• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.

Is there a connection?

That is a totally unfounded accusation. Where do you get it from?
I've seen many people who've argued that they don't need to obey the command to keep the 7th day holy because Jesus is their rest.
 
We can't keep the spiritual principle of love instead of doing the physical things that are examples of that principle. For example, we can't keep the spiritual principle of love instead of obeying God's laws for how to love.
Love is not a spiritual principle. It is who God is and His image bearers we are to bear that image. And He doesn't tell us how to love, but what love constitutes---as a VERB. So let me ask you----how do you keep the Sabbath? Do you obey all the dietary laws? ( Incidently we were never intended to eat animal flesh of any kind. It was after the flood that God permitted it.) Do you keep all the festivals and if so how? Do you ever bear false witness? Slander believers who know from Paul's words that New Covenant believers have the liberty of not keeping those laws that were given to Israel alone? Is that love, and what are you going to do about it, since you gave evidence of both sins in your post? Are you now perfect? Do we fall in and out of Christ when we sin?
Keeping the 7th day holy testifies that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh day, who sanctified it, who sanctifies us, and who saves us out of bondage, so those who believe in the truth of these things will keep the 7th day holy while those who do not believe in the truth of these things will not. The Command to keep the 7th day holy teaches us to keep the 7th day holy, not to rest one day in seven.
How odd. Millions of Christians for centuries, including myself, have believed those things and do not keep a Saturday Sabbath or follow the Jewish legal requirement of keeping it. One way we know this is acceptable is from Gal 4:9-13 But now that you know God---or rather are known by God---how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? YOu are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you , that somehow I have wasted my efforts with you.
Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Sabbath does not mean holy. It means rest. The Israelites were told to keep it holy, that is, consecrated to God.
If someone in the land of Israel believes in the truth of those things, then they will live in a way that testifies about them by obeying those commands. There is no value in learning a spiritual principle if it doesn't lead us to take physical actions that are examples of it. The way to believe that God is merciful is by showing mercy.
Well---- that as an example really has no meaning. What do those Jews who believe that but live in cities do? It was a command to an agricultural community. The principle in that is trust God. You do not even appear to be trusting in the sufficiency of Christ, but are adding a legal code to Him. And that is what our faith, our belief is based on and in. So one who claims that Christ is sufficient unto salvation would not be adding laws and conditions to salvation.
I frequently see people argue that Jesus is our rest, therefore we don't need to keep the 7th day holy, or the Sabbath is not the true rest, therefore we don't need to keep the 7th day holy, so they are trying to justify their disobedience instead of repenting of it. The reality is that part of the way that Christ is our rest is by us obeying the command to keep the 7th day holy, so who say that Christ is our rest to justify their refusal to keep the 7th day holy are missing the whole point.
This great and all inclusive they you keep bringing up do keep the Lord's day (which is what it is all about) as a day of rest, and this is the day they hold their communal gatherings for worship and teaching. "They" are not refusing to keep one day in seven consecrated to the Lord. And they are not making an excuse for anything. Those who read and understand their Bible know that Christ is our rest, the true rest. And if a person is living under one Mosaic Law as necessary for salvation, then they are under obligation to them all. So round up the bulls and rams.
Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and in Matthew 11:28-30, he invited people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not to come to him for rest from learning for him. Furthermore, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live through his law, not from taking a break from following God's guidance. Someone who thinks that obeying God's law is about trying to earn our salvation robs our souls of the rest that it was intended to give us because they will never know if they have done enough.
A paragraph of straw men.
Christians might affirm that we should keep the spiritual aspects of God's law, but that is usually code for refusing to do what it instructs, which is neither keeping the spiritual or physical aspects. We can't keep the spiritual principle of love instead of doing the physical things that are examples of that principle. For example, we can't keep the spiritual principle of love instead of obeying God's laws for how to love.


