The 12th apostle: Matthias or Paul?

[jeremiah1five]

Call it what you want.
That the church would have twelve apostles, the Holy Spirit appointed Matthias

I don't read the Holy Spirit appointing Matthias. You're adding to the bible. Shame on you.

But here is an example of the Holy Spirit appointing Barnabas and Saul to the WORK He called them to:

2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. Acts 13:1–2.

There was nothing like this in the appointment of Matthias. NOTHING.

and
that the Gentiles would have an apostle, God called Paul.

Who made that rule?

God subtracts (Ro 11:17) and God adds.

Saul is speaking about Olive tree Israel in Romans 11:17. And if you'll notice those branches broken off were grafted back in.

And the "rule" as to Christ ADDING to the Church is Acts 2:47.

Christ baptizes a person into the body as directed by God and at this point a person receives their place in the body along with spiritual gifts. Sometimes the Holy Spirit reveals their place and gifts, sometimes not but must wait for the believer to mature and be raised into the knowledge of their place and spiritual gifts. So, Saul is writing about Olive tree Israel and Olive tree Israel is not the same as the body of Christ so your Romans passage doesn't apply.
Learn some sound doctrine so you don't come across as ignorant of the truth of Scripture.
It's important as children of truth to KNOW the truth.

 

[Eleanor]

I don't read the Holy Spirit appointing Matthias. You're adding to the bible. Shame on you.

I'm thinking the shame is on your ignorance regarding the Biblical use of prayer with the lot.

I will cease to provide you opportunities to shame yourself.

 

[Mr GLee]

So, you believe the false Gentile theology that after Judas committed suicide that Matthias REPLACED jim or the Paul REPLACED him?

Newsflash! Christ DOESN'T replace, Christ ADDS.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47.

Do you ever think for yourself, or do you just mimic what you read in Gentile theology books? You don't study on your part to search the Scripture in your own walk to be led by the truth of Scripture?

Let's use that grey matter between your ears:

If I want to build a house or a Temple or a Church, I start with one brick. Then, I replaced that brick with another brick. Then, I replaced that brick with another brick. Then I replaced that brick with another brick.
Do you see how stupid and insane that Gentile theology is?

The problem Jesus had with the Pharisees was not their doctrine. All they could understand without the Holy Spirit was letter of the Law while Jesus taught from the same Scripture the spirit of the Law. No, Jesus chastised them for exalting the traditions of the elders over the Word of God. The Pharisees and Jesus believed the same doctrine from Scripture.

Twelve is the number he was shooting for . Why twelve out of twenty seven listed apostles .. What does the word twelve have to with it?

 

[Eleanor]

I don't read the Holy Spirit appointing Matthias. You're adding to the bible. Shame on you.

Then you don't read Proverbs 16:33, Nu 26:55.

 

[Mr GLee]

The 12th disciple is Judas Iscariot.
Christ does not replace. He adds.

47 Praising God and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46–47.

Christ doesn't build His Church by replacing. He ADDS brick upon brick, line upon line, precept upon precept.
All this false Gentile theology about replacement theology, Israel was replaced, Judas was replaced. Garbage. All of it is garbage.

What is the purpose of the word Twelve used in parable. What does it represent? Why a remnant of the whole?

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation

Genesis 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve:

Genesis 49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his

Exodus 15:27And they came to Elim, where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.

Exodus 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Exodus 28:21 And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

Exodus 39:14And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.

Leviticus 24:5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.

Twelve . . whatsoever is in view . Used 102 times in the old . Twelve used 62 time in the same way in the new testament.

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, (out of hundreds) he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease

Above ..twelve = power or authority. Not of thier own dying flesh .

What do think the word "twelve" represents today ????.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm thinking the shame is on your ignorance regarding the Biblical use of prayer with the lot.

I will cease to provide you opportunities to shame yourself.

Peter was in error in many places in the text. One is that the casting of the Lot is reserved specifically for the high priest and Peter was not high priest. Jesus was on the planet for 40 days after His resurrection and as Lord and King it was His prerogative to appoint a replacement for Judas and He didn't and the reason why He didn't is because in building a Church with members with spiritual gifts and calling and specific places in the body (hand, mouth, eyes, etc.), Christ doesn't replace He ADDS (Acts 2:47.)
When James was killed by Herod in Acts 12 there was no gathering council to appoint a replacement and again because Christ doesn't replace, He ADDS (Acts 2:47.)
Another problem with what Peter did is that he did that while in the flesh and leaning on his understanding as the Holy Spirit of Promise did not arrive to Head the Church until a day or two later.
Another problem with Peter's action is that he gives a natural or physical qualification for being apostle (unless he was choosing a treasurer as Judas "held the bag") and the qualification for a spiritual office was merely physically witnessing Jesus' water baptism by John until Jesus' resurrection, and that in and of itself is extremely problematic.

And there are other considerations that reject the belief and teaching of Gentiles that Peter was choosing an apostle when Saul later writes in 1 Corinthians 12-14 that ONLY GOD has the wisdom, power, and authority to not only baptize into the body (which is when a person receives everything of Christ meant for life and the body) a born-again believer, and gives them their place in the body. I bet you don't know what body part an apostle takes. I doubt you know what body part a pastor takes or what body part a prophet takes.

Peter most likely is not appointing an apostle which belongs to God alone but a treasurer since Judas was the one who held the bag (of money.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Twelve is the number he was shooting for . Why twelve out of twenty seven listed apostles .. What does the word twelve have to with it?

It corresponds to the twelve tribes and also numerically represents the perfect government of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then you don't read Proverbs 16:33, Nu 26:55.

33 The lot is cast into the lap;
But the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Prov. 16:33.

55 Notwithstanding the land shall be divided by lot: according to the names of the tribes of their fathers they shall inherit. 56 According to the lot shall the possession thereof be divided between many and few. Num. 26:54–56.

Neither passage say that the common man can cast lots (dice) which ISN'T the Urim or the Thummim to discern the Lord's will in a matter, but Numbers 26 is about Aaron as high priest casting lots in the allotment of land, holy land at that. It only states what Moses was to do and by this time it was already commanded under the Law that the high priest - in this case Aaron - has the authority to cast the lot which is a special device to discern the Lord's will. They're called the Urim and Thummin.

So, why don't we cast lots today to discern the Lord's will for our lives if you believe we are to do it and use Peter as example?
Why?

 

[Mr GLee]

It corresponds to the twelve tribes and also numerically represents the perfect government of God.

Amen .all of the old testament saints

And what does the 12 apostles represent?

 

[Eleanor]

Peter was in error in many places in the text.

More shame on you.

 

[Eleanor]

33 The lot is cast into the lap;
But the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Prov. 16:33.
55 Notwithstanding the land shall be divided by lot: according to the names of the tribes of their fathers they shall inherit. 56 According to the lot shall the possession thereof be divided between many and few. Num. 26:54–56.

So, why don't we cast lots today to discern the Lord's will for our lives if you believe we are to do it and use Peter as example?
Why?

Relevance to Ac 1:24-26?

Wasting my time here. . .

 

[jeremiah1five]

More shame on you.

No rebuttal? Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Relevance to Ac 1:24-26?

Wasting my time here. . .

Can't come with Scripture and reason?
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Why start something you can't or won't finish? You're wasting MY time.