Salvation and sanctification is now complete in Christ: Consecration then follows

[Ghada]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit.

1 Cor
{6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... {6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans
{2:28} For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: {2:29} But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

God's sanctification from the lust and sins of the world, is at once even as by circumcision of the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews
{4:12} For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The sanctification of Christ from the old life without God, is the circumcision of Christ and instant operation of the Spirit, made for them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor
{5:17} Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. {5:18} And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.

When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake, then His NT promise of being created a new creature in Christ Jesus, is immediately kept by the Spirit with a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God, and none of the devil.

The progressive sanctification of sinful man's faith, with only half hearted gradual repentance at one's own will of convenience, is not the pure religion of Jesus' righteous faith, that is freely given to them that repent by commandment with a whole heart.

Jerem
{3:9} And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Ezek
{18:30} Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

And so, while there is no progressively diminishing 'gap' between being wholly converted, circumcised, and sanctified in Christ Jesus, there is an increasing call to consecration in His service.

1 Tim
{4:13} Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. {4:14} Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. {4:15} Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Cor
{16:15} I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

 

[Josheb]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit.

1 Cor
{6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... {6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans
{2:28} For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: {2:29} But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

God's sanctification from the lust and sins of the world, is at once even as by circumcision of the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews
{4:12} For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The sanctification of Christ from the old life without God, is the circumcision of Christ and instant operation of the Spirit, made for them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor
{5:17} Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. {5:18} And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.

When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake, then His NT promise of being created a new creature in Christ Jesus, is immediately kept by the Spirit with a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God, and none of the devil.

The progressive sanctification of sinful man's faith, with only half hearted gradual repentance at one's own will of convenience, is not the pure religion of Jesus' righteous faith, that is freely given to them that repent by commandment with a whole heart.

Jerem
{3:9} And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Ezek
{18:30} Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

And so, while there is no progressively diminishing 'gap' between being wholly converted, circumcised, and sanctified in Christ Jesus, there is an increasing call to consecration in His service.

1 Tim
{4:13} Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. {4:14} Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. {4:15} Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Cor
{16:15} I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Are you aware that only one of those verses specifically mentions sanctification? Are you aware there are at least two dozen verses in the Bible that mention sanctification (scores more in the OT) and this op quotes only one of them?

Can you tell me when the following were completed?

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

AFTER Calvary, AFTER Pentecost, and AFTER conversion, the author of Hebrews prayed God would sanctify His already sanctified readers. When was that sanctification completed?




Paul wrote something particularly curious in his letter to the Ephesians...

Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

A husband sanctifies his wife! When is that sanctification completed?

1. Are you aware the op contains a lengthy list of verse but only one of them specifically mentions sanctification?
2. Are you aware there are at least two dozen verses in the Bible that mention sanctification (scores more in the OT) and this op quotes only one of them?
3. When is the post-conversion sanctification of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 completed?
4. When is the sanctification of Ephesians 5:26 completed?

Thank you in advance for the answers to these specific questions. Succinct answers will be appreciated.

 

[Josheb]

Salvation and sanctification is now complete in Christ: Consecration then follows.

Salvation is complete.

How then are the following passages explained?

Romans 5:6-10
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Paul is writing to people who were already saved. How then can he also say they shall be saved, indicating their salvation is a future occurrence?

1 Corinthians 1:14-18
I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Here Paulis again writing to an already saved readership and states the already saved are being saved, thereby indicating salvation is a currently existing or an ongoing process.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Here again, Paul cites an example of someone who is explicitly stated to be building on the foundation of Christ. He just as explicitly states this person will be saved. That is future-oriented language. If he will be saved, that implies he is not already saved, or at least that his salvation is not complete, yet we both agree the man has been saved (especially if he is building on the foundation of Christ).

Although there are several other examples that could be cited I'll post just one more.


1 Corinthians 5:4-5
In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This particular individual is a saint, but he's been egregiously disobedient, so much so that Paul has decided to hand the man over to Satan and the reason Paul states for doing so is so that the man will be saved! The man is handed over to the adversary for his future salvation! If he is a saint then he is already saved. If he is already saved, then why hand him over for the express purpose of saving his spirit?


What's your take on these four passages, @Ghada?






You might want to lurk @prism
.

 

[Josheb]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit...............

I missed this on first reading, but are you also aware this op does not contain a single verse mention salvation or consecration? I'd plug that in the list of questions asked in Post 2 but the time period allotted for editing has expired.

