Rome's Double Justification

[Carbon]

Rome's doctrine of double justification is a false doctrine and not from scripture.

according to Rome, the first justification is the infusion of grace through baptism, which they teach operates infallibly, whereby original sin is extinguished and the habits of sin are done away with.

Now the second justification is a consequence of the first, namely justification by good works done in the exercise of the infused habit of grace.

Catholicism is truly a non-Christian system of salvation by works

 

[fastfredy0]

Catholicism is truly a non-Christian system of salvation by works

Agreed.

Can a person who relies on his works for his salvation be saved? Galatians 5:2-6 has me thinking possibly not.

True story:
So I had a heart attack last year. Turned out to be trivial as those things go. I was out today delivering parcel for UPS so I guess I'm not at death's door. Does cause one to contemplate the next life though. Anyways, Galatians 5:2-6 has me thinking that if one believes in works to be saved he is 'accursed'. Back to the heart attack .. one of my sons is in hospital during this episode. He's a good, God fearing man but I not sure about his theology when it comes to his thoughts on whether he or God is the cause of his faith; where believing one is the cause of ones faith would be a work. So I lay this idea out as it seems the prudent thing to do given my interpretation.
Anyways, got that off my chest. Turned out he's still going to have to wait a bit longer for his inheritance. He likes to quote some Proverbs 13:22 about good fathers leaving inheritances for there children. *giggle*

 

[prism]

Can a person who relies on his works for his salvation be saved?

I'd say not...

Galatians 1:8-9 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

 

[makesends]

Rome's doctrine of double justification is a false doctrine and not from scripture.

according to Rome, the first justification is the infusion of grace through baptism, which they teach operates infallibly, whereby original sin is extinguished and the habits of sin are done away with.

Now the second justification is a consequence of the first, namely justification by good works done in the exercise of the infused habit of grace.

Catholicism is truly a non-Christian system of salvation by works

I wonder what an RC does when he has been baptized and still has the habits. Is this something like 'faith-healers'?

There was a faith-healer from Deal
who said, "Although pain isn't real,
When I sit on a pin and it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel.

 

[makesends]

Agreed.

Can a person who relies on his works for his salvation be saved? Galatians 5:2-6 has me thinking possibly not.

True story:
So I had a heart attack last year. Turned out to be trivial as those things go. I was out today delivering parcel for UPS so I guess I'm not at death's door. Does cause one to contemplate the next life though. Anyways, Galatians 5:2-6 has me thinking that if one believes in works to be saved he is 'accursed'. Back to the heart attack .. one of my sons is in hospital during this episode. He's a good, God fearing man but I not sure about his theology when it comes to his thoughts on whether he or God is the cause of his faith; where believing one is the cause of ones faith would be a work. So I lay this idea out as it seems the prudent thing to do given my interpretation.
Anyways, got that off my chest. Turned out he's still going to have to wait a bit longer for his inheritance. He likes to quote some Proverbs 13:22 about good fathers leaving inheritances for there children. *giggle*

I'd say not...

Galatians 1:8-9 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

But how would we know if we rely on our works or not? We all return to that vomit from time to time in any way that 'the old man' can work it in.

I'd say those who think to rely on what WE call works, can still be saved, just as we can. They may not realize the truth of what they believe, in a way that they can put into concepts, but I'm fully sure that if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth. The test may be more along the lines of, "My sheep know my voice", than to get their soteriology quite right. I have little doubt that those I grew up with who think that their 'salvation decision' is the hinge upon which their eternity turns, simply don't know what they are talking about, rather than that they actually trust that notion.

 

[fastfredy0]

Galatians 1:8-9 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

I'm not 100% sure. Technically, we all preach something that varies from Paul.

interesting take on the subject by RC Sproul

 

[LeviR]

Rome's doctrine of double justification is a false doctrine and not from scripture.

according to Rome, the first justification is the infusion of grace through baptism, which they teach operates infallibly, whereby original sin is extinguished and the habits of sin are done away with.

Now the second justification is a consequence of the first, namely justification by good works done in the exercise of the infused habit of grace.

Catholicism is truly a non-Christian system of salvation by works

Don’t forget, you need to be a cannibal every Sunday by eating the literal body and blood of Christ or else you have no life in you.

