the op?

ANd also mortal. Able to die. It is amazing to me how many fail to see this. Now that he is corrupted he will die, and the end game goal through all that follows in God's plan of redemption is a man both incorruptible and immortal, even though the Bible plainly declares that. And not only that, but it is not just mankind that is being restored but all of creation is, through the redemption of man, through whom it became subject to corruption and death.


Yay for the lions and the lambs, the dogs and the cattle on a thousand hills, the trees and the dirt, etc. etc. etc.

P.S: the OP always ignores any the facts of scripture in all his threads.

 

[Arial]

I don't think God is ever rhetorical, at least, I've never run across a jesting God.

Rhetorical does not mean jesting.

 

[Mr GLee]

Ding Ding Ding! Give that woman another prize!

I would offer. .

If Adam was not deceived who gave him the faith or understand to be deceived and ate just as Eve the false apostle sent by the fathers of lies as A false prophet adding to the living word (neither shall you touch it.

When she touch they both ate Both deceived by the same false prophecy . Man failed to protect the wife .It would seem He did not reveal prophecy the words given to her but hid behind the weaker vessel .

Christ the restorer, the true husband washes his wife with the water of the word. Doctrine that fall from above like rain. Hopefully strengthening the husband to wash their own wives .Again Adam failed.


Ephesians 5:25-27King James Version25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

​

 

[Josheb]

And also mortal. Able to die. It is amazing to me how many fail to see this. Now that he is corrupted he will die, and the end game goal through all that follows in God's plan of redemption is a man both incorruptible and immortal, even though the Bible plainly declares that. And not only that, but it is not just mankind that is being restored but all of creation is, through the redemption of man, through whom it became subject to corruption and death.


Yay for the lions and the lambs, the dogs and the cattle on a thousand hills, the trees and the dirt, etc. etc. etc.

P.S: the OP always ignores any the facts of scripture in all his threads.

Yep.

One point of clarification, though. Humans were made mortal. When God said, "Do not eat.... or you will die," He was speaking of a different kind of death, a death other than physical death. It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment. That dying part has to do with humans being made mortal and corruptible. The judgment has to do with whether or not a person has partaken of the tree of life and not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To die physically when dead in sin is eternally fatal. To die physically dead in Christ is eternally non-fatal. Dead in sin is related to physical death in its corrupting what little life remains in our existence and the hastening thereof.

No one comes to the Father but by Jesus. The tree of life is inescapable and inevitable.

 

[Josheb]

There seems to be some who want to make God sinful....by claiming God created sin.

This is true...

...but I have never perceived that intent from @jeremiah1five. I have heard/read claim God is malevolent and heard/read some crazy theologies asserting a "many Gods" pov where the God we worship just happens to be the victor, and no longer needing to fight He has turned from malevolence to love. Then there are the feminist theologies arguing toxic male hegemony (sin), the Sopia-sts) Gnostics who argue necessity of a feminine part of God to balance His wrath, or the utilitarians who say everything that accomplishes God's plan is good simply because it works. In fact, the latter may be the hardest to debate because they shrug the shoulders at God calling evil good and good evil with a "meh; whatever works." If my memory serves me correctly the argument that will ensue here is there's only one sinless being so it was only a matter of time before A&E misbehaved because they could not have done otherwise...... they were made that way.


Which is why, imo, it's important to discriminate between...

• Impeccable (good and incorruptible and without prior corruption)
• Good (not corrupt)
• Corruptible (capable of becoming corrupt)
• Corrupted (no longer not corrupt; the capability realized or manifested)
• Incorruptible (incapable of becoming corrupt)

The matter is not a simple binary condition. Thinking it is dichotomous is where most err.

 

[Arial]

Yep.

