It is by faith and good works that one confirms his calling and election.

[Ghada]

God is a God of order. And this is the order:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom. 2:8–10.

True. Those that contend with the doctrine of Christ, being either refusing to obey it, or by add their own rules to it, are not obeying the truth nor the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The former is lawlessness taught as grace of God, and the latter is self-righteousness taught as law of Christ.

The sword with two edges cuts off both from the body and churches of God in Christ.

I am saying that before we as Gentile believers begin to interpret Scripture without considering its original people and context will not fully understand the fulness of the Doctrines of Christ.

I am saying until we as Christians begin to interpret all prophecy with doctrine of Christ, we will err in all prophecy.

Many interpret OT prophecy and NT prophecy in Revelation as though the NT doctrine of Christ doesn't even exist.

It's not possible to believe the words of Jesus' gospel, and then say at any time He will only save a certain natural seed. That can only happen by trying to interpret prophecy without His doctrine.

The NT doctrine of Christ is now the key that unlocks the truth of all prophecy. It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets speaking prophecy (1 Peter 1), and is now the Spirit of Christ revealing prophecy by His doctrine.

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God:

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The Spirit of Christ now leads to the truth of all prophecy by means of His NT doctrine. The NT doctrine and gospel of Jesus Christ was not known before by the prophets, but only spoken of in glimpses of the light.

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The OT prophets and people of God could not possibly interpret the prophesies of God accurately, unil Christ came and His prophesied NT is now revealed, and is key to all prophetic interpretation.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

Now we have the full light of Christ to guide us in all prophecy of Scripture.

Saying the Lord returns to 'deal with the Jews only' for salvation and justification with God is common interpretation, that opposes the gospel of Jesus Christ It's the same kind of error the Jews made when He first came to the earth.

I am saying that before we as Gentile believers begin to interpret Scripture without considering its original people and context will not fully understand the fulness of the Doctrines of Christ.

I am saying until we as Christians begin to interpret all prophecy with doctrine of Christ, we will err in all prophecy.

Many interpret OT prophecy and NT prophecy in Revelation as though the NT doctrine of Christ doesn't even exist.

It's not possible to believe the words of Jesus' gospel, and then say at any time He will only save a certain natural seed. That can only happen by trying to interpret prophecy without the truth His gospel.

The NT doctrine of Christ is now the key that unlocks the truth of all prophecy. It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets speaking prophecy (1 Peter 1), and is now the Spirit of Christ revealing prophecy by His doctrine.

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God:

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The testimony of Jesus is His word of doctrine, by which the interpretation of prophecy is revealed through His Spirit.

Trying to interpret prophecy of Scripture without the key of NT doctrine, is the same partial blindness of the Jews before Christ came in the flesh. It's with less excuse now for Christians, because He has come in the flesh, and His apostles have written of His full light.

Conclusion: a frequent error of sincere Christians, is to try interpret old and new prophecy along with Revelation between themselves alone. They skip over and walk around the doctrine of Christ, whose testimony is the Spirit of prophecy.

 

[Ghada]

We cannot unmoor ourselves from the Laws and Commands of God to His Chosen people Israel.

Since we are His chosen people Israel, I agree. Though His laws and commandments are now given to His apostles in the NT, and not that of Moses in the OT.

There is no people nor nation after the flesh God's chosen people on earth today. That opposes the doctrine of Christ, that says there is neither Jew nor Greek in the Israel of God, that is now grafted into His green and holy olive tree.

After all, Christianity is Completed Judaism.

Once again: I see no Bible saying this about religions.

Christians are now complete in Christ, whether Jew or Greek.

Judaism of the Jews religion is now of unbelieving Jews in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:13-14) The same as Muslim religion of unbelieving Muslims. And there is also some Christian religion doing the same.

It is He God Promised to put in our inward parts as per Jeremiah 31:33-34.

It is the law of Christ, not of Moses, that is put into our hearts by the Spirit and circumcision of Christ.

Being that Christ fulfilled every jot and tittle with regard to the Law of God,

True. The law of God by Moses.

and that in our conversion the Holy Spirit is in our inward parts speaking to us from within those Laws and Commands God wrote on stone,

False. Those laws, statutes, services, and ministry of a worldly sanctuary (Heb 9), written on stone by Moses, are now nailed to the cross and done away by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (2 Cor 3) (Col 2)

If any of the law of Moses is also written into the law of Christ, then is now law of Christ for us to obey. (Matthew 13:52)

Thus, the Moral Laws still apply to the believer.

True. In the law of Christ written by His apostles in letters and books. Not the law of Moses written by Moses in tables of stone on the mount, and books in the tabernacle of the wilderness.