Can you also define the term "consecration" as you mean us to understand and discuss it in this thread? Normally the word means "to make sacred," but I don't read any mention of that in the op (and I think a fair number of us would say we've all already been made sacred (i.e., been consecrated) by the blood of Christ.


This is a worthy subject to study, btw.

 

[Ghada]

Are you aware that only one of those verses specifically mentions sanctification? Are you aware there are at least two dozen verses in the Bible that mention sanctification (scores more in the OT) and this op quotes only one of them?

And there is only one word of truth of God in all His Scriptures. If it is so in any verse, it must also be so in all pertaining verses.

Ex: No one needs any more proof that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, than the Word was God and was made flesh. All Scripture of the Godhead must be read with that proven truth of Scripture in John 1.

And, since no one is disputing sanctification and circumcision is the same work of the Spirit of Christ, then the quickness of both must be the same.

However, the sameness of sanctification and circumcision, is not all that Scripture proves: So is the sanctification and justification of Christ.

1 Cor
{6:11} but ye are being washed, but ye are being sanctified, but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Washed, sanctified, and justified cannot be separated from one another, without breaking the Scripture apart. Which is what the progressive sanctifiers argue, that their justification is intant and now, while there sanctification is only a 'work in progress'.

Another point, is that of possible translations: An ongoing process of sinning less and less would translate: ...but ye are being washed, but ye are being sanctified,

This is not a problem. However, now they must also argue an ongoing process of being justified, but not yet entirely.

In addition, there is no alternative translation for, And such were some of you: So, that we read, And such are some of you, is a false translation. And it would only be done to purposely preach the sinners' progressive sanctification: And such are some of you, like all men, but you are being sanctified to sin less, unlike all men.

Another point of the Scripture, is that justification and sanctification are also the same in completeness, both inwardly and outwardly:

1 Thess
{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no sanctification and justification of Christ Jesus in the spirit only, but not in life. If anyone is not entirely complete in one part, then neither is he in the others.

And do not them preaching progressive sanctification, also plainly declare their own sanctificatioin is never enitrely completed in this life? And also that their justification is inward only, and not outward in works?

And so, we see it's not only the matter of instance, but also of entirety, being made complete by the quick and sure circumcision of the Spirit of Christ inwardly and othwardly, and at the same time.

Which of course is only operated with them that do repent God's commanded way from all sins and trespasses.

Because the only ones recieving the gift of that saving, justifying, sancitifying, and circumsizing faith of God and Spirit of Christ, are them that repent of their sins for Jesus' sake, in order to believe from the heart that we can sin not, and do His righteousness at all times.

Heb
{6:1} Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Can you tell me when the following were completed?

Do you preach differently than others? Do you preach your own snactification is progressive, and yet is also wholly completed in this life, both spiritually and bodily?

 

[Ghada]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no proof here of instant not gradual sanctification; however entirely complete in this life, and bodily is proven. And in 1 Cor 6, it is proven that such were doing unrighteous works, not are.

The reading is that God's sanctification once complete, remains complete by obeying His faith.

Romans
{1:5} By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: {1:6} Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Heb
{13:8} Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Which includes them now complete in Christ Jesus.

Collosians
{2:9} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. {2:10} And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: {2:11} In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: {2:12} Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

There is no completeness in Christ, that is not completely sanctified from dead works.

And we also see that we can add baptism of the Spirit, to His salvation and circumcision and sanctification and justification from dead works.

Christ's work is not the gradual incomplete circumcison and water baptism made with sinful hands, that are never completely repented from all sins and trespasses.

God commands complete repentance now for Jesus' sake, not an ongoing incomplete version of man's own will, power, and faith alone.

Jerem
{3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

 

[Ghada]

AFTER Pentecost,

Before Pentecost and outpouring of the Spirit upon all flesh. The disciples believing Him to be both Lord and God by His resurrection from the dead, were sanctifified and justified by His Spirit while walking with them in His resurrected flesh and bones

John
{20:21} Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. {20:22} And when he had said this, he breathed on [them,] and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and AFTER conversion,

Not with Jesus' Christ's sanctification and justification. His conversion is only with His complete sanctification and justification, which is only with them that are repented from all their transgressions.

His is only with His conversion of them that repent of their sinning for His sake.

