Redemption: The Big Picture

[CrowCross]

telling people to get educated is not on topic and fallen angels did not have offspring with human females.

With all due respect....that's what Gen six and the bible says.

. @Arial and I are still waiting for you to demonstrate with Scripture under the microscope of exegesis that Satan rules the world through by proxy. And I am still waiting you to provide the verse stating Satan wanted to rule the earth.

Does Satan run any countries as a president, king, emperor etc.? That answer is no. So, I have no reason to accept your belief.

Isaiah 14:12-15 ....12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.

The verse from Isaiah describes Satans desire to ascend and elevate himself above God....which speaks of a desire for rulership.

You act as if Satan is a non-player and can do nothing.

When one looks at the world it becomes rather obvious that Satan and his followers have planed to take control of the world and exercise their power and authority over humanity. Rev 13 clearly points to that...and when one looks at current events and technology that goal is well on the way of being reached.

1st John 1:19 tells us.....19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.......That sounds like ruling or a desire to rule.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus described how in heaven the angels do not marry

Yes, that's heaven...that's the unfallen angels. The fallen angels married on earth and produced offspring just like Gen 6 tells us as well as Enoch 6.

Jude 1:6 speaks of the consequences for the fallen angels who left their first estate, married the women and had offspring as told in Gen 6.

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

2nd Peter 2:4 brings more to the table....For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

1st Peter 3:19 provides even more details....in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison / who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.

Now, I also know you're gonna balk about the Book of Enoch...but do you know Jude quoted directly from it?
Enoch 11:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones....Jude 1:14 Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.....I wouldn't simply pooh pooh the book of Enoch.

The bible contains much support for the book of Enoch. I can provide you with 16 other instances of where the bible and the book of Enoch say the same thing or speak of the same topic. Problem is I'd have to type in in and I really don't feel like doing that.
But, as an example John 14:2 speaks of mansions and so does Enoch 39:4.

EDIT:...there's more than 16. You can go here and scroll down to Appendex A

So, when You say...

Got scripture for that?

I say yes.

No, you have misidentified the sons of God in Gen. 6. Genesis 4 states men began to follow God and these men began to marry and have sex with humans who were not following God, the daughters of men. Interfaith marriage was prohibited by God. He eventually codified it in the Law. This was the reasons the Samaritans were reviled (they'd intermarried with those of other religions). Intermarriage adulterates the faith because spouses have torn allegiances. That is what the opening of Gen 6 is about, NOT fallen angels copulating with humans.

Thats pure speculation.

How would men having offspring with women....produce nephelim?

 

[Josheb]

With all due respect....that's what Gen six and the bible says.

No, it's not. It does not say fallen angels had sex with human women.

Does Satan run any countries as a president, king, emperor etc.? That answer is no. So, I have no reason to accept your belief.

If you believe Satan is NOT running any countries as president, etc. then you share my belief.

Isaiah 14:12-15 ....12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.

The verse from Isaiah describes Satans desire to ascend and elevate himself above God....which speaks of a desire for rulership.

The passgae is worded in the past-tense, not the present or future-tense. It states he has been cast down and that he once laid low the nations, not that he currently lays low the nations or will in the future lay nations low. He said in the past he would ascend to the heavens, not he says in the present or says he will in the future will ascend. After he said those things, he was brought down.

The verse describes Satan's past hubris, his past claims of an intent to ascend. It says nothing of anything future after Isaiah. Re-read the verse, one word at a time, paying attention to the details of what specifically is stated, not what some screwed up teacher who mucks up the passage says it says. Satan has been brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depth of the pit.

Jude 1:6-7
And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

The angels who did not keep their proper abode have been held in eternal bonds under darkness. They are not free to roam the earth or the heavens. There's no ascending for any of them. They are imprisoned for the day of judgment. When scripture described Satan roaming the earth looking for whom he might devour that is an idiomatic way of saying he is unclean. Can Satan devour the saved? No! Who then is Peter implicitly saying he devours? The only ones he can devour are the unsaved. In other words, he eats dead people. He eats those already dead in sin.

Leviticus 11:13-19
13‘These, moreover, you shall detest among the birds; they are abhorrent, not to be eaten: the eagle and the vulture and the buzzard, 14and the kite and the falcon in its kind, 15every raven in its kind, 16and the ostrich and the owl and the sea gull and the hawk in its kind, 17and the little owl and the cormorant and the great owl, 18and the white owl and the pelican and the carrion vulture, 19and the stork, the heron in its kinds, and the hoopoe, and the bat.