The Social Laws as well. There is nothing wrong with the Social Law(s) or any other aspect of dietary laws even though we live in the free western world society where we love our pizzas, hamburgers, and tacos.

We don't obey any law of Moses as unto Christ for justification with God. That is the old error of Judaizing the church and Israel of God.

We have liberty to follow such things by personal faith, if we so wish. Any person on earth and apply any religious rules of the OT they wish to, and it will benefit them.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

We just don't teach those things as law of Christ, unless the apostles wrote them as part of NT doctrine and law.

9 of the 10 commandments in Ex 20, are repeated by the apostles for Christians to keep.

 

[Ghada]

when God sees us, He sees us through the finished work of Christ and in this He sees us as also fulfilling every jot and tittle of His Law.

Not without doing it.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

All faith and doctrine is empty without doing the word.

This is the foundation of our justification.

Faith alone without works is the foundation of justification of another gospel.

The Bible says we are justified by works, and not by faith only.

God never see any good in a heart, that is doing unrighteous works of the flesh.

Christian non-condemnationalism is the religious version of secular non-judgemntalism.

"I know I still do bad things, but God knows my heart is still good". "I know I still sin, but God does not condemn me for it."

Having the Holy Spirit within us we still must obey the Law to not have other gods before us and not to take the Name of the Lord in vain and to not steal or commit murder.

The law of Christ, not of Moses. And not obeying His gospel law is not being justified by Him.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

The eternal salvation being reserved in heaven (1 Peter 1), is only for them that obey the Lord in the end.

The temporary salvation of man's faith alone ends in the grave.

And through the Holy Spirit who is the Holy Law of God He is within us to lead and guide our lives.

True. And so long as we continue to obey Him, He continues to lead and guide us into all truth and obedience to the truth. (John 16:13)

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

We have purified our souls in obedience to the Spirit, and we are to see to it, that we continue purifying our hearts by that same obedience to Him.

The first works of the Spirit we do are within our souls and hearts, to cast down any and all thoughts of temptation and unrighteousness from the devil. (2 Cor 10)

We must now do the same as Jesus did by obedience to the word of truth (Matthew 4). We now are given His power to first cleanse within the platter as He, in order to walk as He (Matthew 23)(1 John 2).

The word of God is quick, powerful, and a double-edged sword. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith are vain. These are the two outsides that Paul and James address.

God is a God of order. And this is the order:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom. 2:8–10.

True. Those that contend with the doctrine of Christ, either by disobedience or by adding their own rules to it, are not obeying the truth nor the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The former is lawlessness taught as grace of God, and the latter is self-righteousness taught as law of Christ.

The sword with two edges cuts off both from the body and churches of God in Christ...

 

[Ghada]

Ha. I wouldn't invite @Josheb to a challenge, if I were you. Just sayin'... Might've bit off more than you can chew!

Not really. Being corrected is good.

If someone sidesteps a challenge, no matter the reason, I just let it go.

 

[Josheb]

Since you agree, then it should be the same with you. If you don't want public challenges, the site has means of going private.

Keep the posts about the posts.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't read any Bible saying so.
The eternal principle of keeping God's commandments remains the same: obey God or not.
Adam and Eve lacked faith in the Lord, when the serpent accused God of being unjust in His commandment.
With works. Outward circumcision was part of the covenant with Abraham (Gen 17) and was called the covenant of circumcision. (Acts 7)

The Scripture was written to believers in Covenant with God.
It was NOT written to Gentiles.

Once again, I don't ready any Bible about a 'family' covenant.

The God of Abraham [father], Isaac [son], and Jacob [grandson].
And it went through the twelve tribes [sons] of Jacob [Israel.]

The covenant with the children of Israel foreshadowed the family of Christ. Not all children by flesh were Israel by faith and works. (Rom 9:6)

Only in the context that there were twelve natural/physical tribes of the children of Jacob [Israel], there are also twelve spiritual tribes of Israel [Jacob] and every believer belongs in one of them.
I happen to believe I belong to the spiritual tribe of Benjamin as Jeremiah and Paul (and others) were of the natural tribe of Benjamin.

Once again, I see no Bible for your assertions, other than opposing the Bible. Saying it is God's will at any time, that any man should perish, is not what the Bible teaches. (2 Peter 3)

This is your reference?

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any [of usward] should perish, but that all [of usward] should come to repentance. 2 Pe 3:9.

I italicized and underlined "usward." Do you know why? Because Peter is writing to believers ALREADY saved and in the body of Christ.

1 SIMON Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 2 Pe 1-2

The Scripture of both the Old and New are written to believers IN COVENANT with God. They are NOT written to unbelievers. So, the context of the "usward" are believers. THEY shall ALL come to repentance and salvation.