 

[prism]

But how would we know if we rely on our works or not? We all return to that vomit from time to time in any way that 'the old man' can work it in.

I'd say those who think to rely on what WE call works, can still be saved, just as we can. They may not realize the truth of what they believe, in a way that they can put into concepts, but I'm fully sure that if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth. The test may be more along the lines of, "My sheep know my voice", than to get their soteriology quite right. I have little doubt that those I grew up with who think that their 'salvation decision' is the hinge upon which their eternity turns, simply don't know what they are talking about, rather than that they actually trust that notion.

The passage says 'preach' ( also read teach) another Gospel. The Judaizers in Galatia were adding works via circumcision which was a 'rite of passage' to keeping all the law of Moses.To the degree one relies on their own works would be in reverse proportion to their reliance on the perfect obedience of Christ for their justification. It has little to do with a 'salvation decision'.

 

[makesends]

The passage says 'preach' ( also read teach) another Gospel. The Judaizers in Galatia were adding works via circumcision which was a 'rite of passage' to keeping all the law of Moses.To the degree one relies on their own works would be in reverse proportion to their reliance on the perfect obedience of Christ for their justification. It has little to do with a 'salvation decision'.

Good point about the passage saying 'preach'. I hadn't been thinking about that, so much as about the basis of one's faith.

Also, I agree completely it has nothing to do with any 'salvation decision' of theirs.

 

[prism]

I'm not 100% sure. Technically, we all preach something that varies from Paul.

interesting take on the subject by RC Sproul

"Sign in to confirm you're not a bot".
I guess I'm a 'bot'. lol

Yes, we all preach something that varies from Paul, but with the vital subject matter covered in Galatians, it is a subject matter we want to be in sync with Paul...Hence the dire warning.

 

[fastfredy0]

I'd say those who think to rely on what WE call works, can still be saved, just as we can. They may not realize the truth of what they believe, in a way that they can put into concepts, but I'm fully sure that if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth.

Well, "if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth" is true but perhaps one believing that one self-determined one's faith which is to say they don't believe their faith is caused by God ... perhaps that is proof God has not given them salvific faith.

The test may be more along the lines of, "My sheep know my voice", than to get their soteriology quite right.

This is too abstract a test to determine if one is saved or not.

I have little doubt that those I grew up with who think that their 'salvation decision' is the hinge upon which their eternity turns, simply don't know what they are talking about, rather than that they actually trust that notion.

You may be right. I like to think you're right. Galatians causes me to hesitate and Sproul seemed hesitant on the subject too.
One of the three foundations of saving faith is TRUST. I TRUST in God to do everything necessary to save me, others TRUST in themselves to a degree to be saved. At a minimum that is a NO-NO ... I am not sure of the maximum penalty.

 

[makesends]

Well, "if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth" is true but perhaps one believing that one self-determined one's faith which is to say they don't believe their faith is caused by God ... perhaps that is proof God has not given them salvific faith.

This is too abstract a test to determine if one is saved or not.

You may be right. I like to think you're right. Galatians causes me to hesitate and Sproul seemed hesitant on the subject too.
One of the three foundations of saving faith is TRUST. I TRUST in God to do everything necessary to save me, others TRUST in themselves to a degree to be saved. At a minimum that is a NO-NO ... I am not sure of the maximum penalty.

What I mean is that, though what they say logically reduces to trusting themselves, they don't, but only think that they do! ...Or something, lol.

But as it was pointed out to me, the preaching of 'another gospel' is the real question we should deal with.

I am pretty sure that one who thinks synergism is the truth, may well be monergistically saved. But if they preach synergism —well, I'll leave it there. In truth, we don't any of us quite have it right, and are left thrown onto the mercy of God, too. And not all synergists are alike.

 

[Mr GLee]

Well, "if God puts the faith into us, we believe the truth" is true but perhaps one believing that one self-determined one's faith which is to say they don't believe their faith is caused by God ... perhaps that is proof God has not given them salvific faith.

God Faithfully put his Faith as a work in dying mankind giving them ears to hear His understanding. By his understanding faith we are saved . are saved

Faith is a work .