Six Problems Inherent in Dispensational Premillennialism, Part 3: False Teachings

[Josheb]

Dispensationalism has led to chronic, repeated, continuous false teachings.

Since its inception in the early 1800s Dispensationalist teachers have been making a series of predictions pertaining to when the rapture, Christ's return, or other events within their eschatological point of view will occur but not a single one of them has ever come true. Not one. This can be observed on an almost daily basis anytime any Christian turns on the radio, turns on the television, or views a webcast by Dispensationalists.

Dispensationalism elevates the lesser doctrines of ecclesiology and eschatology and makes them preeminent over the more traditionally primary doctrines of Christology and soteriology. This problem began in early 1800s with the rise of what became known as the “restoration movement” of which John Darby’s views were only a part. In addition to the abuse of the term "dispensation," Darbyism was part of the restoration movement which vilified the Church. The core belief of all the restorations sects was the view the Church is corrupt and in need of restoration (hence the name of the movement). The problem sectarian-wise was that each sect had its own idea of what restoration looked like. Each appealed to some earlier stage of the Church found in scripture but none of them agreed and all of them appealed to scripture selectively. In the case of Dispensationalism Darby argued the Church was so corrupt only his little sect was the true Church. At first this was the Brethren movement in general, but eventually he and a few others separated from the other Brethren groups and then he himself, amidst intractable and irreconcilable differences with his buddies, left to form his own group within the Brethren congregations, the Extreme Brethren. Individuals claiming they are the true Church isn’t just false teaching, it is a landmark feature of cults.

Darby believed the Church should separate entirely from the world and maintain a purified lifestyle, one based on the sectarian view of the New Testament Church. He and the subsequent leaders of Dispensationalism believed Christians should NOT participate in politics of social policy. They taught and continue to teach a “two kingdoms” theology in which the kingdom of God and the kingdom of the world remain distinctly separate and Christians are to have nothing whatsoever to do with the things of the world. They often appeal to the “two kingdoms” of Augustine’s “The City of God,” but they grossly misrepresent Augustine’s teaching to make it something entirely different and apply it for entirely different purposes. The scriptures teach God’s kingdom is not of this world but it is decidedly on this world. Furthermore, the Church is NOT to be so separated that it does nothing. The historical, orthodox view in Christianity Church has always been to preach and apply the gospel in all areas of life, making disciples of all the nations, baptizing them and teaching them the commands of Christ; to be a light to all the world. Now, while this teaching of separation has changed in the recent decades it remains a prominent feature of Dispensationalism found in the belief the Church will not prevail over the gates of hell but will instead become increasingly impotent and the world goes to hell in a handbasket (because of the Church’s absence) and will need to be rescued in a rapture wherein it is removed from the planet, leaving the earth Churchless, without any witness to Christ but the supposedly prophesied absence. It is a false teaching. In addition to this Church-less earth, Dispensationalism teaches Israel is separate from the Church and it will have to go through a series of works-based events (like building a temple) in order to eventually come to saving faith in Jesus. This is a false teaching.

Almost immediately upon the invention of Dispensationalism and its inherent redefinition of the Church (ecclesiology) and emphasis on apocalypse a series of teachers making false predictions ensued. In the late 1800s in America the Civil War was the sign (the sign, not merely a sign) the end of the world was nigh. The inventions of machines made war increasingly destructive and in the early 1900s the war to end all wars prompted a new wave of harbingers making false predictions. The same ensued with the rise of existentialism and Communism and WWII and then the rise of modern Israel and Korea, Viet Nam, the Seven Days War, and on and on and on and not a single one of the predictions ever coming true. In the 1960s and '70s a plethora of new teachers arose predicting Christ’s return by 1988, forty years after the inception of modern Israel. When that didn’t happen “adjustments” were made and none of those predictions came true, either. They stopped date setting but refused to stop making appeals to soon-occurring events without specific dates that still nonetheless never happened. Each and every one of them a false teaching by a false teacher. This practice continues to this day. The point is the modern-day phenomena of hearing Christian radio preachers make prognostications is not new. Dispensationalists have been doing this from the pulpit from the inception of Dispensationalism and not a single prediction has ever come true.

No other theology fosters this behavior. It is unique to Dispensational Premillennialism.

Eschatologically speaking, every single Dispensationalist or modern futurist is a false teacher whenever and because the make prognostications that never come true. And Dispensationalists tolerate it! No other eschatology causes these problems.

 

[Ghada]

They taught and continue to teach a “two kingdoms” theology in which the kingdom of God and the kingdom of the world remain distinctly separate

Col 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

and Christians are to have nothing whatsoever to do with the things of the world.

Are you sure about these words? If anyone is practicing hermitism as a matter of doctrinal rule, then that is not the righteous sanctification of the Lord from the sinful things of the world.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 1 Peter{1:22} Seeing ye have

Jde 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

(because of the Church’s absence) and will need to be rescued in a rapture wherein it is removed from the planet, leaving the earth Churchless, without any witness to Christ but the supposedly prophesied absence.

If this is acurate, then it is certainly untrue. Not only up to the last hour will an angel of God preach the gospel of Jesus Christ from midheaven, but of course, the Lord Himself and His resurrected saints will also be there in the air.

In addition to this Church-less earth, Dispensationalism teaches Israel is separate from the Church and it will have to go through a series of works-based events (like building a temple) in order to eventually come to saving faith in Jesus. This is a false teaching.

If this is accurate, then untrue again. No man must do any work in order to first become saved and justified with Jesus Christ. (Such as with flesh cirumcision and water baptism) Especially not building any temple made with hands.

There is confession Him resurrected Lord with the mouth, but that is heard of the Lord.

Almost immediately upon the invention of Dispensationalism and its inherent redefinition of the Church (ecclesiology) and emphasis on apocalypse a series of teachers making false predictions ensued.

Quack prophets of the Lord's coming is not unique to dispensationalism.

No other theology fosters this behavior. It is unique to Dispensational Premillennialism.

