Questions on Sanctification

[Papa Smurf]

I think in terms of two analogies, neither of which are perfect, but have been of some help to me over the years.
1. A tree
2. The land

When God made us Alive 'In Christ' the source of our life changed from the earthly to the heavenly. He essentially and in a very real way severed us from the kingdom of darkness and into His Kingdom. We being like a tree uprooted and turned upside down with our roots now in the heavens. However, the branches are still in this earthly realm and subject to much of what this realm exudes. Our branches are always catching flying things that wish to land there and affect our thinking and yank on our flesh. We have this Treasure in earthen vessels. Through His word (scriptures) rhema and our brethren, we learn to shew away those birds. God will touch something in us and we respond with a "yes Lord", thus agreeing with Him and 'changed'. This is all the Lord's doing. It is only because of 'New Life' that we are able to say 'Yes Lord'.

Hello Alive, as I began to read through this thread (concerning the nature of our sanctification), the idea of what Dr. Packer refers to as "relational sanctification" came quickly to mind again (it's something that I've been wanting to discuss), so I'm glad that you broached the topic

Our 5 yr old granddaughter is with us this evening, so I will have to wait until later or tomorrow to post more, but I thought that I'd go ahead and leave a short article from Dr. Packer for now (actually, it's from his theological primer, Concise Theology).

Great analogy, BTW

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - the concepts of imputation and infusion came to mind as something that I'd like to discuss as well.

SANCTIFICATION
THE CHRISTIAN GROWS IN GRACE

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?… And that is what some of you were.
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
~1 CORINTHIANS 6:9, 11~​

Sanctification, says the Westminster Shorter Catechism (Q.35), is “the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.” The concept is not of sin being totally eradicated (that is to claim too much) or merely counteracted (that is to say too little), but of a divinely wrought character change freeing us from sinful habits and forming in us Christlike affections, dispositions, and virtues.

Sanctification is an ongoing transformation within a maintained consecration, and it engenders real righteousness within the frame of relational holiness. Relational sanctification, the state of being permanently set apart for God, flows from the Cross, where God through Christ purchased and claimed us for himself (Acts 20:28; 26:18; Heb. 10:10). Moral renovation, whereby we are increasingly changed from what we once were, flows from the agency of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 12:1–2; 1 Cor. 6:11, 19–20; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:22–24; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:20–21). God calls his children to sanctity and graciously gives what he commands (1 Thess. 4:4; 5:23).

Regeneration is birth; sanctification is growth. In regeneration, God implants desires that were not there before: desire for God, for holiness, and for the hallowing and glorifying of God’s name in this world; desire to pray, worship, love, serve, honor, and please God; desire to show love and bring benefit to others. In sanctification, the Holy Spirit “works in you to will and to act” according to God’s purpose; what he does is prompt you to “work out your salvation” (i.e., express it in action) by fulfilling these new desires (Phil. 2:12–13). Christians become increasingly Christlike as the moral profile of Jesus (the “fruit of the Spirit”) is progressively formed in them (2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; 5:22–25). Paul’s use of glory in 2 Corinthians 3:18 shows that for him sanctification of character is glorification begun. Then the physical transformation that gives us a body like Christ’s, one that will match our totally transformed character and be a perfect means of expressing it, will be glorification completed (Phil. 3:20–21; 1 Cor. 15:49–53).

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God’s work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic—it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin’s dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14–18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God’s method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10–14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ’s enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we “stay put” (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly—and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

The standard to which God’s work of sanctifying his saints is directed is his own revealed moral law, as expounded and modeled by Christ himself. Christ’s love, humility, and patience under pressure are to be consciously imitated (Eph. 5:2; Phil. 2:5–11; 1 Pet. 2:21), for a Christlike spirit and attitude are part of what law-keeping involves.

