It is by faith and good works that one confirms his calling and election.

[Ghada]

Christians hellenize the Scripture to their own wounding.
Paul was addressing the "Jews" first and then the Greek/Gentile believers.
The 'just shall live by faith' in the beginning of his epistle is a "Jewish" Scripture addressed towards the "Jewish" believers. The Gentiles know nothing of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Everything Biblical and Scriptural is to the "Jew" first for this is who Messiah came to as was Promised by Moses. Christ came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not the Gentile.
It is all encapsulated in this key verse.
Notice who is first.

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom. 2:7–10.

The Revelation has a "Jewish" flavor. God is warning His Chosen people Israel of the times to come in which they will endure great trial and anguish. The Lord's prayer is a "Jewish" prayer Christ has beforehand prepared for His people Israel.

There are many gospels/good news in Scripture.

Paul quotes the Old Testament Scriptures to the "Jewish" believers at Rome who know the Old Testament Scriptures.

Apply them to the "Jew" first, and when you have the original meaning then apply them to the Gentile believer.

But there were Christians before the cross that believed in Christ.
In Hebrew He was called Messiah.
To the "Jew" FIRST and then the Gentiles for the "Jews" came FIRST.

I've heard this only talking to Jews teaching.

I'm not going to put away much of the Bible, and give God's words no heed, just because I'm not a born Jew in the flesh.

The eternal rule, principles, and oracles of God are for any man to hear and obey, beginning with Adam.

The only things Jesus the Jew taught, that do not apply to all men today, is that of the law of Moses pertaining only to them under the OT made at Sinai and in the wilderness.

This teaching of Jesus only speaking to natural Jews, as well as prophecy of the NT, is just more carnal Jewish pride on parade.

Someone wants to tell me that the meek shall inherit the earth does not apply to me by faith in Jesus, I just ignore them. Dittoes with be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. Dittoes with them that are blessed by reading, hearing, and keeping the things of prophecy written therein.

 

[ChristB4us]

Christians hellenize the Scripture to their own wounding.
Paul was addressing the "Jews" first and then the Greek/Gentile believers.
The 'just shall live by faith' in the beginning of his epistle is a "Jewish" Scripture addressed towards the "Jewish" believers. The Gentiles know nothing of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Everything Biblical and Scriptural is to the "Jew" first for this is who Messiah came to as was Promised by Moses. Christ came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not the Gentile.
It is all encapsulated in this key verse.
Notice who is first.

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom. 2:7–10.

The Revelation has a "Jewish" flavor. God is warning His Chosen people Israel of the times to come in which they will endure great trial and anguish. The Lord's prayer is a "Jewish" prayer Christ has beforehand prepared for His people Israel.

There are many gospels/good news in Scripture.

Paul quotes the Old Testament Scriptures to the "Jewish" believers at Rome who know the Old Testament Scriptures.

Apply them to the "Jew" first, and when you have the original meaning then apply them to the Gentile believer.

But there were Christians before the cross that believed in Christ.
In Hebrew He was called Messiah.
To the "Jew" FIRST and then the Gentiles for the "Jews" came FIRST.

When Jesus explained to Nicodemus how and when one is born again of the Spirit, He testified that it was to occur after His ascension, which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do note how Jesus had addressed the world rather than just Israel in verses 16 & 17?

 

[Josheb]

The title is not correct. Doing good does not confirm we are being saved, it ensures were remain righteous with God, and do not fall back into sinning.

Take that up with the author of the opening post. I'm confident in his ability to address your position.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I've heard this only talking to Jews teaching.
I'm not going to put away much of the Bible, and give God's words no heed, just because I'm not a born Jew in the flesh.
The eternal rule, principles, and oracles of God are for any man to hear and obey, beginning with Adam.

Adam was of the Adamic Covenant of Works.
He was before Abraham which is a Covenant of faith.
My position is that the Abrahamic Covenant was a family Covenant. Millions of Gentiles died without God as determined by God in His Will else He would have included Gentiles (not including a very minority of Gentile converts) in that Covenant. But since Peter's interaction with Cornelius, we both know the Times of the Gentiles is upon us, but that era will cease, and God turns His attention again to His people Israel.
I am saying that before we as Gentile believers begin to interpret Scripture without considering its original people and context will not fully understand the fulness of the Doctrines of Christ.
We cannot unmoor ourselves from the Laws and Commands of God to His Chosen people Israel.
After all, Christianity is Completed Judaism.

The only things Jesus the Jew taught, that do not apply to all men today, is that of the law of Moses pertaining only to them under the OT made at Sinai and in the wilderness.