Not true. I know some holiness Pentecosts that get pretty close. I knew one great leader claiming to be the Last Elijah, and the Lord would return in January 2020. (Last I heard, his churches were investigated by the FBI for federal education fund fraud. I think he's fled back to Haiti.)

Eschatologically speaking, every single Dispensationalist or modern futurist is a false teacher whenever and because the make prognostications that never come true.

The problem of course, is there's no Scripture given to disprove the doctrine of dispensationalism. And if examples of hypocrisy and false prophecy disproves a doctrine, then the righteous doctrine of Jesus Christ is judged false.

If you want to give any Scripture disproving the doctrine, then I'd be glad to see it.

Or, perhaps I am only misreading your intent. You're not showing any Scriptural problem with the doctrine, but only some produced problems with dispensationalist believers.

I am not a dispensationalist as I read from their own pages. But that's mostly because I believe much of it is uslessly superfluous. I mean, you don't need to do all that studying and teaching, just to confirm that the risen God of Abraham will fulfill His promise to give him the land on earth that he walked on, as well as to his natural seed after the Lord's return.

Deu 18:21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Lam 3:37Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

 

[Mr GLee]

Are you sure about these words? If anyone is practicing hermitism as a matter of doctrinal rule, then that is not the righteous sanctification of the Lord from the sinful things of the world.

Sinful things the wisdom of this world. false prophecy, false prophets,false apostles bringing doctrines of dying mankind oral traditons .

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

 

[Josheb]

Col 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Yep. One kingdom. The kingdom in which Jesus reigns. He is the King of all kings, Lord of all Lords, and there is no other rule above his. One kingdom. DPism teaches there are two kingdoms; they deny the all-encompassing single reign of Christ and assert a kingdom here on earth and a kingdom in heaven., They assert two groups of "God's people," not one. The Church and Israel are completely different groups, completely different people with completely different purposes and they two do not overlap in DPism.

Are you sure about these words? If anyone is practicing hermitism as a matter of doctrinal rule, then that is not the righteous sanctification of the Lord from the sinful things of the world.

Yes, I am sure about those words. When John Darby first formalized and began teaching his views he demanded Christians withdraw from society. It was deemed ungodly for Christians, true Christians, to involve themselves with any of the aspects of secular society and/or politics.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 1 Peter{1:22} Seeing ye have

Jde 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

@Ghada, you're not arguing against me; you're arguing against Dispensational Premillennialism. I am not the one teaching a two-kingdoms theology or hermitism. DPism teaches that. If you consider yourself a DPist and you find issues with what I have posted about DPism then either you're not a very good Dispensationalist, or you're not actually a Dispensationalist at all and you've been unwittingly persuaded to believe parts of DPism without knowing all the theology teaches.

Do not make this about you versus me because you look foolish doing so. I haven't posted my theology. This op is specifically about false teachings of Dispensational Premillennialism. Nothing else. If, on the other hand, you're not a Dispensationalist, then join me discussing..... the false teachings of Dispensational Premillennialism because it is DPism that teaches a two-kingdoms theology and withdrawal from secular society (although the latter has improved over the last half-century).

If this is accurate, then it is certainly untrue.

Exactly.

When I have time I will post a quote from Chafer, or Ryrie, or Vlach confirming this teaching. I'll post it so you can read it in the words of the Dispensationalists themselves. Until then, if this is not what you believe then you might not be a Dispensationalist and that is the whole point of these six ops:


If and when Dispensational Premillennialists stop and examine what the theology teaches, they will find it teaches many things (not just a few) that are untrue when measured by the exegetical reading of God's word. Realizing that fact, it is my hope that Dispensationalists will either 1) leave Dispensationalism, or 2) work vigorously to reform it because, as you just said, "If this is accurate, then it is untrue," and therefore in need of either reform or abandonment.

I left.

I was a Dispy, and when a friend of mine sat me down with Bible in hand and open and showed me what scripture actually states in comparison to what I as a Dispensationalist believed and was telling others I was shocked at the disparity. It did not change my point of view but I did go home and beginning studying God's word and increasingly discovered what I'd been taught was not what scripture teaches.

So I left Dispensational Premillennialism.

Quack prophets of the Lord's coming is not unique to dispensationalism.

Prove it.

No other eschatology willing teaches its adherents to make predictions that don't come true. That's a fact, and if you can provide me with an authority in any other theology blatantly teaching that's okay then I will amend all my future posts accordingly. No other theology accepts teachers making predictions that never come true in their teachings Dispensationalism not only accepts the practice, it foments the practice, AND it shrugs its shoulders when the predictions don't come true. It's been happening for almost 200 years and not once have any of them ever done anything to restrain or reform the teaching that prompts the false teaching or reform it. Hal Lindsay is still permitted to make millions of dollars selling books that amount to nothing more than rank speculation. The same is true of David Jermiah, John MacArthur, Michael Youssef, Gary Hamrick, Jack Graham, Gregg Laurie and scores of other Dispensationalists.

So if you can prove other theologies actively teach its adherents its okay to do what they do in either comparable frequency or comparable severity then please do so. Don't make wanton claims you cannot prove and expect me to give that kind of baseless comment any credence.

Do it now.


Or..... accept the fact that Dispensationalism is unique in both its frequency, the severity, and the acceptance of both. No other theology does what they do willingly and openly.

Not true. I know some holiness Pentecosts that get pretty closse....

Pentecostals tend to be Dispensationalist. Your anecdotal example confirms this op. It doesn't refute it.

The problem of course, is there's no Scripture given to disprove the doctrine of dispensationalism.

That's an argument from silence.

The simple fact is scripture does not divide itself up by "dispensations." Neither does scripture define a dispensation the way Dispensationalists do. Dispensationalism takes a word from scripture, defines it they devise, literally inventing the definition absent scripture, and then they divide scripture up according to the man-made invention. One of the unspoken (and perhaps unwitting) results is the subordination of God's word to men.

And the onus is on the Dispensationalist to prove Dispensational Premillennialism true and correct, not me to disprove it.

