Jesus, peter, keys matt 16

[JustTheFacts]

{.This post was moved to its own OP in "Miscellaneous"}

 

[JustTheFacts]

Jesus claimed to be this prophesied Messiah and ruler:

25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming, he who is called Christ. When he has come, he will declare to us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.” (John 4:25-26)

Jesus explained the relationship between the OT prophets and himself:

“Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17)

“But all this has happened that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled. (Matthew 26:56)

Jesus DID NOT come to destroy or replace the words of the OT prophets he came to fulfill them. Moses and the OT Prophets predicted a Messiah from God and Jesus stated he fulfilled that prophecy.

With the following words, Jesus again validated the words of Moses who prophesied Jesus to be the word of God because they predicted his arrival and mission:

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.” (John 5:46)

Jesus stated he was the Messiah and his words as the word of God are to be believed and followed. Since Jesus spoke for God, Moses also spoke for God and MUST be believed. Taking that one step further, the OT prophet who also prophesied Jesus are to be believed because their words came from God. Moses recorded in his book that God told him any prophet who predicted the Messiah has spoken for God:

20 But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?” When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

For a prophet to be from God two things must happen; they must predict the Messiah, and their predictions MUST come true. If either one fails to happen, the prophets were not from God. Prophets who are not from God will die, which also means that true prophets from God will live. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and through his transfiguration event where Moses and Elijah appeared alive with Jesus (Mark 9:2-8) he proved that OT prophets who predicted him will live.

If Jesus is not the Messiah, then “the thing” has not yet happened and all the OT prophets are yet to be proven to have spoken for God. However, if Jesus is the Messiah than those who predicted “the thing” are from God and spoke the word of God. Since Jesus has claimed to be the Messiah and he appeared with two OT prophets, he has validated the words of Moses and the prophets to be the word of God.

{This post was moved to its own OP in "Miscellaneous" (link)}

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Do you accept Sola Scriptura?

The Bible very clearly defines the word of God and I follow that full-heartedly. The Bible also contains the inerrant inspired and complete word of God without error. But consider the issue I brought up about Matthew 16:18-19 and Peter walking on water in the Matthew account. A forensic analysis of that documentation proves that Matthew's author copied those accounts from Mark's author then the account in Matthew was edited. This is what my five-year analysis and fraud investigation of Jesus has found. Can the Bible be fully without error then? There are numerous other contradictions and errors but when separated out, the story of Jesus becomes rock solid.

I've brought up details that can end the Protestant/Catholic debate with the undisputable truth. FYI, with the Holy Spirit's help I've also solved the "seventy sevens" of Daniel 9:24-27 and the the math puzzle of prophecy. You have a decision to make--are you going to kick me off--an expert analyst and former Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) Manager of Fraud Investigations, or are you interested in digging in deep and understanding the truth? The truth is really cool because without theology, Jesus is proven to be the Messiah and God per the requirements God provided us in the Law.

That may demonstrate your attitude toward Scripture, but it doesn't answer my question.

I well know there are errors —that would be off topic to continue to discuss. That wasn't the question.

If you would like to start a thread on the subject please feel free.

 

[makesends]

Yes Jesus as the Messiah is theology--unless evidence proves it. Then it becomes factual. God provided specific requirements to prove a matter and Jesus is the matter being proven (Deuteronomy 17:6 and 19:15).

God is a God of miracles and evidence. Do you think God would give us the requirements through the Law, then send Jesus and not fulfill the Law? God ensured that there would be two or three eyewitnesses to validate and verify Jesus. The apostles were not witnesses but the disciples were. The apostles cannot prove Jesus according to God's Law.

I mentioned my credentials twice. LANL is internationally recognized as one of the premier R&D facilities in the world. People in the religion business love to tout their letters after their name, but in my business letters after the name are worthless--it's results that matter.

Jesus very clearly told us who we could trust to speak the word of God:

“For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure.” (John 3:34)

“For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50)

“He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)

Jesus stated we can trust his words as the word of God. The first and primary source of the word of God in the Bible is Jesus himself. Jesus claimed that God sent him to the world and gave him the words that he spoke. Very clearly Jesus stated that his words came from God whom he referred to as his Father.

