The five points of Arminianism

[atpollard]

I get your point, though I disagree that Hyper-Calvinism makes perfect "logical sense", via TULIP. But I'm glad you made the point. Thank you.

Yeah, I tend towards hyperbole.

 

[Reformedguy]

Well at least he facing the facts. Running off may be the best choice for him.

It was apparently more than he bargained for.

 

[ReverendRV]

And I presume this website was originally made for those of us in the Reformed persuasion? I don't think the Forum banner does justice to that. It gives the impression this website is for every type of heretic and cult!

I think the Forum is for everyone; it's just ran by Calvinists. We should want to be everyone's favorite Christian Forum...

 

[atpollard]

I think the Forum is for everyone; it's just ran by Calvinists. We should want to be everyone's favorite Christian Forum...

Volksgeist ... German for "spirit of a people". Every group has a character unique to that group.

The "volksgeist" here IS "reformed". There are other forums that are "anti-Calvinist" in their "volksgeist" and still others that are "heretic-centric" where the "volksgeist" is "contra-orthodox".

... not good or bad, just "reality"

[I knew all that Cultural Anthropology would come in handy some day.]

 

[Marilyn C]

Clearly, OMNOPOTENT, by its very definition, means that God COULD [is able to] save everyone ... that everyone is not saved must indicate that God chose not to do so. (Who could stop God from doing something? Any being that could stop God, would cause God to stop being God ... thus is an impossibility.) From scripture, "God's Glory" seems to be the purpose for all men ... both those saved and those destined for wrath. I do not pretend to fully understand, I merely accept that "God said it, so it must be true."

Hi atpollard,

I think you are confusing God`s attributes with His essence. Like the song says with a slight variation -

`By God`s power He put the stars in place,
By God`s power He hung the world in space,
But when He saved my soul, cleansed and made me whole,
It took His love and grace. `

 

[atpollard]

Hi atpollard,

I think you are confusing God`s attributes with His essence. Like the song says with a slight variation -

`By God`s power He put the stars in place,
By God`s power He hung the world in space,
But when He saved my soul, cleansed and made me whole,
It took His love and grace. `

I dunno … I think the nature of GOD is that WHO He is and WHAT He is are inseparable. God doesn’t love, God IS LOVE … HE defines what LOVE is. So the Attributes and Essence of God are inseparable.

 

[Marilyn C]

I dunno … I think the nature of GOD is that WHO He is and WHAT He is are inseparable. God doesn’t love, God IS LOVE … HE defines what LOVE is. So the Attributes and Essence of God are inseparable.

Ok, so how about we think and look at God`s word together.

`For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. ` (Rom. 1: 20)

God`s Divine nature - `...God is love.` (1 John 4: 8) (as you rightly said) This love is made up of faithfulness, righteousness, goodness, lovingkindness, graciousness, perfectness, holiness, etc.

When God made the world by His great power He didn`t leave it to operate without Him but continues to uphold it by the word of His power. (Heb. 1: 2 & 3) This reveals His faithfulness.

God made the weather with rain and has it come down upon the just and unjust. God shows no partiality there.

Now let`s look at the `love chapter, 1 Cor. 13.

`Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things. Love never fails.... (1 Cor. 13: 4 - 8)

`Love - does not seek its own...` (v. 5) This brings us to your thought of God having all power -

Quote: "clearly, OMNOPOTENT, by its very definition, means that God COULD [is able to] save everyone ..."
That would mean that God uses His power as a Dictator to over-ride people`s moral behavior.

Moral behavior is developed over time - eg. faithfulness needs time and opportunity. Consequences also need time to become apparent for certain behavior. Man perceives God`s divine nature, (moral nature) and knows he is either obeying or disobeying in his attitude and behavior. For God to over-ride by His power would make man`s moral nature invalid.

 

[JIM]

Are you a Universalist?

No.

 

[atpollard]

Moral behavior is developed over time - eg. faithfulness needs time and opportunity. Consequences also need time to become apparent for certain behavior. Man perceives God`s divine nature, (moral nature) and knows he is either obeying or disobeying in his attitude and behavior. For God to over-ride by His power would make man`s moral nature invalid.

I came to Christianity from Nihilistic Atheism as a criminal (arsonist, drug smuggler), so my POV may be colored by experience different than most. However, I find the truth of human morality absent God's STOMPING on our FREE FALLEN WILL to be this:

"Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else." - Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT]​

As my Pentecostal friends are fond of saying, "But God ...":

"But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. ​

​

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago." - Ephesians 2:4-10 [NLT]​

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I came to Christianity from Nihilistic Atheism as a criminal (arsonist, drug smuggler), so my POV may be colored by experience different than most. However, I find the truth of human morality absent God's STOMPING on our FREE FALLEN WILL to be this:

"Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else." - Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT]​

As my Pentecostal friends are fond of saying, "But God ...":

"But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. ​

​

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago." - Ephesians 2:4-10 [NLT]​

Isn't committing arson related to demon possession?

 

[atpollard]

Isn't committing arson related to demon possession?

Apparently, not always.
Sometimes it just pays the bills or is easier than shooting up a rival gang.

("Better living through chemistry")

 

[Marilyn C]

I came to Christianity from Nihilistic Atheism as a criminal (arsonist, drug smuggler), so my POV may be colored by experience different than most. However, I find the truth of human morality absent God's STOMPING on our FREE FALLEN WILL to be this:

"Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else." - Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT]​

As my Pentecostal friends are fond of saying, "But God ...":

"But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. ​

​

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago." - Ephesians 2:4-10 [NLT]​

Glad to hear of your short testimony. Praise the Lord.

Those Paul was speaking to were `dead` in sins. However, we need to remember that many people in the past have turned to God and God made them righteous - Abel, Enoch, Noah, etc

 

[makesends]

I dunno … I think the nature of GOD is that WHO He is and WHAT He is are inseparable. God doesn’t love, God IS LOVE … HE defines what LOVE is. So the Attributes and Essence of God are inseparable.

You have a point, except that his attributes are what WE say about him, even when we get them from Scripture —i.e. even when HE says them about himself. Yes he is omnipotent. That doesn't mean that our mental constructions are possible for him to do, nor that he must consider between possible actions. It is not a matter of what he COULD HAVE done, but a matter of what he did. THAT is the only possible, in the final analysis. It is our thinking that says he could have done differently.

None of his attributes are without all his other attributes. I'm not sure how to show how that applies to what I'm saying above, but it does. God is what he is, and nothing else— ("The Simplicity of God").

"He could have called ten thousand angels" but he didn't, because that was not what he came to do.