I am not a dispensationalist as I read from their own pages.

Excellent. Then join me supporting and defending this op.

But that's mostly because I believe much of it is uslessly superfluous.

I might agree, but whether superfluous or not,

• We have millions of Christians running around the world looking for events their teachers told them would happen but never do.
• We have millions of Christians mucking up discussion boards with ops that aren't true, built on a hermeneutic that is unscriptural, making threads they either cannot or will not defend, and thereby having an adverse effect on the body of Christ.
• We have millions of Christians living their lives in a manner wholly inconsistent with what they preach.
• Perhaps most importantly, we have millions of Christians bearing a false witness about Christ, one that outsiders look at and use to deny Christianity. Why would anyone want to join a group of people who constantly lie? Why would anyone want to join a group of people who are worse hypocrites than the average Christian?

And none of that should be. We should all work together to either reform this very, very problematic theology or discard it wholly.

 

[Ghada]

DPism teaches there are two kingdoms;

There are two kingdoms on earth of flesh and blood people: The kingdom of darkness with the citzenry of disobedience to God. The kingdom of Jesus Christ with citizenry obedient to the risen God of Israel.

Col 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints inWho hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

To deny either kingdom is unbelief in Scripture. And the denial is by carnal mindedness toward the things of the Spirit of life now at work in the righteous, and the opposition of the spirit of this world, that is working in the children of disobedience.

They assert two groups of "God's people," not one.

If you mean, they believe Israel after flesh and natural Jews are still God's chosen people, then I agree it is wrong.

However, I'm going to need to start seeing quotes from dispensational doctrine, so as not to be arguing with your own version.

At this time, Israel after the flesh is just another uncircumcised nation of people. Anyone in that nation can repent to confess the Lord Jesus, just like in all nations on earth.

God's only nation of flesh and blood people on earth today, is His Son's holy church and righteous body members.

1Pe 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Eph 5:30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

The Church and Israel are completely different groups,

True. The Israel of Go on earth is now only spiritually born and circumcised into the church and body of Jesus Christ. His nation of holy saints on earth is not bound by any birth of flesh, nor national citizenship of men and women.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We are all of thee same natural flesh and blood since the first Adam and with the second coming into the world, but that is the only common ground between obedient sons of God, and disobedient sinners of the world. (Other than national citizenship among men, and the common things natural to all flesh on earth)

they two do not overlap in DPism.

Clarify.

 

[Josheb]

There are two kingdoms on earth of flesh and blood people: The kingdom of darkness with the citzenry of disobedience to God. The kingdom of Jesus Christ with citizenry obedient to the risen God of Israel.

Scripturally, Jesus is King and Lord over both.

There is, therefore, only one kingdom. One kingdom ruled by one King. When scripture speaks of the kingdom of X or the kingdom of Y or the kingdom of Z, it should be understood within the context of the entire Bible that EVERYTHING is ruled by God, and God alone. No one has any "rule" over anything unless God almighty says so. That word "almighty" means He and He alone is ALL mighty. Everyone and everything is, by definition, less than mighty. So any "kingdom" that is ever mentioned is, likewise, necessarily understood as a lesser kingdom, a fiefdom, or vassal, and not a kingdom with no King above that kingdom's king. All those other rulers have a Lord and LORD above them. ALL of them.

So................. understand all the kingdom of darkness/light stuff is off topic. This op is about the teachings of Dispensational Premillennialism, and Dispensational Premillennialism alone..... and NOT what scripture teaches. Every single time you feel the impulse to post anything about what you think scripture teaches there's a good chance that impulse is misguided. The two-kingdoms theology DPism teaches has absolutely nothing with Post 5.




The two kingdoms theology that Dispensationalism teaches is the earthly kingdom of Jews and the heavenly, spiritual, kingdom of the Church. It has absolutely nothing to do with the kingdom of darkness versus the kingdom of light.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches....

• God has two peoples, not one.
• One of God's peoples is the geo-political nation-state Israel, or the Jews.
• The other God's people is the Church.
• Each group has its own God-given purpose.
• Each group has its own God-given objective or outcome.
• The purpose and goal God has for each group is exclusive to one another; they do not overlap and there is no continuity between the two.
• Jesus is king, and he currently rules in heaven, but he does not rule on earth.
• Jesus will not rule the earth until he physically comes to earth during the millennium and establishes his millennial reign. Then, and only then, will the kingdom be established.

Those are the tenets of Dispensational two-kingdoms theology. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the two kingdoms cited in Post 5.

Clarify.

Done.

The two kingdoms of Post 5 have nothing to do with the two-kingdoms theology of Dispensational Premillennialism. The two kingdoms of Dispensationalism's two-kingdoms theology is that of the kingdom of Christ in heaven versus the kingdom of Christ on earth, the spiritual kingdom in which the Church reigns with Christ in heaven versus the earthly kingdom of Israel from which Jesus will reign.

It's a false teaching.

 

[Ghada]

they deny the all-encompassing single reign of Christ and assert a kingdom here on earth and a kingdom in heaven.,

I doubt there is any dispensational doctrine for this, but just a typically bad spin some people make to reinterpret what others teach. It's done with many teachings. There are always detractor that can't Scripturally dispute something, that they don't agree with and/or don't personally like. It's no different in nature than saying trinitarians preach a Christian paganism of 3 separate Gods.

Yes, I am sure about those words. When John Darby first formalized and began teaching his views he demanded Christians withdraw from society.

In this regard, since you're the ex-resident expert, I'll not dispute your testimony. But once again, without quoting the doctrine, it doesn't mean dispensationalism teaches it. And JWs preach the same thing. The Qumran Jews practiced it. I also doubt if monastery monks are all dispensationalists.

Paul was rebuking it in Scripture, rebuking such extreme aescetism is of no profit to the spirit nor the flesh. It can also errantly cause fault to be found with the gospel of Jesus Christ's circumcision and sanctification from the lust and sins of the world. As an ex-holiness Pentecostal preacher, I know it all too well, both doctrinally and in practice.

