Some good reasons to reject Arminianism

[jeremiah1five]

I agree, the church will continue to the end. But as far as those gifts go like tongues for example.
Where is it needed? I believe that gift along with others were given during the time of the apostles and got the building and protection of the early church. We now have the written word. If you see it differently, I believe you are wrong. I just don’t see the need for it any longer. Consider discernment. Our discernment increases as we renew our minds with the washing of the word, ect…

I know you believe different. And that’s okay.
I know of some Calvinist’s who believe in the gifts.
And that’s okay.

Well, there's a wealth of instruction with regard to the spiritual gifts and gift ministries.
Tongues:

2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Co 14:2.

4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself: 1 Co 14:4.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 1 Co 14:15.

Just a few examples of use. Still, it is the Holy Spirit that is speaking. We don't muzzle the 'ox' as it treads out the corn. Nor do we muzzle the Holy Spirit. Not everyone has this gift. In the negative Paul asked, "are all apostles...do all speak with tongues...?"
No.

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1 Co 14:37–39.

 

[Arial]

Isn't Finney connected to the Methodists?

And he was connected to the Presbyterians before that and began sowing his seeds of heresy there. A true wolf in sheep's clothing, rather that just being ignorant.

 

[armylngst]

And he was connected to the Presbyterians before that and began sowing his seeds of heresy there. A true wolf in sheep's clothing, rather that just being ignorant.

I am still confused on him, having only looked into the great damage he cause in the church.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm a cessationist.

But I do not say God cannot do what He wants to do when He wants and how He wants to do it.

I just do not believe they are a continued charismata for the church.

So, the Head of His Body does not need to function throughout His Body with His 5 fold minstiry gifts? Apostle, (Heb. 3: 1) Prophet, etc?

 

[Carbon]

So, the Head of His Body does not need to function throughout His Body with His 5 fold minstiry gifts? Apostle, (Heb. 3: 1) Prophet, etc?

How am I stopping Christ from functioning by being a cessationist?

 

[Marilyn C]

How am I stopping Christ from functioning by being a cessationist?

Please correct me if I am mistaken. So it seems to me that a `cessationist` is one who does not believe that the Lord is functioning in His 5 fold ministry gifts today. If that is the case then you aren`t stopping the Lord functioning that way but are closing off receiving that ministry gift in your life through not acknowledging and receiving of that gift.

 

[Carbon]

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Okay

So it seems to me that a `cessationist` is one who does not believe that the Lord is functioning in His 5 fold ministry gifts today.

I do not believe the gifts you are talking about are needed today. I believe they are no longer in operation.

If that is the case then you aren`t stopping the Lord functioning that way but are closing off receiving that ministry gift in your life

Closing off receiving a gift? Do you mean like tongues for example? How would that be useful today?

through not acknowledging and receiving of that gift.

So I would be stopping God from giving me a gift?

 

[Carbon]

Please correct me if I am mistaken. So it seems to me that a `cessationist` is one who does not believe that the Lord is functioning in His 5 fold ministry gifts today. If that is the case then you aren`t stopping the Lord functioning that way but are closing off receiving that ministry gift in your life through not acknowledging and receiving of that gift.

Marilyn,
Would you give me a situation where the gift of tongues would be used?

Do unbelieving Jews still need this sign to believe the Gentiles are now saved?

 

[Marilyn C]

Okay

I do not believe the gifts you are talking about are needed today. I believe they are no longer in operation.

Closing off receiving a gift? Do you mean like tongues for example? How would that be useful today?


So I would be stopping God from giving me a gift?

I said `ministry gifts,` not Holy Spirit gifts, though that is fine to talk about them too.

I have spoken in tongues for over 60 years as I received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues for private upbuilding in the spirit. (1 Cor. 14: 4)

Paul does say to `pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may all prophesy.` (1 Cor. 14: 1) That is not the ministry of a Prophet but just the enabling to prophecy as the Holy Spirit wills.

 

[Carbon]

I said `ministry gifts,` not Holy Spirit gifts, though that is fine to talk about them too.

okay

I have spoken in tongues for over 60 years as I received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues for private upbuilding in the spirit. (1 Cor. 14: 4)

Okay. As I said, I know some Christians who say the same.

Paul does say to `pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may all prophesy.` (1 Cor. 14: 1) That is not the ministry of a Prophet but just the enabling to prophecy as the Holy Spirit wills.

Prophesy as in? Please define what you mean by it?

Thanks

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn,
Would you give me a situation where the gift of tongues would be used?

Do unbelieving Jews still need this sign to believe the Gentiles are now saved?

The gift of tongues in public by the Holy Spirit is always needed to be followed by the interpretation.

I grew up with Apostles, prophets etc and those prophetic words were centered on Christ. Today they are mostly `fortune telling,` or `tickling ears` about world news. All false.

 

[Marilyn C]

okay

Okay. As I said, I know some Christians who say the same.

Prophesy as in? Please define what you mean by it?

Thanks

Here is a part of a much longer prophecy.

Prophetic Word (part of) from the Apostolic Convention in Penygroes, 1943.

Prophetic Ministry through Pastor J.D. Eynon.


It is the “Body” Love that is the function of the Dispensational Love of Christ, and I want you to gather and to grasp the revelation as My people. It is not the towering ability of individual men that will bring the close of this dispensation to an end, but it will be the ripening, the moulding, the perfecting of a body of people that will be peculiarly Mine.