One point of clarification, though. Humans were made mortal. When God said, "Do not eat.... or you will die," He was speaking of a different kind of death, a death other than physical death. It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment. That dying part has to do with humans being made mortal and corruptible. The judgment has to do with whether or not a person has partaken of the tree of life and not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To die physically when dead in sin is eternally fatal. To die physically dead in Christ is eternally non-fatal. Dead in sin is related to physical death in its corrupting what little life remains in our existence and the hastening thereof.

No one comes to the Father but by Jesus. The tree of life is inescapable and inevitable.

I agree with a slight exception. I think it pertained to both types of death, for all things, not just people die a physical death and that is because "lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever." It would be an untenable situation. God subjected the entire creation to futility because of us---of necessity.

 

[Josheb]

I would offer. .

If Adam was not deceived who gave him the faith or understand to be deceived and ate just as Eve the false apostle sent by the fathers of lies as A false prophet adding to the living word (neither shall you touch it.

When she touch they both ate Both deceived by the same false prophecy . Man failed to protect the wife .It would seem He did not reveal prophecy the words given to her but hid behind the weaker vessel .

Christ the restorer, the true husband washes his wife with the water of the word. Doctrine that fall from above like rain. Hopefully strengthening the husband to wash their own wives .Again Adam failed.


Ephesians 5:25-27King James Version25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Indulge me.

Indulge me for a moment by reminding me again of your denominational/sectarian orientation. please. Thx

 

[Josheb]

I agree with a slight exception. I think it pertained to both types of death, for all things, not just people die a physical death and that is because "lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever." It would be an untenable situation. God subjected the entire creation to futility because of us---of necessity.

Let me make sure I understand correctly.

Adam would have died one way or another because he was made mortal.
When God said, "Don't eat or you'll die," He, God, was telling Adam he would die if he, Adam, disobeyed God.

Either way he dies.

 

[Josheb]

I agree with a slight exception. I think it pertained to both types of death, for all things, not just people die a physical death and that is because "lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever." It would be an untenable situation. God subjected the entire creation to futility because of us---of necessity.

Adam would not have lived forever had he never eaten from the tree of life.
Adam would not have lived forever had he never eaten from the tree of life.... whether he disobeyed God or not.

Either way he dies. The difference is between dying dead in sin or dying dead to sin or, dying dead in sin versus dying dead in Christ. Does he die dead, or does he die dead dead ? He's going to die either way.

 

[Mr GLee]

Yep.

One point of clarification, though. Humans were made mortal. When God said, "Do not eat.... or you will die," He was speaking of a different kind of death, a death other than physical death. It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment. That dying part has to do with humans being made mortal and corruptible. The judgment has to do with whether or not a person has partaken of the tree of life and not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To die physically when dead in sin is eternally fatal. To die physically dead in Christ is eternally non-fatal. Dead in sin is related to physical death in its corrupting what little life remains in our existence and the hastening thereof.

No one comes to the Father but by Jesus. The tree of life is inescapable and inevitable.

I would think the moment a spirit leaves there flesh both are dead The temporal spirit returning to the father the flesh to the dust .

Like in dying (70 to 80 years) you are already dead.

The gospel our living God giving new spirit life to the dead


Isaiah 8:19:20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

 

[Arial]

Let me make sure I understand correctly.

Adam would have died one way or another because he was made mortal.
When God said, "Don't eat or you'll die," He, God, was telling Adam he would die if he, Adam, disobeyed God.

Either way he dies.

I suppose it's possible but there it nothing to suggest that he wouldn't eat of the tree of life, and possibly he would not have died had he not disobeyed, regardless of not eating of the tree of life. Death is the penalty for sin. Death is the penalty for becoming corrupted and being corrupt, and not having God dwell with us as He did in the garden. In any case---the Bible does not tell us. Immanuel. God with us. That is the relationship that is being restored through redemption. ANd it is right now, not yet, for the believer.

 

[Carbon]

There seems to be some who wan to make God sinful....by claiming God created sin.

that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the LORD, who does all these things. Isaiah 45

 

[Carbon]

KJV Isaiah 45.
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.