@Ghada, you're not arguing against me; you're arguing against Dispensational Premillennialism. I am not the one teaching a two-kingdoms theology or hermitism.

Don't say you do. I only want two specific things: Scriptural proofs that the doctrine of dispensationism is false. You've yet to given one Scripture to say so. And Quotes from dispensationalist doctrine teaching what you say they teach, or historical record showing their teaching being procticed.

We'll let the latter go on the basis of your own personal testimony. However, that still doesn't mean that dispensationalism teaches the practice. We'll need doctrinal quotes for that.

Do not make this about you versus me

It's not. There's nothing personal in this. If you are prepared to show any Scripture depriving dispensationalism, then do so. However, we'll need doctrinal quotes to ensure no bad spinning is being done.

This op is specifically about false teachings of Dispensational Premillennialism.

No, it's not. You have not given one excerpt from dispensationasl doctrine, alongside any Scriptural rejection of it.

When I have time I will post a quote from Chafer, or Ryrie, or Vlach confirming this teaching. I'll post it so you can read it in the words of the Dispensationalists themselves.

Great thanks.

If and when Dispensational Premillennialists stop and examine what the theology teaches, they will find it teaches many things (not just a few) that are untrue when measured by the exegetical reading of God's word.

Can't wait to see it.

Dispensationalism not only accepts the practice, it foments the practice,

Show by quoting the doctrine, that compels predictions of the Lord's return.

Or..... accept the fact that Dispensationalism is unique in both its frequency, the severity, and the acceptance of both.

No problem with that based upon your own eyewitness testimony. Still doesn't prove the doctrine is the problem.

So, at this point I'll only entertain a Scripture from you disproving the doctrine itself. The doctrine must be quoted alongside any Scripture rebuking it as false.

And also, give any doctrinal quote compelling predictions of the Lord's return. I accept your testimony of practicioners doing so. I can even imagine exhortation to pray for predictions, but it still doesn't mean the doctrine teaches it.

Pentecostals tend to be Dispensationalist. Your anecdotal example confirms this op. It doesn't refute it.

We didn't teach dsipensationalism. I was a full member and licensed member for over 10 years, and not once was dispensationalsim ever taught. As it still is with me today, we didn't care about it.

It's only a doctrinal curiosity to me, that I see as merely an intellectual exercise of littel importance. Other than confirming the Lord's coming and millinnium on earth. And personally giving to Abraham the land promised to him, and his natural seed remaining alive on earth.

That's an argument from silence.

Ok. So, you have no Scripture to disprove the teaching. No problem. No Scripture comes to my mind either. I'd call your thread "Some Inherit problems practiced by some dispensational premillinialists."

Inherint is acceptable, only because anyone faithfully watching for the Lord's return to earth, can almost naturally wish to predict it, Even in light of the Lord's own warning against trying to do so, when He prophesied His coming with power and great glory. And examples of such such predictions are well known among the Christianity community, and unbelievers alike.

It's a safe target for mocking stupid, especially when destructive to faith and life. There are also more subtle less intended ways to burden the churches with it, if you'd like to hear about it. (Hint: nothing does better to get the church punding the pavement to get them sinners in the church house, if 'perhaps' He really may be coming soon. Good ol' impassioned local church recruitment for souls, with cash...)

 

[Ghada]

Ghada said:
Quack prophets of the Lord's coming is not unique to dispensationalism.

Prove it.

Not everyone watching for the Lord's return, is tempted to make predictions, and not everyone watching for Him, does so by a dispensational doctrine. Watching for the Lord's resturn is commanded by the Lord Himself, not by dispensationalism.

My own testimony of an errant leader doing so, has nothing to do with dispensationalism, even as the command to watch for the Lord's coming.

And so, I know of at least one exception.

The simple fact is scripture does not divide itself up by "dispensations."

On earth everyday minus 1, there is the age of innocence, conscience, gvt, promise, law, grace, and millennial kiingdom.

The last of course is not yet come on earth, as it is in heaven, because the Lord is not yet come to rule all smitten and inherited nations on earth. No, I have no prediction. I watch daily by His faith, and it is sifficient for me. After all, tomorrow may not come for me on earth anyway.

The only questionable part of dispensationalism to me, is the teaching that God deals with man differently at times on earth.

Hebrews{13:8} Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Gen 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ezek 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Rom 2:12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

not me to disprove it.

Actually not true. It's one thing to say you don't believe or agree with something personally. But if you declare it a false doctrine against the Bible, then you must show Scripture to prove your accusation is not false.

There are plenty of private interpretations of the Bible, that can be put forth, so long as no Scripture rejects it. The only limitation is that there must be sure Scripture for it, in order to teach it for certain.

My own conclusion, without looking too closely at doctrinal details, is that people can teach and believe it, if they wish, since no Scriptural objectioin comes to mind. However, neither would I at this time recieve it as sure doctrine of the Bible. Unless someone can show Scripture confirming any part of it.

In any case, dsipensationalism is in no way necessary to believe in the Lord's return, watch for His coming, and trust He will rule all nations on earth for a thousand years, which will begin with giving the land promised to old Abraham in the flesh, to the newly resurrected Abraham, as well as his natural seed remaining alive on earth. (Not those, of course, that will be inhabitors killed by plagues, rebels slaughtered by the war, or judged as worthless goats.)

And the onus is on the Dispensationalist to prove Dispensational Premillennialism true and correct,

So, since you have no Scripture against dispensationalism, I'm thinking the operative word you really are against is, Premillennialism.

You're reject the prophecy of the Lord's kingdom millinium on earth, right?

 

[Ghada]

Scripturally, Jesus is King and Lord over both.

Saying 'Scripturally' sounds Scriptural, but only Scripture quoted is Scriptural. You have a dirth of any quoted Scripture for anything you've posted so far. I understand it's not always necessary to always include quoted verses, but with me, unless I already know the Scripture for something, I want to see it.

Afterall, Jesus Christ is not Lord over the kingdom of darkness. Another Christ no doubt, but not Jesus Christ.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

There is, therefore, only one kingdom.