But then Jesus went past claiming that God was his Father, he told the world that he and God were equals:

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Jesus stated that his words came from God because he IS God. Jesus also described his words as having power that could only come from God:

“Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24)

“Most certainly, I tell you, if a person keeps my word, he will never see death.” (John 8:51)

Only God can judge the dead and promise eternal life and Jesus stated that those who hear his words and follow them will not be judged and they “will never see death.” With this as a starting point, there is no doubt that the words of Jesus are stated in the Gospels to be the word of God.

Jesus also validated the words of Moses as the word of God. Jesus healed a leper then said to him:

“See that you say nothing to anybody, but go show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing the things which Moses commanded, for a testimony to them.” (Mark 1:44)

Jesus told the healed leper to testify to the religious leaders in accordance with Moses’ commands. Jesus, as God, healed a man then commanded him to follow the Law of Moses indicating that the Law of Moses came from God. Jesus also referenced miracles documented by Moses to validate that God was with Moses:

“But about the dead, that they are raised, haven’t you read in the book of Moses about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?” (Mark 12:26)

Jesus referred to the “scriptures” (Mark 12:24) then connected God’s gift of eternal life and miracles to the “book of Moses.” God’s appearance to Moses in the burning bush was Moses introduction to God—the first miracle in his life that he recorded. There were many more recorded after this.

We also find that Jesus used words from the “book of Moses” to prove himself to be God:

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: I AM has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3:14 –WEB)

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.” (John 8:58)

Moses wrote that in that burning bush God described himself as “I AM.” Jesus used this reference to claim that he was the same as the God who spoke to Moses. There can be no doubt that the evidence proves Jesus endorsed the words of Moses to be the word of God.

Several verses in the book of Moses—the first five books in the Bible that are also referred to as the “Law,” “Hebrew Torah,” or “Pentateuch,” are interpreted to predict a future Messiah. The most referenced prophecy verses include Genesis 3:15, 22:18, 49:10, Numbers 24:17, and the following:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

Moses did not mention Jesus by name, but Moses prophesied a specific future prophet who will come and speak for God. This prophet who is referred to as a Messiah will have authority over men and women because God WILL REQUIRE the words of the Messiah to be listened to—the Messiah will be a ruler. God will require ALL to listen to the Messiah even if they don’t want to listen—in other words there will be a penalty for those who reject the Messiah.

Not only did Moses prophecy the future Messiah, but many other OT prophets did too. For example, some of them include the following:

• Isaiah 7:14 – from the house of David, “the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Matthew 1:18-23)
• Micah 5:2 – “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, being small among the clans of Judah, out of you one will come out to me that is to be the ruler in Israel” (Matthew 2:1)
• Zechariah 12:10 – “I will pour on David’s house, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication, and they will look to me, whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn.” (John 19:34-37)
• Hosea 11:1 – “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13-15)
• Psalm 22:18 – “They divide my garments among them. They cast lost for my clothing.” (John 19:23-24)
• Malachi 3:1 – “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!” says Yahweh of Armies. (Matthew 11:4-10)

This list is not all-inclusive because there are other OT prophets who also prophesied the Messiah.

Do you claim to be a prophet?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Do you claim to be a prophet?

Have I predicted the future Messiah? I think the requirements are pretty clear and speak for themselves.

makesends said:
Do you accept Sola Scriptura?

That may demonstrate your attitude toward Scripture, but it doesn't answer my question.

I well know there are errors —that would be off topic to continue to discuss. That wasn't the question.

If you would like to start a thread on the subject please feel free.

I don't have an "attitude toward Scripture," I follow the evidence. God clearly specified what is considered to be the word of God. I find nothing in the Bible that supports the words of Paul as the word of God. So in answer to your question, No I don't accept Sola Scriptura. The word of God in the Bible is inerrant, complete, and without error, but the Bible cannot be considered to be.

 

[Arial]

Before moving on consider the New Testament (NT) contents and compare it to the word of God proven through the Law of God documented in Deuteronomy. The NT in the Christian Bible presents the words of Paul (thirteen letters) and other anonymous/unidentified authors (Hebrews, Jude, and James) and two disciples (John and Peter) as the word of God. But none of those authors, with the possible exception of John who received Revelation, are prophets who prophesied Jesus. The words of Paul and the authors of NT letters do not meet the criteria God provided to be able to speak the word of God, yet that what is believed and taught.