Incorrect.
The Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. It is He God Promised to put in our inward parts as per Jeremiah 31:33-34.
Being that Christ fulfilled every jot and tittle with regard to the Law of God, and that in our conversion the Holy Spirit is in our inward parts speaking to us from within those Laws and Commands God wrote on stone, when God sees us, He sees us through the finished work of Christ and in this He sees us as also fulfilling every jot and tittle of His Law. This is the foundation of our justification.
Having the Holy Spirit within us we still must obey the Law to not have other gods before us and not to take the Name of the Lord in vain and to not steal or commit murder. Thus, the Moral Laws still apply to the believer. And through the Holy Spirit who is the Holy Law of God He is within us to lead and guide our lives.
The Social Laws as well. There is nothing wrong with the Social Law(s) or any other aspect of dietary laws even though we live in the free western world society where we love our pizzas, hamburgers, and tacos.

This teaching of Jesus only speaking to natural Jews, as well as prophecy of the NT, is just more carnal Jewish pride on parade.
Someone wants to tell me that the meek shall inherit the earth does not apply to me by faith in Jesus, I just ignore them. Dittoes with be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. Dittoes with them that are blessed by reading, hearing, and keeping the things of prophecy written therein.

God is a God of order. And this is the order:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom. 2:8–10.

 

[jeremiah1five]

When Jesus explained to Nicodemus how and when one is born again of the Spirit, He testified that it was to occur after His ascension, which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do note how Jesus had addressed the world rather than just Israel in verses 16 & 17?

Nicodemus was a "Jew" and from one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus spoke to Nicodemus that which was already written in so many words found in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.

Would Jesus have said this if it were not already found in their Scripture:
"Art thou a master is Israel and knowest not these things?"

And speaking of Moses lifting up the serpent is ingrained in Israel's history.
To the "Jew" first and also to the Greek.

 

[ChristB4us]

Nicodemus was a "Jew" and from one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus spoke to Nicodemus that which was already written in so many words found in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.

Would Jesus have said this if it were not already found in their Scripture:
"Art thou a master is Israel and knowest not these things?"

And speaking of Moses lifting up the serpent is ingrained in Israel's history.
To the "Jew" first and also to the Greek.

Do I need to repeat myself?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do note how Jesus had addressed the world rather than just Israel in verses 16 & 17?

Reads to me His words apply to the world and not just Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do I need to repeat myself?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do note how Jesus had addressed the world rather than just Israel in verses 16 & 17?

Reads to me His words apply to the world and not just Israel.

The context is not the world at large, but believers since John is writing to "Jewish" people the word "world" must be taken in context to its subject. And since John is writing to "Jews" so that they might know their Messiah who was prophesied to Israel and came to Israel the subject and audience of John are the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Context:

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17.

Make the connection.


19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? Jn 1:19–25.

It's all about the "Jews" and the coming of their Messiah:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. Jn 1:31.

And Christ Himself declares to whom He was sent:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:24.

And Christ sent His disciples to Israel (twelve tribes of the children of Israel.)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 10:5–6.

And it continued in Acts:

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 1:8.

The purpose of sending His disciples to the west (Jerusalem), south (Judaea, north (Samaria), and the uttermost parts of the earth (east, or the Orient.)
Christ sent His disciples to herald to the children of Israel scattered throughout the then-known world that their Messiah had come. That was their ministry.
As far as to Gentiles, well, God sent others with such a ministry. Actually, the apostles remained in Jerusalem for about eight years before they went out in obedience to the Lord. Not even persecution would uproot them to "Go" as commanded.

8 And Saul was consenting unto his death.
And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1.

The gospel continued to be spread among various peoples as a result of God sending persecution. This may be how a church was at Rome when Paul wrote his epistle.

 

[ChristB4us]

The context is not the world at large, but believers since John is writing to "Jewish" people the word "world" must be taken in context to its subject. And since John is writing to "Jews" so that they might know their Messiah who was prophesied to Israel and came to Israel the subject and audience of John are the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Context:

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17.

Make the connection.

By His grace, I can make a different connection from the one you are making by John 1:17.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Verse 10 addresses the entire world and the people in it that knew Him not.

Verses 12-13 testifies how anybody in the world can be saved as it is not by being born of the Jewish blood/lineage, nor by Judaism or any religion of men, but of God by those who have believed in Him is how they are born of God.

Now just because Jesus said to His disciples to not preach to the Gentiles on the onset when He was on earth, but preach to the House of Israel first, does not negate what the apostle John has written about what Jesus was sent for and that was to save the world and not just Israel.

Do consider that everyone that was living in the time of Christ on earth, are actually descendent of Noah and his family, I.E. the sons of God, even though they were not of the godly lineage that made up Israel that God has chosen out Abraham of all those descendent.