Still two. One darkness under the god of this world, and the other Lord Jesus over the saints in light.

One kingdom ruled by one King. When scripture speaks of the kingdom of X or the kingdom of Y or the kingdom of Z, it should be understood within the context of the entire Bible

I agree. One verse will do for now.

that EVERYTHING is ruled by God, and God alone.

God has the rule over all things, but He is not ruling anyone doing iniquity, much less a whole kingdom of dark children.

He is ruling all things on earth around every creature on earth, but He is not ruling the life of any child of disobedience.

He's also longusffering in mercy unto repentance, not to allow the disobedient to die before repentance. But, that can only be suffered for so long with men and women in the flesh.

No one has any "rule" over anything unless God almighty says so.

True. And if man chooses to rule it by and for himself alone, then God can also allow that for a season.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

All authority is given by God, but unfortuantely not all authrotiy is being exercised by God, nor for the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

Tit 1:10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Jas 3:8But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

That word "almighty" means He and He alone is ALL mighty.

Goes without saying.

Everyone and everything is, by definition, less than mighty.

Actually, it would be less than almighty. David had several mighty men. And Apollos was mighty in the Scriptures...

So any "kingdom" that is ever mentioned is, likewise, necessarily understood as a lesser kingdom, a fiefdom, or vassal,

Of some king on earth. Yes. And if an evil king, then ruled under the god of this world. If righteous, then ruled by the Lord Himself.

and not a kingdom with no King above that kingdom's king.

Uh. Ok.

All those other rulers have a Lord and LORD above them. ALL of them.

There is the Lord above all men, but He is not the Lord of all men. Not all men have the Lord Jesus Christ, nor confess Him Lord Jesus, nor is their rule exercised by the Lord.

So................. understand all the kingdom of darkness/light stuff is off topic.

Yes sir! (I like watching video of Jack Niklaus' last Master's victory. A mighty one indeed.)

Of course, it became on topic when you introduced it. It's your thread, I suppose.

This op is about the teachings of Dispensational Premillennialism, and Dispensational Premillennialism alone..

More like examples of abuses by some teachers of dispensational premillennialism.

Every single time you feel the impulse to post anything about what you think scripture teaches there's a good chance that impulse is misguided.

Really? So, that's why you don'tpost any Scripture? Well, better safe than sorry, I guess.

I enjoy posting Scripture. Not only because I like reading Scripture, but also I like to show I only teach from Scripture: Sola Scriptura

 

[Josheb]

I doubt there is any dispensational doctrine for this, but just a typically bad spin some people make to reinterpret what others teach.

Please leave this thread until you have educated yourself in Dispensational teachings and know how to stay on topic.

Wiki:

Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities. It also widely holds to the pretribulational return of Christ, which believes that Jesus will return to take up Christians into heaven by means of a rapture immediately before a seven-year worldwide tribulation. This will be followed by an additional return of Christ with his saints....​

Founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, Lewis Sperry Chafer: (note: this is a pdf file)

It has been said "All Scripture is for us, but all Scripture is not about us." It all bears a message to us, but is not all our rule of life. It will not do for Gentile believers to read themselves into the great portion of the Bible which treats distinctly of a chosen nation, still a separate people in the earth, under the special unbroken purpose of God and exactly where God intended them to be at this very hour. So with Christ: He was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:8). This describes a strictly Jewish mission and purpose. He was also the grounds of personal justification to the Gentile believers (1 Corinthians 1:3-8; 2 Corinthians 5:21); but the two are separate.​

Leading contempoprary Dispensationalist Michael Vlach:

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times. It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel, and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.​

Another issue involves the relationship of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven. Classical/Traditional Dispensationalism sometimes claimed these two kingdoms were different—the former referring to God’s general rule over the universe, the latter referring to the Messiah’s coming kingdom upon the earth. But Revised and Progressive Dispensationalism have stated that kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven refer to the same thing. Early Classical and Traditional Dispensationalism argued that there are two peoples of God—one with an earthly destiny and the other with a heavenly destiny. Revised and Progressive Dispensationalism assert that all believers of all ages share the same destiny on a restored earth. To use another example, Progressive Dispensationalism breaks from both Classical and Revised Dispensationalism by affirming that there is real covenant fulfillment (not just application) of the covenants of promise (Abrahamic, Davidic, New) to the church.​

My posts are not a "bad spin" or a "reinterpretation" of what Dispensationalism teaches.

 

[Josheb]

Really? So, that's why you don't post any Scripture? Well, better safe than sorry, I guess.

There are no scripture stating two completely separate peoples exist. There is, however, scripture plainly reporting there is no rule above Jesus.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth."

Ephesians 1:15-23
For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Philippians 2:8-11
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Jesus is King over everything. All other kingdoms are subordinate and subject to him.

I enjoy posting Scripture. Not only because I like reading Scripture, but also I like to show I only teach from Scripture: Sola Scriptura

If that were true then you would already know the scriptures that teach Jesus, and Jesus alone is King of all kings, and Lord over all other lords, and there'd be no need to ask for them here. The fact is I did provide scripture, either referenced or quoted, and you did not give any of it consideration in your posts. Instead, you called into question my presentation of Dispensationalism when it is now clear you don't have a clue what DPism teaches.


That makes you a troll.

 

[Ghada]

The two kingdoms theology that Dispensationalism teaches is the earthly kingdom of Jews and the heavenly, spiritual, kingdom of the Church. It has absolutely nothing to do with the kingdom of darkness versus the kingdom of light.

Ok. So, there are two separate kingdoms of flesh and blood on earth, not one alone, but there are not two separate kingdoms of God on earth, one flesh, one spiritual.

1Co 1:13Is Christ divided?

Mar 3:24And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

I don't know if the nation of the Israelies call themselves a kingdom, or the kingdom of the God of Israel? Other than perhaps the same kind of zealot Jews, that rebelled against Rome?