Believers find within themselves contrary urgings. The Spirit sustains their regenerate desires and purposes; their fallen, Adamic instincts (the “flesh”) which, though dethroned, are not yet destroyed, constantly distract them from doing God’s will and allure them along paths that lead to death (Gal. 5:16–17; James 1:14–15). To clarify the relationship between the law and sin, Paul analyzes in a personal and dramatic way the sense of impotence for complete law-keeping, and the enslavement to behavior one dislikes, that the Spirit-flesh tension produces (Rom. 7:14–25). This conflict and frustration will be with Christians as long as they are in the body. Yet by watching and praying against temptation, and cultivating opposite virtues, they may through the Spirit’s help “mortify” (i.e., drain the life out of, weaken as a means of killing) particular bad habits, and in that sense more and more die unto sin (Rom. 8:13; Col. 3:5). They will experience many particular deliverances and victories in their unending battle with sin, while never being exposed to temptations that are impossible to resist (1 Cor. 10:13).

~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs (pp. 169–171). Tyndale House.

 

[Carbon]

This is well said. And very important to latch onto.

Thank you

 

[Carbon]

Hokema also says,

Sanctification, therefore, must be understood as being both definitive and progressive. In its definitive sense, it means that work of the Spirit whereby He causes us to die to sin, to be raised with Christ , and to be made new creatures.
In its progressive sense, it must be understood as the work of the Spirit whereas He continues to renews and transforms us into the likeness of Christ , enabling us to keep on growing in grace and to keep on perfecting our holiness.
One could think of definitive sanctification as the beginning of the process and of progressive sanctification as the continual maturing of the new person who was created by definitive sanctification.

 

[atpollard]

I should think this would depend on one's definition of synergism. If all it means is that we, too, work toward that end (of sanctification), then yes, it is synergistic. But if all it means is that our efforts add to God's efforts for an overall greater result than what God can do alone, then, no, it is not synergistic. And, I think most Calvinists/Reformed would agree that any good (sanctification) in me is the work of God alone in me.

Along those lines …

Ephesians 2:8-10 [NKJV]
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

… It sort of seems like God has SOMETHING for us to DO as part of His Plan. [I will leave it to others to split semantic hairs over the definition of ‘synergism’, I just offer an observation].

 

[jeremiah1five]

No.

Those in Christ are not still under judgment.

John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.

The judgment has already been rendered. Those who do not believe in God's Son are already judged. We believe in the name of God's Son. We are, therefore, not judged.

Romans 6:15-19
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

We are slaves of righteousness, and it results in sanctification. What judgment would there be for a slave of righteousness?

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.

This, and other similar verses tell us we will be accountable for every dead and word but this is the most salient verse because it couches the judgment in terms of "compensation." In other words, we speak of "judgment day" even though John 3 tells us the judgment and its verdict has already been rendered. Judgement day is, therefore, best understood in our modern vernacular as "sentencing day," the day when the just recompense for sin is meted out. The day people get their compensation. Those who have sown to the flesh will reap corruption, and those who've sown to the Spirit will reap eternal life (Gal. 6:8).

Romans 7:22-8:4
For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

There is NOW no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. When we stand before God already judged we do so believe in God's Son. There is, therefore, NO condemnation. NONE!

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul was writing about his role as an apostle, but the principle is universally applicable: If a person is building on the foundation of Jesus, then he might build what is perishable when subjected to God's testing, but if s/he has built on Christ s/he may lose everything, come away charred and covered in soot, but s/he will be saved. It is because all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory that James tells those in Christ....

James 2:12-13
So, speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

As a result...

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

It was God's mercy that caused us to be born anew (see also John 3:3).

Jude 1:17-21
But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts." These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

Because we have already been shown mercy...... we eagerly await the mercy of Jesus that leads to eternal life . I, therefore, look forward to the judgment day . I could not even stand before God were I not first justified by Christ and had faith in his Son, but believing in His Son I not only can stand before him but even though a was once entirely a slaved to sin, I now profess Jesus as the resurrected King of all kings, and in him there is found eternal life.