The minority chosen is always man's fault, not God's. God's always chooses them He can lead by faith.
Nothing in the Bible says God did not call any other person on earth. Abraham is the only one we read answering His call.

There is a long line of people God had relationship with, from Adam to Noah, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, etc.
Every person God had relationship with - even Nebuchadnezzar - was called of God. If anyone is chosen to approach unto God to worship (it's written as "then men began to call upon the LORD") and it means 'worship.'
And no one can worship God unless God calls them and chooses them.
Blessed is that man whom thou choosest and causes to approach unto thee, is what David said, right?
Psalm 65:4.

The era of the gospel of Jesus Christ never ceases. Jesus' gospel is the everlasting gospel (Rev 14), that never changes. (Matthew 24) Even as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday,and forever, so are the words of His everlasting gospel the same. It therefore will always be the whosoever gospel, without respect to natural child birth.

There has always been many 'good news' (gospel) in Scripture. The one about Jesus Christ is not the only one.
And there is no indication the "everlasting gospel" in Revelation is the one about the birth, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Then there is a gospel the two witnesses preach to Israel. Can you tell me what that's about?

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

An error of interpretation of prophecy, is mixing prophecy of land promises to Abraham's natural seed, and the gospel of salvation and justification for all believers on earth. The Lord returns to receive His own, which are His church. He does not return just to save a certain kind of unbeliever on earth.

Christ prepares His Chosen people Israel before He comes.
The Church is an extension of the Great Congregation in the wilderness at the time of the Tabernacle.
We are grafted in. To the "Jew" FIRST and also to the Greek/Gentile.
The whole of Scripture is "Jewish" in description and flavor. The New Testament was written to the "Jews" FIRST and it describes Israel's Messiah, not a Gentile Messiah.

The risen God of Israel never again deals with a natural lineage only first, much less only.

Not necessarily true.
The Times of the Gentiles will come to an end and God turns His attention back to Israel as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Only after He comes again to inherit all nations on earth, will the natural seed become relevant again. Not for salvation, but for land and special priestly service to the Lord on earth as prophesied in Ezekiel and with other prophets.

 

[jeremiah1five]

True. Those that contend with the doctrine of Christ, being either refusing to obey it, or by add their own rules to it, are not obeying the truth nor the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The former is lawlessness taught as grace of God, and the latter is self-righteousness taught as law of Christ.
The sword with two edges cuts off both from the body and churches of God in Christ.

It's also for defense AND offense.
But once saved no one is 'cut off.'
Everyone perseveres to the end. He is the Author AND Finisher of our faith.

I am saying until we as Christians begin to interpret all prophecy with doctrine of Christ, we will err in all prophecy.
Many interpret OT prophecy and NT prophecy in Revelation as though the NT doctrine of Christ doesn't even exist.
It's not possible to believe the words of Jesus' gospel, and then say at any time He will only save a certain natural seed. That can only happen by trying to interpret prophecy without His doctrine.

Just as there was a natural seed in Covenant there is also a spiritual seed to which every believer belongs.

The NT doctrine of Christ is now the key that unlocks the truth of all prophecy. It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets speaking prophecy (1 Peter 1), and is now the Spirit of Christ revealing prophecy by His doctrine.
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God:
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The Spirit of Christ now leads to the truth of all prophecy by means of His NT doctrine. The NT doctrine and gospel of Jesus Christ was not known before by the prophets, but only spoken of in glimpses of the light.

Thumbs up.

Trying to interpret prophecy of Scripture without the key of NT doctrine, is the same partial blindness of the Jews before Christ came in the flesh. It's with less excuse now for Christians, because He has come in the flesh, and His apostles have written of His full light.

Conclusion: a frequent error of sincere Christians, is to try interpret old and new prophecy along with Revelation between themselves alone. They skip over and walk around the doctrine of Christ, whose testimony is the Spirit of prophecy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Since we are His chosen people Israel, I agree. Though His laws and commandments are now given to His apostles in the NT, and not that of Moses in the OT.

There is no people nor nation after the flesh God's chosen people on earth today. That opposes the doctrine of Christ, that says there is neither Jew nor Greek in the Israel of God, that is now grafted into His green and holy olive tree.

Let's not profess Replacement Theology. The Church is not Israel.
God has made distinction between Israel and the Church:

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 1 Co 10:31–32.

Distinction.

Once again: I see no Bible saying this about religions.
Christians are now complete in Christ, whether Jew or Greek.
Judaism of the Jews religion is now of unbelieving Jews in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:13-14) The same as Muslim religion of unbelieving Muslims. And there is also some Christian religion doing the same.