Leviticus 17:15
And every person who eats what died naturally or what was torn by beasts, whether he is a native of your own country or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes and bathe in water and be unclean until evening. Then he shall be clean.

Deuteronomy 14:11-19
11“You may eat any clean bird. 12“But these are the ones which you shall not eat: the eagle and the vulture and the buzzard, 13and the red kite, the falcon, and the kite in their kinds, 14and every raven in its kind, 15and the ostrich, the owl, the sea gull, and the hawk in their kinds, 16the little owl, the great owl, the white owl, 17the pelican, the carrion vulture, the cormorant, 18the stork, and the heron in their kinds, and the hoopoe and the bat. 19“And all the teeming life with wings are unclean to you; they shall not be eaten.

Many of these birds are predatory but they all eat carrion.

1 Peter 5:8
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

That is Satan's assignment. His Creator has assigned him that task. Satan is not happy about that. Instead of ascending to God's throne in usurpation, he's stuck here on earth eating sinners.

You act as if Satan is a non-player and can do nothing.

Satan can do nothing but what his Creator tells him he can do.

• Is Satan a sinner?
• Are the wages of sin death?
• Does sin cause one's thinking to be futile?
• Does sin darken one's heart?
• Does sin enslave?
• Has Satan been thrown down?
• Is Satan a liar?
• Has he been held in eternal bonds of darkness awaiting judgment?
• Does Satan flee when the saints resist him?
• Do those wearing God's armor extinguish all his flaming arrows?

Exactly what kind of enemy is it who flees when resisted and whose every machination is extinguished?

Does God, in fact, work all things for good in the lives of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose? YES! Therefore, If God does permit Satan to become involved in your life or mind we can rely upon God's promise. If God has permitted Satan's involvement in out lives we know it is for good according to God's purpose. What it is NOT is something that will serve Satan's purpose or something God will permit to work for evil.

I am not acting. I am standing firm on the facts of scripture and the promises of the ALMIGHTY GOD!!! You do understand what the word "almighty" means, yes? It absolutely, undeniably, inescapably means Satan is NOT mightier than God. You act like Satan has power he does not have.

When one looks at the world it becomes rather obvious that Satan and his followers have planed to take control of the world and exercise their power and authority over humanity. Rev 13 clearly points to that...and when one looks at current events and technology that goal is well on the way of being reached.

It's not obvious to me. I do not look at the world through eyes of flesh alone. I look at the world through scripture and measure everything that occurs here accordingly. You, because of your association with Dispensational Premillennialism look forward to the world going to hell in a handbasket any day now. You look forward to the Church becoming increasingly impotent and in need of rescue. You think the dominion mandate will be fulfilled only after the gates of hell prevail over the Church and Jesus' earthly reign fails in rebellion.

1st John 1:19 tells us.....19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.......That sounds like ruling or a desire to rule.

I think you mean 1 John 5:19, not 1:19. Yes, John did write something like that, but he did not write that.

Even if he had written those words they could only be read in the context of what Jesus said. Jesus stated, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Do you mean to pit John's words against Jesus'? If Jesus literally has ALL authority in heaven and earth, then Satan has none. You think that means Satan rules the world but that is not what the 1 John 1:19 verse actually states. Take a look at the Greek of 1 John 5:19. Now look at the English translations. Do you notice how the translations insert the words "control" or "power" when the Greek does NOT contain either word? Why did you not investigate and verify the claim before posting it? Could it be confirmation bias? John also reported Jesus stating, "The prince of this world NOW stands condemned." Do you mean to pit John's words against John's words and make him contradict himself? If not, then I exhort you to study ALL of God's word, and study it more thoroughly because you've got a sin-enslaved creature possessing power he does not have.

The New Testament repeatedly states and affirms Jesus as the ruler of ALL things. The government is upon his shoulders, not Satan's. Jesus is the creator of all things, all the thrones or powers or rulers or authorities were created through and for him. Satan is a created creature, not the Creator. Satan serves the Creator. The Creator does not serve the creature, especially not one is dead in sin and who lies all the time. Jesus possesses the name far above all names and he has been exalted far above all other rule, power, authority, and dominion. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father (see also Luke 22:69; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 12:2; and 1 Peter 3:2). Satan is held in eternal bonds of darkness. He has to ask permission before he can tempt a saint.