Romans 14:10-12
Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

My account will be, "I am a sinner who has been purchased by the blood of Christ and I no longer live. Christ now lives in me. The life I now live, I now live through faith from the Son of God, the one having loved me and having given up himself for me" (Gal. 2:20). I have no other defense. None of us do. As a consequence of life in Christ, however,

Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

On the day of judgment there will be nothing that can separate me from the love of God found in His Son.

Death is the punishment for sin.

We still die.

Which is the reason why we still set aside land for cemeteries.

Thus, we are still under the judgment for sin which is death.

Simple.

 

[Josheb]

Well if it’s important maybe go back and read more?

He does write:
Reformed theologians commonly assert that sanctification continues throughout a believers life, in distinction from justification, which is a definitive act of God, occurring once for all. Though the NT often describes sanctification as a lifelong process, there is also an important sense in which scripture depicts it as an act of God that is definitive - that is, that occurs at a point in time rather than along a timeline. John Murray, in fact, observes: “it is a fact to frequently overlooked that in the NT the most characteristic terms that refer to sanctification are used, not of a process, but of a once-for-all definitive act.”
A Hokema.

That has nothing to do with "getting used to justification." Hoekema explicitly stated, "...in distinction from justification."

At this point in what he writes, is it difficult to see what Forde is talking about?

Not at all and I commented on it in the other thread.

I believe it blends in with this Calvinist’s Calvinism nicely.

Yes, you do believe that. It does not thusly "blend," but the posts make it clear that is what you believe.

Consider 1 Corinthians 1:2 for example

Ugh.

This is like discussing soteriology with synergists when they take verses written about the regenerate elect and try to make them apply to the unregenerate non-elect.

1 Corinthians 1:2-3
To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

• No mention of justification.
• No mention of getting used to justification.
• No mention of the saints doing anything for their sanctification.
• No mention of how they were sanctified.
• The verse was written to those already sanctified (and justified).
• Absolutely nothing about the red herring, "Do we start in the Spirit and end in the flesh?"

When 1 Cor. 1:2 is considered correctly, we read Paul writing to the saints who've already been sanctified in Christ (monergistically). No mention of Forde's point of view at all (unless it is eisegetically read into the text ). Post 35 ignores the points made in Post 31.

Also,
Paul teaches that believers have died to sin, and also teaches that we have been raised with Christ.
Scripture does not teach us that we must be progressively raised up with Christ.
The power of sin has been broken we are no longer enslaved to it and we now have an irreversible union with Christ. Because of this union we are able to live the Christian life. Working out our salvation with fear and trembling, is something natural for a believer. As we should fear and tremble when we sin because we are a new creation in Christ. And we should count ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ.

This is well said. And very important to latch onto.

It is well said, and important, but it says nothing about sanctification. We're watching a series of bait and switches occur. First the Calvinist Reformed definition of sanctification (why wasn't Sinclair Ferguson's definition used? ) is supplanted with Forde's Lutheran Reformed definition. Next, appeals to extra-biblical sources are used to supplant the plain reading of scripture (where's the scripture stating sanctification is getting used to justification? ), and now "working out our salvation," is being switched with working out one's sanctification (and where might I find that in scripture? ) when the two are not synonymous.

All in avoidance of the fact "sanctification is getting used to justification" is nowhere found in scripture, the history of self-contradictory statements, and the fact a scriptural/Calvinist definition is much different.

 

[Carbon]

That has nothing to do with "getting used to justification." Hoekema explicitly stated, "...in distinction from justification."

Not at all and I commented on it in the other thread.

Yes, you do believe that. It does not thusly "blend," but the posts make it clear that is what you believe.

Ugh.

This is like discussing soteriology with synergists when they take verses written about the regenerate elect and try to make them apply to the unregenerate non-elect.