Many religious leaders claim theology that the Bible is the inherent and infallible word of God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit to speak and write it. But how can that be because what they claim contradicts what is written in the Law presented in the Bible? There is a major contradiction between religious leader theology and the word of God. My attempts to get even one Christian religious leader to acknowledge and address this contradiction has been unsuccessful.

The NT letter authors aren’t Jesus, Moses, or OT prophets who prophesied Jesus, so where did their authority to speak for God come from? The answer provided by religious leaders is that their authority to speak for God came from themselves. Bible references commonly used to validate the Bible NT as the inspired word of God with no errors are 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (Paul); Hebrews 4:12 (Unknown and anonymous). Paul and an unknown author cannot validate themselves to speak for God.

Mod HAT: The title of this OP is Jesus,Peter, Keys Matt 16. It was started in Sept of last year by a Catholic to debate against Protestants and the member is no longer here. That is no reason to hijack the thread and completely change the subject. I will give you a 24 hr. window to move this post to its own thread so it can be discussed without derailing the thread. I only do this because there is much in it that needs to be refuted. After that it will be deleted.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Mod HAT: The title of this OP is Jesus,Peter, Keys Matt 16. It was started in Sept of last year by a Catholic to debate against Protestants and the member is no longer here. That is no reason to hijack the thread and completely change the subject. I will give you a 24 hr. window to move this post to its own thread so it can be discussed without derailing the thread. I only do this because there is much in it that needs to be refuted. After that it will be deleted.

I'm new here so sorry to impose and I look forward to the refuting comments. Where do you suggest I place it?

 

[Arial]

Yes Jesus as the Messiah is theology--unless evidence proves it.

It is still theology. Are you confusing doctrine and theology?

God is a God of miracles and evidence. Do you think God would give us the requirements through the Law, then send Jesus and not fulfill the Law?

Where did I ever say Jesus did not fulfill the Law?

I mentioned my credentials twice. LANL is internationally recognized as one of the premier R&D facilities in the world. People in the religion business love to tout their letters after their name, but in my business letters after the name are worthless--it's results that matter.

Letters behind a name are always worthless. They don't make a person wise and they are a guarantee of nothing, and are no measure of intelligence or of the man.

This list is not all-inclusive because there are other OT prophets who also prophesied the Messiah.

As I have said before, start your own thread, don't take over someone else's for your own purposes.

4.3. Stay on topic and avoid derailing or hijacking the thread. When engaging in a discussion, keep responses relevant to the original post. Do not divert the conversation to unrelated matters, introduce personal grievances, or use the thread as an opportunity to push an unrelated agenda. Engaging in discussions with the intent to stir up controversy, bait others into arguments, or introduce unrelated topics just disrupts meaningful dialogue. Stay on topic and contribute in a way that adds value to the conversation, not detracts from it. If you have a different subject to discuss, start a new thread in the appropriate forum rather than disrupting an existing one.

 

[Arial]

I'm new here so sorry to impose and I look forward to the refuting comments. Where do you suggest I place it?

Miscellaneous. It doesn't exactly fit in any of the specific categories.

 

[JustTheFacts]

It is still theology. Are you confusing doctrine and theology?

From the Merriam Webster:
1. the study of religious faith, practice, and experience
especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2. a theological theory or system
b distinctive body of theological opinion

If there is evidence proving Jesus as the Messiah and God, there is no need for study and Jesus is not theory or opinion--he is proven through evidence which BTW, was God's intention.

As I have said before, start your own thread, don't take over someone else's for your own purposes.

From what I recall, the post started out with Matthew, then there were questions so I tried to answer them....like the theology issue you have brought up.

 

[Carbon]

FYI, with the Holy Spirit's help I've also solved the "seventy sevens" of Daniel 9:24-27

I'd love to hear it.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I'd love to hear it.

If you are really interested I'll start another thread. Where do you want it? I'd love to get feedback on it.

 

[Carbon]

If you are really interested I'll start another thread. Where do you want it? I'd love to get feedback on it.

Eschotology