Jesus is God! Logic ought to tell you Satan is not literally the ruler of the world. If anyone ruled anything in creation apart from the sovereignty of almighty God that God would not be God. Scripture and logic are your friend .

Therefore, if you think Satan has power as a sin-enslaved dead minion of his Creator and that power can and does actually cause Jesus any problem whatsoever, then you've also got a bad Christology.

John 16:5-11
5But now I am going to Him who sent me; and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, grief has filled your heart. 7But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in me; 10and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see me; 11and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Do you understand the paradox of a "ruler" being judged? Who could ever possibly judge a ruler but a more powerful ruler?

1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Is John lying? Was Jesus' appearance a failure, or were the works of the devil destroyed?

 

[Josheb]

Yes, that's heaven...that's the unfallen angels.

Think that through. Angels in heaven do not marry but fallen angels, angels who been stripped of their place, their power, their glory, they can have sex with humans. You are pinning that interpretation on nothing. Scripture states angels don't marry and it never states they can have sex at all, much less with creatures of a completely different species. Humans cannot mate with apes. They cannot mate with horses or alligators or porpoises and none of those species can mate with the others, either. But you believe angels can mate with humans, that they, somehow can violate the way the world was made.

Genesis 1:2--25
20Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” 21God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

Angels are not human kind and humans are not angelic kind, not even fallen angelic kind. Your interpretation of Genesis 6:1 contradicts Genesis 1 and you, apparently think the contradiction can be defended.

The fallen angels married on earth and produced offspring just like Gen 6 tells us as well as Enoch 6.

Repeating the claim does not make it true and Enoch 6 is not scripture.

Jude 1:6 speaks of the consequences for the fallen angels who left their first estate, married the women and had offspring as told in Gen 6.

No, it does not. Jude 1 states those angels have been held in bonds of eternal darkness, not that they had sex with humans.

Thats pure speculation.

No, it is the result of sound exegesis. I have demonstrated the phrase "sons of God" applies to both humans and angels and not fallen angels. You are the one speculating the phrase can and does apply to the fallen angels. There is no verse to support that speculation.

How would men having offspring with women....produce nephelim?

I think you should take a look at the Hebrew and then compare it to the English translations, so you better understand what is specifically state and what exactly is stated and what is added to the verse through translation. The Nephilim were men. The Nephilim were not angelic/human halfbreeds.

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Not a single verse you've cited actually states what you say it says. You bought into some shmucks false teaching and if you examine scripture for what it actually states you will see how and why that teaching is false and ungodly..... literally ungodly.


Who are the Nephilim? Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4


There's tribe in Africa known as the Dinka in which men average 6' 7" in height. The average height of a male in the world currently is 5' 7.5". The average US male is 5' 9". The average height of a man in the 10th century BC is estimated to be 5' 3". That means the modern Dinka is nearly a foot-and-half taller than the average Noah-era male. It was not necessary for Olivier Rioux' or Manute Bol's mothers to have sex with angels to produce tall offspring.

 

[makesends]

I'm influenced by the first command God uttered, the "great commission," and the dominionists and postmils. Not like the Seven Mountainists or the Reconstructionists, though. Just a simple understanding God, from the beginning, wanted the earth subdued and ruled and that assignment was given to humans, not any other created creature. This begs the question, "Why give such a command if You are just going to destroy the whole thing when we do?" That doesn't make any sense. Whether we're talking about the physical planet, the worldly system of operation, or the matter of spiritual vitality versus desolation the directive from God is all always the same: Be overcomers.

I do not have to conquer the entire planet. Just the small portion He brings my way when I step out of bed each day. If He, in His infinite wisdom and grace happens to have me visit the White House or the Kremlin then I will do my best to the best of His inspiration and enabling. That has yet to happen. Right now I'm on my way to conquer part of Home Depot and the traffic in between home and there .

You know, because traffic....

​

.

That seems to assume that his command was for all the ages, from the beginning and for eternity. I don't see any reason to assume that.

 

[CrowCross]

@Josheb
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

Duet 3:11 (For only Og king of Bashan had remained of the remnant of the Rephaim. His bed of iron, nine cubits long and four cubits wide, is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)

Yes, there were Giants....

 

[Arial]

I'm thinking you need to educate yourself...Gen 6 is about the fallen angels...called watchers...who had offspring with the daughters of men and produced the Nephilim. part angels and part human.