Keeping the 7th day holy testifies that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh day, who sanctified it, who sanctifies us, and who saves us out of bondage, so those who believe in the truth of these things will keep the 7th day holy while those who do not believe in the truth of these things will not. The Command to keep the 7th day holy teaches us to keep the 7th day holy, not to rest one day in seven.


If someone in the land of Israel believes in the truth of those things, then they will live in a way that testifies about them by obeying those commands. There is no value in learning a spiritual principle if it doesn't lead us to take physical actions that are examples of it. The way to believe that God is merciful is by showing mercy.


I frequently see people argue that Jesus is our rest, therefore we don't need to keep the 7th day holy, or the Sabbath is not the true rest, therefore we don't need to keep the 7th day holy, so they are trying to justify their disobedience instead of repenting of it. The reality is that part of the way that Christ is our rest is by us obeying the command to keep the 7th day holy, so who say that Christ is our rest to justify their refusal to keep the 7th day holy are missing the whole point.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and in Matthew 11:28-30, he invited people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not to come to him for rest from learning for him. Furthermore, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live through his law, not from taking a break from following God's guidance. Someone who thinks that obeying God's law is about trying to earn our salvation robs our souls of the rest that it was intended to give us because they will never know if they have done enough.


The Son is the exact image of God's character (Hebrews 1:3), so he is the embodiment holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth expressed through setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so the purpose of the written law is to teach us ow to express those spiritual principles and the way to have salvation through faith in him alone is through being in his image through following his example. Does someone lean on their own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in their own eyes or do they rely only upon the image of God to correctly divide between how they should live? Jesus is the embodiment of God's word, so us embodying God's word through follow his example is not putting our faith in something other than him alone. It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God for salvation, but not in what He has commanded for salvation, but rather relying only on what God has commanded is the way to have faith in Him alone for salvation. Instructions for how to embody God's character can't be abolished without first abolishing God, which is why the New Covenant still involves following God's eternal law (Jeremiah 31:33). In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
The OT saints had the Law as their teacher. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling us as our teacher, teaching us the word.
 
I've seen many people who've argued that they don't need to obey the command to keep the 7th day holy because Jesus is their rest.
They believe that because it is what Scripture tells them this is so. Show me one place in Acts or the Epistles (which is the very foundation of Christian truth) where any of the apostles tell us to keep the Sabbath? God was pretty specific about it in the old covenant, so let's have it. Show me where it says that?
 
Privately on your own? I would not call that worship, but praise and thanksgiving
Public worship requires much more.
Sides I was referring to the official worship of the church!

I would offer

Public worship is not a requirement in worshiping God we are to pray without ceasing all day, every day. . . whatever we eat drink or do rely on His power working in us .

And neither is counting beads on a rosary asking for help of a queen of heaven now and in the hour of death .Pray one manner one Holy Father in Heaven. Simply vain repetitions

Mathew 6:1-7 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking
 
Love is not a spiritual principle. It is who God is and His image bearers we are to bear that image. And He doesn't tell us how to love, but what love constitutes---as a VERB. So let me ask you----how do you keep the Sabbath? Do you obey all the dietary laws? ( Incidently we were never intended to eat animal flesh of any kind. It was after the flood that God permitted it.) Do you keep all the festivals and if so how? Do you ever bear false witness? Slander believers who know from Paul's words that New Covenant believers have the liberty of not keeping those laws that were given to Israel alone? Is that love, and what are you going to do about it, since you gave evidence of both sins in your post? Are you now perfect? Do we fall in and out of Christ when we sin?
Spiritual principles are aspects of God's character and being a doer of aspects of God's character is what it means to be in His image. If I were teaching someone what it means to love, then I could given them 100 examples of what it means to love in various situations, which would allow them to abstract a spiritual principle of love that all of those examples have in common so that they could know how to love even in situations that are not one of those example, but correctly understanding that spiritual principle would never lead them away from acting in accordance with those examples.