Acts
{3:19} Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Matthew
{1:14} Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, {1:15} And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb
{6:1} Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

We must repent of dead works to believe God's gospel, because His good news is enitrely complete deliverance from all sinning in this life, not just sinning less in man's own sinful version.

Ezek
{18:27} Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. {18:28} Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

the author of Hebrews prayed God would sanctify His already sanctified readers. When was that sanctification completed?

When their repentance was complete with a whole heart.

Once again, are you saying your own sanctification from sins and trespasses is gradual, but is now, or will be complete in this life.

Do you believe you too can sin not, and walk pleasing to the Father as Jesus walked on earth?

 

[Ghada]

Paul wrote something particularly curious in his letter to the Ephesians...

Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

A husband sanctifies his wife!

No man's faith toward God saves the soul of another from sinning, nor can pray for the dead from 'purgatory'.

The sanctified household saves the outward living of them in the house from ungodly works.

When is that sanctification completed?

But only so long as remaining in the godly household, and not depating to riot with the rest of the world.

Luke
And the younger of them said to [his] father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth [to me.] And he divided unto them [his] living. {15:13} And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

Thank you in advance for the answers to these specific questions. Succinct answers will be appreciated.

Thank you. Honest questions deserve honest answers.

Do you believe your own sanctification from sins and trespasses, can be enitrely complete in in this life?

 

[Josheb]

No man's faith toward God saves the soul of another from sinning, nor can pray for the dead from 'purgatory'.

The sanctified household saves the outward living of them in the house from ungodly works.




But only so long as remaining in the godly household, and not depating to riot with the rest of the world.

Luke
And the younger of them said to [his] father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth [to me.] And he divided unto them [his] living. {15:13} And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

None of which has anything to do with what I posted.

Thank you. Honest questions deserve honest answers.

I agree. Unblessedly, I do not read honest (and correct) answers.

Do you believe your own sanctification from sins and trespasses, can be enitrely complete in in this life?

No, and many times in many threads have I said as much. When it comes to eternal disposition, we are as clean as we will ever be, but temporally speaking, we'll all die with imperfection still evident womewhere.

 

[Josheb]

Before Pentecost and outpouring of the Spirit upon all flesh. The disciples believing Him to be both Lord and God by His resurrection from the dead, were sanctifified and justified by His Spirit while walking with them in His resurrected flesh and bones

John
{20:21} Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. {20:22} And when he had said this, he breathed on [them,] and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Not with Jesus' Christ's sanctification and justification. His conversion is only with His complete sanctification and justification, which is only with them that are repented from all their transgressions.

His is only with His conversion of them that repent of their sinning for His sake.

Acts
{3:19} Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Matthew
{1:14} Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, {1:15} And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb
{6:1} Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

We must repent of dead works to believe God's gospel, because His good news is enitrely complete deliverance from all sinning in this life, not just sinning less in man's own sinful version.

Ezek
{18:27} Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. {18:28} Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


When their repentance was complete with a whole heart.

Once again, are you saying your own sanctification from sins and trespasses is gradual, but is now, or will be complete in this life.

Let me recommend you do two things to improve both your thinking and your position, and my replies: First, separate sanctification from justification and leave justification out of the conversation. Second, use scripture that actually mentions sanctification because it looks like Bible verse are haphazardly being copied and pasted and you're making things up as you go! There are scores of verses in the Bible that explicitly speak about sanctification and you've used only two.

Do you believe you too can sin not, and walk pleasing to the Father as Jesus walked on earth?

I believe sinfulness is not limited to behavior. I, therefore, also believe that question is profoundly stupid and evidence of a serious lack of knowledge and understanding when it comes to sin, sanctification, and our ability to "walk pleasing to the Father..." I have twice now observed the lack of scripture overtly speaking about sanctification (and I have made the same observation in a few of your other ops) and nothing has been done to correct that problem. In case its significance hasn't yet been grasped, what it means is that you've got no grounds to tell anyone anything about sanctification and walking with God while you continue to misuse scripture. Take the log out of your own eye before presuming to improve anyone else's vision.

Pick three verses from the New Testament epistolary and comment cohesively on them. Demonstrate an ability to wield scripture well first. Do it now, please.

 

[Ghada]

Salvation is complete.

Only if justification is complete, which is only if sanctification is complete.

1 Cor
{6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sanctified and justified bodily in works, as well as in soul and spirit by faith.

Paul is writing to people who were already saved. How then can he also say they shall be saved, indicating their salvation is a future occurrence?

