Scriptures that show that Christs death saved a person while in unbelief!

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:10.14 prove that those Christ died for are saved legally and perfectly before they believe, solely by the offering of Christ which speaks to His death for them

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering/death of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering/death he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

How can one be perfected and not be saved?

 

[makesends]

Heb 10:10.14 prove that those Christ died for are saved legally and perfectly before they believe, solely by the offering of Christ which speaks to His death for them

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering/death of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering/death he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

How can one be perfected and not be saved?

HUH??? What is your point here?

 

[brightfame52]

HUH??? What is your point here?

That those for whom Christ died are legally perfected forever solely by the death of Christ. They are forgiven, justified, legally sanctified meaning set apart for Gods use, purified from sin legally, not condemned, all this while in unbelief, b4 the Spiritual application of salvation. You should have known my point just by the thread title sir.

 

[makesends]

That those for whom Christ died are legally perfected forever solely by the death of Christ. They are forgiven, justified, legally sanctified meaning set apart for Gods use, purified from sin legally, not condemned, all this while in unbelief, b4 the Spiritual application of salvation. You should have known my point just by the thread title sir.

My mistake. I thought I was reading in a different thread.

 

[brightfame52]

Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Christ death alone redeemed them He died for from the curse of the law, so they were saved from hell and dying in their sins before they believed.

 

[Paul]

As is stated by the head of the body of Christ there is no reconcilation in unblief.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

So then if God chooses to love someone He will bring about such belief by grace.

The Apostle Paul is a example of someone who didn't believe.
Christ Jesus revealed Himself to Paul. Now Paul is shaken and troubled.
Jesus waited and when He saw Paul praying He sent Ananias for His healing and Paul was also baptized.

So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he IS PRAYING.

Paul, who confessed to be the worst of sinners, is saved by grace through faith.
It can be seen that Paul who had great zeal for the law actualy felt he was acting in service for God until Jesus knocked him of his high horse so to speak. Hence, "who are you Lord?"


But that is just one extreme example.

When this new message of life was preached to Lydia, a worshipper of God, God opened her heart so she could receive the message.

So ground zero is we are all dead in our sin and those who might believe and turn to confess Christ were reconciled to God by His blood shed on the cross.

Paul certainly had a good understanding of grace. We are saved by grace through faith and this not of ourselves.

I don't find it stated in such a manner, "Scriptures that show that Christs death saved a person while in unbelief!"
God might bring about such a belief and ground zero is we are dead in our sins, but we are saved by grace through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

As is stated by the head of the body of Christ there is no reconcilation in unblief.

Yes it is if Christ died for you, there is reconciliation to God while being an enemy.

 

[Paul]

Yes it is if Christ died for you, there is reconciliation to God while being an enemy.

I don't agree with your broad usage of enemy. When were dead in our sins Christ made us alive. I have never been an enemy of God. Yet he forgave my sins by reconciling me to Himself through Christ's blood shed on the cross.

You think Lydia and Cornelis were enemies of God? Both worshipped God beforehand. Both needed their sins removed.

I would classify the Apostle Paul as an enemy of Christ beforehand but He chosen by God from birth for His purposes.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't agree with your broad usage of enemy.

Doesnt matter

You think Lydia and Cornelis were enemies of God?

At one time as it is with all for whom Christ died, we are born that way

Both worshipped God beforehand. Both needed their sins removed.

Their sins were removed by Christs purging them away Heb 1:3 and when they worshipped God they were regenerated but still unlearned in the things of God.

 

[makesends]

I don't agree with your broad usage of enemy. When were dead in our sins Christ made us alive. I have never been an enemy of God. Yet he forgave my sins by reconciling me to Himself through Christ's blood shed on the cross.

You think Lydia and Cornelis were enemies of God? Both worshipped God beforehand. Both needed their sins removed.

I would classify the Apostle Paul as an enemy of Christ beforehand but He chosen by God from birth for His purposes.

