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Justification by faith alone

Not true.

All Calvinist hold to what is sung in the hymn "Amazing Grace"
We did NOTHING to deserve God's mercy, and will NEVER claim it.
Never claim God's mercy?


You will never claim God's mercy????

Please tell me

"Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see."

Please tell me , as you are claiming the Amazing Grace hymn....
When were you lost? And how were you found.

Also... in the Calvin (ie John) view of things

According to John Calvin, predestination is God's unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be "barred from access to" salvation and sentenced to "eternal death

If you were lost, was that before God Predestined you?

Who determines who the reprobate are?
God?
WHY?

If He made each and every one why send some to eternal death? It is said he predetermined this..... WHY?

If we are predetermined to faith/salvation then we don't have to consciously believe in faith... So why the ones who are damned?

FYI... From the time I could understand things as a tot I had faith in Jesus that I was saved. I never had a "come to Jesus" moment... just a thirst to learn all I could about him. But that was as an adult.
Unlike you, braggart!

But you claim your work of faith makes you good enough.
Stop speaking with a forked tongue, braggart.

There is only one condition.

Of course I am certain. He revealed Himself to me.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Well, how are you certain braggart?

Not true.

All Calvinist hold to what is sung in the hymn "Amazing Grace"
We did NOTHING to deserve God's mercy, and will NEVER claim it.

Unlike you, braggart!

But you claim your work of faith makes you good enough.
Stop speaking with a forked tongue, braggart.

There is only one condition.

Of course I am certain. He revealed Himself to me.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Well, how are you certain braggart?
 
Never claim God's mercy?


You will never claim God's mercy????
Never claim that we deserve His mercy.
Please tell me.
Ok. I told you.
My grammar is not always the best. I will never claim to deserve God's mercy.

"Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see."

Please tell me , as you are claiming the Amazing Grace hymn....
When were you lost? And how were you found.
Yes, God came and brought me out of the mire that was my life.
Also... in the Calvin (ie John) view of things

According to John Calvin, predestination is God's unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be "barred from access to" salvation and sentenced to "eternal death.
You seem to have a problem with the biblical teaching of judgement and hell.
If you were lost, was that before God Predestined you?
Before He predestined me?
Are you sure you understand predestination?
Do you believe that there is a doctrine of predestination?
God predestined me to salvation. He saved me at a time He appointed
Who determines who the reprobate are?
God?
WHY?
Read Romans.
He says why.
You seem to be one of those who explain "How can He still find fault"

If He made each and every one why send some to eternal death? It is said he predetermined this..... WHY?
Don't you know?
Read Romans.
If we are predetermined to faith/salvation then we don't have to consciously believe in faith... So why the ones who are damned?
Who is we?
Do you suppose those in the world could care if they are predestined or not?
They do not understand spiritual truths.
I did not before God opened my heart and mind to understand spiritual truths.
FYI... From the time I could understand things as a tot I had faith in Jesus that I was saved. I never had a "come to Jesus" moment... just a thirst to learn all I could about him. But that was as an adult.
Happy to hear that.
 
Sorry you don't think that believing is a gift as the Scriptures state (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).
Faith IS a gift, but only the new man has that ability, power, authority, etc.

But, we still live in a body of sin and death, and our faith is at best mixed with unbelief. Consider all those in Hebrews 11; everyone of them had sin mixed with their faith, a faith they could not even have apart from being born of God, yet still they show themselves children of flesh and blood, even those they had the gift of faith given to them, so that they could believe.

Our faith can grow, or not grow based upon us being diligent and taking heed to ourselves. There are different degrees of faith even among God's children~some are babe, young men; some are fathers, and mothers in the faith. No man's faith can be perfect, only one was, and we all live unto God by his faith, that is~ the new man within us that Christ secured for us is the only means of our faith in God, apart from Christ, no man would have faith in God.