Then consider how it is not by lineage any more nor by Judaism hence the Old Covenant, but by believing in Him is how we are born again of the Spirit and so that message includes the world because it was foreseen that Israel would reject the chief cornerstone; Jesus Christ. Israel being blinded was how the gospel went to the world by extension. Jesus Christ even reminded the Jews of this prophesy.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

That was still at the time when Jesus & His disciples were to go to the House of Israel first before that prophesy was fulfilled. And so that is why you cannot limit all of what Jesus is saying as being only to Israel when His words are to be applied to those in the world that believes.

 

[jeremiah1five]

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Verse 10 addresses the entire world and the people in it that knew Him not.

Christ was prophesied to and for Israel and to and for Israel He came.
The context of "world" is the subject of His address, and His address is to Israel:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. Jn 1:30–31.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
The "world" of the "Jewish" people. It is all about the "Jews."

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Being neighbor to the other eleven tribes Christ hailed from the tribe of Judah.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
There were those in Israel that looked forward to their coming Messiah. These believed in His Name.

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Fatherhood of God through the fatherhood of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Fulfillment of the prophecy in Genesis 3:15.

Verses 12-13 testifies how anybody in the world can be saved as it is not by being born of the Jewish blood/lineage, nor by Judaism or any religion of men, but of God by those who have believed in Him is how they are born of God.

Until the Resurrected Christ and the Advent of the Holy Spirit all Old Testament saints were "kept" as Paul described to the "Jewish" believers in Asia Minor.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23.

From your understanding you think anyone can be saved, BUT God knows them that are His and it is not anybody.

Now just because Jesus said to His disciples to not preach to the Gentiles on the onset when He was on earth, but preach to the House of Israel first, does not negate what the apostle John has written about what Jesus was sent for and that was to save the world and not just Israel.

The Scriptures of the Old Testament and a New Testament are "Jewish."
Christianity is Completed Judaism.

Do consider that everyone that was living in the time of Christ on earth, are actually descendent of Noah and his family, I.E. the sons of God, even though they were not of the godly lineage that made up Israel that God has chosen out Abraham of all those descendent.

The Godly line went through Shem.

Then consider how it is not by lineage any more nor by Judaism hence the Old Covenant, but by believing in Him is how we are born again of the Spirit and so that message includes the world because it was foreseen that Israel would reject the chief cornerstone; Jesus Christ. Israel being blinded was how the gospel went to the world by extension. Jesus Christ even reminded the Jews of this prophesy.

We are only in what's called the Times of the Gentiles.
It is a small amount of time considering the whole of God's redemptive history beginning with Abraham.
When this small expanse of time is finished God again deals with Israel and Israel will come to God through their Messiah.
The Times of the Gentiles are only a hiccup.
The focus is Israel and it will always be Israel because they are the apple of God's eye and His Chosen people.
He has unfinished business with His people Israel that will be fulfilled at the close of human history.
The Marriage Supper will be populated by mostly Israelites.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
That was still at the time when Jesus & His disciples were to go to the House of Israel first before that prophesy was fulfilled. And so that is why you cannot limit all of what Jesus is saying as being only to Israel when His words are to be applied to those in the world that believes.

Everything about Scripture is to the "Jew" first, and also to the Gentiles.
To the "Jew" FIRST.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou [GENTILES], being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom. 11:17–21.

Be not high-minded.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do I need to repeat myself?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do note how Jesus had addressed the world rather than just Israel in verses 16 & 17?

Reads to me His words apply to the world and not just Israel.

I'll let A.W. Pink address the "world" in Scripture:

Many people suppose they already know the simple meaning of John 3:16, and therefore they conclude that no diligent study is required of them to discover the precise teaching of this verse. Needless to say, such an attitude shuts out any further light which they otherwise might obtain on the passage. Yet, if anyone will take a Concordance and read carefully the various passages in which the term "world" (as a translation of "kosmos") occurs, he will quickly perceive that to ascertain the precise meaning of, the word "world" in any given passage is not nearly so easy as is popularly supposed. The word "kosmos," and its English equivalent "world," is not used with a uniform significance in the New Testament. Very far from it. It is used in quite a number of different ways. Below we will refer to a few passages where this term occurs, suggesting a tentative definition in each case:

"Kosmos" is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 - "God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth." is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 - "God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth."

"Kosmos" is used of the earth: John 13:1; Eph. 1:4, etc., etc.- "When Jesus knew that his hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world He loved them unto the end." "Depart out of this world" signifies, leave this earth. "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." This expression signifies, before the earth was founded-compare Job 38:4 etc.

