Roman Centurion vs the Canaanite women

[Josheb]

It has to do with why Romans would be treated favorably instead of spit upon like the zealots did.

No, it is not. The op makes not mention of zealots.

I'm now not even sure you know your OP.

Not my op.

You painted the whole 1st cent. as Nero's treatment.

Never happened.

There were actually many kinds of positions toward the Christians.

And that is relevant to the differences between how Jesus treated the Centurion versus the Canaanite.... how?

Since there were more Jews and more zealots than Christians for a while, Rome treated them harshly, and perhaps you conflated those two.

And which Jews, Zealots, and Christians are mentioned in the interactions between Jesus and the Centurion and Jesus and the Canaanite woman? Where is Rome mentioned?

Your OP

Not my op.

...was your surprise that Romans would be treated favorably but the Canaanite woman was treated harshly (supposedly).

Never happened.

I don't have an answer yet about why you see her as demanding credit for herself.

Then first go read the text of Matthew 15:21-28. Then re-read the op, and then (re-)read Post 2. Then ask me something relevant to all three. I will gladly explain my post if it still is not understood.

She did rank herself as a dog.

No, Jesus is the one who compared her to a dog. She made no such statement about herself. She bowed before him and said, "Lord, help me!" and his reply was, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." Her response was, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."

Even ignorant Masters graduates can learn something new.

But Josh, I'm not ignorant.

She's not a dog, either. She was simply responding to HIS analogy, and she was doing so in defiance of that comparison as justification for his not healing her daughter. She did not rank herself as a dog.

She asked the way others did. 'Have mercy on me.'

Go back and re-read the Matthew text. Her behavior is marked different than multiple accounts. Her behavior is markedly different than the leper's, the Centurion's, Peter's mother-in-law, the temple official's, the hemorrhaging woman, and others who received healing for themselves or another. The Matthew 15 Canaanite is comparable to the persistent widow.

I may be mistaken, or you may have another account in mind, but she did not secretly 'steal' power from him.

You are mistaken. I suspect another's post(s) has been confused with mine. The op is not my op. I never said she stole power from him (I don't read anyone else saying that, either). What I did say is she tried to get healing through her own effort by approaching Jesus in her own might whether he wanted to be approached or not.

Matthew 15:22-23
And a Canaanite woman from the region came out and began to cry out, saying "Have mercy on me..." And his disciples came and implored him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us."

Which others kept shouting at Jesus and his disciples? No doubt there were some, but hers is the first example given on a day when he was trying to withdraw not finding respite in Sidon, Tyre, the Sea of Galilee or in the mountains. Not a single one of the thousands mentioned in the chapter are reported to have shouted at the disciples to the point they wanted them to leave.

 

[EarlyActs]

Sorry you can't just put one topic per post.

The zealots were an exact example of what was NOT being modeled for Christians to behave.

Since you can't see things as simple as that I'll have to stop.

 

[EarlyActs]

Josheb:
your example of what Rome was like was Nero. There were actually many different postures, and Nero's years were short.

If you are saying Nero never happened, then you're even further off than I thought.

 

[EarlyActs]

No, it is not. The op makes not mention of zealots.

Not my op.

Never happened.

And that is relevant to the differences between how Jesus treated the Centurion versus the Canaanite.... how?

And which Jews, Zealots, and Christians are mentioned in the interactions between Jesus and the Centurion and Jesus and the Canaanite woman? Where is Rome mentioned?

Not my op.

Never happened.

Then first go read the text of Matthew 15:21-28. Then re-read the op, and then (re-)read Post 2. Then ask me something relevant to all three. I will gladly explain my post if it still is not understood.

No, Jesus is the one who compared her to a dog. She made no such statement about herself. She bowed before him and said, "Lord, help me!" and his reply was, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." Her response was, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."

Even ignorant Masters graduates can learn something new.

But Josh, I'm not ignorant.

She's not a dog, either. She was simply responding to HIS analogy, and she was doing so in defiance of that comparison as justification for his not healing her daughter. She did not rank herself as a dog.

Go back and re-read the Matthew text. Her behavior is marked different than multiple accounts. Her behavior is markedly different than the leper's, the Centurion's, Peter's mother-in-law, the temple official's, the hemorrhaging woman, and others who received healing for themselves or another. The Matthew 15 Canaanite is comparable to the persistent widow.

You are mistaken. I suspect another's post(s) has been confused with mine. The op is not my op. I never said she stole power from him (I don't read anyone else saying that, either). What I did say is she tried to get healing through her own effort by approaching Jesus in her own might whether he wanted to be approached or not.