I keep the Sabbath by having a holy convocation with prayer, study, and fellowship while refraining from doing what God commanded against doing on the Sabbath. Yes, I obey dietary laws and God's festivals. I don't claim to be sinless, but I have repented when I have. I have did not bear false witness or slandered believers in my post and Paul did not say that we are that we are liberty to not follow those laws, but rather he said that we are not permitted to sin (Romans 6:15) and that it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20). In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if you think that Paul did that, then according to God you should consider him to be a false prophet, though the reality is that he was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying anything that He has commanded. I have not claimed to be perfect.

How odd. Millions of Christians for centuries, including myself, have believed those things and do not keep a Saturday Sabbath or follow the Jewish legal requirement of keeping it. One way we know this is acceptable is from Gal 4:9-13 But now that you know God---or rather are known by God---how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? YOu are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you , that somehow I have wasted my efforts with you.
Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Sabbath does not mean holy. It means rest. The Israelites were told to keep it holy, that is, consecrated to God.
If you believed those things, then you would live in a way that affirms their truth rather than a way that denies them.

In Galatians 4:8-13, Paul addressed those verses to those who formerly did not know God, also known as former pagans, as such he could not have been criticizing them for returning to obedience to God's law, sot the days that they were returning to was within the context of paganism. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him, and in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, so Paul saying in Galatians 4:9 now that they know and are know by God, he was affirming that they were now living in obedience to the Mosaic Law and was criticizing them for returning to paganism.

In Romans 14:1, the topic of the chapter is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow His commands. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, God gave no command to eat only vegetables, but they were judging and resenting each other over that issue. In Romans 14:4-6, Paul was not saying that we are free to break the Sabbath, commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, kidnapping, rape, favoritism, and so forth just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command. Paul spoke about those who eat or refrain from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion, for example, God gave no command to fast twice a week, but people were judging and resenting each other over whether people chose to do that (Luke 18:12).

The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a disputable matter of opinion, but because God rested on it after Creation, blessed it, made it holy, commanded His people to keep it holy. Moreover, what is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the 7th day holy even if God has never commanded anyone to do that.

Well---- that as an example really has no meaning. What do those Jews who believe that but live in cities do? It was a command to an agricultural community. The principle in that is trust God. You do not even appear to be trusting in the sufficiency of Christ, but are adding a legal code to Him. And that is what our faith, our belief is based on and in. So one who claims that Christ is sufficient unto salvation would not be adding laws and conditions to salvation.
It is contradictory to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions. Jesus embodied the Mosaic Law by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to it, so he is the embodiment of a legal code, which is not something I am adding to him. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically the content of his gift of saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to do those works is the content of His gift of salvation, participating in that training is required for being saved from not doing those works, and participating in that training has nothing to do with with denying that Christ is sufficient unto salvation.

This great and all inclusive they you keep bringing up do keep the Lord's day (which is what it is all about) as a day of rest, and this is the day they hold their communal gatherings for worship and teaching. "They" are not refusing to keep one day in seven consecrated to the Lord. And they are not making an excuse for anything. Those who read and understand their Bible know that Christ is our rest, the true rest. And if a person is living under one Mosaic Law as necessary for salvation, then they are under obligation to them all. So round up the bulls and rams.
It is about the Sabbath. Again, the command is to keep the 7th day holy, not to keep one day in seven holy. People can do something else if they want, but not without sinning. Christ's is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that he is the true rest instead of God's word. Out salvation is from living in transgression of the Mosaic Law, so it is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation while also thinking that they aren't obligated to obey the Mosaic Law.

A paragraph of straw men.
You just argued against keeping the 7th day holy by saying that Jesus is our true rest, so that is not a straw man.

The OT saints had the Law as their teacher. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling us as our teacher, teaching us the word.
The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so following the Spirit does not involve doing something other than living in obedience to it.
 