All nations ruled by men on earth today are uncircumcised Gentile to the risen God of Israel. There is only one nation of Jesus Christ on earth in the flesh:

Eph 5:30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches....

• God has two peoples, not one.
• One of God's peoples is the geo-political nation-state Israel, or the Jews.
• The other God's people is the Church.

1 Cor{14:33} For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

• Each group has its own God-given purpose.
• Each group has its own God-given objective or outcome.

The one group is under the longsuffering purpose of God to repent and be saved. The other group is in the glorious purpose of God to raise them from the dead in Jesus' likeness, by enduring temptation with obedience unto the end.

• Jesus is king, and he currently rules in heaven, but he does not rule on earth.

I doubt they say He does not rule their lives lived in acceptable sacrifice to His will.

He's of course not on earth ruling now. He was seen of many after His resurrection from the dead. He was seen of Paul headed to Damascus. (From the ground) He was on Patmos. No Scripture records any other times of the resurrected Lord Himself on earth. Angels of course can still visit and be seen unawares.

• Jesus will not rule the earth until he physically comes to earth during the millennium and establishes his millennial reign. Then, and only then, will the kingdom be established.

True. He will judge His people, resurrect His saints, meet them in the air, pour out wrath upon the inhabitors of the earth, slaughter the armies around Judea, set foot on the mount, build His temple with hands of helpers from the heaps of Jerusalem, give Abraham the land he walked on in the flesh, with his living natural seed, and rule all inherited nations on earth with rod of iron.

I forgot, All survivors of wrath and war, will be divided between kind sheep and useless goats. The sheep will enter into the Lord's kingdom, and the goats will be executed. I believe Jesus' prophecy is that the sheep will aslo be born again confessing Him Lord Jesus. Also, the gospel will be preached everywhere, with any and all nations free to come hear the King for themselves. (Even if they need to hold to the skirts of Jews to get there.)

The Lord's kingdom on earth, shall be as it is in heaven. Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Done

Thanks.

In general with the two divided 'kingdoms' of God and two separate 'chosen' people, I'm sure many dispensationalists teach that carnal mindedness for the flesh. They might as well teach outward circucmision is still honored by the risen Lamb of God, if you're a born Jew...but only if on the 8th day.

Rom 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

the spiritual kingdom in which the Church reigns with Christ in heaven versus the earthly kingdom of Israel from which Jesus will reign. It's a false teaching.

Yes, it is false. At least in part.

There is no present reigning of the church with Jesus Christ in heaven, nor on earth. That's just more confusion of the body of Christ having co-Heads. (Though some pastor-lords act like it.) We don't reign with Christ over our own lives, much less any angels in heaven, nor rulers on earth. If we are are reigning in part over our lives, we need to repent completely, and take up our own cross for Jesus' sake.

The only souls of saints under the altar of heaven, are the dead in Christ with their bodies still in graves on earth. Afterall, if we on earth are also in heaven, much less reigning there, then like John in the Spirit, we'd see what he saw. That's because we would actually be there.

The heavenly places we sit in now, is our pure hearts of Jesus Christ, who is head of the body. We're all still here on earth in the flesh, not in the throneroom of heaven 'in spirit' sipping nectar of the gods, or drinking universe dew. At least I'm not. (Yes. I like Kung Fu Panda)

And of course, He has not come the second time, and the first resurrection is not yet come with Him.

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Other than that nonsense, the earthly nation and priesthood of Abraham and the Jews on this earth, will be with the Lord seated on his throne of glory from Jersualem, reigning with His blessed resurrected saints over all nations of the earth.

The cities for resurrected saints to exercise authority over, will be the rewards given for faithful enduring service until death, or His appearing in air.

I have Scripture for every part and in general, if you'd like to see them.

 

[Ghada]

Please leave this thread until you have educated yourself in Dispensational teachings and know how to stay on topic.

Pretty please? With sugar on top?

Just been following your lead.

Wiki:

Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities. It also widely holds to the pretribulational return of Christ, which believes that Jesus will return to take up Christians into heaven by means of a rapture immediately before a seven-year worldwide tribulation. This will be followed by an additional return of Christ with his saints....​

Founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, Lewis Sperry Chafer: (note: this is a pdf file)

It has been said "All Scripture is for us, but all Scripture is not about us." It all bears a message to us, but is not all our rule of life. It will not do for Gentile believers to read themselves into the great portion of the Bible which treats distinctly of a chosen nation, still a separate people in the earth, under the special unbroken purpose of God and exactly where God intended them to be at this very hour. So with Christ: He was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:8). This describes a strictly Jewish mission and purpose. He was also the grounds of personal justification to the Gentile believers (1 Corinthians 1:3-8; 2 Corinthians 5:21); but the two are separate.​

Leading contempoprary Dispensationalist Michael Vlach:

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times. It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel, and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.​

Another issue involves the relationship of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven. Classical/Traditional Dispensationalism sometimes claimed these two kingdoms were different—the former referring to God’s general rule over the universe, the latter referring to the Messiah’s coming kingdom upon the earth. But Revised and Progressive Dispensationalism have stated that kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven refer to the same thing. Early Classical and Traditional Dispensationalism argued that there are two peoples of God—one with an earthly destiny and the other with a heavenly destiny. Revised and Progressive Dispensationalism assert that all believers of all ages share the same destiny on a restored earth. To use another example, Progressive Dispensationalism breaks from both Classical and Revised Dispensationalism by affirming that there is real covenant fulfillment (not just application) of the covenants of promise (Abrahamic, Davidic, New) to the church.​

My posts are not a "bad spin" or a "reinterpretation" of what Dispensationalism teaches.

I haven't time now. But I promise to review your words, along with your generous copy and pasting. Thanks. (Although, I'm quite sure neither the doctrine nor any of these teachers say that Christ is not ruling anywhere on earth, but certainly confess Him ruling in their own lives.)

 

[Josheb]

Yes, it is false. At least in part.

And that is the point of the op.

