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Is Christ God?

Is your eternal life is determined by believing in Christ's divinity?


  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .

fastfredy0

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Your eternal life is determined by the content of your faith and Christ's divinity might be essential ... or maybe not. 🤔
 
Your eternal life is determined by the content of your faith and Christ's divinity might be essential ... or maybe not. 🤔
Eternal life is definitely dependent on who we say is Jesus, simply because believing in the incorrect Jesus is not salvific. Were that not the case then the Arian Jesus, Docetist Jesus, Nestorian Jesus, Sabellian Jesus, Ebionist Jesus and those of the modalists, Onenesses', JWs', LDSes', and others would all be salvific..... despite their contradictory relationship to one another.

It matters.
 
simply because believing in the incorrect Jesus is not salvific
Well, we all get it wrong to some degree. I believe that one must believe Christ is God to be saved. I don't know of another of His characteristics that is essential. Of course, one can say: "Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation" if they want to dig deeper.
 
Your eternal life is determined by the content of your faith and Christ's divinity might be essential ... or maybe not. 🤔
I would say that depends.....Yes, it is possible to obtain eternal life by not believing Jesus is God.
Many people have believed in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and never heard that Jesus was God. As those people mature in the faith it should become rather obvious that Jesus is God along with the Father and Holy Spirit also being God.

On the other hand there are those that preach a mere man died on the cross. I don't believe there is salvation in that Jesus.
I would lump them in with Josheb list...Arian Jesus, Docetist Jesus, Nestorian Jesus, Sabellian Jesus, Ebionist Jesus and those of the modalists, Onenesses', JWs', LDSes', and others do not have salvation.
 
Well, we all get it wrong to some degree. I believe that one must believe Christ is God to be saved. I don't know of another of His characteristics that is essential. Of course, one can say: "Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation" if they want to dig deeper.
I would say...
Divinity of Christ.
Trinity.
Virgin birth.
Sinless life.
Death on the cross.
Resurrection.
Second coming.
 
Yes, it is possible to obtain eternal life by not believing Jesus is God.
I guess you have to explain the following verses that seem to disagree with your assertions:
John 20:31, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3 and 1 John 5:13 also support the idea that one must believe Christ is divine; as well as: 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit … 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Re: Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation"

I would say...
Divinity of Christ.
Trinity.
Virgin birth.
Sinless life.
Death on the cross.
Resurrection.
Second coming.
I am not denying that each item on the list is true, but do you have a verse to correlate "salvation" being dependent upon all the items on your list?
(Aside: I believe there are verses for the first item (divinity of Christ), but can you do the same for the other items?)
 
Well, we all get it wrong to some degree. I believe that one must believe Christ is God to be saved. I don't know of another of His characteristics that is essential. Of course, one can say: "Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation" if they want to dig deeper.
While I am confident the Jesus we believe we know of is not wholly the Jesus who is, it is the divine aspect of his incarnation that is salvifically necessary and that is why Christological heretics have, at best, a dubious claim to salvation from sin, death, and wrath. Demons know Jesus. They know who and what he is. The know him personally, ontologically, teleologically, and existentially, but not salvifically. Christological errors is wide road kind of stuff. Denying the divinity of Christ salvifically necessarily compromises fundamental, core attributes of God (like God's omniscience).
 
Romans 10:8, 13
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
13 For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

A major component of the faith that Paul preached (Romans 10:8) includes the fact the Lord Jesus is God (Romans 10:13). Thus, it is a significant part of the faith that believers must earnestly contend for (Jude 3).
 
Your eternal life is determined by the content of your faith and Christ's divinity might be essential ... or maybe not. 🤔

Yes.

Romans 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.​
 
I guess you have to explain the following verses that seem to disagree with your assertions:
John 20:31, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3 and 1 John 5:13 also support the idea that one must believe Christ is divine; as well as: 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit … 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
My point is there are people who have been saved not knowing Jesus is God.
Re: Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation"

I am not denying that each item on the list is true, but do you have a verse to correlate "salvation" being dependent upon all the items on your list?
(Aside: I believe there are verses for the first item (divinity of Christ), but can you do the same for the other items?)
The list is attributes of Jesus that if not true would disqualify Jesus from being the savior.
 
My point is there are people who have been saved not knowing Jesus is God.
I gave verses that seem to dispute this statement. Do you have verses to support your view?