Because God's salvation and sanctification are at once whole and complete, with repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

It's remains the same with obedience toward God.

It's becomes eternally finished by resurrection from the dead unto life, which is the reward of inherintance in obedience to Christ untot he end:

1 Thess
{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

2 Peter
{2:12} But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; {2:13} And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime.

The unrighteous disobeying the Lord at the end, are rewarded with resurrection of the dead unto everlasting shame and contempt.

Heb
{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Since the Son needed to learn obedience, then certainly also the sons begotten again by His resurrection, must also be obedient in like manner to be saved at the end.

Here Paulis again writing to an already saved readership and states the already saved are being saved, thereby indicating salvation is a currently existing or an ongoing process.

Agreed. God's sanctification and justification are complete with repentance for Jesus' sake, and is continued with obedience to the Lord.

But like circumcison so with sanctification and justification: What was, is not, because what was complete in repetance, is made incomplete by disobedience.

Romans
{2:25} For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. {2:26} Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

2 Cor
{7:10} For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance from dead works is turning from ungodliness unto the Lord. In like manner, turning from godliness away from the Lord is repantance from good works.

The godly repentance unto the Lord's salvation, must not be repented of by disobedience.

And any incomplete gradual sanctification of ongoing sinners, is not by the faith of Jesus at all, but only by the faith of sinful man alone.

And so, as the repentance unto sanctification goes, so is the salvation and justification, whether being incomplete in sinful relgion, or now complete in the pure religion of Jesus Christ.

James
{1:27} Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 John
{5:18} We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not

The salvation, justification, sanctification, baptism, and circumcision of the Spirit of Christ, is made complete with repentance from all sinning for His name's sake, and remains so by obedience to His faith. And the obedient sons must by Jesus' righteous faith, keep our unspotted sanctification in Christ remaining untouched by the wicked one.

Here again, Paul cites an example of someone who is explicitly stated to be building on the foundation of Christ. He just as explicitly states this person will be saved.

True again, if we continue faithful and obedient to Him unto the end of this life.

John
{8:31} Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; {8:32} And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Collosians
{1:21} And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled {1:22} In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: {1:23} If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,

Romans
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: {2:7} To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: {2:8} But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

We can also ensure our sanctification and justification remains complete and unspotted from the world, by adding those things to our faith, that are necessary to do, so as not fall by transgression, as Adam did:

1 Peter
{1:4} Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. {1:5} And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; {1:6} And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; {1:7} And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. {1:8} For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. {1:9} But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. {1:10} Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Nor to fall by the same example of them destroyed in the wilderness.

Heb
{3:17} But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? {3:18} And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? {3:19} So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

{4:11} Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

And how did they fall? By transgression. And why is it judged unbelief? Because of disobedience. And so as with circumcision made uncircumcision, so belief is made unbelief toward God by disobedience to God.

We do the good works of Christ unto the end, so as not to fall by disobedience, but rather to be rewarded in the resurrection of the dead, with the everlasting inheritiance of the saints in light.

Rev
{12:11} And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

{20:4} and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands...

 

[Ghada]

1 Corinthians 5:4-5
In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This particular individual is a saint, but he's been egregiously disobedient, so much so that Paul has decided to hand the man over to Satan and the reason Paul states for doing so is so that the man will be saved!

So that the church body would be free from the open rebellion of the hypocrites.

1 Cor
{5:11} But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat

God doesn't bring someone to repentance and save them from sinning, by having them removed from the company of saints.

Unless, of course, He leads them out of the assembly of self-justifying sinners, to one of His own righteous churches.

Psalms
{1:5} Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. {1:6} For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

The righteous body of Christ are not commanded to house the wilfully unrighteous, nor are the righteous commanded to be housed with the unrighteous:

1 Cor
{15:33} Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. {15:34} Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.

It's shameful to allow open ungodliness to go unchecked in God's own house, as well as corrosive to remain in attendance with the house of hypocrites.

 

[Ghada]

I missed this on first reading, but are you also aware this op does not contain a single verse mention salvation

Only if you want to separate salvation from justification. As well as justification from sanctification.

or consecration?

The verse of addicting ourselves to the ministry of Christ should be sufficient of conmsecration following salvation, justification, and sanctification.

We can also see how Paul did not go on to immediately consecrate himself to the Lord's personal calling to the Gentiles. He first went into Arabia to prepare for his apostleship by searching the Scriptures, to see where he and other leaders got it so wrong,so as to have their own Lord crucified.