All the exposition from your point of view is unnecessary and unwanted. This is not a thread about comparing viewpoints between one non-DPer and any other non-DPer. I'm not going to weigh in with my views on your views (or anyone else's) unless it has to do with verifying the falsehood of Dispensational teachings.

I have Scripture for every part and in general,

Scripture is a good thing.

if you'd like to see them.

Not even a little.

I do not see any evidence the op or its purpose was understood (at all), and the evidence shows a willful intent to impose one's views on irrelevant topics despite a lack of knowledge pertaining to Dispensational Premillennialism. Neither do I read any expression of regret or repentance when the op was clarified, and this has happened in both of the DP-critical threads in which you've posted. You seem to have misunderstood the op and its purpose from the beginning and posted personal views regarding irrelevant concerns and done so without any evidence of repentance or regret.

Wherever there is a lack of knowledge or understanding pertaining to what Dispensational Premillennialism teaches it is best to ask, not assume. Although the video is short on details that are important to understand the entirety of DPism's falsehoods, there is a fairly good exposition of Dispensational Premillennialism HERE by Michael Vlach (who is one of DPism's contemporary leading advocates). Viewing that video, a poster can understand basic DP teachings from a DPist in his own words.

 

[Ghada]

Please leave this thread until you have educated yourself in Dispensational teachings and know how to stay on topic.

I.e. you acknowledge the thread is not about the title, but something else. If it were about a doctrine you accuse of being false, you would have begun with any point of the doctrine, and shown it false by Scripture.

The demand to do so, is upholding the integrity of the title. If you don't want the title to be the subject, then I believe you can get a moderator to change it to something more accurate, like "Bad practices of some dispensationalists".

Also, since you've brought up the subject of the thread, then we can also clear up the false narrative of a 'dispensational premillennialism", as though premillennialism is only the resut of dispensational teaching.

Millennialism is a Bible prophecy with the Lord's return to earth, that many believe and seek and watch for. Therefore, any time before His return is premillenial earth.

Proving or disproving dispensationalism has nothing to do with the prophecy of the coming millennial of the Lord on earth. Believing that or not is only a matter of Scriptural proof.

And, since the prophecy is for a thousand years, and so called His Millennium, then any teaching of the Lord reigning for any amount of time other than a thousand years, is by definition not a millennial teaching.

 

[Josheb]

And, since the prophecy is for a thousand years, and so called His Millennium, then any teaching of the Lord reigning for any amount of time other than a thousand years, is by definition not a millennial teaching.

Dispensationalism teaches Jesus is physically living on earth, temporarily, for a literal one thousand years. The only place in scripture that mentions the one thousand years is Revelation 20. Do you find any verse in that chapter explicitly stating Jesus is physically on earth? How about the chapter before that (Rev. 19)? Is there even a single sentence in either chapter that explicitly states Jesus is physically on the earth?

Your answer should be, "no," and an unqualified no because the fact of the scripture is nothing of the sort is actually, explicitly stated in either chapter. It is not until chapter 21 that Jesus is explicitly reported to come to earth. Whether the "one thousand years" is literal or figurative is immaterial to the fact Jesus is not stated to be on the earth during that period of time....... yet Dispensationalism teaches otherwise.



In other words, regardless of what any other theology teaches, regardless of what you think, regardless of what I think, Dispensationalism teaches a position that is NOT supported by a single explicit statement in the verse to which the appeal and upon which they build that position. Theirs is a premillennial teaching that is irreconcilable with what is stated in the text. There are only two options: 1) the DP position is arrived at through an exegetic inference, or it is reached through an eisegetic inference. An exegetic inference can occur only if there is some other verse directly related to Revelation 20:2-6. and as far as the text of Revelation goes, there isn't a single verse that reports Jesus is on earth until chapter 21! Any inferential appeal has to come from outside the book of Revelation..... and it cannot contradict what is stated in Revelation! What you think, I think, Bert thinks, Ernie thinks, Fred and ethel or Ricky and Lucy think does not matter. What matters is scripture (you're a big fan of scripture).

The bottom line is Dispensational Premillennialism teaches falsehoods.

I linked you to a video by Vlach, a noted Dispy, teaching DPism. In that video he states Dispensationalism is necessarily premillennialist and predominantly teaches a pre-tribulational rapture. No other theology separates the rapture from the second, or final, return of Christ. Only Dispensationalism does that. Dispensationalism teaches the rapture will remove all the Christians from the earth prior to the tribulation. Here's what scriptures states.....

Revelation 7:13-15
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them."

Christians go through the tribulation. They are NOT removed from the earth beforehand. This is supported in Jesus' Olivet discourse when he states,

Matthew 24:9
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Matthew 24:21-22
For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


Christians will be handed over to tribulation, and the great tribulation would be cut short for the sake of the elect. That is what the text of scripture actually, factually, literally, explicitly states. It does not matter what anyone else believes about the tribulation or the one thousand years. This op is not about anyone else's beliefs. Dispensational Premillennialism teaches positions other than what is plainly stated in scripture. Dispensationalism's teachings are so radically different from everything else taught in Christendom that their teachings are reconcilable. In other words, Dispensationalism's teachings on the rapture and the millennium aren't just irreconcilable with scripture, they're also irreconcilable with 2000 years of Christian thought, doctrine, and practice.

Either Dispensationalism is correct, and all the rest of Christianity has been wrong for the last 2000 years, or Christianity is correct, and Dispensationalism is wrong. If the former, how can Dispensationalism claim to be Christian if it denies what Christianity has been teaching since its inception?


It cannot.

 

[Ghada]

There are no scripture stating two completely separate peoples exist.

Sons of God vs children of disobedience. The former pertains to the kingdom of the Son, and the latter pertains to the kingdom of darkness.

Two separate kingdoms of flesh and blood one earth.

There is, however, scripture plainly reporting there is no rule above Jesus.

True.

Jesus is King over everything. All other kingdoms are subordinate and subject to him.

Already responded to this.

 

[Josheb]

Sons of God vs children of disobedience. The former pertains to the kingdom of the Son, and the latter pertains to the kingdom of darkness. Two separate kingdoms of flesh and blood one earth.

