Is it important to keep the Sabbath?

[Fred]

No, the fact that Israelites could go to those areas does not mean that they did not need to obey God's commands.

They didn't go to those areas.

 

[Soyeong]

They didn't go to those areas.

They still would have had to obey God even if they had gone to those areas.

 

[A branch]

I don't see a good reason to interpret that verse as referring to the Law of God, especially considering the fact that all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came not to abolish the Law of God and warned against relaxing the least part of it, and in Romans 3:31, Paul confirmed that our faith does not abolish the Law of God, but rather our faith upholds it, so interpreting Ephesians 2:15 as referring to the Law of God is calling Jesus a liar, disregarding his warning, and interpreting Paul as contradicting himself. God did not make any mistakes when He gave the law, so He had no need to abolish His own law. Laws for how to testify about God's nature can't be abolished without first abolishing God.

In Ephesians 2:10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so it wouldn't make sense to interpret 2:15 as saying that Jesus abolished his eternal laws for how to do good works. In regard to Ephesians 2:14, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves. In regard to Ephesians 2:15, the Greek word "dogma" is used to refer to something other than the Law of God every other time that it is used by the Bible, so justification needs to be give for why it should be interpreted as referring to the Law of God. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true, so Gentiles are becoming joined to Christ, to Israel, to the covenants of promise, and to the God of Israel, which is all in accordance with living in obedience to the Law of Moses, not Jews becoming separated from Christ, from Israel, from the covenants of promise, and becoming joined to Gentiles in accordance with rejecting the Law of Moses.

Jere 31
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Gentiles were brought into the new covenant and all the law they need is written on their hearts and we are told the New covenant Is Not Like the Old Covenant.
Acts 15 is also so quiet clear we are not under the old law.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

 

[Fred]

They still would have had to obey God even if they had gone to those areas.

That is why God gave this command only for the nation of Israel and not for those in the Northen Regions.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Soyeong]

Jere 31
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Gentiles were brought into the new covenant and all the law they need is written on their hearts and we are told the New covenant Is Not Like the Old Covenant.

In Jeremiah 31:31-33, it says that God will put the Torah in our minds and write it on our hearts, so the way that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant is not in regard to following the Torah. In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites will return from exile, God will circumcise their hearts, and they will return to obedience to the Torah. In Jeremiah 31:33, the context is the New Covenant Israelites and the Israelites returning from exile and it is describing God circumcising their hearts, and then returning to obedience to the Torah. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27 it has the same context and describes God circumcising their hearts by means of the Spirit by taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Torah, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Torah. So the New Covenant is all about Israel returning to obedience to the Torah.

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the the New Covenant includes everything in the Mosaic Covenant plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). This is why the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:13), plus the way that is is not like the Mosaic Covenant is that it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). In other words, the Mosaic Covenant is still made with the same eternal God with the same eternal nature and therefore the same eternal Torah for how to testify about His eternal nature.

Acts 15 is also so quiet clear we are not under the old law.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat is as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being an exhaustive lists to limit which laws Gentiles should follow. For example, Gentiles should still obey the greatest two commandments, and in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on them, so if Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments, then Gentiles should also obey all of the other commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, adultery, theft, murder, kidnapping, rape, and so forth for all of God's other laws.

In Acts 15:19-21, it does not treat it as being an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers, but rather it states that it is a list intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused in verse 21 by saying that Gentiles were expected to continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In other words, instead of overwhelming new believers with a long list of laws, they decided to start them off with the basics with the understanding that they would continue to learn the rest over time.

 

[Soyeong]

That is why God gave this command only for the nation of Israel and not for those in the Northen Regions.

Thanks for proving my point.

Those in northern regions should still obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy.

 

[Fred]

Those in northern regions should still obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy.

In equality with every other day.

 

[Soyeong]

In equality with every other day.

For day to be holy to be set apart and in order for day to be set apart there needs to be other days that it is set apart from, so keeping the Sabbath holy is by definition not in equality with every other day. To treat every day the same is to treat none of the as being holy. If we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work.

 

[Fred]

keeping the Sabbath holy

Can't obey the Old Covenant 7th day Sabbath command for at least two months since there is no sunset.

It's so easy to refute your heresy,

 

[Soyeong]

Can't obey the Old Covenant 7th day Sabbath command for at least two months since there is no sunset.

It's so easy to refute your heresy,

Or someone could obey it without being required to see the sunset. It is so easy to refute your false accusations and it is completely absurd to think that it is heresy to hold the position that followers of God should follow God's commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Fred]

Or someone could obey it without being required to see the sunset.

How ludicrous.

They couldn't obey it because a sunset is needed.
It's dark for 24 hours a day.

It is so easy to refute your false accusations

Yeah, it would be when you can make up any meanings for words that you want to.

