Synergism

[Carbon]

God does not expect, nor does He ask us, anywhere to help Him or to work with Him. We continue to carry the old man with us throughout this life. And he is always causing us to do things we do not want to do, and the things we want to do, we just do not do, and all he ever brings to anything is what he initially brought, which is sin. God does the work of sanctification Himself, as He prepares us and builds us up, there is no failure there, it's us now living in the increase that we find rough at times to live. The ground is already taken by God, all we need to do is live it.
So, sanctification is just getting used to our justification.

The real change of state is an alteration of qualities in man himself. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17.

This is what the Holy Spirit does, not us. And not only this, but each day we are renewed. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Cor 4:16.

 

[Carbon]

And isn't sanctification the real change in man from the state of being filthy and morally corrupt to the purity of God's image?

 

[fastfredy0]

And isn't sanctification the real change in man from the state of being filthy and morally corrupt to the purity of God's image?

I would call that 'glorification'. Sanctification definitely does clean a man's morality up, but not to the purity of God's image IMO.

 

[Josheb]

God does not expect, nor does He ask us, anywhere to help Him or to work with Him.

Speaking of his apostleship Paul often spoke of God at work in him to do God's work.

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God...

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

There are many verses like this in his epistolary. Soteriologically speaking, Paul stated,

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And Peter expressed a similar sentiment when he wrote,

2 Peter 1:1-11
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

We walk in the good works God has provided for us to do. What God has provided must be applied, as products of the new life in Christ, not the sinful flesh.

Colossians 3:22-24
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men....



.

 

[Carbon]

Speaking of his apostleship Paul often spoke of God at work in him to do God's work.

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God...

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

There are many verses like this in his epistolary. Soteriologically speaking, Paul stated,

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And Peter expressed a similar sentiment when he wrote,

2 Peter 1:1-11
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

We walk in the good works God has provided for us to do. What God has provided must be applied, as products of the new life in Christ, not the sinful flesh.

Colossians 3:22-24
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men....



.

Thankfully, there are no more apostles, huh?

 

[Carbon]

I would call that 'glorification'. Sanctification definitely does clean a man's morality up, but not to the purity of God's image IMO.

Isn't glorification the real change in man from misery, or the punishment of sin, to eternal happiness?

 

[fastfredy0]

Isn't glorification the real change in man from misery, or the punishment of sin, to eternal happiness?

Yes, and I assume our sin nature will be vanquished as part of our glorification which would be necessary to be one with God and to be made in God's image. I don't think that while one is being sanctified they are "in God's image" though I grant they are slowly moving in the direction.

...we're probably quibbling over our conception of the definition of terms.

First and foremost glorification speaks of the sanctification and moral perfection that we will take on at the resurrection, when Christ appears. We shall be made like Christ and take on His holiness, perfection and immortality. The process of sanctification is at work in us now, but moves from one degree of glory to another until it reaches final glory, the eternal state. Author unknown

 

[Hazelelponi]

I mean it the way i think Sproul meant it; we the branch are in Christ the Vine. Sproul simply meant both are doing something. If I sought agreement, it would be agreeing with Sproul that both God and Man are doing something...

Gotta go to work..

I hope you are having a good day and not actually getting this notification but you know you and @Eternally-Grateful might have a lot in common.

You two might discuss it. It doesn't make sense to me but I'm me .. lol.

 

[fastfredy0]

It's difficult enough I think, I couldn't do a constant worry that I was going to hell anyway because I can't live up.

My only hope is that God saves me despite myself.

Yeah, if you're a "free willy" it's all on you to make sure your theology correlates sufficiently to meet God's criteria for being saved. That too being another reason to boast.

 

[ReverendRV]

I hope you are having a good day and not actually getting this notification but you know you and @Eternally-Grateful might have a lot in common.

You two might discuss it. It doesn't make sense to me but I'm me .. lol.

I'm home now; boy I'm tired!

I'm a 5-Point Calvinist, but probably the most liberal one you'll ever meet. I got Saved in a Reformed Baptist ARBCA Denomination Church. I would describe it as very Libertarian. Now that I have been focusing on the 2nd LBCF saying the Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Causation, I realize that my concept of them being Libertarian has much to do with understanding our Liberty. When we Confess we're the Secondary Causation of All that comes to pass in our lives, our Sanctification comes about in part through our Secondary Causation. Our Faith and Perseverance are likewise the same...

 

[ReverendRV]

I agree, but I also found reading it troubling because there was not a single agreed upon definition of sanctification. Each contributor defined the term differently and, as a consequence, ended up asserting a different explanation of a term completely different from all others. The result is a limited comparison, or a comparison of completely different viewpoints on completely different terms. It is still beneficial to know just how differently the various theological perspectives view sanctification. In some cases, the difference is so significant that they aren't comparable. It was also nice to read men of God holding differing views ably discuss their differences with manners and respect. That's one of my favorite things about comparative works.

I understand that Sanctification is a multifaceted thing. The affirmation of one facet, is not meant to be a denial of the other. I am just latching on to Sproul's quote, to avoid Hyper Calvinism. Our Sanctification is a Fruit of the branch and of the Vine. Faith is also a Fruit of Regeneration...

 

[Josheb]

Thankfully, there are no more apostles, huh?

Yep. But God still saves us, creating us in Christ for works we're to walk in. That applies to all, apostle or not.

 

[Josheb]

I'm a 5-Point Calvinist, but probably the most liberal one you'll ever meet....

I'm cracking up because most of my liberal friends think I'm way to conservative and my conservative friends, way too liberal. In Church and out. Just can't please 'em .

 

[ReverendRV]

I'm cracking up because most of my liberal friends think I'm way to conservative and my conservative friends, way too liberal. In Church and out. Just can't please 'em .

