Providence

[Arial]

Providence is a word that was used often, and not just by theologians, but by ordinary God fearing people. And they knew what it meant. It was not an idle comment but one that communicated the sovereignty and trustworthiness of God.

The Westminster Confession, ch. 5 explains providence well.

1. God, the great Creator of all things, doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy Providence, according to his infallible for-knowledge and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness and mercy. a. Heb 1:3. • b. Psa 135:6; Dan 4:34-35; Acts 17:25-26, 28; Job 38-41 throughout c. Mat 10:29-31. • d. Psa 104:24; 145:17; Prov 15:3. • e. Psa 94:8-11; Acts 15:18. • f. Psa 33:10-11; Eph 1:11. • g. Gen 45:7; Psa 145:7; Isa 63:14; Rom 9:17; Eph 3:10.
2. Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly, yet by the same Providence he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.a. Acts 2:23. • b. Gen 8:22; Exod 21:13 with Deut 19:5; 1 Kings 22:28, 34; Isa 10:6-7; Jer 31:35.
3. God, in His ordinary Providence, maketh use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at his pleasure. Isa 55:10-11; Hosea 2:21-22; Acts 27:31, 44. • b. Job 34:10; Hosea 1:7; Mat 4:4. • c. Rom 4:19-21. • d. 2 Kings 6:6; Dan 3:27.​

We learn then that there are three aspects to Providence.
Preservation, meaning God upholds and sustains all things in existence(Heb 1:3; Col 1:17).
Concurrence--God works through the real actions of his creatures, coordinating choices with
purposes (Gen 50:20; Acts 2:23).
Government--God directs all events toward their appointed end (Eph 1:11; Ps 135:6).

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[ElectedbyHim]

He is in control of everything.

Macarthur once said in one of his sermons, that the Lord "orchestrates" everything.

That word has always stuck with me.

Thank you for bringing up this Sovereign attribute.

 

[makesends]

Providence is a word that was used often, and not just by theologians, but by ordinary God fearing people. And they knew what it meant. It was not an idle comment but one that communicated the sovereignty and trustworthiness of God.

The Westminster Confession, ch. 5 explains providence well.

1. God, the great Creator of all things, doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy Providence, according to his infallible for-knowledge and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness and mercy. a. Heb 1:3. • b. Psa 135:6; Dan 4:34-35; Acts 17:25-26, 28; Job 38-41 throughout c. Mat 10:29-31. • d. Psa 104:24; 145:17; Prov 15:3. • e. Psa 94:8-11; Acts 15:18. • f. Psa 33:10-11; Eph 1:11. • g. Gen 45:7; Psa 145:7; Isa 63:14; Rom 9:17; Eph 3:10.
2. Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly, yet by the same Providence he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.a. Acts 2:23. • b. Gen 8:22; Exod 21:13 with Deut 19:5; 1 Kings 22:28, 34; Isa 10:6-7; Jer 31:35.
3. God, in His ordinary Providence, maketh use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at his pleasure. Isa 55:10-11; Hosea 2:21-22; Acts 27:31, 44. • b. Job 34:10; Hosea 1:7; Mat 4:4. • c. Rom 4:19-21. • d. 2 Kings 6:6; Dan 3:27.​

We learn then that there are three aspects to Providence.
Preservation, meaning God upholds and sustains all things in existence(Heb 1:3; Col 1:17).
Concurrence--God works through the real actions of his creatures, coordinating choices with
purposes (Gen 50:20; Acts 2:23).
Government--God directs all events toward their appointed end (Eph 1:11; Ps 135:6).

Thoughts? Comments?

Yeah, I have thoughts and comments, but my thinking that God is meticulously in control of all things is not very popular. To me, means, contingencies and will, are still all meticulously controlled, by simple causally falling out as purposed by omnipotent First Cause himself.

Second, by Immanence: All things were made by him ex nihilo. The suggestion is strong that the very substance of which things are made is also a result of the very purpose they are made, as @John Bauer was referring to in another thread. The material ontology of a thing is not mutually exclusive with its covenantal ontology. By him our very existences are upheld, and not 'from a distance'. He is intimately involved in all fact.

God made this, and it is for himself. From himself.

I don't see how anything I said there, though some will say so, means robothood, forcing, no will, fake choice, etc etc, nor does it make God the author of sin.

 

[fastfredy0]

means robothood

I think an analogy comparing us to robots is just. Men control all aspects of robots and God controls all aspects of men (providence).