Alas, there are no scriptures stating the two peoples of Dispensational Premillennialism's teaching exist

True.

Then all other kingdoms fall within Christ's kingdom and Dispensationalism has it wrong.

 

[Ghada]

Wiki:

Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities. ​

False.

It also widely holds to the pretribulational return of Christ,... by means of a rapture immediately before a seven-year worldwide tribulation. ​

Partly true. Today is premillenial earth before the Lord's return. It's only pretribulational wrath of God upon all the earth, that the saints are not appointed to. Tribulation of saints is here from the ungodly, until He comes again.

That last great triublation and wrath of God upon all the earth, will be a mercifully quick and short work of the Lord from the air, that will sharply end with the Lamb's slaughter by war around Judea.

which believes that Jesus will return to take up Christians into heaven ​

Not into heaven. Into the air to meet the Lord coming out of heaven, with His armies of angels.

This will be followed by an additional return of Christ with his saints....​

With the war, the Lord and His saints come down from the clouds in the air, to make war and stand upon the earth.

Founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, Lewis Sperry Chafer: (note: this is a pdf file)

It has been said "All Scripture is for us, but all Scripture is not about us."​

All Scripure is about God, and the dealing of God with all men created in His image, and lightened by Christ coming into the world. Also about His angels vs the angels that sinned.

Two separate angels: one in heaven, the other in chains. Two separate people and kingdoms on earth: One walking in the kingdom of light, and the other walking in the kingdom of darkness.

It will not do for Gentile believers to read themselves into the great portion of the Bible which treats distinctly of a chosen nation,​

True. We no longer read the OT and law of Moses for faith and obedience to the risen God of Israel. We are now in the NT and law of Christ, that he Perosnally delivered to His chosen apostles.

However, we do read them for our instruction in serving the Lord Jesus Christ.

still a separate people in the earth, under the special unbroken purpose of God​

False. Not today. The Israeli nation is just another uncircumcised nation gentiled to God. It's a better nation than many on earth, but not the Lord God's holy nation on earth.

and exactly where God intended them to be at this very hour.​

Calvin predeterminism is false. God knows all things from the beginning, because the Word watches all things coming to pass.

He was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:8).​

He would have confirmed the all the promises of the seed Christ, as well as the land given to him and his natural seed, if they had recieved Jesus Christ in the flesh. They did not.

Now for the father's sake, the resurrected Lord grafts in again them the repent of His death, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11 is all about rebuking the belief of new gentile converts to Jesus Christ, that Jews cannot be redeemed for killing the propmised Messiah of God.

This describes a strictly Jewish mission and purpose.​

God descirbes the present strictly Jewish mission and purpose on earth today, as strictly the Jews religion, not that of the risen Lamb of God.

All religions of men without the Lord Jesus, are anathema to God. Along with their mission and purposes, no matter how strict.

He was also the grounds of personal justification to the Gentile believers (1 Corinthians 1:3-8; 2 Corinthians 5:21);​

True.

but the two are separate.​

True. Jews religion and circumcision doesn't justify anyone with the Lord.

Leading contempoprary Dispensationalist Michael Vlach:

It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel,​

Resurrected Abraham and his natural seed remaining alive on earth, will recieve the land promised to Abraham by God Almighty. That promise will be fulfilled at the beginning of His reign on earth, which is after the plagues of His wrath from the air, His warfare of slaughter around Judea, and the King's judgment between sheep and goats still alive on earth.

and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.​

False. The body of Christ on earth is the flesh and blood of the Israel of the risen LORD God of heaven and earth.

His body will continue during His millennial reign, with the greatest harvest of souls to the Lord in a thousand years, than all the years since righteous Abel. They will live alongside them that only obey the King's law outwardly.

Another issue involves the relationship of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven.​

The kingdom of God on earth is the flesh and bones of the Head Jesus Christ. The kingdom of heaven is in heaven.

The millennial kingdom of the Lord and King Jesus, will be His kingdom on all the earth, as it is in heaven.

Early Classical and Traditional Dispensationalism argued that there are two peoples of God—one with an earthly destiny and the other with a heavenly destiny.​

False. God's kingdom is not divided, and Jesus does not have two Heads over His body and righteous kingdom on earth.

Revised and Progressive Dispensationalism assert that all believers of all ages share the same destiny on a restored earth.​

There will be no restored earth, but a new heaven and earth, with the old heaven and earth passed away. There won't be any sea on the new earth.

To use another example, Progressive Dispensationalism breaks from both Classical and Revised Dispensationalism by affirming that there is real covenant fulfillment (not just application) of the covenants of promise (Abrahamic, Davidic, New) to the church.​

The only part Gentiles will have in the land Abraham walked on, will be as welcome strangers. Nor will any outwardly uncircumcised Gentile nor Jew be part of the natural priesthood of King Jesus in Jerusalem.

Thanks for the information. It's not the doctrine of dispensationalism, but obviously a corrupted result pertaining to prophecy of Scripture, and most imnportantly a rejection of the flesh and blood Israel of God in Christ Jesus.

It's also fawning lip service for Jews, which they could care less about. They don't need to be agreed with, to believe they are still the LORD's chosen people in the flesh.

The risen Lord doesn't even bother disagreeing with them, since they had the LORD crucified on a cross.

 

[Ghada]

My posts are not a "bad spin" or a "reinterpretation" of what Dispensationalism teaches.

At this time, I only remember one: that dispensationalists reject the power and rule of Christ supreme.

That's a twisted accusation from a spiritualized belief of someone on earth, who fantazises about reigning with Christ in heaven.

It certainly isn't with the Lord Jesus Christ sitting on the right hand of the Father. Nor, do any angels have any respect to their mystical power and reign on high.

And I seriously doubt any of them try to exercise any of that reigning authourity over any unwilling person on earth. Especially not any gvt rulers. Military leaders. Police. Civil bureacrats. Emergency responders. And dog catchers.

Rom 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Oba 1:4Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.