Is anyone planning on...............

[donadams]

That was one thing.
We know Jesus is the way because He tells us He is in the scriptures. What does that have to do with my post?

In a part of a verse completely out of “context”!

See my thread in the Bible study forum under Biblical hijinks!
Thanks

 

[donadams]

That was one thing.
We know Jesus is the way because He tells us He is in the scriptures. What does that have to do with my post?

But one scripture or partial verse out of context cannot be believed or acceptable!

 

[Arial]

Well you only accept “scripture” so whatever else (ecf, dogma, creeds, decree’s of councils, church teachings etc.) I presented would not be authoritative!

Exactly. So where do you get from scripture that it is the Catholic denomination who has authority in all things Christ's church, including her traditions and scripture interpretation? Where does the Bible give that position to the Catholic denomination or any denomination? Where does it say God appoints priests, or apostles, or a human Holy Father, in the new covenant, and that by succession, or sets up any laws associated with the new covenant, or anything at all outside what is given in the scriptures. Where does it say there is any other mediator between God and man than Christ Himself?

Where does scripture say it needs be in context?

That is common sense. Everything said or written or thought, has a context. If you remove it from the context in which it was written, (when, to whom, why, where, what etc. you can make anything mean whatever you want it to.

Jesus is the way!

We only know this cos of a part of “one” verse with no context
Care to explain it?

If there was no context we would be wondering who is this Jesus and the way to where. The entirety of the Bible is its own context, and different parts have also a more localized context, as in the epistles----who, what, where, when, why---that helps us arrive at the meaning and purpose of what it being said. And whatever interpretation that is arrived at must be consistent with all else concerning truth and God's self revelation, that is in the whole. It baffles me why I need to explain this.

 

[donadams]

Read it again. . .a good Bible study seems in order.

We now need an entire Bible study for one verse?

Ephesians 2:8

King James Version

​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Show me the word “salvation”? Please do

 

[donadams]

If you think it means salvation the are you not adding to scripture?

If “scripture is the only authority” then there can be no other authority to interpret scripture! Amen?

 

[Arial]

But one scripture or partial verse out of context cannot be believed or acceptable!

It depends if it is being interpreted keeping consistency with all of Bible truth rather than ignoring Bible truth, who is sayin what to whom and why and where, and simply deciding what one wants to use it to mean without doing any of that. An example of the Catholic religion doing that is to say that Peter is the rock on which Christ's church is founded therefore the Catholic church is that rock and since the apostles taught doctrine to those who would follow them after they died, in order to keep doctrine sound, there is an apostolic succession and our religious traditions and structure are it. Therefore we have the authority to interpret scripture and establish tradition that belong in His church, and to give the proper interpretation of scripture, and no one else does. It says then that Peter is the first pope and the Catholic clergy are the successors to Peter and the "lesser" apostles. And their priests are low priests.

It says things like since the word translated "eat" concerning Christ's flesh, means gnaw on, that proves He spoke of His literal flesh and so the Eucharist transforms into His literal flesh while at the same time maintaining its visual aspects as bread. And it has to be administered by a bishop or it doesn't transform. Using the word gnaw instead of eat to support this is completely whack-a-doodle.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

We now need an entire Bible study for one verse?

Ephesians 2:8​

King James Version​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

Show me the word “salvation”? Please do

If ever there was a verse that needed it, I do think this is the one. Though... it would be helpful to include the first half of the chapter, and the end of chapter 1, since they all run together as a single passage.

 

[donadams]

Two different types of reformation. Jesus was fulfilling the old covenant that the new might come in. Luther and the Protestant Reformation which was actually going on before Luther, just not on as large a scale, and lasted long past Luther with refinements being made. And it was not an out with the old and in with the new. It was getting rid of all the heresies against the NT teaching that had come into the Roman church. There is no connection between the two things and no reason to even ask such a silly question.

There were no similarities of function in the two covenants. No priesthood, no sacrifices, one mediator as Priest who cleanses, Jesus Christ. All those in Christ may approach God directly---come boldly before the throne of grace to receive grace and mercy. No temple. The people are the temple of God. Eph 2:19-22

You did not address the comment that the Catholic church sets its own priests up in the place of Christ or all the dead works they insist on.

Scripture only has one reformation not two!

