Is this true of the Reformed Position?

[prism]

The Luther who wrote those quotes.

Source?

 

[Mr GLee]

I am aware of the Lutheran position but was wondering if this is a fair representation of the Reformed.

1. Re / the ‘Ordo Salutis’. The Lutheran position sees the ‘order of salvation’ as calling, illumination, conversion, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification. The Reformed position sees it as election, predestination, union with Christ, calling, regeneration, faith, repentance, justification, sanctification and glorification.
2. Re / the Grace of God. The Lutheran position is that grace is received through baptism or preaching, enabling one to avoid resisting the regenerating grace of God. The Reformed position is irresistible grace as in the fourth point of TULIP.
3. Re / Repentance. The Lutheran position is that it leads to faith; and the Reformed is that it flows from faith.
4. Re / Baptism. Lutherans believe that it works regeneration, removing guilt and power of sin. For the Reformed, Baptism incorporates one into the covenant of grace.
5. Re / Lord’s Supper (Holy Communion). Lutherans believe that Christ is present in the sacrament objectively. The Reformed understand the Lord’s Supper as a sign and seal of the covenant of grace to believers. Christ is present by faith.
6. Re / Church and state. Lutherans believe that the state church is to tutor in the faith the rulers who support Protestantism. The Reformed believe in a Holy Commonwealth in which church and state, both Christian, yet perform their separate functions.
7. Re / the Regulative Principle. Lutherans believe that whatever is forbidden in Scripture is (not) permissible. The Reformed believe whatever is not commanded in Scripture is forbidden.

Also, what is the Reformed position on imputed righteousness?

I would offer. . The reformed . They are saved by the work of Christ's labor of love as the grace needed to become born again .Not of our own self lest any man boast in false pride Not by getting wet with water not anything we could do .

Illumination, conversion, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification.all together as one work of His powerful. Faith working in dying mankind .

 

[prism]

Illumination, conversion, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification.all together as one work of His powerful. Faith working in dying mankind .

Nothing of 'election' or 'predestination'?

 

[Josheb]

Source?

Post 17 contains the links to the quotes so there is no excuse for not already examining them or asking me for already posted sources (or not looking them up on your own). Hold the mouse cursor over the words, "wrote," and "similarly." Many of Luther's works can be found at CCEL for free (as well as Calvin's). It's a good site to have bookmarked.

 

[Mr GLee]

Nothing of 'election' or 'predestination'?

Another subject matter .

 

[Arch Stanton]

I was always under the impression that for the Calvinist, the Presence is dependent on the faith of the partaker, whereas with Lutherans, it was dependent on the words of Institution, "This is my Body. This is my Blood" etc.

Either way, they don't have a valid ministerial priesthood for the Eucharist.

 

[Mr GLee]

priesthood for the Eucharist.

Priesthood for the Eucharist?

Sounds like some did not understand law that infallibly states "that which goes into ones mouth comes out as drought it cannot enter the soul . It is to be buried outside of the camp to keep the fliers away . Why would we eat something that defiles mankind ?

Mark 7:18-20King James Version18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Do we ignore the law above in exchange for a oral tradition of dying mankind ?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Priesthood for the Eucharist?

Indeed.... a ministerial priesthood

 

[prism]

Either way, they don't have a valid ministerial priesthood for the Eucharist.

Where in Scripture is that a requirement?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Where in Scripture is that a requirement?

Heb 7 ‘You are a priest forever’”—
to that same degree has Jesus [also] become the guarantee of an [even] better covenant.
Those priests were many because they were prevented by death from remaining in office,
but he, because he remains forever, has a priesthood that does not pass away.

What is a High Priest if there aren't lower priests?

Jn 20 [Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

James 5 [DRV] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

II Cor. 2:10…if I have pardoned anything for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ (DRV).

I Peter 2:5-9, which speak of a universal priesthood, refers back to Ex. 19:6: “… and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” The Scripture here indicates a universal priesthood in the Old Covenant. And yet, in that same Ex. 19, and verse 22, we read, “And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves….”

Christians of the first century would not use the term “priest” (Gr. hiereus) in describing their ministers. This was the same term being used by the more numerous Jewish (cf. Lk. 1:8-9) and even pagan (cf. Acts 14:13) priests. Christians most likely used language to distinguish their priests from the Jewish and pagan priests of their day.

 

[prism]

Heb 7 ‘You are a priest forever’”—
to that same degree has Jesus [also] become the guarantee of an [even] better covenant.
Those priests were many because they were prevented by death from remaining in office,
but he, because he remains forever, has a priesthood that does not pass away.

What is a High Priest if there aren't lower priests?

Jn 20 [Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

James 5 [DRV] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

II Cor. 2:10…if I have pardoned anything for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ (DRV).

I Peter 2:5-9, which speak of a universal priesthood, refers back to Ex. 19:6: “… and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” The Scripture here indicates a universal priesthood in the Old Covenant. And yet, in that same Ex. 19, and verse 22, we read, “And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves….”

Christians of the first century would not use the term “priest” (Gr. hiereus) in describing their ministers. This was the same term being used by the more numerous Jewish (cf. Lk. 1:8-9) and even pagan (cf. Acts 14:13) priests. Christians most likely used language to distinguish their priests from the Jewish and pagan priests of their day.

Jesus is our High Priest, period.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Jesus is our High Priest

AMEN!!!

 

[donadams]

Jesus is our High Priest, period.

Then who are the low priests?

 

[prism]

Then who are the low priests?

We are...

Revelation 1:6 ESV
and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

[donadams]

We are...

Revelation 1:6 ESV
and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

You forgot
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

But Christ is high priest according to the order of melchisedec so who are the low priests of this same order?

A high priest has authority over low priests of the same ministerial order, offering the same sacrifice

 

[prism]

You forgot
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

But Christ is high priest according to the order of melchisedec so who are the low priests of this same order?

A high priest has authority over low priests of the same ministerial order, offering the same sacrifice

We are all priests...

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Hebrews 10:20 KJV

..not a special caste of priests.

 

[donadams]

We are all priests...

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Hebrews 10:20 KJV

..not a special caste of priests.

The mosaic covenant had all three:

High priest:
Low priests. (Ministerial)
Royal priesthood of the children of Israel

Why would the new covenant have but not have all three?

Thks

 

[prism]

Why would the new covenant have but not have all three?

Because...

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Otherwise, you'll have to take your complaint down the hall.

 

[Josheb]

The mosaic covenant had all three:

High priest:
Low priests. (Ministerial)
Royal priesthood of the children of Israel

Why would the new covenant have but not have all three?

Thks

What is the royal priesthood of the children of Israel in the mosaic covenant?

 

[donadams]

Because...

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Otherwise, you'll have to take your complaint down the hall.

Please explain

The Mosaic covenant had three priesthoods:

Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:

The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6

There are three new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.

“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!

With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10