Jesus, peter, keys matt 16

[Carbon]

What do the keys represent?

Thks

The keys are symbols of authority, and this authority is legislative in nature. The Lord Jesus, as the Lord of the Church, has such authorty over her. And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens. Rev 3:7.

This authority is also one of administration and is used as such upon the command and on behalf of the Lord Jesus. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. Isaiah 22:22.

Thus, the church has power either to include in or exclude from the church.

 

[Carbon]

Which faith, as we know, is not generated by Peter, nor by the Church, but by God himself. (Eph 2)

Amen!

Flesh and blood did not reveal it to him.

 

[Carbon]

Amen that.

After all the protests and retorts, in the end, the question is whom does Christ say he is, and whom do the apostles say he is, and whom does Scripture say he is.

Too many places to be argued away, Old Testament and New. Further, as CS Lewis shows, if Jesus Christ is not God himself, then he is a madman or a liar. The one thing he cannot be is a mere great man. (Nor, I add, an angel).

The fact that logic demands that only God can take the place of sinners, is not of itself sufficient —that is, it deals in matters too deep for us, though we can see that it must be so. But the witness of Scripture, and of the Spirit of God within us, and the relationship so full of worship, places him as no other, but God.

It is a terrible blindness indeed until God opens the eyes of the lost.

And it is by grace alone.

 

[Carbon]

What do the keys represent?

Thks

Don, in case you didn't know, there are two keys. Which are the word of God and Christian discipline.

The first key is the proclamation of the Word of God. The Lord has given this Word to the church and has authorized His servants to proclaim it in His name. The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” Luke 10:16.
(Don, nothing about a pope. Have you noticed?)
And because of the authority, they proclaim to believers the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36.
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”Acts 16:31.

With this same authority, they close the kingdom of heaven for unbelievers and the unconverted; that is, as long as they remain in such a condition and do not repent. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, Romans 2:9.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36.

 

[Carbon]

What do the keys represent?

Thks

The second key is: Christian discipline. This has been given to the church as an administrative power to close the kingdom of heaven to those who give offense and are ungodly, and to open it again to those who repent concerning their former life, promise reformation of life, and confirm this with their deeds. Neither Jews, heathens or those outside the church are subject to the use of this key, but only members of the church who give offence, be it that they are only baptized or that they have been admitted to the Lord's Supper. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”1 Cor 5:12-13.

Those who are within the church are subject to Christian discipline if they go astray in either doctrine of life and persevere in their sin after having often been warned. God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” 1Cor 5:13.

 

[Carbon]

Was Peter declared blessed simply cos he received revelation?
JTB received revelation in Lk 3:2 and not declared blessed

Thks

But what do you mean by blessed?

 

[Carbon]

Only Christ is judge and can judge a popes personal sin

The pope is not a god. There will come a day when you will regret many things, Don. Repent while you still have time.

 

[Carbon]

My goof, I thought Peter was the first Pope. Guess I was wrong.

Well, we cant be right about everything.

 

[Carbon]

What does pope mean?

papa.

Well according to your church anyway.

 

[Carbon]

Matt 16:17-19
Why is Peter even mentioned?
Why does Jesus change His name?
Why does Jesus say Peter is blessed?
Why does Jesus give Peter the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority)
Why does Jesus give Peter power to bind and loose?
Why does scripture say God chose Peter? Acts 15:7
What does Peter standing up signify? Acts 1:15 & 15:7

Peter’s person blessed not a confession of faith!
Peter’s person received the keys not a confession of faith!

God always establishes peace and order in his kingdom by obedience to the fathers in hierarchical authority!

Do Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, in acts 5 believe it is a confession of faith that has authority or peter?

Why do you transfer all of God's authority over to men?

 

[Carbon]

More here than meets the eye!

Matt 16:15-19

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

How is it that Peter is operating as a mediator between the Father (God) and the apostles (men) with Jesus approving? Why is Peter allowed to act as mediator?

Matt 17:24-27

24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Jesus identifies Himself with Peter!
Why only Jesus & Peter?
Why not all the apostles if they are equal with peter?

Here Peter acts as mediator between men & God! (Jesus Christ)

Again Peter is allowed by Christ to act as mediator?

Is Peter being prepared to act for Christ is His church when Christ ascends to heaven?


Not peters confession of faith but Gods, the Father’s revelation about Christ!

Peter is only the mouthpiece of the Father, to bring truth to the apostles!