Galatians 2:20~"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Oh yes, I believe that faith, repentance are free gifts, that Jesus Christ secured for us who believe.
 
Who determines who the reprobate are?
God?
WHY?
Everyone born is a reprobate. We don't become reprobate. That is what we are. God determines to save some but not all from this condition. And right there is where many begin to talk back to God, without a tremble or fear at all.

Understand the fall and how far we fell and how holy is the One we fell from, and you may begin to understand these things. We are reprobate by being born in Adam, the first sinner. That is who we are as humans. Understand these things and you will gain a profound understanding of exactly what Jesus did for us. As in Adam all sin and through Adam sin came to all. Romans. In the second Adam, Christ, many are brought to eternal life.
 
Faith IS a gift, but only the new man has that ability, power, authority, etc.
But, we still live in a body of sin and death, and our faith is at best mixed with unbelief. Consider all those in Hebrews 11; everyone of them had sin mixed with their faith, a faith they could not even have apart from being born of God,
There is counterfeit faith apart from God (Mt 7:21-23).
True saving faith is a gift of God, it is not a work of man.
 
There is counterfeit faith apart from God (Mt 7:21-23).
Greetings Eleanor,

I fully understand that majority of the world since Christ have had a counterfeit faith, men who think they have done many wonderful works for God~besides though who were hoping if there was a God then he would accept me for just going through the motion of serving him, etc. But, we are not discussing this, and not sure why you even brought it up.

True saving faith is a gift of God, it is not a work of man.
Eleanor,

Dear sister, you speak of true saving faith, and it is not a work of man, to this I say Amen. Neither does it come from us at any point in our most holy, spiritual moment. Neither does God channel legal justification through us when we first believe, which most likely is when our faith is at its lowest point in our life, because we all gown in grace and in knowledge of the truth, thereby, our faith increases as we grow. Eleanor, there is only one righteous person who had prefect faith as the Son of man:
It is HIS FAITH and OBEDIENCE that justifies all that have, do, and will believe. We look to Christ's as our surety before the law of God, not to our faith, which does have many practical benefits, but no saving virtue in a legal sense, impossible.

Eleanor, every man at his very best state is vanity, yea, lighter than vanity !


This is not speaking of some men, but all men~Even at regeneration, God leave the God man ( Adam ) alone, He creates a new man, after the image of His Son~this man then has the power to see, hear, and believe. My question to you would be this: Where does your theory of true saving faith come into play? I'll answer this for you~It does not! Eleanor, we are justified legally by Christ's alone, without any works from man...his repentance, his confession, his baptism all all the results of being given life freely on the behalf of Jesus Christ, I do not know how to make this any plainer than I'm doing.

Now, this being said, I will say this..... we are justified by faith in our conscience upon believing and even thsi may take time, to fully sink in.
Upon hearing the scriptures the medium through which God has given for us to know the truth of the gospel~as we hear and as we believe what we hear, our faith is increase and as it does, THAT FAITH ever so imperfect, help us to see our free justification that we have by grace through Christ~and this brings PEACE, JOY, COMFORT to our soul/consciences, etc. We wee through the eyes of faith that Christ was given by God to be our surety, to do for us what we could not do in the flesh~that is..... live in perfect obedience to God's law in thoughts, words, and deeds, and THROUGH HIM we are legally justified by his life, death and resurrection.

Dear soul, there is only one saving faith, in a legal sense, and that's Christ's, the crown of glory belongs on his head, not ours. Selah.
 
Everyone born is a reprobate.
Only by nature are we children of wrath, but not reprobate~even though children of wrath by nature, God STILL LOVED US while so, he didn't love the reprobates.
Yes, Even when we were DEAD IN SINS! God loved his elect. Never been a reprobate, he has viewed his elect IN CHRIST from all eternity and will world without end.
 
@Arial
Arial said:
Everyone born is a reprobate.