They believe that because it is what Scripture tells them this is so. Show me one place in Acts or the Epistles (which is the very foundation of Christian truth) where any of the apostles tell us to keep the Sabbath? God was pretty specific about it in the old covenant, so let's have it. Show me where it says that?
It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) and it commands to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so everything that speaks about repenting from our sins includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repenting from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is a central part of the Gospel message, which again includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Jesus also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath holy through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic.

In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45) and keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3). In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the instructions that God gave for how to fulfill those roles. It is contradictory for a Gentile to want to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would contuse to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues, which implies that they were already keeping the Sabbath holy

In Colossians 2:16, the Gentiles were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with Christ's example, they were being judged by pages for doing this, and Paul encouraged them not to let any man judge them for obeying God.
 
In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28). Gentiles who want to have eternal life by knowing the God of Israel can follow His instructions in His law for how to do that, but Gentiles can't know Him instead of following His instructions for how to do that.



Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he embodiment it by living in sinless obedience to it, which means that the way to accept him as our Savior is by embodying God's word through following His example. It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word.



In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is the way to have faith in Jesus being the Savior and the only way to eternal life.



In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing in our hearts, so those who do not want to obey God's law want nothing to do with the New Covenant.


Jesus is the one who said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28). God's word is His instructions for how to have faith in God's word made flesh, we we can't have faith in Jesus instead of obeying God's law.

The command to keep the 7th day holy is not the command to only worship on the 7th day. The Israelites worshiped God on every day of the week, which included keeping the 7th day holy. In Matthew 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commandments of God in order to establish their own tradition, so there is nothing wrong with someone choosing to follow their own tradition of worshiping God on Sunday or any other day of the week in addition to obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but we should not hypocritically set aside God's command in order to establish our own tradition. God's law is His instructions for how to worship Him, so we can't worship God instead of obeying His instructions for how to worship Him.
The law given to Israel was not given to Gentiles and is not used in the New Covenant as Jere 31:31-34 states.
 
I've seen many people who've argued that they don't need to obey the command to keep the 7th day holy because Jesus is their rest.

I would offer some how or other the translators rather than use the English translation for the word sabbath(rest)_left it in the Hebrew

One of a few foreign words that were left without the english translation. Like the Greek word Apostle sent messenger )or Greek word Angelos simply meaning messenger changing it into it to highly venerable one. or the new word invented by mankind "angel" rather than the true translation "messenger" . it would seem to all work towards one goal "cause confusion" .

In the end mankind taking a ceremonial law as a sign to the whole world, as shadow of the eternal law and give it over to strange fire using the ceremonial demonstration to all the nations to self venerate (self righteous) . I did it it proves it . Aaron's two sons did thier little self edifying(strange fire) as those who have thier reward 15 minutes of false fame. They were consumed by the fire of God's judgment not a hint of smoke on the priestly attire God protecting the integrity of His living word after no man

The word rest is a non_time sensitive word.It should be rendered non time sensitive (Rest) We are informed in Hebrews 4 that everytime we hear his living word if we hear and obey we have by His mighty power entered his eternal rest called the 7th day the same rest we receive today.

Again it's a mystery as to why they did not apply the english translation? changed the meaning of the word rest into the word week a time sensitive word that was not even coined in the Greek till after the bible was established

All but one translated the non time sensitive word Sabbath correctly in one place then followed the rest using a time sensitive word week.

Matthew 28King James Version28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Matthew 28Young's Literal Translation28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre

Towards the first or new era of rest *The new testament shadow of the old testament ceremonial law became sight.

From the last day to the first let day. Let here be the light of the gospel . . a gospel expulsion one like never before or ever again the veil was rent the shadows as carnal law that did nothing to the user , again was a sign to the unbelieving world not their own selves in foolish pride.

Nine times in the kings James the word rest is used as week .Three times in the Young's literal who translated it in Matthew 28 correctly.