When you had the "mind of flesh" before regeneration, you were at enmity with God. Romans 8:7. Romans 5's "peace with God" is by implication and by context, in opposition to the enmity you had with God before regeneration. You, (if you are one of the elect), Paul, and all the elect, were chosen by God from the foundation of the world. None will be saved but those God chose for that purpose. Paul is no exception to that principle.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I don't agree with your broad usage of enemy. When were dead in our sins Christ made us alive. I have never been an enemy of God. Yet he forgave my sins by reconciling me to Himself through Christ's blood shed on the cross.

You think Lydia and Cornelis were enemies of God? Both worshipped God beforehand. Both needed their sins removed.

I would classify the Apostle Paul as an enemy of Christ beforehand but He chosen by God from birth for His purposes.

You think Lydia and Cornelis were enemies of God? Both worshipped God beforehand.

Many people worship "a" god that are not regenerated.

Most of the time that god is self.

There is plenty of so called Christian denominations that worship God and Jesus but are not really saved, especially if they believe Christ did not God come in the flesh.

Churches are filled with self-deceived people who think they are saved.

The unregenerate hate the living God.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

The unregenerate think God and His gospel is foolish, they certainly do not worship Him.

1Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the depths of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually examined.

 

[Paul]

Many people worship "a" god that are not regenerated.

Most of the time that god is self.

There is plenty of so called Christian denominations that worship God and Jesus but are not really saved, especially if they believe Christ did not God come in the flesh.

Churches are filled with self-deceived people who think they are saved.

The unregenerate hate the living God.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

The unregenerate think God and His gospel is foolish, they certainly do not worship Him.

1Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the depths of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually examined.

Your message appears to deal with those who have no reconciliation. Rather than stating Christ saved unbelievers. Ground zero is we were dead in sin and God made us alive in Christ. We are saved by grace "through faith"" and of key importance as well is Godly repentance which is granted by God. Repentance is a key component of true salvation.

A new heart. (Godly repentance)
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

The Devil believes but He can't repent apart from God's granting him repentance which God will not do as I read Satan stands condemned.
Judas couldn't come to a state of repentance. I do believe he saw Jesus as the Christ. He stole from the money purse and was called a thief. God never granted him repentance, and the fault was in Judas's heart not God's.

‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. -Not an enemy or an unbeliever and it was a new message of life being preached and God granting repentance to even the gentiles.

I believe there are those who sin but love God in their heart. They fear God and this pleases the Lord. Who states come! Called by God.

Many are invited but few are chosen.

 

[Paul]

When you had the "mind of flesh" before regeneration, you were at enmity with God. Romans 8:7. Romans 5's "peace with God" is by implication and by context, in opposition to the enmity you had with God before regeneration. You, (if you are one of the elect), Paul, and all the elect, were chosen by God from the foundation of the world. None will be saved but those God chose for that purpose. Paul is no exception to that principle.

Well, I have believed in and loved the Lord as far back as my memory goes as I was steered to Christ from my beginning by my Christian mother but I don't state I was chosen before I did good or bad, but I do believe I was chosen. To be born of God or sealed in Christ by the Spirit is a judgment already made by the will of God, not man, in one's favor. As appointed to eternal life.

Many are invited.

But few are chosen.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Your message appears to deal with those who have no reconciliation. Rather than stating Christ saved unbelievers. Ground zero is we were dead in sin and God made us alive in Christ. We are saved by grace "through faith"" and of key importance as well is Godly repentance which is granted by God. Repentance is a key component of true salvation.

A new heart. (Godly repentance)
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

The Devil believes but He can't repent apart from God's granting him repentance which God will not do as I read Satan stands condemned.
Judas couldn't come to a state of repentance. I do believe he saw Jesus as the Christ. He stole from the money purse and was called a thief. God never granted him repentance, and the fault was in Judas's heart not God's.

‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. -Not an enemy or an unbeliever and it was a new message of life being preached and God granting repentance to even the gentiles.

I believe there are those who sin but love God in their heart. They fear God and this pleases the Lord. Who states come! Called by God.

Many are invited but few are chosen.

Your message appears to deal with those who have no reconciliation

The unregenerate.