I disagree, the elect aren't ever reprobate, but by nature they qualify to be Eph 2:3. To be reprobate is to be finally rejected of the Lord, however even when the elect are enemies, they have been accepted in the Beloved Eph 1:6 and they have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ Rom 5:10
 
@Arial


I disagree, the elect aren't ever reprobate, but by nature they qualify to be Eph 2:3. To be reprobate is to be finally rejected of the Lord, however even when the elect are enemies, they have been accepted in the Beloved Eph 1:6 and they have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ Rom 5:10
I will concede. I was looking at it as a sinner by nature. Children of wrath.
@Red Baker
 
Greetings Eleanor,

I fully understand that majority of the world since Christ have had a counterfeit faith, men who think they have done many wonderful works for God~besides though who were hoping if there was a God then he would accept me for just going through the motion of serving him, etc. But, we are not discussing this, and not sure why you even brought it up.


Eleanor,

Dear sister, you speak of true saving faith, and it is not a work of man, to this I say Amen. Neither does it come from us at any point in our most holy, spiritual moment. Neither does God channel legal justification through us when we first believe, which most likely is when our faith is at its lowest point in our life, because we all gown in grace and in knowledge of the truth, thereby, our faith increases as we grow. Eleanor, there is only one righteous person who had prefect faith as the Son of man:

It is HIS FAITH and OBEDIENCE that justifies all that have, do, and will believe. We look to Christ's as our surety before the law of God, not to our faith, which does have many practical benefits, but no saving virtue in a legal sense, impossible.

Eleanor, every man at his very best state is vanity, yea, lighter than vanity !




This is not speaking of some men, but all men~Even at regeneration, God leave the God man ( Adam ) alone, He creates a new man, after the image of His Son~this man then has the power to see, hear, and believe. My question to you would be this: Where does your theory of true saving faith come into play? I'll answer this for you~It does not! Eleanor, we are justified legally by Christ's alone, without any works from man...his repentance, his confession, his baptism all all the results of being given life freely on the behalf of Jesus Christ, I do not know how to make this any plainer than I'm doing.

Now, this being said, I will say this..... we are justified by faith in our conscience upon believing and even thsi may take time, to fully sink in.

Upon hearing the scriptures the medium through which God has given for us to know the truth of the gospel~as we hear and as we believe what we hear, our faith is increase and as it does, THAT FAITH ever so imperfect, help us to see our free justification that we have by grace through Christ~and this brings PEACE, JOY, COMFORT to our soul/consciences, etc. We wee through the eyes of faith that Christ was given by God to be our surety, to do for us what we could not do in the flesh~that is..... live in perfect obedience to God's law in thoughts, words, and deeds, and THROUGH HIM we are legally justified by his life, death and resurrection.

Dear soul, there is only one saving faith, in a legal sense, and that's Christ's, the crown of glory belongs on his head, not ours. Selah.
Good Morning Red,

I am aware you have addressed this to Eleanor but I have one question that I do not think I have ever heard your opinion on.

You say... " Neither does God channel legal justification through us when we first believe, which most likely is when our faith is at its lowest point in our life, because we all gown in grace and in knowledge of the truth, thereby, our faith increases as we grow. Eleanor, there is only one righteous person who had prefect faith as the Son of man:"

What do you say about those who do come to believe BUT do not grow in grace and knowledge.

I can see people growing in grace as that is a gift from God.... and he will bestow His grace on anyone He chooses to.

But knowledge of truth???? Is that not something one seeks? Whether God draws you to seek it out, or by personal choice....

I have known many people in my life who believe or have believed but never had the interest to learn more. What about them?
Is their faith flat, or God forbid, dead?

So, if our knowledge of truth does not increase, and our faith does not increase... What then?
 
I will concede. I was looking at it as a sinner by nature. Children of wrath.
@Red Baker
Brother~I heard a man that I had much respect said the same thing using the same scriptures, but he was not as gracious as you show yourself to be, he did not take a gracious rebuke very well, I can only imagine how he would have taken a much if I had come at him a little stronger.