He's got it!

 

[Carbon]

Yep. But God still saves us, creating us in Christ for works we're to walk in. That applies to all, apostle or not.

Of course brother

 

[makesends]

I'm home now; boy I'm tired!

I'm a 5-Point Calvinist, but probably the most liberal one you'll ever meet. I got Saved in a Reformed Baptist ARBCA Denomination Church. I would describe it as very Libertarian. Now that I have been focusing on the 2nd LBCF saying the Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Causation, I realize that my concept of them being Libertarian has much to do with understanding our Liberty. When we Confess we're the Secondary Causation of All that comes to pass in our lives, our Sanctification comes about in part through our Secondary Causation. Our Faith and Perseverance are likewise the same...x

While I do claim (and insist) that our faith subsequent to salvation is indeed of the same source as our salvific faith—the Spirit of God is that source—I think there is still a stark difference, in that while our faith is a RESULT of the Spirit taking up residence within us, we have no force of will nor agreement causal to our salvation that IS through that faith. We find that we do believe, and that the subsequent act of will of submitting our will to the one in whom we believe is indeed a work, even that is only a result, still, of that faith and the specific (not simply a general 'enabling') work of the Spirit in us. The difference could be seen as the fellowship causally resulting from the willed 'opening the door' (a la Rev 3:20) and obedience (John 14:23) vs the regeneration that may not even be understood or conscious to the new believer.

What I think has not often been well-defined in this discussion, and in most theological circles, too, including Bible and Theological Dictionaries, is that Monergism, while usually well-enough defined, Synergism comes with the definition of synergism as mere 'cooperation' of the sinner with the Spirit of God in bringing about salvation, which definition is lacking one strong fault of true synergism, that God's work alone is not enough, but that the sinner must be willing, and in most circles, even accepting or enabling in some way for God to be able to do his work of salvation—not just cooperating, but ADDING to God's work. This is at the crux of Irresistible Grace—I call @Eternally-Grateful a synergist, yet he finds the difference in terminology miniscule between us. Well, the meaning behind the terminology is anything BUT miniscule.

I will happily grant that he is not your usual synergist, but in the end, he thinks salvation must be a result of one's accepting of the Gift of God, and, I'm sorry, but that is synergism, since the salvation must come through the willed act of accepting it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I understand that Sanctification is a multifaceted thing. The affirmation of one facet, is not meant to be a denial of the other. I am just latching on to Sproul's quote, to avoid Hyper Calvinism. Our Sanctification is a Fruit of the branch and of the Vine. Faith is also a Fruit of Regeneration...

One small thing. To avoid hyper Calvinism you just have to remember all good (positive) accrues to God and all negative accrues to us.

Nothing negative ever accrues to God. Everything has to be read in this lens.

 

[makesends]

One small thing. To avoid hyper Calvinism you just have to remember all good (positive) accrues to God and all negative accrues to us.

Nothing negative ever accrues to God. Everything has to be read in this lens.

Well, yes and no. I wouldn't call it a lens, lest some begin to accuse. While I agree with the principle, I'd rather say, we need to keep the reasons behind that, in mind. God indeed works ALL things together for good, and that, for those of us who belong to him. So he is to be praised for all things, as Job would tell us. But THAT is the lens—Scripture, not preconceived doctrine—lest some accuse us of doing what they do.

Hyper-Calvinism comes in several forms, btw. In fact, I would hazard to guess that while I agree with your statement, and vehemently at that, I could still be, (and have been called), a hyper-calvinist, since I could be said to believe in double-predestination and in absolute causation by God.

 

[ReverendRV]

While I do claim (and insist) that our faith subsequent to salvation is indeed of the same source as our salvific faith—the Spirit of God is that source—I think there is still a stark difference, in that while our faith is a RESULT of the Spirit taking up residence within us, we have no force of will nor agreement causal to our salvation that IS through that faith. We find that we do believe, and that the subsequent act of will of submitting our will to the one in whom we believe is indeed a work, even that is only a result, still, of that faith and the specific (not simply a general 'enabling') work of the Spirit in us. The difference could be seen as the fellowship causally resulting from the willed 'opening the door' (a la Rev 3:20) and obedience (John 14:23) vs the regeneration that may not even be understood or conscious to the new believer.

What I think has not often been well-defined in this discussion, and in most theological circles, too, including Bible and Theological Dictionaries, is that Monergism, while usually well-enough defined, Synergism comes with the definition of synergism as mere 'cooperation' of the sinner with the Spirit of God in bringing about salvation, which definition is lacking one strong fault of true synergism, that God's work alone is not enough, but that the sinner must be willing, and in most circles, even accepting or enabling in some way for God to be able to do his work of salvation—not just cooperating, but ADDING to God's work. This is at the crux of Irresistible Grace—I call @Eternally-Grateful a synergist, yet he finds the difference in terminology miniscule between us. Well, the meaning behind the terminology is anything BUT miniscule.

I will happily grant that he is not your usual synergist, but in the end, he thinks salvation must be a result of one's accepting of the Gift of God, and, I'm sorry, but that is synergism, since the salvation must come through the willed act of accepting it.

Would you agree with the WCF that the Liberty of our Will is established as a Secondary Causation, and this applies even to the Gift of Faith? Would you agree with Sproul it applies to our Sanctification during Perseverance?

 

[brightfame52]

The synergism comes in only after we have been made a new creature, in that aspect its totally monergism, but when created anew, the new man energized by the Spirit cooperates in the conversion experience being granted both repentance and faith to do Gods will. However this has nothing to do with the old nature of the flesh, its dead in this conversion process. So both faith and repentance are not of the flesh, but of the Newly Created Man in Christ. So they are evidences of having been made a New Man