Apostolic church is the mouthpiece
Truth to the nations!

God chose Peter! Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago (referring to matt 16:18) God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Again Peter acting as mediator between God and men and is the teacher who acts in union with Christ our teacher. Heb 1:1-3

Why does the father teach the apostles thru Peter when christ is right there?

Christ defers unto peter to be the minister of this truth, why?

Christ is establishing peter the head and chief minister of His church!

Apostles learn the true faith from God thru Peter!

Jn 21:15-17

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Again Peter is united with Christ acting as mediator between God and men as Christ’s personal representative at Christ’s command!

Your insights are welcome!

Oh, you miss such a great amount of truth.

 

[Mr GLee]

never said worship

worship requires the intent to worship

Hi Don, words have meanings attached to them and a law that warns us of those who would change the meaning of one word to fit their earthly purposes

What is your attention for worshiping a queen of heaven named after our blessed sister in the Lord, Mary??

Worship or what you must call venerating. puffing up in false pride "who is the greatest. . . top dog? .

Worshipping dying mankind (apostles) above that which is written (sola scriptura) ??????? Lording it over the understanding or faith of the non-venerable. . Blasphemy no light of sola scriptura.

1 Corinthians 4:6-7And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men (apostles) above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
For who (the Pope?) maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Who makes you differ from other men? The Pope (daysman)? The queen from heaven??

 

[makesends]

The keys are symbols of authority, and this authority is legislative in nature. The Lord Jesus, as the Lord of the Church, has such authorty over her. And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens. Rev 3:7.

This authority is also one of administration and is used as such upon the command and on behalf of the Lord Jesus. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. Isaiah 22:22.

Thus, the church has power either to include in or exclude from the church.

This does not, however imply that the church has the power to induce God to elect anybody into the Body of Christ.

The closest I can find reasonable here, is the idea of 'we do so because it is so'. The case can be made that someone or ones may be sure that someone is going to become a member of the Body of Christ, and to pray accordingly, with assurance, and it will be that God saves that one. Also, blessing and cursings, perhaps, upon sects/cults and their leaders, and perhaps on towns (but that's stretching it). I have a dear friend for whom I pray and to whom I speak to as though I know he will, sooner or later, come to know God. Only God knows, but I do think he will be in Heaven. I'll introduce you! (If I even make it.)

To say that the church has the authority to remove someone from the local body goes without saying, and the implication that when they do so, that it will be done in heaven, should give them pause.

Off topic, perhaps: There suggests itself to my mind, here, that the very language we use may have something to do with the effectiveness of what we say. If we use the language of the unsaved, and, for example, call someone by their LGBT handle, WE may well be the ones 'keeping him out of Heaven'. When I read the New Testament lists of who will not see the Kingdom of Heaven, I'm careful to limit what I mean by "homosexual". If I accept 'the world's' current thought, then someone whether they truly were born with, or whether they developed the perverse sexual leaning, I don't call them 'homosexual' unless they engage in homosexuality, either in the act or in pursuit of the genre.

This also may give us to understand, in part, why the use of Creeds and Confessions —to govern our terminology, perhaps.

 

[Hazelelponi]

This also may give us to understand, in part, why the use of Creeds and Confessions —to govern our terminology, perhaps

This is my greatest weakness. I have a highly concept driven mind but I don't have the technical language.

 

[CherubRam]

I think we all agree that Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation and that this is another subject different than the rock upon which Christ builds His church. (No reference to the Catholic Church)

Is the rock upon which Christ builds His church the confession of Peter or the person of Peter?

Thanks

The Catholics altered the scriptures to make Peter appear as "The Rock." Yahshua want Peter to build the congregation upon Yahwah The Rock.

2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God of the living ones besides Yahwah? And who is The Rock except our God?

Yahwah is Yahshua's savior.

Psalm 89​

20. I have found David my servant;
with my sacred oil I have anointed him.
21. My hand will sustain him;
surely my arm will strengthen him.
22. The enemy will not get the better of him;
the wicked will not oppress him.
23. I will crush his foes before him
and strike down his adversaries.
24. My faithful love will be with him,
and through my name his horn will be exalted.
25. I will set his hand over the sea,
his right hand over the rivers.
26. He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,
my God, the Rock my Savior.’
27. And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

 

[CherubRam]

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am Yahwah, and apart from me there is no savior.

Hosea 13:4
“But I have been Yahwah your God of the living ones ever since you came out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior except me.