1 Corinthians 1:2-3
To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

• No mention of justification.
• No mention of getting used to justification.
• No mention of the saints doing anything for their sanctification.
• No mention of how they were sanctified.
• The verse was written to those already sanctified (and justified).
• Absolutely nothing about the red herring, "Do we start in the Spirit and end in the flesh?"

When 1 Cor. 1:2 is considered correctly, we read Paul writing to the saints who've already been sanctified in Christ (monergistically). No mention of Forde's point of view at all (unless it is eisegetically read into the text ). Post 35 ignores the points made in Post 31.

It is well said, and important, but it says nothing about sanctification. We're watching a series of bait and switches occur. First the Calvinist Reformed definition of sanctification (why wasn't Sinclair Ferguson's definition used? ) is supplanted with Forde's Lutheran Reformed definition. Next, appeals to extra-biblical sources are used to supplant the plain reading of scripture (where's the scripture stating sanctification is getting used to justification? ), and now "working out our salvation," is being switched with working out one's sanctification (and where might I find that in scripture? ) when the two are not synonymous.

All in avoidance of the fact "sanctification is getting used to justification" is nowhere found in scripture, the history of self-contradictory statements, and the fact a scriptural/Calvinist definition is much different.

 

[Alive]

Hello Alive, as I began to read through this thread (concerning the nature of our sanctification), the idea of what Dr. Packer refers to as "relational sanctification" came quickly to mind again (it's something that I've been wanting to discuss), so I'm glad that you broached the topic

Our 5 yr old granddaughter is with us this evening, so I will have to wait until later or tomorrow to post more, but I thought that I'd go ahead and leave a short article from Dr. Packer for now (actually, it's from his theological primer, Concise Theology).

Great analogy, BTW

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - the concepts of imputation and infusion came to mind as something that I'd like to discuss as well.

SANCTIFICATION
THE CHRISTIAN GROWS IN GRACE

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?… And that is what some of you were.
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
~1 CORINTHIANS 6:9, 11~​

Sanctification, says the Westminster Shorter Catechism (Q.35), is “the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.” The concept is not of sin being totally eradicated (that is to claim too much) or merely counteracted (that is to say too little), but of a divinely wrought character change freeing us from sinful habits and forming in us Christlike affections, dispositions, and virtues.

Sanctification is an ongoing transformation within a maintained consecration, and it engenders real righteousness within the frame of relational holiness. Relational sanctification, the state of being permanently set apart for God, flows from the Cross, where God through Christ purchased and claimed us for himself (Acts 20:28; 26:18; Heb. 10:10). Moral renovation, whereby we are increasingly changed from what we once were, flows from the agency of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 12:1–2; 1 Cor. 6:11, 19–20; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:22–24; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:20–21). God calls his children to sanctity and graciously gives what he commands (1 Thess. 4:4; 5:23).

Regeneration is birth; sanctification is growth. In regeneration, God implants desires that were not there before: desire for God, for holiness, and for the hallowing and glorifying of God’s name in this world; desire to pray, worship, love, serve, honor, and please God; desire to show love and bring benefit to others. In sanctification, the Holy Spirit “works in you to will and to act” according to God’s purpose; what he does is prompt you to “work out your salvation” (i.e., express it in action) by fulfilling these new desires (Phil. 2:12–13). Christians become increasingly Christlike as the moral profile of Jesus (the “fruit of the Spirit”) is progressively formed in them (2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; 5:22–25). Paul’s use of glory in 2 Corinthians 3:18 shows that for him sanctification of character is glorification begun. Then the physical transformation that gives us a body like Christ’s, one that will match our totally transformed character and be a perfect means of expressing it, will be glorification completed (Phil. 3:20–21; 1 Cor. 15:49–53).

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God’s work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic—it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin’s dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14–18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God’s method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10–14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ’s enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we “stay put” (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly—and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

The standard to which God’s work of sanctifying his saints is directed is his own revealed moral law, as expounded and modeled by Christ himself. Christ’s love, humility, and patience under pressure are to be consciously imitated (Eph. 5:2; Phil. 2:5–11; 1 Pet. 2:21), for a Christlike spirit and attitude are part of what law-keeping involves.