"Kosmos" is used of the world-system: John 12:31 etc. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the Prince of this world be cast out"- compare Matt. 4:8 and I John 5:19, R. V.

"Kosmos" is used of the whole human race: Rom. 3: 19, etc.-"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

"Kosmos" is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you." Believers do not "hate" Christ, so that "the world" here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. "God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world." Here is another passage where "the world" cannot mean "you, me, and everybody," for believers will not be "judged" by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view. is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you." Believers do not "hate" Christ, so that "the world" here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. "God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world." Here is another passage where "the world" cannot mean "you, me, and everybody," for believers will not be "judged" by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.



"Kosmos" is used of Gentiles in contrast from Jews: Rom. 11:12 etc. "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness." Note how the first clause in italics is defined by the latter clause placed in italics. Here, again, "the world" cannot signify all humanity for it excludes Israel!

"Kosmos" is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of "the world" in each place. is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of "the world" in each place.

Thus it will be seen that "kosmos" has at least seven clearly defined different meanings in the New Testament. It may be asked, Has then God used a word thus to confuse and confound those who read the Scriptures? We answer, No! nor has He written His Word for lazy people who are too dilatory, or too busy with the things of this world, or, like Martha, so much occupied with "serving," they have no time and no heart to "search" and "study" Holy Writ! Should it be asked further, But how is a searcher of the Scriptures to know which of the above meanings the term "world" has in any given passage? The answer is: This may be ascertained by a careful study of the context, by diligently noting what is predicated of "the world" in each passage, and by prayer fully consulting other parallel passages to the one being studied. The principal subject of John 3:16 is Christ as the Gift of God.

The first clause tells us what moved God to "give" His only begotten Son, and that was His great "love;" the second clause informs us for whom God "gave" His Son, and that is for, "whosoever (or, better, 'every one') believeth;" while the last clause makes known why God "gave" His Son (His purpose), and that is, that everyone that believeth "should not perish but have everlasting life." That "the world" in John 3:16 refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from "the world of the ungodly" (2 Pet. 2:5), is established, unequivocally established, by a comparison of the other passages which speak of God's "love." "God commendeth His love toward US"-the saints, Rom. 5:8. "Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth"-every son, Heb. 12:6. "We love Him, because He first loved US"-believers, I John 4:19. The wicked God "pities" (see Matt. 18:33). Unto the unthankful and evil God is "kind" (see Luke 6:35). The vessels of wrath He endures "with much long-suffering" (see Rom. 9:22). But "His own" God "loves"!!

 

[ChristB4us]

Christ was prophesied to and for Israel and to and for Israel He came.
The context of "world" is the subject of His address, and His address is to Israel:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. Jn 1:30–31.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
The "world" of the "Jewish" people. It is all about the "Jews."

So Jesus made the world of Israel but not the planet earth?

I believe you are failing to see the forest for all the tress, brother.

 

[ChristB4us]

I'll let A.W. Pink address the "world" in Scripture:

Where in scripture does it teach to go to A.W. Pink in understanding what world is meant in scripture?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Where in scripture does it teach to go to A.W. Pink in understanding what world is meant in scripture?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

It was easier.
Still, since "world" is understood in context to its subject and since the Scriptures were written TO and FOR Israel it must be understood in this context before attempting to apply it to Gentiles.
For God loved the world does not mean the planet.
He's not offering salvation to the planet. Christ didn't die for the planet.
AND if you want to apply it to everyone born into the world it must be a very weak love that it does not save.
No, Christ did not die for the world and God did not give His Son to the world.
He gave His Son to the Church.
That's who He died for.
No one else. And the world is not the Church, and the Church is not the world.

 

[ChristB4us]

It was easier.
Still, since "world" is understood in context to its subject and since the Scriptures were written TO and FOR Israel it must be understood in this context before attempting to apply it to Gentiles.
For God loved the world does not mean the planet.
He's not offering salvation to the planet. Christ didn't die for the planet.
AND if you want to apply it to everyone born into the world it must be a very weak love that it does not save.
No, Christ did not die for the world and God did not give His Son to the world.
He gave His Son to the Church.
That's who He died for.
No one else. And the world is not the Church, and the Church is not the world.

Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
How can world be taken as only for Israel when Jesus is already prophesying that Israel would reject Him for why His same message would go to the world?

So He died for the whole world for those that would believe in Him to be saved..

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
How can world be taken as only for Israel when Jesus is already prophesying that Israel would reject Him for why His same message would go to the world?

So He died for the whole world for those that would believe in Him to be saved..