Week rather than rest taking away what I would call biblical sense

The tradition at that time was three meals on the sabbath. He bragged he was on a diet and only ate two. Once a week tithe. Can't serate tithe from fast, the fast provides the food shelter for the less fortunate the whole purpose as a cerinoil law as shaw of the etrn rest in the new heavens and eth

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, (Sabbath) I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.



 
It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) and it commands to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so everything that speaks about repenting from our sins includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repenting from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is a central part of the Gospel message, which again includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Jesus also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath holy through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic.
Jesus was born under the law and he was speaking with those under the law, showing them their missing of the spiritual aspects (because of counting on lineage and possessors of the law (works in other words)and not faith, for eternal life. You are still doing the same evidently, having missed, as they did, who He is and what He came to do. Jesus did not come as an example of how to keep the Mosaic law---it is impossible for any but Him (being God and not born in Adam) to do. He came to fulfill it. That is become perfect righteousness through obedience, that He might act as our substitute. Which He did. His shed blood is the blood of the NEW COVENANT and the old with its regulations became obsolete---no longer necessary---with His ascension. So He did not come as an example of how to obey the law, He came to SAVE.
I will ask here that you give me your description of the purpose and accomplishment of the atonement.

The repenting called for is not repenting of breaking the Sabbath, it is repenting of not trusting God---that ancient curse of all mankind since Adam and Eve who were first to do that very thing.
In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45) and keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3). In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the instructions that God gave for how to fulfill those roles. It is contradictory for a Gentile to want to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.
You place your presupposition of Sabbath keeping and salvation by works into that text. It isn't really there. Physical Israel was not true Israel. True Israel is faithful Israel. Faithful Israel is Jesus and those who bear His name through faith in Him. Not Law, not Sabbath keeping---Christ and Christ ALONE. Believers are given the Holy Spirit---that makes them holy in the sense of being set apart for God. They are the offspring of the Seed of Abraham. The covenant with the nation/state of Israel was temporary, based on law, and was a progression of the covenant of redemption which is a covenant of grace. It is not a delight to obey the Sinai covenant law, but a burden one cannot carry. The Holy Spirit is now our teacher, not the law, for the law is righteous and good, but it also is what condemns us.
In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would contuse to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues, which implies that they were already keeping the Sabbath holy
That passage does not say what you claim. It says For from ancient generations Moses has had in every cit those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues. This was said in the Jerusalem Council in which there was a dispute about the Law, some saying Gentiles must be circumcised according to the law of Moses in order to be saved. Peter stood up and said v.10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke (the Law) on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear. 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
The final judgement of the council was 19. Therefore my judgement is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21. For from ancient generations MOses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues. Nothing in there about keeping the Sabbath and the apostles were not preaching Moses, they were preaching Christ.
In Colossians 2:16, the Gentiles were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with Christ's example, they were being judged by pages for doing this, and Paul encouraged them not to let any man judge them for obeying God.
I never cease to be amazed when someone quotes a scripture to support one thing, and the scripture says exactly the opposite of what they claim it says. Let me put the proof text into its context, and pay very close attention, for it contains some pretty serious cautions and accusations, for those who deny the sufficiency of Christ (which is its entire thrust.)


16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,[d] puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
 
Did Christ give absolute authority to His apostolic church?

Matt 16:18-19
Lk 22:29

Lk 16:16 law ended
Gal 5:4


The practice of the Jews pointed to Christ to keep them would deny Christ!

  1. 1 John 4:3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in theworld.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. 2 John 1:7
    For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 
And he gave it to his church Matt 28:19 when he said go teach all men and lk 22:29 Matt 16:18-19 lk 10:16 Jn 20:21-23 etc

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
 
And he gave it to his church Matt 28:19 when he said go teach all men and lk 22:29 Matt 16:18-19 lk 10:16 Jn 20:21-23 etc

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
V20 does not say anything about power it speaks of observing the New Law of the New Covenant. All power belongs to Jesus.
Matt 28
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
 
The law given to Israel was not given to Gentiles and is not used in the New Covenant as Jere 31:31-34 states.
The Torah was given to Israel in order to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and the Gospel. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so Jeremiah 31:31-34 affirms that it is used in the New Covenant.
 