Providence​

The directing care of God over things animate and inanimate—beneficially over those who yielded to His will. Providence is the divine outworking of all decrees, the object being the final manifestation of God’s glory. God is continually involved with all created things in such a way that he:

Keeps them existing and maintaining the properties with which he created them (see Acts 17:28a, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3, Romans 11:36, Job 34:14-15, John 1:3)

Cooperates with created things in every action, directing their distinctive properties to cause them to act as they do; (concurrence) and

Directs them to fulfill his purposes (government) Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written the days that were appointed for me, When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].

 

[Arial]

Yeah, I have thoughts and comments, but my thinking that God is meticulously in control of all things is not very popular. To me, means, contingencies and will, are still all meticulously controlled, by simple causally falling out as purposed by omnipotent First Cause himself.

Second, by Immanence: All things were made by him ex nihilo. The suggestion is strong that the very substance of which things are made is also a result of the very purpose they are made, as @John Bauer was referring to in another thread. The material ontology of a thing is not mutually exclusive with its covenantal ontology. By him our very existences are upheld, and not 'from a distance'. He is intimately involved in all fact.

God made this, and it is for himself. From himself.

I don't see how anything I said there, though some will say so, means robothood, forcing, no will, fake choice, etc etc, nor does it make God the author of sin.

We have three theological words pertaining to the Doctrine of God, that show up in a discussion of Providence.

1. Decree
2. Ordain
3. Govern​

Instinctually it seemed to me that these words were not synonyms when referring to God. That there were subtle difference between decree and ordain, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Govern is the word that applies to providence, but it is connected to his decreeing and ordaining. Providence is a word used for pastoral comfort concerning the day to day providential rule of God over the world, according to his decrees and ordaining.

So I looked into it to find the words that instinct could not find. The two words are sometimes used interchangeably but when that is done, the ordaining is always, also, being related to the decree.

In short:
Decree: eternal blueprint
Ordain: Appointment of events.

Calvin on decree from the Institutes:
"Nothing happens but what is knowingly and willingly decreed by Him."
The foundation before the world began, God determined the course of all
things.

Ordain: The Institues l,xviii.1 "They did by their wickedness what God had
ordained by His righteous decree." He connects God's eternal decree
with the historical act.

For Calvin, ordain is decree applied or realized.

Govern: God's ongoing providential rule of creation, directing all things to their appointed end.

Institutes "God not only foresaw what would happen to man, but also ordained it by His decree and how governs it by His power."

 

[fastfredy0]

We have three theological words pertaining to the Doctrine of God, that show up in a discussion of Providence.

1. Decree
2. Ordain
3. []Govern[/]

1. That there were subtle difference between decree and ordain, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

I asked ChatGPT to give 'reforms' definition of "decree" and "ordain" and it said:

• Decree = God’s eternal decision (before creation).
• Ordain = God’s temporal appointment or arrangement (within history, in accordance with the decree).

Seemed to me that the definition of Ordain was akin to my definition of 'providence' so I asked ChatGPT to give definitions of both and got:

• Ordain = God’s eternal plan (before time).
• Providence = God’s execution of that plan (in time).

So, ChatGPT gave conflicting definitions of 'Ordain'. I think I will just think that "ordain" and "decree" are the same thing.

 

[Hazelelponi]

We have three theological words pertaining to the Doctrine of God, that show up in a discussion of Providence.

1. Decree
2. Ordain
3. Govern​

Instinctually it seemed to me that these words were not synonyms when referring to God. That there were subtle difference between decree and ordain, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Govern is the word that applies to providence, but it is connected to his decreeing and ordaining. Providence is a word used for pastoral comfort concerning the day to day providential rule of God over the world, according to his decrees and ordaining.

So I looked into it to find the words that instinct could not find. The two words are sometimes used interchangeably but when that is done, the ordaining is always, also, being related to the decree.

In short:
Decree: eternal blueprint
Ordain: Appointment of events.

Calvin on decree from the Institutes:
"Nothing happens but what is knowingly and willingly decreed by Him."
The foundation before the world began, God determined the course of all
things.

Ordain: The Institues l,xviii.1 "They did by their wickedness what God had
ordained by His righteous decree." He connects God's eternal decree
with the historical act.

For Calvin, ordain is decree applied or realized.

Govern: God's ongoing providential rule of creation, directing all things to their appointed end.

Institutes "God not only foresaw what would happen to man, but also ordained it by His decree and how governs it by His power."

I don't always understand how to use the words correctly in a sentence.

So let's go with something I understand. In Scripture we see the verse man casts the die into the lap but God determines their order (or where/how they land).

In war we don't know for sure, for sure that we are going into war in accordance with God's will for us in that moment because He's not saying hey yes go for it or no your jumping the gun, all we can do is our best in accordance with what we know about and of God and we do so prayerfully and reverently in accordance with the seriousness of the moment. (In theory, a theory rarely modeled I know, but it's accurate methodology)

So what ends up happening is that we act and then judge what God's Will had been about the matter; for example if a war occurs at all the war was by God's decree and also so is either the win or the loss of the same.