Galatians
{1:15} But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called [me] by his grace, {1:16} To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: {1:17} Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Can you also define the term "consecration" as you mean us to understand and discuss it in this thread? Normally the word means "to make sacred," but I don't read any mention of that in the op (and I think a fair number of us would say we've all already been made sacred (i.e., been consecrated) by the blood of Christ.


This is a worthy subject to study, btw.

True. At this point we can amend gradual consecration, as being unto the ministry of Christ, following sanctification and obedience by the blood of Christ.

1 Peter
{1:2} Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

The point is that godly repentance and sanctification of God, is not a following gradual and incomplete 'consecration' to God.

The only consecration following whole sanctification and justification of Christ, is addicting ourselves to His ministry by His personal call.

 

[Ghada]

I agree. Unblessedly, I do not read honest (and correct) answers.

Honesty doesn't have to be agreed with. I determined your questions were sincere, and so I answered them sincerely.

It's not conditioned on you agreeing with my answers.

No, and many times in many threads have I said as much. When it comes to eternal disposition, we are as clean as we will ever be, but temporally speaking, we'll all die with imperfection still evident womewhere.

You have your continued sinning by your own faith alone, and I don't have mine by Jesus' faith.

Just don't dishonestly include me in your doctrine and life. The only 'we' here is you and others like you.

 

[Ghada]

Let me recommend you do two things to improve both your thinking and your position, and my replies: First, separate sanctification from justification and leave justification out of the conversation.

I.e. you must agree with the point, and so want to avoid it, rather than be corrected by it.

In 1 Cor 6, it's not possible to speak of sanctifcation apart from justification. Even as in 1 Thess 5 it's not possible to preach gradual incomplete sanctification from Christ.

You want to separate your justification from your separation, do so. I don't, because God doesn't separate His own sanctification from His justification.

I believe sinfulness is not limited to behavior.

True, not outward behavior only, but also inward behavior:

Matthew
{5:28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

{23:26} [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also

The sanctification and righteousness of God includes inward purity, and not outward works only. And there is no spiritual purity of Christ, with outward works of the devil.

Take the log out of your own eye before presuming to improve anyone else's vision.

If your aproach to debate is to be offended by not being agreed with, then don't debate with people disagreeing with you.

Only address people agreeing with you.

Pick three verses from the New Testament epistolary and comment cohesively on them. Demonstrate an ability to wield scripture well first. Do it now, please.

Not sure about the shcolar speak, but I do understand the part about picking 3 verses. I've already quoted 9 verses in the first post. If those don't convince you, then why bother with 3 more?

Otherwise, I've enjoyed your challenges so far. Even if they offend you by not being what you already wanted to hear.

If you take any verse and point I make from it, and actually try to show any error of reasoning, rather than just disagree, then I'd be more than glad to see it.

Afterall, good correction leads to perfect the teaching. Just disagreeing is a right, but not profitable to any honest dispute.

 

[Josheb]

So that the church body would be free from the open rebellion of the hypocrites.

That does not change the fact a believer, a regenerate believer is imperfect (sinful)

It's shameful to allow open ungodliness to go unchecked in God's own house, as well as corrosive to remain in attendance with the house of hypocrites.

Do you attend congregational worship and fellowship on a regular basis?

 

[Josheb]

Only if you want to separate salvation from justification. As well as justification from sanctification.

The subject of this op - the subject specified in this op - is salvation and sanctification, not justification. It is inaccurate to conflate salvation and sanctification as identical or synonymous. To insert justification has the result of moving the goal posts, obscuring the topic, and it looks like either you don't know how to stay on topic in your own op, or the distinctions between these three is not adequately understood. This become glaringly apparent when scriptures actually speaking to any one of these topics are ignored in favor of personal opinion(s). These problems are worsened when other subjects are added, such as....

The verse of addicting ourselves to the ministry of Christ should be sufficient of conmsecration following salvation, justification, and sanctification.

Consecration is not sanctification.


Are we discussing sanctification, or not? If so then at least quote some NEW TESTAMENT scripture from the epistolary!

1 Peter
{1:2} Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Now we're getting somewhere, except for the fact you are adding to God's word things not stated!

The point is that godly repentance and sanctification of God, is not a following gradual and incomplete 'consecration' to God. The only consecration following whole sanctification and justification of Christ, is addicting ourselves to His ministry by His personal call.