Just a note: Declaring the meaning of a scripture based on one's opinion of its meaning is not exegesis. Especially in passages like Gen 6, which has had several interpretations over the centuries. one of them (the one you propose), being Jewish tradition, possibly a demythologizing of legends and myths that existed in the surrounding cultures (Babylon, Assyria, and Caanan). This is what Enoch did and Enoch, not a part of our Bible canon for good reason (that being that it is Enoch's word and not God's). And Enoch is your source uses to interpret God's word.

I am not going to present the other views with their strengths and weakness here because it is a long way off the OP topic. So far off that it should never have been brought up.

As I expressed. Satan has tried to take that dominion away from us via proxy.

Yes, you did express that. I don't know why you are doing so again. It would be much more conversational to "prove" that rather than just to say it. How about we do that?

If you turn your attention back to the OP, you will notice that I illustrate my position by first assuming the Bible, as a book that is the word of God (a book, not just a series of stories unrelated to each other, each containing their own unique message and doctrine and theology)and in compliance with that, giving through scriptures the beginning, the middle, and the end of that story. That was done so that we can see the continuity and learn where God was heading with all the events that followed. This lets us see what the big picture is and put everything, all our interrelations of scriptures consistent with God's stated goal. And it isn't to give man back his dominion over the earth. In those passages from Is and Rev I gave showing the end result, there is nothing said about man being given or having dominion over the earth. Nothing. It is to destroy evil and the evil one, unite heaven and earth and populate that earth with a people Christ rescues from the kingdom of darkness, who are not mortal but immortal, who are not able to be corrupted, but are incorruptible. And dwell among us.

 

[Josheb]

@Josheb
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

Duet 3:11 (For only Og king of Bashan had remained of the remnant of the Rephaim. His bed of iron, nine cubits long and four cubits wide, is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)

Yes, there were Giants....

The salient point is the verse does not state angels had sex with humans. Angel/human cross breeding is a wildly imaginative delusional interpretation of scripture that has its appeal in sensationalism, not whole scripture.

• God made humans to breed with humans (after their own kind). Every creature God made was created that way.
• The phrase "sons of God" is always used of those following God, not those fallen away from God.
• The fallen angels are called demons (or sons of the devil), not sons of God. Genesis 6:1 does NOT state demons had sex with human females.
• The angels who rebelled against God have been held in bondage, not given the ability and liberty to have sex (with humans or any other creature).

Those facts have to be ignored to interpret Genesis 6:1 to as demons cross breeding with humans, and I am still waiting on you to provide some scripture stating Satan wants to rule the earth.

 

[Arial]

Man will always have that mandate. That's one of the reasons why Satan tried with hybrids. Satan was doing well
Gen 6 tells us....5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. You seem to be claiming Satan had no part in the wickedness.

For me to say that I don't believe that Gen 6 is stating that fallen angels procreated with humans women in no way equals me saying that Satan had no part in wickedness. Besides that fact, before you were contending that it was fallen angels and now you refer it to Satan. But you have no support for hybrids but demytholization of pagan myths that are stated outside of God's word and then brought into it. And you have no support for (or give none) saying Satan's goal is to take dominion of the earth from man and give it to himself.

The Bible itself gives thorough support for the idea that what Satan is doing in first deceiving Eve and Adam bowing to her instead of asserting is rightful position as her protector, is this: What Satan is doing throughout the historical events in the Bible is FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE! He thinks he can do that by destroying the Seed and deceiving men. You also completely ignored the ultimate doctrine of God. He is sovereign. None of his creatures, not even Satan or fallen angels can do a single thing without his permission. There are no autonomous creatures. So even their falling is according to his decree and within the Covenant of Redemption. Satan and his minions are the target.

I never said man lost the mandate. All I said is that Satan tried to control earth via proxy.

Satan is fighting for his life. If he can defeat God, then he becomes God. Those are the stakes he is up against. He has to defeat God. And he must actually think he can if God gives him enough reign. All he has
to do is kill the Redeemer right? Having dominion over the earth has nothing to do with it. The enmity, with both Satan and men is with God. Read Psalm 2. It is men fighting against God and his throne. Is Satan the influencer? Well, who else?

Thats incorrect....and because of your lack of knowledge I replied back with....If you say so.

