Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[fastfredy0]

But I don't have any reason to believe time won't be "a thing of the past" (haha!).

Rolls eyes at the pun *giggles* .. good one

I think part of the definition of a created thing is that it has a beginning and therefore must be part of time (whereas God is not limited by time ... a day is as a 1,000 years ...yahda, yahda)

Don't go too much deeper ... I'm treading water furiously as it is ... *giggle*

 

[civic]

Rolls eyes at the pun *giggles* .. good one

I think part of the definition of a created thing is that it has a beginning and therefore must be part of time (whereas God is not limited by time ... a day is as a 1,000 years ...yahda, yahda)

Don't go too much deeper ... I'm treading water furiously as it is ... *giggle*

Yet the Eternal God permanently broke into the time/space continuum and is forever God in the flesh, a man. Since He has a physical body eternally then He is in time/space even though we cannot see Him now. Eternity means there is no ending to our existence in heaven which btw is a real place. Its something to try and wrap our finite minds around and ponder.

 

[Eleanor]

Rolls eyes at the pun *giggles* .. good one

I think part of the definition of a created thing is that it has a beginning and therefore must be part of time (whereas God is not limited by time ... a day is as a 1,000 years ...yahda, yahda)

Don't go too much deeper ... I'm treading water furiously as it is ... *giggle*

How 'bout he had no beginning, period.

How does that work?

 

[makesends]

Yet the Eternal God permanently broke into the time/space continuum and is forever God in the flesh, a man. Since He has a physical body eternally then He is in time/space even though we cannot see Him now. Eternity means there is no ending to our existence in heaven which btw is a real place. Its something to try and wrap our finite minds around and ponder.

"In the flesh" doesn't mean 'temporal', I think, or at least not in the sense we think of it. Certainly, the fact that the redeemed are together, his body, tells us something is different.

We really don't know what God's existence is. It's part of that huge play on words that God's got going on. Ha! I keep feeling like I need to put scare quotes around words I use to describe 'there'. The older I get the more convinced I am that we haven't a clue.

 

[makesends]

How 'bout he had no beginning, period.

How does that work?

But his body did, I think. Part of that play on words: Forever the Son of God, forever Redeemer, forever Creator, because he was physically born of the Spirit, physically slain, created the temporal creation that physically slayed him. Those, he was with no beginning?

Ha! Maybe this needs to go to the Trinity forum.

 

[civic]

But his body did, I think.

Yes His humanity had a beginning as the Son of God, son of man. And He still has all His humanity- body, soul,spirit. Real flesh and bones that is glorified, immortal and incorruptible via the Resurrection. We also have that hope for our bodies to be just like His.

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes His humanity had a beginning as the Son of God, son of man. And He still has all His humanity- body, soul,spirit. Real flesh and bones that is glorified, immortal and incorruptible via the Resurrection. We also have that hope for our bodies to be just like His.

I look at Hard Sayings, with Country Wisdom...

Look at the Communicatio Idiomatum as the Man Jesus borrowing Deity from the Logos of God; and the Logos of God borrowing Humanity from the Man Jesus...

When you borrow something, it's kind of yours while you're in Custody of it. As an Officer, I deal with Renters as if they are Owners. A husband and a Wife both own the Dog...

 

[fastfredy0]

How 'bout he had no beginning, period.

How does that work?

I read that God is not limited by time; therefore, He is currently in every moment of time.

The older I get the more convinced I am that we haven't a clue.

Agreed ... therefore, ignore my previous statement ... (giggle)
Fun to speculate .... hmmmm, Job got a reprimand for speculating. Maybe I shouldn't speculate about the pluses and minuses of speculating.

 

[Eleanor]

But his body did, I think. Part of that play on words: Forever the Son of God, forever Redeemer, forever Creator, because he was physically born of the Spirit, physically slain, created the temporal creation that physically slayed him. Those, he was with no beginning?

Ha! Maybe this needs to go to the Trinity forum.

You're right. . .it was just a comment in response to treading water in regard to understanding time.

 

[His clay]

Looking forward to hearing about it.

I've started reading a 4 views book. I just started on Boyd's approach to the topic, then I'll move to Dave Hunt's view, then William Lane Craig, and finally Paul Helm's view. I'm going to be taking someone to the hospital today to get a procedure done, so I'll have some more time to read. I'll try to keep you updated as things progress.

The 4 views of God's knowledge are
(1) Open Theism
(2) Simple Foreknowledge
(3) Middle Knowledge
(4) Calvinistic View

Tragically, Boy's view has been expressed by many in the other forum many of us have participated in. It is very informative to see the similarities of argument between Boyd and those in the other forum.

 

[Eleanor]

I've started reading a 4 views book. I just started on Boyd's approach to the topic, then I'll move to Dave Hunt's view, then William Lane Craig, and finally Paul Helm's view. I'm going to be taking someone to the hospital today to get a procedure done, so I'll have some more time to read. I'll try to keep you updated as things progress.

The 4 views of God's knowledge are
(1) Open Theism
(2) Simple Foreknowledge
(3) Middle Knowledge
(4) Calvinistic View

Tragically, Boy's view has been expressed by many in the other forum many of us have participated in. It is very informative to see the similarities of argument between Boyd and those in the other forum.

God is sovereign.
Nothing occurs that is not according to his purpose and plan, including sin.
It all being according to his plan, he ordained and knew it all before the world was ever created.
That is his foreknowledge, of his own decrees, which govern everything and their outcomes, for the sake of his own purposes.

 

[His clay]

God is sovereign.
Nothing occurs that is not according to his purpose and plan, including sin.
It all being according to his plan, he ordained and knew it all before the world was ever created.
That is his foreknowledge, of his own decrees, which govern everything and their outcomes, for the sake of his own purposes.

I largely agree with your view (the Calvinistic view). However, my goal right now is to read, study, and properly discern the arguments each person makes in the book. It is only after adequately understanding the other views that I will then seek to make critiques of each. I appreciate the time you took to write the comment above. Perhaps I am weird, but I like knowing what is going on in other's heads. Even if I disagree, I try to fairly represent other's views. I can be quite brutal in critiquing, but only after adequately knowing the other view(s).

I kind of wish that someone other than Dave Hunt represented the simple foreknowledge view. I feel like I'll be cheated from an actual scholarly representation of the view, for I don't consider him to be a scholar on the topic.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Which verse(s) or passages destroy the Arminian understanding of "foreknowledge?" Which is that God looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and these He elected.

They are there.

Deu 32:20 And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them; I will see what their end will be, for they are a perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.

Is the foreknowledge expressed in Deut 32:20?

 

[Carbon]

Deu 32:20 And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them; I will see what their end will be, for they are a perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.

Is the foreknowledge expressed in Deut 32:20?

Hello and welcome. It’s been a while. Did you miss me?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hello and welcome. It’s been a while. Did you miss me?

Definitely! I hope things have been well for you brother!

 

[Carbon]

Definitely! I hope things have been well for you brother!

And you as well.

 

[Deleted member 6]

And you as well.

You might wanna correct this.

 

[Carbon]

You might wanna correct this.

correct what?

 

[civic]

Definitely! I hope things have been well for you brother!

Good to see you my old friend !

Wait you are not old lol , only us being friends

 

[Deleted member 6]

correct what?

You corrected it, as “as” originally had an additional “s” on the end of it.