1 Peter 1:2 states nothing of the sort.

All that verse states is the election is according to the sanctification of the Spirit, and the election is unto obedience and sprinkling of Christ's blood. Nothing more. It's good that you chose this verse because it is a post-Calvary and post-Pentecost verse that speaks about conditions following those events and following one's conversion from a New Testament post-Calvary and post-Pentecost aftermath. It's not about conditions of the Law, nor conditions existing in the OT. This verse is also a good choice for two other reasons: 1) Peter wrote some other stuff about this very matter and 2) Peter's own post-conversion life was imperfect, and he did not get kicked out of the Church. Peter's particular type of imperfection (sin) appears to have persisted his entire life, as evidenced by the fact scripture often details his problem and there's no report of it ever being fixed. Peter was saved, sanctified, justified, consecrated, and elected but still imperfect.

 

[Josheb]

Honesty doesn't have to be agreed with.

Yep. I whole-heartedly agree.

I determined your questions were sincere, and so I answered them sincerely.

The facts in evidence do not witness that because the specific questions asked were not answered.

It's not conditioned on you agreeing with my answers.

Great! I can discuss our differences wherever they occur as long as the observations made, and questions asked are actually answered and not dodged.

You have not used what scripture itself states about sanctification! I've brough this op thrice now and there's not a single word acknowledging that fact. I asked four questions in Post 2 and none of them have been answered. I asked for a definition of consecrated and the question was ignored. I asked when the three verses in Post 3 were completed, and the "answer" was a non-answering set of questions = a question was answered with questions. My questions were NOT answered, nor were they answered sincerely.

You have your continued sinning by your own faith alone, and I don't have mine by Jesus' faith. Just don't dishonestly include me in your doctrine and life. The only 'we' here is you and others like you.

You're doing a very good job of sinning on your own. It is a sin to NOT do the right thing when the opportunity to do so avails itself.


Now, if you're amenable, go back to the beginning and respond to my observations in an op-relevant and scriptural manner, and answer the questions asked as directly, immediately and succinctly as you can.

 

[Josheb]

In 1 Cor 6, it's not possible to speak of sanctifcation apart from justification.

Sure it is. Just because one verse in the whole chapter states, "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God," does not mean the two cannot be separated. But the salient point is you are dodging the point. The point made was this op is about how consecration follows sanctification (which is supposedly complete).

You haven't even defined your terms.

The word for "sanctify" in the NT is "hagiazo." It means to separate, but to separate and purify. The word "holy" ("hagio") means separate, too, but more specifically it is to separate specifically for sacred purpose. Sanctify and holy are not interchangeable words. Sanctify is to separate and make holy..... having purified that which is being separated. One early mention of "sanctify" in the NT occurs in John 17:17, where Jesus asks God to sanctify his disciples with the truth. John 10:36 says Jesus was sanctified by the Father when sent into the world. Neither of those examples is post-Calvary, post=Pentecost, post-conversion, post-salvation.

This is very important because the KJV (and the NIV) does not do a very good job of discriminating between hagiazo and hagio. A lot of verses pertaining specifically to sanctification would be missed if the KJV was used. Romans 6:19 would be one of them.



So, go back to the beginning of the thread and respond to my observations and answer the questions asked.

 

[Ghada]

That does not change the fact a believer, a regenerate believer is imperfect (sinful)

Nothing can change the fact that a sinful believer is still a degenerate sinner. Neither the sanctification nor the regeneration of unrepented sinners, is the sanctifcation and regenration of Jesus Christ. Gradually generating less sin in life, is not God's instant regeneration to sin not.

imperfect (sinful)

Imperfection is not sin; otherwise Jesus would have been the greatest sinner ever, since He was tempted in all points like all men.

Sin is a lust and work of the flesh against the law and righteousness of God.

Imperfection is being tempted to sin. Perfect obedience is being tempted like Jesus, yet without sinning. Like Christ's sanctification, complete obedience is only by complete repetnance from all dead works for Jesus' sake.

Unrepentant believers preach a perfection in this life, that God does not command, so that they can then justify their continued unrighteous sinfulness against God, as just a common 'imperfection' of all men.

That's also how they preach the gospel of unbelief, that it's not possible not to sin against God in this life.

The faith of degenerate sinners to sin more, is not the faith of Jesus Christ to sin no more.

That is why the incomplete sanctification of unrepented sinners, is not the complete sanctfication of Jesus Christ.