When you refer to my lack of knowledge(for the second time) is that implying that your knowledge is greater than mine and if only I had the knowledge that you have I would agree with you? First of all to say I have lack of knowledge is a presumptive statement that you have no way of knowing or verifying since you do not even say what knowledge I do not have. There are actually many things I have no knowledge of and many things I do have knowledge of. But this "conversation": which btw is supposed to be related to the OP big picture and not isolated Gen 6, is not about you or me. It would require you to offer the knowledge you think I don't have. The knowledge, not an opinion, but the knowledge that formed the opinion, and not "If you say so". If your knowledge on the subject is greater than mine, I would expect to be shown that knowledge. Knowledge and opinion or assumption are not the same thing.

Here is the knowledge that i would like for you to impart to me. Why is it necessary for fallen angel DNA to mix with human DNA in order for man to become exceedingly wicked?

It is in the bible...read Gen six.

Just reading Gen 6 will not persuade me that your position is correct. No matter how many times I read it I will not presume something that is not explicitly stated, or got outside of the Bible to find the answer. It may remain somewhat of a mystery to me, as it has to all honest readers ever since it was penned. That is why there are different interpretations. However, what I won't do is give it an interpretation that the Bible does not give, but that elsewhere in the Bible indicates that angels don't procreate, that mankind has no need of alien DNA in order to fight against God or become wicked to the core. (That happened the second Adam took that bite of the forbidden fruit and the only fallen angel around was the liar and the father of lies),and that everything God created produces after its own kind, and angels and humans are not of the same kind. And I will not presume that spiritual beings even have DNA just because humans do.

 

[Josheb]

That seems to assume that his command was for all the ages, from the beginning and for eternity. I don't see any reason to assume that.

It's not an assumption. That command is reiterated in different wordings throughout scripture. After the flood God said, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on every living creature on the earth, every bird of the air, every creature that crawls on the ground, and all the fish of the sea. They are delivered into your hand. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you; just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you all things...."

Consider the part about filling the earth in the light of a mortal human. Can the earth literally be filled in a single lifetime? No. How many generations would it take to fill the earth and subdue it for God, turning what was desolate into a living, thriving alternative? One "age"? Two? How long would those ages be? So we see the assumptions are on the doubting side of that command, not the affirmative side. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and several generations, after God had wiped the earth clear of all humans but eight, He uttered the exact same directive to Noah and his ilk . Would that constitute a new age or a continuation of the same old age? Where do we find the premise of any mention of "age" asserted in either passage? Nowhere. So let's not create nonsense and imagine it reason.

Generations later God told Abram, "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you." Two generations later He told Jacob, "God also said to him, “I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a multitude of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come from you." 400 years later He told the wandering Hebrews, "So I will turn toward you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will confirm My covenant with you." Jesus reframes the dominion mandate as the great commission before he ascended, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to follow all that I commanded you." Millennia after God first spoke those words to Adam and Eve, Paul was preaching to the Greeks and said, "He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation..."

That is a sampling of the many passages found throughout scripture that speak of multiplying, being fruitful, overcoming desolation, and ruling or asserting authority as agents of God.... all over the planet. No assumptions needed, wanted, or made.

I don't see any reason to assume that.

Now you have plenty of reasons for knowing God's first command has never been repealed.


And this is very op-relevant because everyone assumes Paul is writing about Adam eating the forbidden kiwi when he says, "...through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men..." but the facts of history are that had Adam obey the dominion mandate he never would have disobeyed the prohibition against eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were given authority over all the creatures in the garden and the serpent was a creature in the garden. Had Adam ruled over that creature as he had been directed to do, the fall might never have occurred. The first sin was not the eating of the forbidden fruit. The first sin was not ruling and subduing the serpent. The first act of disobedience was a failure of dominion.

The very next episode reported in scripture is another example of failed dominion.

Genesis 4:7
If you do well, will your face not be cheerful? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.

Master sin. Even in the sinful state God expected Cain to master sin. Sin is just another version of desolation. When God made the earth it was desolate. God planted a garden on it and told the humans he made to multiply be fruitful subdue the earth and rule over it. The same conditions existed just before Christ died. When Jesus returned to Jerusalem, he was confronted by the Jewish leaders multiple times and each episode illustrates the pervasive desolation that existed there. By the end of the day he has pronounced the dwelling of the Pharisees desolate. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Micah, and Zephaniah (and those are the ones I can think of in this moment) all spoke of the desolation that was Israel. Israel was supposed to be an example to all the other nations. They refused to be the proverbial light on the hilltop, the shining example, all others were to emulate but they failed to multiply, subdue, and rule. The history of much of the Bible is simply a replay of Genesis 3:6-7 in which Israel is constantly giving in to idolatry and adultery, subjugation instead of authoritative rule over all the desolation existing in the world.