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You do know there's a Book of Life with names of those souls God has chosen to save, yes?
He's following a predetermined plan.
A plan contemplated in His Mind in Himself in Eternity BEFORE He created anything.

 

[ChristB4us]

You do know there's a Book of Life with names of those souls God has chosen to save, yes?
He's following a predetermined plan.
A plan contemplated in His Mind in Himself in Eternity BEFORE He created anything.

That does not negate the warnings given to saved believer to be ready or else be cast out from attending the marriage Supper in Heaven.

How does one align His words below?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

By going to the parable of the ten virgins;

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

So the foolish are the kingdom of heaven thus saved, but missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom for being out to the market seeking to be filled with oil ( the Holy Spirit ) while the prudent are filled since salvation for why they were ready to go.

That means they were not cast out of the kingdom of heaven and thereby the Lord loses none of them as they will die when left behind but resurrected after the great tribulation instead as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House/Kingdom.

There is time to repent by returning to your first love, shun tongues for private use and pray normally, and chase no more to be filled with the spirit let alone by a sign ever again because the faith is He is in you since salvation for why you should not be hungering nor thirsting to be filled again, but that is what happens when your focus is not on the Bridegroom but on those visiting spirits of the antichrist instead.

@Wordsmith @Agra Man @TB2

 

[jeremiah1five]

That does not negate the warnings given to saved believer to be ready or else be cast out from attending the marriage Supper in Heaven.

How does one align His words below?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

By going to the parable of the ten virgins;

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

So the foolish are the kingdom of heaven thus saved, but missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom for being out to the market seeking to be filled with oil ( the Holy Spirit ) while the prudent are filled since salvation for why they were ready to go.

That means they were not cast out of the kingdom of heaven and thereby the Lord loses none of them as they will die when left behind but resurrected after the great tribulation instead as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House/Kingdom.

There is time to repent by returning to your first love, shun tongues for private use and pray normally, and chase no more to be filled with the spirit let alone by a sign ever again because the faith is He is in you since salvation for why you should not be hungering nor thirsting to be filled again, but that is what happens when your focus is not on the Bridegroom but on those visiting spirits of the antichrist instead.

@Wordsmith @Agra Man @TB2

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. Jn 10:27–29.

 

[Ghada]

Take that up with the author of the opening post. I'm confident in his ability to address your position.

Since you agree, then it should be the same with you.

If you don't want public challenges, the site has means of going private.

 

[makesends]

Since you agree, then it should be the same with you.

If you don't want public challenges, the site has means of going private.

Ha. I wouldn't invite @Josheb to a challenge, if I were you. Just sayin'... Might've bit off more than you can chew!

 

[Ghada]

Adam was of the Adamic Covenant of Works.

I don't read any Bible saying so.

The eternal principle of keeping God's commandments remains the same: obey God or not.

Adam and Eve lacked faith in the Lord, when the serpent accused God of being unjust in His commandment.

He was before Abraham which is a Covenant of faith.

With works. Outward circumcision was part of the covenant with Abraham (Gen 17) and was called the covenant of circumcision. (Acts 7)

My position is that the Abrahamic Covenant was a family Covenant.

Once again, I don't ready any Bible about a 'family' covenant.

The covenant with the children of Israel foreshadowed the family of Christ. Not all children by flesh were Israel by faith and works. (Rom 9:6)

Millions of Gentiles died without God as determined by God in His Will else He would have included Gentiles (not including a very minority of Gentile converts) in that Covenant.

Once again, I see no Bible for your assertions, other than opposing the Bible. Saying it is God's will at any time, that any man should perish, is not what the Bible teaches. (2 Peter 3)

The minority chosen is always man's fault, not God's. God's always chooses them He can lead by faith.

Nothing in the Bible says God did not call any other person on earth. Abraham is the only one we read answering His call.

But since Peter's interaction with Cornelius, we both know the Times of the Gentiles is upon us, but that era will cease, and God turns His attention again to His people Israel.

The era of the gospel of Jesus Christ never ceases. Jesus' gospel is the everlasting gospel (Rev 14), that never changes. (Matthew 24) Even as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday,and forever, so are the words of His everlasting gospel the same. It therefore will always be the whosoever gospel, without respect to natural child birth.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

An error of interpretation of prophecy, is mixing prophecy of land promises to Abraham's natural seed, and the gospel of salvation and justification for all believers on earth. The Lord returns to receive His own, which are His church. He does not return just to save a certain kind of unbeliever on earth.

The risen God of Israel never again deals with a natural lineage only first, much less only.

Only after He comes again to inherit all nations on earth, will the natural seed become relevant again. Not for salvation, but for land and special priestly service to the Lord on earth as prophesied in Ezekiel and with other prophets.