For example, we can say that both Barak Obama and Donald Trump was decreed by God to be president of the United States, and the last administration too. (Some things are for our good and some things are judgement),

God decreed we should lose the Afghanistan war but clearly decreed we would have it, so on and so forth.

We know what the will of God is by looking at what happened and then judge history accordingly, learning what God might want us to learn from each thing, good and bad and improve ourselves - repent - avoiding the same historical wrongs noting every situation is different.

How would we say these things in sentences correctly?

I think @makesends corrected me once but I proceeded to forget what that exact exchange was.

 

[Arial]

I don't always understand how to use the words correctly in a sentence.

So let's go with something I understand. In Scripture we see the verse man casts the die into the lap but God determines their order (or where/how they land).

In war we don't know for sure, for sure that we are going into war in accordance with God's will for us in that moment because He's not saying hey yes go for it or no your jumping the gun, all we can do is our best in accordance with what we know about and of God and we do so prayerfully and reverently in accordance with the seriousness of the moment. (In theory, a theory rarely modeled I know, but it's accurate methodology)

So what ends up happening is that we act and then judge what God's Will had been about the matter; for example if a war occurs at all the war was by God's decree and also so is either the win or the loss of the same.

For example, we can say that both Barak Obama and Donald Trump was decreed by God to be president of the United States, and the last administration too. (Some things are for our good and some things are judgement),

God decreed we should lose the Afghanistan war but clearly decreed we would have it, so on and so forth.

We know what the will of God is by looking at what happened and then judge history accordingly, learning what God might want us to learn from each thing, good and bad and improve ourselves - repent - avoiding the same historical wrongs noting every situation is different.

How would we say these things in sentences correctly?

I think @makesends corrected me once but I proceeded to forget what that exact exchange was.

I will let @makesends give his answer.

As for myself, I would say the short answer is providence. Providence here, being the means by which God governs what he decrees, by ordaining that it will come to pass.

You are correct in the way we know what his will is by what happens. What we don't know always, is why that was his will. But it happened by his decree, was ordained to happen a certain way for a certain purpose, and governed by means and/or contingencies.

The most explicit and bold example of this is found in the crucifixion of Jesus. Redemption through Christ was decreed. He was ordained to die on the cross. God governed this through the ordained acts of evil men, who were doing exactly as they wanted to do, thus making them responsible, also for his purposes. What they meant for evil purpose, God meant for the ultimate good. And we know the end of that story, the good, for he has told us. He defeated all God's enemies on the cross, and when all of his people have been gathered into the flock, the enemies of God, human and principalities and powers in the heavenly realm, will be destroyed, and creation itself restored.

 

[Arial]

I asked ChatGPT to give 'reforms' definition of "decree" and "ordain" and it said:

• Decree = God’s eternal decision (before creation).
• Ordain = God’s temporal appointment or arrangement (within history, in accordance with the decree).

Seemed to me that the definition of Ordain was akin to my definition of 'providence' so I asked ChatGPT to give definitions of both and got:

• Ordain = God’s eternal plan (before time).
• Providence = God’s execution of that plan (in time).

So, ChatGPT gave conflicting definitions of 'Ordain'. I think I will just think that "ordain" and "decree" are the same thing.

They are often used interchangeably, even by Calvin. However, when he does that it is always with the decree as the basis for the ordaining. I can say that, because I read what he said about each. Here again is his reference to the crucifixion.

Ordain: The Institues l,xviii.1 "They did by their wickedness what God had
ordained by His righteous decree." He connects God's eternal decree
with the historical act.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I will let @makesends give his answer.

As for myself, I would say the short answer is providence. Providence here, being the means by which God governs what he decrees, by ordaining that it will come to pass.

You are correct in the way we know what his will is by what happens. What we don't know always, is why that was his will. But it happened by his decree, was ordained to happen a certain way for a certain purpose, and governed by means and/or contingencies.

The most explicit and bold example of this is found in the crucifixion of Jesus. Redemption through Christ was decreed. He was ordained to die on the cross. God governed this through the ordained acts of evil men, who were doing exactly as they wanted to do, thus making them responsible, also for his purposes. What they meant for evil purpose, God meant for the ultimate good. And we know the end of that story, the good, for he has told us. He defeated all God's enemies on the cross, and when all of his people have been gathered into the flock, the enemies of God, human and principalities and powers in the heavenly realm, will be destroyed, and creation itself restored.

I think these are most excellent thoughts.