 

[Arial]

That's pretty simple to do. The sons of God are not Cains linage nor are the Seths.
Exeresis shows the sons of God are angels....
Job 1:6 tells us....Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The sons of God were not human.
In Job 38:7 we also read......while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Once again the sons of God mentoned were not human as humans didn't exist when God was making the earth.

But----"sons of God" does not always refer to angels.

• Hebrew: bene elohim
• Greek: huioi theou)

The meaning changes depending on the setting.

On Gen 6 the interpretation bene elohim as meaning angelic beings is derived from 1 Enoch 6-7 (a Second Tempe Jewish work widely read in NT times, but it is not Scripture based. It is tradition based. So, the usage as angelic beings is not established by God's word. Linking it to 2 Per 2:4-5 and Jude 6-7 to call Enoch's view God's word is not valid. Those passages must be interpreted in line with God's word also, not Enoch's word. The key phrase that is used to link them is "did not stay within thier own domain". To say that can only mean they came to earth is a logical fallacy. There are other options.

• They abandoned their assigned role, rank, responsibility.
• They became agents of corruption, abandoning their role of serving God.

It could be about faithlessness, not geography. There is much evidence elsewhere in Scripture that supports this view, and none except the two verses given that may be misinterpreted (reading into the minds of the original author a tradition external to Scripture). But again, this is not the thread for that as it is not the OP topic. By all means, start a thread on it. I have no interest in doing so but I will certainly bring my "lack of knowledge as you say" into it and look forward to being enlightened with the knowldege that I lack.

So, "simple to do" did not use exegesis in order to do it. It used presumed eisegesis.

As you. have just read above...I have kept it bibliclal.

You have kept it consistent with a source outside of Scripture. The Book of Enoch and the presumption that 2 Peter and Jude are doing the same thing that you are. Exegesis would need to provide evidence that the presumptions are accurate and that Enoch is not Jewish tradition of interpretation (one of them) but biblical fact. Exegesis would need to be done within the attributes of God---all of them because none work independently of any of the others. To say that angels of their own free will can take on human form and procreate with humans violates the sovereignty of God. If it were necessary in order for the plan of the Covenant of Redemption to unfold, that would be one thing. But is it? Is that what it takes for men to become perverted? Another DNA added to human DNA? Does it contradice Romans 1? And do you see anywhere else in the Bible that tells us of an angel taking on human form without it being the will of God, or to serve a purpose other than God's purpose?

You provided absolutly NO biblical exegesis.

Saying that doesn't make it so.

What???? Once again you FAILED to explain yourself.

I didn't realize I need to explain what "humanistic" means.

As I have said...man did fail...Satan is trying to control earth via proxy.

Yes, you have said that many times. I am still waiting for you do something besides just say it.

As I have said....I look at reality.
When I said "If you say so."...that because all you did was nay-say with out a proper biblical response.

By reality, do you mean that you get your answers to what the Bible says from the world?

Post #11 is chock full of biblical response. Try responding to my response.

 

[Arial]

The salient point is the verse does not state angels had sex with humans. Angel/human cross breeding is a wildly imaginative delusional interpretation of scripture that has its appeal in sensationalism, not whole scripture.

• God made humans to breed with humans (after their own kind). Every creature God made was created that way.
• The phrase "sons of God" is always used of those following God, not those fallen away from God.
• The fallen angels are called demons (or sons of the devil), not sons of God. Genesis 6:1 does NOT state demons had sex with human females.
• The angels who rebelled against God have been held in bondage, not given the ability and liberty to have sex (with humans or any other creature).

Those facts have to be ignored to interpret Genesis 6:1 to as demons cross breeding with humans, and I am still waiting on you to provide some scripture stating Satan wants to rule the earth.

Speaking o wild imaginings, in addition to bringing the interpretation into the Bible from a source that was excluded from the Protestant Bible (the Book of Enoch); I am reminded in these imaginings of various fairy tales and perhaps too much immersion in graphic novels and comic books, of superheroes opposing villains.