We're not complete.
We know in part; we possess spiritual gifts in part. It's all still a part until we die, and He makes us into the image of Christ.

It is the law of Christ, not of Moses, that is put into our hearts by the Spirit and circumcision of Christ.

That "law" God promised to put in our inward parts IS the Law of Moses.
The "law" of Christ/Messiah/anointing/Spirit IS the Law of Moses.

True. The law of God by Moses.
False. Those laws, statutes, services, and ministry of a worldly sanctuary (Heb 9), written on stone by Moses, are now nailed to the cross and done away by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (2 Cor 3) (Col 2)
If any of the law of Moses is also written into the law of Christ, then is now law of Christ for us to obey. (Matthew 13:52)

Well, since the Law of Moses is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit it is THAT Law of Moses which God promised to put in our inward parts. Instead of dealing with the Law from without He is now within us and dealing with us in our daily lives.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Ro 7:14.

True. In the law of Christ written by His apostles in letters and books. Not the law of Moses written by Moses in tables of stone on the mount, and books in the tabernacle of the wilderness.

The problem in communication between the religious leaders and Jesus is that all they knew was the letter of the Law. Not having the Holy Spirit, they could never understand the spiritual aspects of the Law of Moses upon the Covenant believer. And that's mainly what Jesus taught to His people: the spirit of the Law. The same with Paul. He knew the OT Scriptures. But until the Holy Spirit was put in his inward parts all he could understand was the letter of the Law.
But then the Holy Spirit illuminated the OT Scriptures in his heart and then Paul could write those excellent epistles, even the great treatise of Romans and Galatians.

We don't obey any law of Moses as unto Christ for justification with God. That is the old error of Judaizing the church and Israel of God.

I agree. We cannot keep the Law for our justification. It is death to us.
BUT, Jesus Christ/Messiah was prophesied to and for Israel, He was from the tribe of Judah, He came to and for Israel, and His teachings all have to do with the Law of Moses to and for Israel
Even the Lord's Prayer is a "Jewish" prayer. It's not a Church prayer.
To the "Jew" first, remember.

We have liberty to follow such things by personal faith, if we so wish. Any person on earth and apply any religious rules of the OT they wish to, and it will benefit them.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
We just don't teach those things as law of Christ, unless the apostles wrote them as part of NT doctrine and law.
9 of the 10 commandments in Ex 20, are repeated by the apostles for Christians to keep.

And we have kept them through Christ who fulfilled every jot and tittle of the Law. Him being in us through His Spirit God sees us as also fulfilling the Law through the Holy Spirit's Presence in our lives and THIS is our justification.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That does not negate the warnings given to saved believer to be ready or else be cast out from attending the marriage Supper in Heaven.

How does one align His words below?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

By going to the parable of the ten virgins;

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

So the foolish are the kingdom of heaven thus saved, but missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom for being out to the market seeking to be filled with oil ( the Holy Spirit ) while the prudent are filled since salvation for why they were ready to go.

That means they were not cast out of the kingdom of heaven and thereby the Lord loses none of them as they will die when left behind but resurrected after the great tribulation instead as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House/Kingdom.

There is time to repent by returning to your first love, shun tongues for private use and pray normally, and chase no more to be filled with the spirit let alone by a sign ever again because the faith is He is in you since salvation for why you should not be hungering nor thirsting to be filled again, but that is what happens when your focus is not on the Bridegroom but on those visiting spirits of the antichrist instead.

@Wordsmith @Agra Man @TB2

Post one person from Scripture ever blotted out of the book of life.
You won't find one.

Paul prayed privately in tongues. Are you saying his example and instruction is eastern religion tongues like you say Acts 2 were?

No matter what my sins are after I become saved every one of them is paid for.
So, there's never a chance of me missing out on the Supper, or of a seat at the table.
My name is on a card in front of my chair.
And it is a glorious chair.

 

[Reformedguy]

What election is Rom 9 talking about? The Election of the Cross, mankind's redemption. 2 Pet 1:10, on the other hand, is talking about your election. Are you putting your election on the same level as the Election of the Cross? An understanding of context is vital here.

If "there's no reason to doubt" then why does 2 Pet 1:10 mention the possibility of failure?

Notice all the efforts that are conditional to make your election sure. How can your election be unconditional when it's conditional on all the efforts I highlighted above?

Making your election sure is not election itself.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they do not make you useless nor unproductive in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For the one who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. 2 Peter 1:5-11.

Are these descriptive of a believer, or prescriptive?

I believe these describe a believer.

Prescriptive - they're essentially the path to progressive sanctification - i.e. "take MY YOKE upon you and LEARN OF ME". That's a life-long process of developing spiritual maturity.