 

[atpollard]

Is it important to keep the Sabbath?​

Very important. I once discarded the sabbath completely and went to a personal 6 day week. Soon I was so out of sync with everyone else that I kept missing church and showing up for work and finding the doors closed and the building empty. Therefore, I strongly recommend keeping a seventh day in your week.

Thank you.

 

[Soyeong]

How ludicrous.

They couldn't obey it because a sunset is needed.
It's dark for 24 hours a day.

Again, from sunset to sunset is one halakhah, but someone can follow a different halakhah. If there is a nation that has decided to put the Torah into practice, then there are lots of questions that naturally arise about how to correctly walk out its commands. For example, in Numbers 15:38, it says to wear tassels on the corners of your garments with a thread of blue in each, however, it doesn't say anything about what shade of blue to use, what other colors should be used, what to use to make the dye, how long these tassels should be, how to attach them to our garments, what to do if our garments don't have corners, so forth, so there were traditions that were developed for how to correctly obey that command.

Likewise, in Leviticus 19:23-25, it instructs the Israelites not to eat the fruit of a tree for the first three years that it has been planted, the fourth is holy to the Lord, and the fifth they can eat. What should be done if the fruit of a tree that is planted on a hill roles down it an mixes with the fruit of a tree that was planted during a different year? Someone had to make a ruling about what to do in that situation.

Likewise, there are rulings about what to do if someone is living in northern regions. The correct solution is not to reject God's commands, but to determine how to correctly obey them in that situation. For example, someone might keep the Sabbath based on when it is the 7th day in Israel rather than based their own location, and there are people who live outside of Israel who do this.

Yeah, it would be when you can make up any meanings for words that you want to.

What meanings do you think that I've made up?

 

[Fred]

sunset

Sunset: the setting or descent of the sun below the horizon in the evening (Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, page 1425).

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains: to move or sink down, especially of the sun sinking below the horizon - 'to sink, to set, to go down.' 'when evening came, after the sun had set' Mk 1.32 (15.113, dunō, page 197, J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida).

The sun doesn't sink below the horizon for 2 months.

 

[Soyeong]

Sunset: the setting or descent of the sun below the horizon in the evening (Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, page 1425).

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains: to move or sink down, especially of the sun sinking below the horizon - 'to sink, to set, to go down.' 'when evening came, after the sun had set' Mk 1.32 (15.113, dunō, page 197, J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida).

The sun doesn't sink below the horizon for 2 months.

Then they could count each time that the sun sinks below the horizon as one day that lasts multiple months or they could mark days based on when the sun sinks below the horizon in Israel.

 

[Fred]

when the sun sinks below the horizon in Israel.

Thanks again for proving my point in that one can't go by the setting of the sun in the Northen Regions during these two months.

 

[A branch]

In Jeremiah 31:31-33, it says that God will put the Torah in our minds and write it on our hearts, so the way that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant is not in regard to following the Torah. In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites will return from exile, God will circumcise their hearts, and they will return to obedience to the Torah. In Jeremiah 31:33, the context is the New Covenant Israelites and the Israelites returning from exile and it is describing God circumcising their hearts, and then returning to obedience to the Torah. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27 it has the same context and describes God circumcising their hearts by means of the Spirit by taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Torah, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Torah. So the New Covenant is all about Israel returning to obedience to the Torah.

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the the New Covenant includes everything in the Mosaic Covenant plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). This is why the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:13), plus the way that is is not like the Mosaic Covenant is that it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). In other words, the Mosaic Covenant is still made with the same eternal God with the same eternal nature and therefore the same eternal Torah for how to testify about His eternal nature.


Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat is as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being an exhaustive lists to limit which laws Gentiles should follow. For example, Gentiles should still obey the greatest two commandments, and in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on them, so if Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments, then Gentiles should also obey all of the other commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, adultery, theft, murder, kidnapping, rape, and so forth for all of God's other laws.

In Acts 15:19-21, it does not treat it as being an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers, but rather it states that it is a list intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused in verse 21 by saying that Gentiles were expected to continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In other words, instead of overwhelming new believers with a long list of laws, they decided to start them off with the basics with the understanding that they would continue to learn the rest over time.

Sorry very little in this post I agree with.

 

[Soyeong]

Thanks again for proving my point in that one can't go by the setting of the sun in the Northen Regions during these two months.

I said that someone could do that, so you're still making an irrelevant point.

 

[A branch]

I said that someone could do that, so you're still making an irrelevant point.

why were all the apostles and new believers meeting on Sunday rather that on Sabbath evidently they were not following the sabbath

 

[turbomaniac]

If it is important to keep the Sabbath than it is important also to do the circumcision or sacrifice sheeps?

of course not.

Jesus Christ and Saint Paul had answered about all these things that we must keep from God given law to Moses. The new testament was given reformed by the same entity who gave the Law to Moses.

So we must leave the Jews keeping the Sabbath since they are still waiting for the Messiah.