Believers find within themselves contrary urgings. The Spirit sustains their regenerate desires and purposes; their fallen, Adamic instincts (the “flesh”) which, though dethroned, are not yet destroyed, constantly distract them from doing God’s will and allure them along paths that lead to death (Gal. 5:16–17; James 1:14–15). To clarify the relationship between the law and sin, Paul analyzes in a personal and dramatic way the sense of impotence for complete law-keeping, and the enslavement to behavior one dislikes, that the Spirit-flesh tension produces (Rom. 7:14–25). This conflict and frustration will be with Christians as long as they are in the body. Yet by watching and praying against temptation, and cultivating opposite virtues, they may through the Spirit’s help “mortify” (i.e., drain the life out of, weaken as a means of killing) particular bad habits, and in that sense more and more die unto sin (Rom. 8:13; Col. 3:5). They will experience many particular deliverances and victories in their unending battle with sin, while never being exposed to temptations that are impossible to resist (1 Cor. 10:13).

~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs (pp. 169–171). Tyndale House.

I don’t know Packer, but thanks for this. I am barely awake yet, but will dig in later.

 

[Ladodgers6]

makesends said:
I should think this would depend on one's definition of synergism.

Probably that is what it should mean, but that is vague enough for some to infer that the result of synergism is greater than what God can do alone. My wife was one who would say that God cannot do (x, y or z) if we do not obey. The fact that he doesn't is no indication that he cannot.

Yes, our obedience contributes to our sanctification, and that, rather obviously, is also the work of God in us. But that 'contribution' by way of obedience is why historically, sanctification is not the reference to monergism that regeneration is, since we are not only not consulted in the matter, but have no influence in the matter of regeneration. It is God's choice, and not ours, that procures our salvation.

I agree with everything you have stated here, and add the following. After being Justification through Faith Alone apart from works while we are still sinners. Christ sets us free from sin and the curse of the Law.

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
We must walk as disciples of Christ, turning from our sins, and walking in holiness. We must repent from our sins, though this is not perfect and we are still tainted with sin, but we must walk in the Spirt of new life.
​

Keep in Step with the Spirit​

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Remember we are now new creations in Christ. And even these works are the works of God in us.​

 

[Carbon]

I agree with everything you have stated here, and add the following. After being Justification through Faith Alone apart from works while we are still sinning. Christ sets us free from sin and the curse of the Law.

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
We must walk as disciples of Christ, turning from our sins, and walking in holiness. We must repent from our sins, though this is not perfect and we are still tainted with sin, but we must walk in the Spirt of new life.
​

Keep in Step with the Spirit​

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Remember we are now new creations in Christ. And even these works are the works of God in us.​

Amen brother

 

[makesends]

I agree with everything you have stated here, and add the following. After being Justification through Faith Alone apart from works while we are still sinners. Christ sets us free from sin and the curse of the Law.

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
We must walk as disciples of Christ, turning from our sins, and walking in holiness. We must repent from our sins, though this is not perfect and we are still tainted with sin, but we must walk in the Spirt of new life.
​

Keep in Step with the Spirit​

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Remember we are now new creations in Christ. And even these works are the works of God in us.​

Amen that, brother! I love the way Scripture does not go with the Self-Determinist argument I so often hear: "If one is predestined to salvation, what motivation does he have to obey?" Strangely enough, instead, we find, "predestined to good works"! And that, not simply by motivation of the intellect and desires upon weighing the benefits of obeying vs disobeying, nor upon fear of failing, but of the pain of stepping away from the One we NEED, and the sorrow of the soul, and the joy of walking with him, and the satisfaction of living IN HIM.

 

[makesends]

Didn't you just agree with the definition?