 

[1Thess521]

The Catholics altered the scriptures to make Peter appear as "The Rock." Yahshua want Peter to build the congregation upon Yahwah The Rock.

also the Catholic Church alter Scripture to make look as if God is not the "rock"

Psalm 18:31
"For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?—

Douay-Rheims
"For who is God but the Lord? or who is God but our God?"

the Vulgate Ps 17:31 (different versification)
"For who is God but the Lord? or who is God but our God?"

In the Hebrew; it is "rock"
hmmmmm

Shame on the Catholic Church

 

[CherubRam]

also the Catholic Church alter Scripture to make look as if God is not the "rock"

Psalm 18:31
"For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?—

Douay-Rheims
"For who is God but the Lord? or who is God but our God?"

the Vulgate Ps 17:31 (different versification)
"For who is God but the Lord? or who is God but our God?"

In the Hebrew; it is "rock"
hmmmmm

Shame on the Catholic Church

Scholars have removed the name of God from scriptures.

For some reason there are many Jews and Christians who believe God's name should not be seen or spoken.

I for one do not agree with that.

• 1 Chronicles 16:8
  Give praise to (the Lord / Yahwah,) proclaim his name; make known among the nations what he has done.
  
  
• Psalm 105:1
  Give praise to (the Lord / Yahwah,) proclaim his name; make known among the nations what he has done.
  
  
• Isaiah 12:4
  In that day you will say: “Give praise to (the Lord / Yahwah,) proclaim his name; make known among the nations what he has done, and proclaim that his name is exalted.

Yahweh is a misspelling. Yahuah is Yahwah in modern English.

Yahwah is the correct spelling for Modern English.

Christ real name is Yahshua. The name Jesus did not exist before the 15 hundreds.

 

[atpollard]

Yahweh is a misspelling. Yahuah is Yahwah in modern English.

Yahwah is the correct spelling for Modern English.

That is only a “sort of” … reality is that we only know the CONSONANTS for sure and have to guess at the VOWELS since they did not survive in Hebrew manuscripts (early manuscripts have no vowels and later manuscripts omit the vowels in something so holy as ‘YHVH’).

 

[CherubRam]

That is only a “sort of” … reality is that we only know the CONSONANTS for sure and have to guess at the VOWELS since they did not survive in Hebrew manuscripts (early manuscripts have no vowels and later manuscripts omit the vowels in something so holy as ‘YHVH’).

The V is a Germanic influence upon the Hebrew language. The e vowel was introduced between 600 AD and 1000 AD.

Note that the vowels are all " a."
יהוה Yahwah

The vowels are "a" in the Brown-Driver-Briggs, the NIV Exhaustive Concordance, and the Strong's Exhaustive Concordances.

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

After killing Hebrew Christians, the Jews would take the New Testament scripture written in Hebrew, and carefully cut the name of God out. Then they would place the divine name in a safe place to keep. Following that, they then would burn the remainder of the scrolls in a fire. Rabbi Yose who lived during the second century AD states that, "One cuts out the reference to the Divine Name which are in them [the New Testament writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns." One of his characteristic sayings is, "He who proclaimed the coming of the Messiah,[John] and he who hated scholars [Yahshua] and his disciples; and that false prophet and those slanderers, will have no part in the future world." According to Wilhelm Bacher this was directed against the Hebrew Christians. And so it is an established fact then, that the Disciples of Christ did in fact write the Holy Name of God into the original New Testament.

I come in the name of Yahwah.
Psalm 118:26
Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.) From the house of (the Lord / Yahwah) we bless you.

Matthew 23:39
For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.)’”

Luke 13:35
Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.)’”

Yahwah and Yahshua.

Aramaic spelling ישוע is for (Joshua / Yahshua)

The single initial Hebrew letter Yod stands for the short form of God's name Yah.

Because Hebrews dropped their 'ayins', to keep from saying God's name, hence we have "y'shua." Also spelled Yeshua, for which we have in Greek, "Iēsous" and "Isus." These are corruptions of the names that begin with "Yah."

Yah (Hebrew: יהּ‎‎ Yah) is a short form of Yahwah (in consonantal spelling YHWH Hebrew: יהוה‎‎, called the Tetragrammaton), the proper name of God in the Hebrew Bible. This short form of the name occurs 50 times in the text of the Hebrew Bible, of which 24 form part of the phrase "Halleluyah".

Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525,
when Sir William Tyndale a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England --- invented it!

Exodus 23:21
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”