The list is attributes of Jesus that if not true would disqualify Jesus from being the savior.
Oh, your list was given in answer to: ""Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation" if they want to dig deeper." so I was confused.
 
Romans 10:8, 13
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
13 For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

A major component of the faith that Paul preached (Romans 10:8) includes the fact the Lord Jesus is God (Romans 10:13). Thus, it is a significant part of the faith that believers must earnestly contend for (Jude 3).
If I may affirmatively elaborate...

First, let's make sure that passage is applied well. That passage was NOT written to or about unregenerate non-believers! Attempts to apply that text to the unregenerate must first remove the text from its inherent context and audience affiliation(s). Aside from the fact the entire chapter is only a portion of a much longer narrative that encompasses three chapters, and those three chapters are specifically about the salvific destiny of Abrahm's descendants and Paul's kinsman, Israel (not necessarily geo-political nation-state Israel). Paul is citing Moses. Romans 10:5 is referencing Leviticus 18:5 and Deuteronomy 30:11. Romans 10:6 and 7 are citing Deuteronomy 30 12-14. Verse 8 is quoting Dt. 30:14 and it is worth noting that the original verse (Dt. 30:14) makes a causal relationship between the word that is in the person's heart and his/her subsequent obedience.


Deuteronomy 30:14 NAS
But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Deuteronomy 30:14 ESV
But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

Deuteronomy 30:14 KJV
But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


Paul then moves from Moses to Isaiah. Isaiah 28:16 and 49:23 both states those who put their trust in the LORD will not be shaken or ashamed. That is "LORD," not "Lord" or "lord." The Tetragram is used in both verses. This is important because the "him" in Romans 10 is Jesus. Paul has predicated his comments on "...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord..." In other words, Paul is inescapable implying Jesus is the LORD of Isaiah's messianic prophecies. He is making an equivalence, comparing Jesus with God. He does this as a (former) Jew and (former) Pharisee. From within the context of Judaism that comparison qualifies as heresy..... unless what Paul wrote is true and correct. Comparing oneself, or any other human, to God was considered heresy and so heretical it was a capital crime, a stoning offense. By extension, if Paul is teaching heresy then everything he wrote is unreliable. It all has the potential of being incorrect simply because his Christology is wrong. All of Paul's epistolary - more than half of the New Testament - must be discarded! However, it's not just Paul's letters that are questionable if the comparison this manner of using the Old Testament is incorrect, if equivalences made between God and Jesus are irrational. Moses wrote the word is near you, in your heart that you may do it and, according to John's preamble the word of God is Jesus incarnate. John 1:14 explicitly states the word became flesh. Moses' "word" is inherently messianic so the direct connection to the subsequently promised Savior is inescapable. If John is making an equivalence and that equivalence is heretical then John's gospel, his three epistles and Revelation are all put in doubt; their veracity is void and their legitimacy questionable at best. John addressed this matter in his gospel (but that is content for another post).

Lastly, the Moses and Isaiah texts inherently occur within an already-established covenant. Everything in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy is explicitly and repeatedly couched in the covenant God made with Abraham. Everything written in those four books and all the events recorded in those four books is couched in God keeping His promises to Abraham (and the Hebrews' forefathers, Isaac and Jacob). Those promises are all also messianic. Every occasion when God promises He will do X, Y, or Z and that promise is later fulfilled by Jesus that is an occasion of equivalent comparison. God did not say he would fulfill "X" through some intermediate who would perform the task; He declared He would do it. Therefore, Jesus is not just a mediator of God, an agent sub-contracted by God to do work God assigned to him, Jesus is also God. So, when God declares He will build His temple and Jesus later states he will build God's temple Jesus is either being true and correct comparing himself with God, or he is a lying heretic.

If he is a lying heretic then none of us are saved, neither the orthodox nor the cultist.

So what?


Well, much more about the above could be said, but relevant to this op two points are worth noting. The first is that the vision Abraham had when God first introduced His monergistically-initiated covenant to Abraham involved symbols of God performing a suzerain ritual with God. God (in the form of the smoking pot and fiery furnace) performed the ritual fealty to God = God covenanting with God and doing so at the risk of death for any breach of promise, allegiance, contract, covenant. It was not Abraham that walked between the sundered carcasses and pledged faithfulness to God. The covenant with Abraham was foundationally a covenant God made with Himself..... at the risk of His own life. But how can an immortal God die? That question is answered in Jesus, the logos of God who is God. Furthermore, Paul declares the promises made to Abraham in that covenant were also made to Jesus, the promised seed of Abraham. Abraham has many "seeds," but only Jesus is the seed of promise.