Did Christ give absolute authority to His apostolic church?

Matt 16:18-19
Lk 22:29
No, those Jesus not give absolute authority His apostolic church in those verses. Binding and losing refers to having the authority to make ruling about what is prohibited or permitted according to God's law. Jesus did not give his disciples the authority to end the Kingdom of God or to add to or subtract from God's law. For example, the Apostles did not have the authority to command us to commit idolatry.

Lk 16:16 law ended
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which means that the Kingdom of God is compose of citizens who have repented and are obeying it, which also means that the the end of the Mosaic Law would be the end of the Kingdom of God.

In Luke 16:16, Jesus spoke about the Gospel of the Kingdom being preached after John, so he saying that the Mosaic was still being taught, not that it had ended. Furthermore, in Luke 16:17, Jesus said that it would be easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least part to disappear from the Mosaic Law, so he was not speaking about something that he thought had already ended. In addition, in Luke 16:18, Jesus proceeded to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ is we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be under grace, this is has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ.

The practice of the Jews pointed to Christ to keep them would deny Christ!
No, we should live in a way that points to Christ by obeying the Mosaic Law rather than a way that points away/denies him by not keeping it. The Mosaic Law is God word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so he is the embodiment of the Mosaic Law expressed through setting a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to it, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so obeying the Mosaic Law is the way to accept Christ while reject it is the way to deny him.

  1. 1 John 4:3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in theworld.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. 2 John 1:7
    For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he is the man of lawfulness while 2 Thessalonians 2:3 describes the antichrist in contrast as the man of lawlessness, so pick which one you want to follow.
 
Jesus was born under the law and he was speaking with those under the law, showing them their missing of the spiritual aspects (because of counting on lineage and possessors of the law (works in other words)and not faith, for eternal life. You are still doing the same evidently, having missed, as they did, who He is and what He came to do. Jesus did not come as an example of how to keep the Mosaic law---it is impossible for any but Him (being God and not born in Adam) to do. He came to fulfill it. That is become perfect righteousness through obedience, that He might act as our substitute. Which He did. His shed blood is the blood of the NEW COVENANT and the old with its regulations became obsolete---no longer necessary---with His ascension. So He did not come as an example of how to obey the law, He came to SAVE.
Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

Jesus affirmed that obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to have eternal life and he instructed to do that, so he did not deny that we can do it and he did not think that everyone he interacted with was missing spiritual aspects. Jesus spent his ministry spreading the Gospel message calling for us to repent from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with him being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), so that is what he came to do and it is something that we can also do. We are also instructed to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Mosaic Law (1 Peter 2:21-22, 1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 11:1), so again it is something that we can do. In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to keep and Romans 10:5-8 references that as the word of faith that we proclaim, but it is the word of faith that you deny. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law by spending his ministry teaching his followers how to correctly obey it by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining his entire ministry, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33).

In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith. Even if someone manages to have perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, then they still wouldn't earn their righteousness as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so Jesus did not earn his righteousness through his perfect obedience, but rather he became righteous through faith. Jesus did not set an example of how to practice righteousness so that we don't have to, but so that we would have an example to follow, which again we are told to follow and are able to do so. Our salvation is from living in transgression of the Mosaic Law, so Jesus came to save us from that by leading us to live in obedience to it in accordance with his example.

I will ask here that you give me your description of the purpose and accomplishment of the atonement.
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus came to do through both his ministry and through the cross.

The repenting called for is not repenting of breaking the Sabbath, it is repenting of not trusting God---that ancient curse of all mankind since Adam and Eve who were first to do that very thing.
God is trustworthy, therefore the Mosaic Law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to repent of not trusting God is by obeying the Mosaic Law, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy. So do you trust God to guide you in how to rightly live through the Mosaic Law?