There will be no possibility for `flesh` to glory, for all will be interwoven one into the other, and in the centre of them will be the fires of Divine affection, in the centre of them will be the seeds of a Divine Love, in the centre of them will be the deposit of the Eternal Purpose of God; and when that time will come, it will be far greater! – drawing from the earth a people (who have been Mine) in the sense of rapture; it will be the carrying away from the earth of that functional Organ from the realm of Time into its Eternal Setting, to give birth to Divine creations in the Ages that are yet to come.



“To know the Lord of Christ!,” Be not satisfied that you have perfect love in yourselves, but know that you are perfecting love one to the other. And to that end have I moved, and unto that end am still moving. And thus it is that I am pressing through and breaking every known arrangement in order that this might be accomplished; and that when you have returned, and when indeed you are returning, you will be conscious that you belong to something that has been Divinely imparted unto you in these days.

Know the Love of Christ, therefore, as My People collectively, and in doing this you will attain unto the purpose of your gathering, for in the days past I have brought forth the principles of the present teaching of wisdom. But this is the time of the preparation of the creative Organ for the Ages to come, and that in its self will speak unto you how near is the time of My coming. It is the final preparation, says the Lord your God.

 

[armylngst]

Please correct me if I am mistaken. So it seems to me that a `cessationist` is one who does not believe that the Lord is functioning in His 5 fold ministry gifts today. If that is the case then you aren`t stopping the Lord functioning that way but are closing off receiving that ministry gift in your life through not acknowledging and receiving of that gift.

A cessationist believes that certain gifts (speaking in tongues, healing, interpretation) have ceased operation as gifts, because the purpose for these gifts was met. However, not all cessationists believe that God can't/won't move through someone to accomplish His will. However, it is not the same as a gift, which is exercised by the believer through the power of the Holy Spirit. (I hope that is clear enough.)

The purpose for some gifts (not all) was the establishment of the church. Once the church was established, the need for those gifts faded away.

 

[Carbon]

A cessationist believes that certain gifts (speaking in tongues, healing, interpretation) have ceased operation as gifts, because the purpose for these gifts was met. However, not all cessationists believe that God can't/won't move through someone to accomplish His will. However, it is not the same as a gift, which is exercised by the believer through the power of the Holy Spirit. (I hope that is clear enough.)

The purpose for some gifts (not all) was the establishment of the church. Once the church was established, the need for those gifts faded away.

Exactly!

 

[civic]

A cessationist believes that certain gifts (speaking in tongues, healing, interpretation) have ceased operation as gifts, because the purpose for these gifts was met. However, not all cessationists believe that God can't/won't move through someone to accomplish His will. However, it is not the same as a gift, which is exercised by the believer through the power of the Holy Spirit. (I hope that is clear enough.)

The purpose for some gifts (not all) was the establishment of the church. Once the church was established, the need for those gifts faded away.

Agreed and as an example I believe the individual gift of miracles ceased with the Apostles but God still performs miracles.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Overall, I find that Arminianism is just false teaching (Charles Finney), or immature believers who need to grow in their understanding of God. You have to go to college to gain knowledge, you aren't born with it. You have to grow in scripture, and in the Spirit, to understand all that God has given us in His word.

There is also knowledge that comes from salvation or the moment you are born again. Although there does seem to be people who have gradual conversions and others have instant ones. I was one of the latter, and reading the Bible and other Reformed writings were more like confirmation of the knowledge I received from God at the moment of the new birth. I didn't know everything, of course, and there is still learning, but the main things are covered for me.

Not all embrace Calvinism, though they are saved. I think of Dave Hunt especially in that regard.

 

[Marilyn C]

A cessationist believes that certain gifts (speaking in tongues, healing, interpretation) have ceased operation as gifts, because the purpose for these gifts was met. However, not all cessationists believe that God can't/won't move through someone to accomplish His will. However, it is not the same as a gift, which is exercised by the believer through the power of the Holy Spirit. (I hope that is clear enough.)

The purpose for some gifts (not all) was the establishment of the church. Once the church was established, the need for those gifts faded away.

Thank you army, for that explanation.

There is no scriptural proof for that view however.

 

[VCO]

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Mark 16.

Both Arminians and Calvinists go out and proclaim the gospel.
However,

Arminians believe they have to, with help from God, convince the lost sinner to believe. They have to continue counseling in the gospel in hopes people will make a decision to believe. And if one does, and proves it by coming forth, they get to record the persons name and the date they got saved in their bibles. I even heard some say, “ I got three people saved today!”
Yes, I suppose they got a reason to boast.

The Calvinist has his confidence in God, knowing God will save those who are His. A Calvinist will share the gospel and continue to follow up as well. You won’t hear a Calvinist say, “I got three people saved today!” Because it’s not man, it’s the gospel that is the power unto salvation. We also don’t have them come forth for proof. The proof is they will hunger and thirst for Christ.

I suppose both Arminians and Calvinists are fishers of men.
One casts his net and woos the fish to swim into it. Saying come on, you can do it, give it a try.
The other casts his net knowing many kinds of fish will be dragged in.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

I thought we Evangelicals settled that argument between the Arminian's and the Calvinist's in the 1980's. Still Going!

 

[QVQ]

There are words to preach the gospel. That is given to some. Myself, I don't have the words so I try to live my life in a way that shines a light on my faith.
I mention God. In fact, if anyone is talking to me, we are talking about God as God is always on my mind. God is the only game in town.

 

[civic]

Thank you army, for that explanation.

There is no scriptural proof for that view however.

Sure there is I’ll give you a dozen biblical reasons after work.