Mystery of the most holy trinity!
- Thread starter donadams
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His Father is His God. But you say Jesus is God.
Do you need a reference?
Runningman showed you so many of them.
You are going back to baiting to argue.
so sad.
Runningman
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I asked him directly if he believes Romans 10:9 about believing in his heart if God raised Jesus from the dead to be saved, many pages ago by now, and he never answered it. Actually I asked three times and he just wanted to argue about Jesus being God because he actually believes Jesus raised Jesus from the dead despite what the Bible teaches.
Acts 2
32God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.
They believe Jesus raised Himself.
Runningman
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If Jesus raised Jesus then Jesus didn't die. Seems they didn't think this through.
their doctrines are full of holes.
Runningman
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Full of holes and it's possibly a salvation issue. I am not 100% and I don't want to judge, but it seems like if Jesus raised Jesus from the dead then Jesus didn't actually die. In that case there was never an atoning sacrifice for sins and they are still in them. Am I understanding this correctly?
1 Corinthians 15
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. 15In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men.
There is no salvation as long as we believe in a triune god. Our core belief is based on the wrong god, there is no way they understand simple salvation.
God cannot be mocked.
This site is the only one that lets me voice all my convictions regarding the salvation issue.
they are blessed just because they don't shut me off by banning me.
Christian God is not truine God, which needs to be told to the world.
If we keep silent about it, we are in deep trouble with God ourselves.
Cowardly is first in the list of sins.
You seem to forget the doctrine of the trinity, Christ true God and true man!
His humanity is subject to God!
Simply put; be faithful to God and Jesus, meaning obey everything Jesus commands you.
Jesus was sent to teach us how to love God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind.
I am not here to evangelize or teach any triune god believers.
Runningman is doing a great job with verses for teaching you guys.
Jesus says not to throw pearls to the swine.
I am on the site to spread the true Christianity to the world.
blessings.
Really this is not even true “16th century” Christianity but 18th century fundamentalist errors!
It’s not a Bible study it’s a covenant with a mediator, with an initiation!
The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!
*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Initiation!!!
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!
You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!
You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!
“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)
No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
Blessings
Runningman
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Yes we should at least to inform people. I am not saying people need to be brow-beat, but as long as they continue to remain open then going the extra mile with someone isn't out the question. Who knows, maybe the seed will take root. Difficult to say, but it's worth trying.
They believe Jesus is God.
I’m do too!
What does triune mean?
What do you think Matt 16:19 and 18:18!mean by the apostles authority to bind?
It does not matter if you claim not to be a Triune god believer.
You believe Jesus is God. You deny Jesus' word.
How?
I do believe in the holy trinity!
Binyawmene
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Ironic. Telling me that I have no claims to logic is like telling a Greek Scholar, "You have no claims to Biblical Greek," when you are clueless about Biblical Greek. Anyways, the Hypostatic Union is a Divine Mystery or the Mystery of the Faith to the Church “the mystery of God, namely, Christ,” (Colossians 2:2, 9). This mystery is not an intellectual puzzle or a contradiction. Nor is it an outgrowth of speculation. But it’s a revelation that was made known unto the Church. There is no need to give a Scriptural list that: a). Equality with the Father demonstrates the Divine Nature. b). Divine titles/names and divine attributes ascribed to Christ. c). Certain things Christ said is according to the Divine Nature. d). And of course, the resurrection. The Lexicon definition for Spirit has a wide range of semantic meaning, which also can mean "the spiritual Divine Nature of Christ" according to these particular verses (1 Timothy 3:16, 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 1:3-4). You already know the Bible has the phrase "in the flesh" (human nature reference to the incarnation) and there is also antithesis expression "in the Spirit" (Divine Nature reference to the resurrection) in relation to Christ. I've already demonstrated that Jesus Christ is God Scripturally (1 John 5:20, Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, etc.) and you demonstrated a denial in this thread.