You place your presupposition of Sabbath keeping and salvation by works into that text. It isn't really there. Physical Israel was not true Israel. True Israel is faithful Israel. Faithful Israel is Jesus and those who bear His name through faith in Him. Not Law, not Sabbath keeping---Christ and Christ ALONE. Believers are given the Holy Spirit---that makes them holy in the sense of being set apart for God. They are the offspring of the Seed of Abraham. The covenant with the nation/state of Israel was temporary, based on law, and was a progression of the covenant of redemption which is a covenant of grace.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so living in obedience to it through faith is the way to be part of faithful Israel and to bear his name through faith in him. The Mosaic Law is God's word, so obeying God's word is the way to have faith in Christ alone. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God and obeying the Mosaic Law is the way to obey God.

The Mosaic Covenant was eternal (Exodus 34:14-17, Leviticus 24:8) with an eternal law (Psalms 119:160), which God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey (Psalms 119:29), so it is a covenant of grace, just as the the New Covenant is a covenant of law because it involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our mind and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). Our salvation is from living in transgression of the Mosaic Law, so those who want nothing to do with living in obedience to the Mosaic Law want nothing to do with salvation or with the New Covenant.

It is not a delight to obey the Sinai covenant law, but a burden one cannot carry.
The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of it, then we will also delight in obeying it as Paul did (Romans 7:22), while the view that it is a burden that one cannot carry is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of the Mosaic Law.

The Holy Spirit is now our teacher, not the law, for the law is righteous and good, but it also is what condemns us.
The Spirit has the role of teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142). The Mosaic Law was given to bring us life and a blessing while it is refusing to obey it that brings death and a curse (Deuteronomy 30:15-20).

That passage does not say what you claim.
The purpose of them hearing Moses taught every Sabbath in the synagogues was to continue to learn how to obey him. In Acts 15:11, it makes it clear that the heavy burden that no one could bear is not the Mosaic Law, but an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed in Acts 15:1. The reason for which God commanded circumcision was not in order to become saved, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling agains requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose.

I never cease to be amazed when someone quotes a scripture to support one thing, and the scripture says exactly the opposite of what they claim it says.
In Colossians 2:16-23, it is clear that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, they were being judged by pagans who were teaching human precepts and tradition, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them and prevent them from obeying God, so that is my usual reaction whenever someone tries to use Colossians 2:16 as justification for refusing to obey God's commands. God's holy days are important foreshadows of what is to come and we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come by continuing to observe them rather than a way that denies the truth of what is to come.
 
The Torah was given to Israel in order to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and the Gospel. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so Jeremiah 31:31-34 affirms that it is used in the New Covenant.
Sorry you are mixed up imo
Luke 16:16
 
Did Christ give absolute authority to His apostolic church?

Matt 16:18-19
Lk 22:29

Lk 16:16 law ended
Gal 5:4
Apostolic church?

1#Messenger bringing messages from God church? Or 2#messages as oral traditions from dying men church. . as highly esteemed venerable sinners ?

Can't serve two teaching masters as coming from one divine God .

Which one today? 1#The things of dying mankind seen, the temporal . Or #2 or the invisible things of the faith of God not seen, the eternal?

2 choices which one? 1# Things of men the temporal, or 2# things of eternal God?
.
Define the word "apostle" using the source of Christ's faith or called a labor of His love as it is written that works in dying mankind (sola scriptura) as that which God has given, his infalible living word and not the oral tradition of dying mankind

Like our brother in the Lord, Peter when used to teach us of false prophet as false apostles. Peter used as a (do not try this at home )Peter rebuked our unseen Holy Father forbidding the Son of Man Jesus from doing the will of the Holy Father in heaven (not earthly dying mankind Pope)

The kind of apostles eulogize dying flesh??? ?Or the ones that respect our invisible powerful head?

What the one meaning of the word "apostle" today? What does Christ the head of the Church say??
 
Back
Top