Matthew 15:22-23
And a Canaanite woman from the region came out and began to cry out, saying "Have mercy on me..." And his disciples came and implored him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us."

Which others kept shouting at Jesus and his disciples? No doubt there were some, but hers is the first example given on a day when he was trying to withdraw not finding respite in Sidon, Tyre, the Sea of Galilee or in the mountains. Not a single one of the thousands mentioned in the chapter are reported to have shouted at the disciples to the point they wanted them to leave.

Your last is a complete puzzle. To cry out (used of John the B) is not "shout out" in an irritating way. "Have mercry on me." And notice the parable of Jesus about the woman with the issue against a judge and he finally succumbed. She was complimented!

Goodbye. All the best.

 

[Josheb]

Your last is a complete puzzle. To cry out (used of John the B) is not "shout out" in an irritating way.

Never said otherwise. What is a puzzle is how my posts are so frequently misread.

"Have mercry on me."

Not in dispute.

And notice the parable of Jesus about the woman with the issue against a judge and he finally succumbed. She was complimented!

And the Canaanite was healed.

Goodbye. All the best.

Bye

 

[Lee]

The Centurion pressed the right buttons going in, but Jesus decided to "Test" the Canaanite woman to establish where she was spiritually.

Greetings,

Ok that makes sense.

Blessings.

 

[Lee]

Since scripture is silent on the "why," any answer offered will be speculative. However, I will suggest the answer lies in the fact the history of Canaanites and Israeli relationships informs the answer. The Canaanites were not supposed to exist. God had commanded the Hebrews to kill everyone in the promised land the Hebrews did not do so. As a result, the Canaanites were an enduring corruption in the land. Prior to the exodus God had given the land of Canaan to Abraham. Before that we learn Canaan was the son of Ham, the man who sodomized his father, Noah, after God had washed the planet clean and as a result Noah cursed Canaan. That woman brought a lot of history with her.

The Romans were just as thoroughly pagan and idolatrous, but 1) they were not the concern of God's plan for God's people other than 2) as an agent of God for the judgment and disciple of the Israel. There was certainly resentment among the Jews for the occupying force but from Jesus' perspective they'd been sent there by God because of the disobedience of the Jewish people.

I will also suggest the Centurion's response of knowing he can do nothing and the authority and power are all Jesus' stands in contrast to the Canaanite's effort to get healing through her own effort, approaching Jesus in her own might whether he wanted to be approached or not.

Greetings,

I like your response.

Blessings.

 

[Lee]

Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]”

If you're looking for some aspect of a person that operates independently of God (deism) as the reason for an answer to your question your are looking in the wrong place. At most reasons like "the Roman Centurion treated the Israelite's well" is a secondary cause; God being the first cause. God does what He pleases for His pleasure and glory. God and His actions are not ever an EFFECT; His actions are always a First Cause. (See Law of Causality)

Greetings,

Only peoples thoughts on the subject no hidden agenda.

Blessings.

 

[jeremiah1five]

In the book of Mathew 8: 5-13 Why did Jesus decide to help the Roman Centurion, but in Mathew !5: 23-25 he did not want to help the Canaanite Women set her daughter free any thoughts.

The woman was Gentile and Jesus did not come to the Gentiles. His Ministry was to and for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus didn't know everything. She was Gentile and on the face of it not the people He came to serve so initially He rejected her. But Jesus knowing a person's "heart" by what comes out of their mouths (we can do the same thing) is when He responded to her plea.

First, as Gentile she understood HER PLACE (to the Jew first and also to the Greek.)
Second, she understood Jesus' ministry WAS to the "children" [of Israel] and she said so.
Third, in asking for crumbs that fall from their "masters" table she was evidencing faith and trust which Jesus responded to.
What did she place her faith and trust in?
It would have to be the OT Scripture.

"Crumbs from their masters table" can be understood two ways.
The first is the word "masters" which is the Greek word " kyrios" which is the main word in the NT translated as "Lord."
The second way is that if she understood the OT Scriptures and the prophecies of Israel's Messiah in its pages and the signs in Scripture identifying Him as Messiah, she went to the right Person. Another thing is Jesus' referencing the children's [of Israel's] "bread" which again means Messiah as the Bread of Life. Her request for "crumbs," were either from Jesus as a 'side' miracle to His main ministry to Israel, or that in knowing the Scripture that prophesied that God would one day future call Gentiles to Himself, all she wanted were some crumbs today against that day still future. ("You're going to bless Gentiles in the future anyway so give me a taste of that today" is pretty much her meaning.
Knowing the Scripture in any generation and acting upon them, especially in things you can't see is evidence of "great faith."