Besides, the logical conjunction isn't just limited to the phrase "both God and Man" when referring to Jesus Christ in Scriptures. There is also a structural pattern found in Scriptures of Jesus Christ's Divine attributes as God and Human attributes as Man. For example, this is evident from the fact that Jesus Christ has divine intelligence being omniscient and his human intelligence that increased. You can also say, "Jesus Christ is"... "both omniscient and ignorant," "both omnipresent and localized," and "both omnipotent and powerless". The list goes on and on. From a logical standpoint, a conjunction is most effective and better approach Scripturally. Because, again, the meaning of a certain phraseology is 'drawn out' from the whole of Scriptures exegetically. If we know "this" and we know "that" about Jesus Christ, then Scriptures as a whole don't contradict but harmonizes. I will demonstrate an example, while the Readers can see your denial of this example:
Jesus Christ is both Omniscient and Ignorant
Jesus Christ is Omniscient
Jesus Christ knows all things (1 John 3:20 i.e. John 16:30, John 21:17).
Jesus Christ knows the Father (Matthew 11:27, John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).
Jesus Christ knows all people (Psalm 139:1-4 i.e. John 2:24-25, Matthew 9:4, Mark 2:8, Luke 5:22, John 6:64).
Jesus Christ knows where to catch fish, even a coin (Luke 5:4-6, Matthew 17:27).
Jesus Christ knows the Father (Matthew 11:27, John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).
Jesus Christ knows all people (Psalm 139:1-4 i.e. John 2:24-25, Matthew 9:4, Mark 2:8, Luke 5:22, John 6:64).
Jesus Christ knows where to catch fish, even a coin (Luke 5:4-6, Matthew 17:27).
Jesus Christ is Ignorant
Jesus Christ grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
Jesus Christ didn't know there was figs in the tree (Mark 11:12-13).
Jesus Christ didn't know where they laid Lazarus (John 11:33-35).
Jesus Christ didn't know who touched him (Luke 8:45-46).
Jesus Christ didn't know there was figs in the tree (Mark 11:12-13).
Jesus Christ didn't know where they laid Lazarus (John 11:33-35).
Jesus Christ didn't know who touched him (Luke 8:45-46).
Messiah Complex. You are embarking on a selfless service to humanity by being obtuse and argumentative. And that somehow will rid the world of Trinitarians. Not only that... you are clueless when it comes to the most basics of logic. Or you would have demonstrated a negated conjunction for all readers in this thread. Your whole Unitarian argument was based on "Jesus Christ is a man negates him being God." I proved that faulty line of reasoning by pointing out the fallacy of Denying a Conjunct. Whoop! There just went your whole argument! That's a real refutation I've presented. Your Plan A has failed, it's time for you to come up with Plan B. And also, you are pointing out Scriptures that Jesus Christ is a man affirms the Hypostatic Union position. As I have said before,
Logically, they cannot argue from the Hypostatic Union doctrinal position that "Jesus Christ is Man." Because they would be affirming and adding support to what we already believe about Jesus Christ. The common theme is demonstrated by pointing out Bible verses that Jesus Christ has claimed to be "a man." Or pointing out attributes of his "humanity" like being hungry, weeping, and lacking knowledge, etc. Then make bare assertions that he never claims to be "God." From their mindset its assumed that Jesus Christ being a man negates over him being God. Unfortunately, there would be no argument between both Hypostatic Unionists and Man-Only advocates in that particular regard. Even at the most basic level fundamentally. Since ultimately there would be a passable or just good enough acceptable agreement about Jesus Christ's humanity.
I have no need to address your misinterpretation of Scriptures or give a rebuttal. I've refuted your presupposition (that underlying philosophy) or preconceived assumption "that Jesus Christ is man negates him being God," which has mold, shape, and fashion your beliefs of who is Jesus Christ. So, everytime you have a discussion with a Hypostatic Unionist, your under that assumption and it has influenced the way you interpret Scriptures and not from the author's original intent. That assumption has also caused you to discuss in a fallacious manner too. Your Unitarian's leaders didn't teach you that you would have to negate the whole conjunction G ^ M to ~(G ^ M). The negated conjunction as a whole "It is not the case that Jesus Christ is both God and Man" is something that most Man-Only advocates doesn't want to negate that the De Morgan Laws demands. If that was the case, then they would be negating that "Jesus Christ is man" too, otherwise, the logical conjunction that "Jesus Christ is both God and Man" stand as true.
