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The five points of Arminianism

Carbon

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1. God elects or reproves on the basis of foreseen faith or unbelief.
2. Christ died for all men and for every man, although only believers are saved.
3. Man is so depraved that divine grace is necessary unto faith or any good deed.
4. This grace may be resisted.
5. Whether all who are truly regenerate will certainly persevere in the faith is a point which needs further investigation.
 
Free willers teach:
The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe.
Faith is the sinners gift to God; its man’s contribution to salvation.

This is a lie many fall for.
 
Free willers teach:
The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe.
Faith is the sinners gift to God; its man’s contribution to salvation.

This is a lie many fall for.
The lie is your description of "Free Willers" teaching. I have never heard any "Free Willer" teach that faith is the sinner's gift to God or that it is man's contribution to salvation.

It is true indeed that "The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe." That you deny that tells me that you do not believe the Spirit is capable of giving assistance to the lost, or even worse, you believe the Spirit is capable of giving such assistance but simply decides not to.
 
The lie is your description of "Free Willers" teaching. I have never heard any "Free Willer" teach that faith is the sinner's gift to God or that it is man's contribution to salvation.

It is true indeed that "The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe." That you deny that tells me that you do not believe the Spirit is capable of giving assistance to the lost, or even worse, you believe the Spirit is capable of giving such assistance but simply decides not to.
Thanks for your opinion. 🙂
 
The lie is your description of "Free Willers" teaching. I have never heard any "Free Willer" teach that faith is the sinner's gift to God or that it is man's contribution to salvation.

It is true indeed that "The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe." That you deny that tells me that you do not believe the Spirit is capable of giving assistance to the lost, or even worse, you believe the Spirit is capable of giving such assistance but simply decides not to.
Im not very concerned about “what it tells you” you’re not an authority. So, if you want to know what I think, ask. Stop assuming
 
Im not very concerned about “what it tells you” you’re not an authority. So, if you want to know what I think, ask. Stop assuming
You are correct, I am not an authority. But then neither are you. I am not assuming anything. I am simply presenting the logical consequence of what you are posting.
 
Im not very concerned about “what it tells you” you’re not an authority. So, if you want to know what I think, ask. Stop assuming
You are correct, I am not an authority. But then neither are you. I am not assuming anything. I am simply presenting the logical consequence of what you are posting.
And @Carbon was only posting the logical consequence of what you believe.

The lie is your description of "Free Willers" teaching. I have never heard any "Free Willer" teach that faith is the sinner's gift to God or that it is man's contribution to salvation.

It is true indeed that "The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe." That you deny that tells me that you do not believe the Spirit is capable of giving assistance to the lost, or even worse, you believe the Spirit is capable of giving such assistance but simply decides not to.
And I quote your agreement with this:
It is true indeed that "The lost need the Spirits “assistance” but the lost do not need to be regenerated by the Spirit before they can believe."

Your declaration of independence from God's very subsistence of (at least) any spiritual good within man tells me that you believe God to depend on the living will of the spiritually dead. The difference between the faith of the Muslim who believes in the mercy of an almighty God, is no different from the faith that you posit is capable of unwavering commitment of a human to what he does not even understand to any worthy degree.

You are claiming, (yes this is the logical 'consequence' of what you have said), that spiritually dead humanity has the integrity, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, commitment, desire, constancy and force of will to do the spiritually alive thing — to love God with the very love that only the Spirit of God and the Christ have for the Father.

Saving faith is the gift of the Spirit of God, generated within the believer by the Spirit of God. No other faith can save.
 
Saving faith is the gift of the Spirit of God, generated within the believer by the Spirit of God. No other faith can save.
If that were true, then God, being the just and loving being He is, would simply give that gift of His Spirit to all. But that isn't true. The gift of God is salvation that is by grace through faith.
 
If that were true, then God, being the just and loving being He is, would simply give that gift of His Spirit to all. But that isn't true. The gift of God is salvation that is by grace through faith.
No. That would be the god your mind created. Not the God of the Bible. You can’t make God how you want Him to be based on your emotions.
 
And @Carbon was only posting the logical consequence of what you believe.
That is ALWAYS a dangerous road to tread.

The "logical consequence" of TULIP is Hyper-Calvinism (makes perfect "logical sense") ... it is just Biblicaly untrue so we 'Doctrine of Grace folk' (aka. "Calvinists") do NOT believe the "logical consequence" of TULIP. We owe our opponent the same grace to say what they believe rasther than have their beliefs dictated to them by those that disagree with those beliefs.
 
If that were true, then God, being the just and loving being He is, would simply give that gift of His Spirit to all. But that isn't true. The gift of God is salvation that is by grace through faith.
Isn't it extraordinary that there are as many verses that speak of FAITH as a gift from God as there are verses that speak of "your (the person's) faith"? I suspect the TRUTH cannot be resolved into a simple "either/or" theology of Monergism or Synergism. I have this nagging suspicion that God's Truth is more subtle, nuanced and complex that we are capable of fully imagining. Thus the Biblical Paradox and lack of a scriptural "smoking gun verse" to settle the question once and for all.

That said, your argument (P implies Q) carries a flaw in assuming that "saving all" is God's primary goal. Clearly, OMNOPOTENT, by its very definition, means that God COULD [is able to] save everyone ... that everyone is not saved must indicate that God chose not to do so. (Who could stop God from doing something? Any being that could stop God, would cause God to stop being God ... thus is an impossibility.) From scripture, "God's Glory" seems to be the purpose for all men ... both those saved and those destined for wrath. I do not pretend to fully understand, I merely accept that "God said it, so it must be true."
 
I do not pretend to fully understand, I merely accept that "God said it, so it must be true."
But God didn't say it, and it is not true. It is not that you do not fully understand; rather it is that you are wrong at the most basic element.
 
But God didn't say it, and it is not true. It is not that you do not fully understand; rather it is that you are wrong at the most basic element.
I’m sure that if you can show @atpollard where he is wrong, backed by scripture, he would then agree with you. As would I.

But what you are using is your emotional opinion. Nothing more.
 
Regeneration occurs at the moment a person is born again but God uses calling and drawing first and that is when we come to believe which swiftly results in salvation. Anybody can believe in the Gospel and what the Bible teaches without being truly saved. It takes the work of God to produce salvation.
 
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