Not sure. I agreed, I think, with what it SHOULD be. But the wording leaves open the Arminian Synergistic notion of improving upon what God does. At least, that's the way I remember the conversation.

 

[makesends]

The earthly vessel is for most, but we certainly aren’t.

I'm not following. Is this in answer to @jeremiah1five , post #20? If so, I agree completely.

 

[Alive]

I'm not following. Is this in answer to @jeremiah1five , post #20? If so, I agree completely.

Yes…most means those who fall asleep and the remainder are those that are changed when the Lord returns.

 

[makesends]

Well if it’s important maybe go back and read more?

He does write:
Reformed theologians commonly assert that sanctification continues throughout a believers life, in distinction from justification, which is a definitive act of God, occurring once for all. Though the NT often describes sanctification as a lifelong process, there is also an important sense in which scripture depicts it as an act of God that is definitive - that is, that occurs at a point in time rather than along a timeline. John Murray, in fact, observes: “it is a fact to frequently overlooked that in the NT the most characteristic terms that refer to sanctification are used, not of a process, but of a once-for-all definitive act.”
A Hokema.

At this point in what he writes, is it difficult to see what Forde is talking about? I believe it blends in with this Calvinist’s Calvinism nicely.

Consider 1 Corinthians 1:2 for example

At the risk of pursuing a tangent, I'll butt in here and comment on this. Seems to me that what Hoekema and Murray consider to be both lifelong process and once-and-done —that is, what the Bible refers to in both ways— might actually be both, from God's point-of-view. WE are the ones stuck in the process, but God's works are spoken into existence once-and-accomplished.

 

[Alive]

At the risk of pursuing a tangent, I'll butt in here and comment on this. Seems to me that what Hoekema and Murray consider to be both lifelong process and once-and-done —that is, what the Bible refers to in both ways— might actually be both, from God's point-of-view. WE are the ones stuck in the process, but God's works are spoken into existence once-and-accomplished.

Yup…that old pesky already and not yet deal.
“Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”


(1 Corinthians 6:11 NAS20)

 

[Arial]

At the risk of pursuing a tangent, I'll butt in here and comment on this. Seems to me that what Hoekema and Murray consider to be both lifelong process and once-and-done —that is, what the Bible refers to in both ways— might actually be both, from God's point-of-view. WE are the ones stuck in the process, but God's works are spoken into existence once-and-accomplished.

Very well articulated.

 

[Carbon]

At the risk of pursuing a tangent, I'll butt in here and comment on this. Seems to me that what Hoekema and Murray consider to be both lifelong process and once-and-done —that is, what the Bible refers to in both ways— might actually be both, from God's point-of-view. WE are the ones stuck in the process, but God's works are spoken into existence once-and-accomplished.

I can go with that. So, it can be sanctification is just getting used to justification.

 

[Alive]

A great word…we are set aside as holy and special by God Himself In Christ and then daily walking in the set apartness in experience.
sanctified G0037 ἁγιάζω
-----
[Analytics]
sanctified (23x) G0037 (29x)

[Mounce Greek Dictionary]
gk G39 | s G37 ἁγιάζω hagiazō 28x
to separate, consecrate; cleanse, purify, sanctify; regard or reverence as holy → consecrate; holy; make holy; sanctify.
☞ mounce | niv | esv | csb | nrsv | nkjv | kjv

 

[Carbon]

A great word…we are set aside as holy and special by God Himself In Christ and then daily walking in the set apartness in experience.
sanctified G0037 ἁγιάζω
-----
[Analytics]
sanctified (23x) G0037 (29x)

[Mounce Greek Dictionary]
gk G39 | s G37 ἁγιάζω hagiazō 28x
to separate, consecrate; cleanse, purify, sanctify; regard or reverence as holy → consecrate; holy; make holy; sanctify.
☞ mounce | niv | esv | csb | nrsv | nkjv | kjv

Yes.
And that is the only reason we can and do live the life