Such a spirit you show only means greater light for you will be given by the Spirit of God, who is our teacher of spiritual truths
 
Good Morning Red, What do you say about those who do come to believe BUT do not grow in grace and knowledge.
Good morning to you~I assume you mean people like........let say.....Lot?

I would say, they lose out on so many spiritual blessings that comes through our obedience to the scriptures. Peace, joy, contentment, hope, and so many more~not to mention spiritual understand of biblical truths could be withheld from them. Look at the seven churches of Revelation and consider which one would you want to be known by? A Carnal minded believer may very well end up losing his children to the world, not to mention making his life very hard, when it could have been totally different~Read Proverbs for help. We make our life much easier by taking heed to our ways and submitting ourselves unto the wisdom found in the scriptures.
But knowledge of truth???? Is that not something one seeks?
Yes.

Proverbs 15:14~The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.​


Wise men love learning and crave knowledge, but fools love amusing themselves with folly. A man of understanding is not content with his knowledge; he wants more. But a fool never considers his ignorance; he happily continues to talk through his foolish life.

If you hear both talk, the wise man says little, knowing his knowledge is limited; the fool, knowing nothing, belches nonsense, declaring to all that he is a fool (Eccl 10:3,12-14). We should ask ourselves~ how is it with us? Do we want to learn? Or do we want to talk? Let the apostle James remind us to be swift to hear and slow to speak (Jas 1:19).

Solomon made the contrast clear, “Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom. A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself” (Pr 18:1-2). We should ask ourselves: Is our desire for knowledge so great, we organize life accordingly? Does pursuing wisdom get top priority in our life? Or do we use life to tell others what our heart has imagined?

Our character is visible. If we seek knowledge, we will read the Bible, love preaching, associate with wise men, and avoid folly in every form. If we are an ignorant fool, we will emphasize business, health, hobbies, amusement, and chitchat. Which do we prefer? The Bible or our favorite newsletter? Preaching or pleasure? Or is preaching a pleasure? Do we believe we know a lot? Or do we crave knowing more? The differences are great!

Cornelius wanted truth. He gathered family and friends to hear Peter (Ac 10:24). God told him that Peter could teach him the truth, so he said to Peter, “Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God” (Ac 10:33).
I have known many people in my life who believe or have believed but never had the interest to learn more. What about them?
Is their faith flat, or God forbid, dead?
I'm not their judge. But, I would never feel comfortable leaving this with only a profession and no fruits. Having no fruits to very little fruits is a big difference than those who boast of one's gifts of the Spirit while living in sin and preaching another gospel. God will divide the sheep from the goats in that day.
I have known many people in my life who believe or have believed but never had the interest to learn more. What about them?
Is their faith flat, or God forbid, dead?
Again, I'm not God, God knows those that are his, I can at best only be persuaded~as Paul was of Timothy.

2 Timothy 1:5~“When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.”​

 
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Good morning to you~I assume you mean people like........let say.....Lot?

I would say, they lose out on so many spiritual blessings that comes through our obedience to the scriptures. Peace, joy, contentment, hope, and so many more~not to mention spiritual understand of biblical truths could be withheld from them. Look at the seven churches of Revelation and consider which one would you want to be known by? A Carnal minded believer may very well end up losing his children to the world, not to mention making his life very hard, when it could have been totally different~Read Proverbs for help. We make our life much easier by taking heed to our ways and submitting ourselves unto the wisdom found in the scriptures.

Yes.

Proverbs 15:14~The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.​


Wise men love learning and crave knowledge, but fools love amusing themselves with folly. A man of understanding is not content with his knowledge; he wants more. But a fool never considers his ignorance; he happily continues to talk through his foolish life.