Galatians 3:1-16 (excerpted for the sake of space)
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All nations will be blessed in you." .........So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness................ Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.


Therefore, Romans the Romans 10 text is necessarily implying an equivalence between God and Jesus, an equivalence that would be blatantly heretical if it were not true.


(apologies for the length)
 
I gave verses that seem to dispute this statement. Do you have verses to support your view?

John 3:16. Many people who say baptism is a requirement are knocked back because that verse doesn't include baptism concerning eternal life...only belief. (whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.)
Understanding Jesus is God at the moment of being born again isn't a requirement for eternal life.
Oh, your list was given in answer to: ""Well, what attributes of God are essential for salvation" if they want to dig deeper." so I was confused.
I was pointing out Jesus had to be of that list to be the Christ.
For example if Jesus wasn't God, that is if Jesus was just some special chosen mere man....That Jesus would not have had enough worth to pay the ransoms for the sin of the world.

2nd example....If Jesus wasn't born of the virgin Mary then the father of Jesus would not be of the Holy Spirit and Jesus could not have been the Word that became flesh in a body with a sin nature.
 
Your eternal life is determined by the content of your faith and Christ's divinity might be essential ... or maybe not. 🤔
It is essential, though does not necessarily have to be understood, other than Jesus is something different and much more than, a created human, created as we are. A creature in other words. And he is not an incarnate angel as some propose, but the incarnate God. If he is seen as an exalted creature with no divinity, it is not the real Jesus, therefore a false god.

I personally think it is something God reveals in our hearts in the new birth, even if the learning of it comes as we grow. I attended various churches across the country from the get go, and not a one of them taught on or even mentioned the Trinity, which is a crying shame. It was some years in that I attended a church that had classes for new attendees, that laid out their core beliefs, and the pastor's wife made the statement that Christianity is the only religion that teaches Jesus is God. But I always knew he was not a created being and had a sense of his deity.
 
I am not denying that each item on the list is true, but do you have a verse to correlate "salvation" being dependent upon all the items on your list?
(Aside: I believe there are verses for the first item (divinity of Christ), but can you do the same for the other items?)
They are all things that we may not know about at the beginning, but we will learn them and they are necessary. On the resurrection Paul says in 1 Cor 15:11-19 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
 
Re:
I would say...
Divinity of Christ.
Trinity.
Virgin birth.
Sinless life.
Death on the cross.
Resurrection.
Second coming.

They are all things that we may not know about at the beginning, but we will learn them and they are necessary.
Well, the thread theme is whether or not the belief that Jesus is God is NECESSARY for salvation.
Which items on this list must be believed as a part of 'saving faith'?
 
That passage was NOT written to or about unregenerate non-believers!


If one has not called upon the Name of the Lord, then they are not saved.

So it is about unregenerate non-believers. In fact, the context teaches about those who go about establishing their own righteousness and not submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God (Romans 10:3). Thus, they are unregenerate non-believers.
 
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Re:



Well, the thread theme is whether or not the belief that Jesus is God is NECESSARY for salvation.
Which items on this list must be believed as a part of 'saving faith'?
They all are a part of the person and work of Jesus and it is faith in the person and work of Jesus that saves. We also have to hear it first. So I don't know exactly what you are asking. All on that list are generally part of what is preached when the gospel itself is preached. (With the exception in some cases of the Trinity.) Though I would say that even the Trinity is intimated when the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are a part of the conversation.

In any case, it is whatever God imparts or gives at conversion to accomplish the effectualness of his call.
 
Re:



Well, the thread theme is whether or not the belief that Jesus is God is NECESSARY for salvation.
Which items on this list must be believed as a part of 'saving faith'?
To be honest I believe saving faith is a gift given to a person...once they receive this saving faith the understanding of the...
Divinity of Christ.
Trinity.
Virgin birth.
Sinless life.
Death on the cross.
Resurrection.
Second coming.........come via the Holy Spirit as one matures in the faith and moves from milk to meat.
 
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