I believe there are those who sin but love God in their heart.

Are you talking about unbelievers here? If so, the Bible teaches just the opposite.

The regenerate can and do sin, but they still have love in their heart for the Lord and will repent (turn from) that sin.

 

[makesends]

Well, I have believed in and loved the Lord as far back as my memory goes as I was steered to Christ from my beginning by my Christian mother but I don't state I was chosen before I did good or bad, but I do believe I was chosen. To be born of God or sealed in Christ by the Spirit is a judgment already made by the will of God, not man, in one's favor. As appointed to eternal life.

Many are invited.

But few are chosen.

Scripture says those who come to God (not those who fool themselves) were chosen by God. You needn't state it for it to be so. It is an important principle, and I don't hide it when it seems appropriate to mention it, because GOD is the one who runs this thing. Not us. Our salvation does not depend on us, nor on our decision, nor even gasp on our faithfulness, but only on God's will and God's act. We agree with it, but do not cause it.

I was born a missionary kid. My mother says I received the Lord when I was five. I don't remember. Either way, regeneration need not be an event in itself significant to the awareness, though it also can be. I'm 70 now, and could still be fooling myself.

 

[Paul]

The unregenerate.


Are you talking about unbelievers here? If so, the Bible teaches just the opposite.

The regenerate can and do sin, but they still have love in their heart for the Lord and will repent (turn from) that sin.

In the last days I will pour out my Spirit.....

Prior to these last days we read in the OT of a people who belonged to God. Only in Christ is sin actually taken away.

One who loves and fears God would be someone who believes.

They were given to Christ.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

This state can exist before one is born of God and Godly repentance leads to the knowledge of the truth. God must grant such repentance, and it is grace.
The disciples that walked with Jesus were told of the gift of God. They knew the Holy Spirit for He was with them and Jesus spoke of the day the Spirit would be in Him. The world doesn't know Him for they neither see Him nor hear Him.

 

[brightfame52]

Christs death alone Justified many, hence acquitted them before Gods law and justice without their believing Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

In the last days I will pour out my Spirit.....

Prior to these last days we read in the OT of a people who belonged to God. Only in Christ is sin actually taken away.

One who loves and fears God would be someone who believes.

They were given to Christ.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

This state can exist before one is born of God and Godly repentance leads to the knowledge of the truth. God must grant such repentance, and it is grace.
The disciples that walked with Jesus were told of the gift of God. They knew the Holy Spirit for He was with them and Jesus spoke of the day the Spirit would be in Him. The world doesn't know Him for they neither see Him nor hear Him.

One who loves and fears God would be someone who believes.

Agreed.


However, the unregenerate cannot love and fear the Lord.

 

[atpollard]

God (Father, Son, Spirit) is the CREATOR and must exist beyond (above/outside of/superior to) his creation. God's creation includes SPACE, TIME and every THING (living and inanimate) that exists. It is folly to ascribe temporal limitations (before/after) to GOD who created TIME and exists beyond the control of TIME.

Christ was slain "from the foundation of the world" [Rev 13:8] ... yet the Crucifixion took place in time [Matthew 27:50; John 19:30] ... with both statements true. God is not part of his creation, subject to the limits of creation (including TIME), God is the creator who does as he pleases.

Jeremiah 32:17 [NASB]
'Oh, Lord GOD! Behold, You Yourself have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,

 

[Paul]

Agreed.


However, the unregenerate cannot love and fear the Lord.

God enables Godly repentance which leads to the knowledge of the truth. God enables such people to receive the message=GRACE

We are saved by GRACE through faith.

Unbelievers don't belong to God. His enemies could NOT accept the truth. Some walked away saying His living bread that came down from heaven was to hard for them to accept. He asked His disciples, (implied the apostles), if they wanted to leave as well. They stated where would they go as He alone had the words of eternal life. Jesus states have I not chosen you but one of you is the devil.

Jesus to his adversary's (enemies)=>
Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Hear what?-"the truth" Jesus stated He told them "the truth." They could not accept His words.