If you hear both talk, the wise man says little, knowing his knowledge is limited; the fool, knowing nothing, belches nonsense, declaring to all that he is a fool (Eccl 10:3,12-14). We should ask ourselves~ how is it with us? Do we want to learn? Or do we want to talk? Let the apostle James remind us to be swift to hear and slow to speak (Jas 1:19).

Solomon made the contrast clear, “Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom. A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself” (Pr 18:1-2). We should ask ourselves: Is our desire for knowledge so great, we organize life accordingly? Does pursuing wisdom get top priority in our life? Or do we use life to tell others what our heart has imagined?

Our character is visible. If we seek knowledge, we will read the Bible, love preaching, associate with wise men, and avoid folly in every form. If we are an ignorant fool, we will emphasize business, health, hobbies, amusement, and chitchat. Which do we prefer? The Bible or our favorite newsletter? Preaching or pleasure? Or is preaching a pleasure? Do we believe we know a lot? Or do we crave knowing more? The differences are great!

Cornelius wanted truth. He gathered family and friends to hear Peter (Ac 10:24). God told him that Peter could teach him the truth, so he said to Peter, “Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God” (Ac 10:33).

I'm not their judge. But, I would never feel comfortable leaving this with only a profession and no fruits. Having no fruits to very little fruits is a big difference than those who boast of one's gifts of the Spirit while living in sin and preaching another gospel. God will divide the sheep from the goats in that day.

Again, I'm not God, God knows those that are his, I can at best only be persuaded~as Paul was of Timothy.

2 Timothy 1:5~“When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.”​

Thanks Red....
 
Greetings Eleanor,

I fully understand that majority of the world since Christ have had a counterfeit faith, men who think they have done many wonderful works for God~besides though who were hoping if there was a God then he would accept me for just going through the motion of serving him, etc. But, we are not discussing this, and not sure why you even brought it up.
Eleanor,
Dear sister, you speak of true saving faith, and it is not a work of man, to this I say Amen. Neither does it come from us at any point in our most holy, spiritual moment. Neither does God channel legal justification through us when we first believe, which most likely is when our faith is at its lowest point in our life, because we all gown in grace and in knowledge of the truth, thereby, our faith increases as we grow. Eleanor, there is only one righteous person who had prefect faith as the Son of man:
Thanks, brother, but yours is not orthodox Christianity.

Jesus never spoke of his having faith, nor do any of the other NT writers speak of his faith.
We have no authority for assuming Jesus had faith when he himself was God (In 1:1, 14).
We have no Biblical warrant for the divine Son of God having faith.

Likewise, the NT is replete with doctrine regarding faith in the born again.
 
Thanks, brother, but yours is not orthodox Christianity.

Jesus never spoke of his having faith, nor do any of the other NT writers speak of his faith.
We have no authority for assuming Jesus had faith when he himself was God (In 1:1, 14).
We have no Biblical warrant for the divine Son of God having faith.

Likewise, the NT is replete with doctrine regarding faith in the born again.
Did Jesus keep the Law of God ? Could that be done without having Faith in God ?

Is He the Author of Faith ? Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Didnt He Trust in God ? Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

The word trust is the greek word peithō:
  1. be persuaded
    1. to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing
      1. to believe
      2. to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person
    2. to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with
  2. to trust, have confidence, be confident
 
Thanks, brother, but yours is not orthodox Christianity.

Jesus never spoke of his having faith, nor do any of the other NT writers speak of his faith.
We have no authority for assuming Jesus had faith when he himself was God (In 1:1, 14).
We have no Biblical warrant for the divine Son of God having faith.

Likewise, the NT is replete with doctrine regarding faith in the born again.
Jesus as Son of man did have faith. But it is not His faith that saves us, but our faith in Him.
 
The Bible speaks of justification by faith alone in only one place, namely James 2:24; and there James declares that justification is not by faith alone.
Two places...

Romans 3:28 NASB
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

'apart from works' would be alone, unless you want to count the works of Jesus.
IOW, what would one add to faith?
 
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