 

[donadams]

Two different types of reformation. Jesus was fulfilling the old covenant that the new might come in. Luther and the Protestant Reformation which was actually going on before Luther, just not on as large a scale, and lasted long past Luther with refinements being made. And it was not an out with the old and in with the new. It was getting rid of all the heresies against the NT teaching that had come into the Roman church. There is no connection between the two things and no reason to even ask such a silly question.

There were no similarities of function in the two covenants. No priesthood, no sacrifices, one mediator as Priest who cleanses, Jesus Christ. All those in Christ may approach God directly---come boldly before the throne of grace to receive grace and mercy. No temple. The people are the temple of God. Eph 2:19-22

You did not address the comment that the Catholic church sets its own priests up in the place of Christ or all the dead works they insist on.

#279 has my response

 

[donadams]

If ever there was a verse that needed it, I do think this is the one. Though... it would be helpful to include the first half of the chapter, and the end of chapter 1, since they all run together as a single passage.

Can you show me the word “salvation” in this verse?

 

[donadams]

No Christ did: Lk 22:29
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

Dead works, works of the law, and natural works apart from Christ, His church, and His grace indeed “dead works”!

118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.

Fortunately for us it is very different, members of Christ and His church by grace our works are soaked in grace, the fruits of the merits of Christ’s passion and death.

Dogma
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.

Thanks

Apart from me you can do nothing! Jn 15:5 nothing salutary or meritorious do the opposite is also true! With Christ all things!

United to Christ in grace soaked in His blood! Amen!

 

[Arial]

Scripture only has one reformation not two!

You asked was the Reformation done by Jesus or Luther. Then you give a scripture that uses the word reformation. Is that supposed to mean that the Protestant Reformation breaking away from extant traditions and dictations by the Roman church did not exist?

 

[donadams]

Let me help you out as you seem lagging a bit.

context​

noun​

con·text ˈkän-ˌtekst

Synonyms of context
1
: the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning

2
: the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : ENVIRONMENT, SETTING
the historical context of the war

Ok thanks

Now where does scripture say context is valid or inspired?

Thanks

 

[Arial]

No Christ did: Lk 22:29
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Your response to the legitimacy of the Catholic priesthood.
verse 29 and O assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom----

Who is Jesus talking to? Verse 28 You are those who have stayed with me in my trials,

Why? verse 30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Verses 28-30 are all one sentence. Here is the sentence. "You are those who have stayed with me in my trials, and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Now tell me. What does that have to do with the Catholic church or its priests?

I may do a couple more just so you get the picture of what context is and why it is necessary for interpretation, but I suspect you have done this same type of thing all the way through. So not only does none of it answer my question or address my post, it isn't remotely related to it.

Changed my mind as to going through them. Took a look and they all operate from the same premise that what is said in the scriptures pertains to the Catholic denomination, and yet there is not a word in them that says that or gives even the slightest indication that the Catholic denomination has been given the same authority that the scriptures gave to the 12 plus Paul.

Before what you claim has any merit or meaning you first have to demonstrate from the scriptures that that premise is true. And the reason you can't and therefore don't, is because the premise is false. It is the premise that the Catholic church gave to itself. How many times must I say that before you understand what it means?

 

[Arial]

Scripture only has one reformation not two!

Did I ever say it had two?

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Can you show me the word “salvation” in this verse?

No, but if we expand it to include the rest of the chapter (and we really should), then I can show you the word re-generation. It's in verse 5... συνεζωοποίησεν

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The list of Martin Luther’s errors, taken from his 95 Theses and from other writings, is found in the papal bull (official document) of 1520 of Pope Leo X called Exurge Domine. The Church reforms that were developing at the time were not directly related to Luther’s objections, although they concern many, if not all, of the same areas. These reforms are found in the decrees of the Council of Trent. The main concern here is that even when we recognize the need for reform, this does not mean that we should separate from the communion of the Catholic Church, setting up our own version of the church, but remain in her communion and work for reform in the unity of orthodox faith and charity.

All of which, of course was Luther's intention, but even Catholic sources agree that the Pope at the time was "an unfortunate choice" who wasn't interested in some obscure German troublemaker.

What Roman Catholicism will probably NEVER REALIZE/ADMIT is that they weren't dealing with "Just" Luther (and others), but were in active opposition to God's program, and in IGNORANCE (or rejection) of God's written Word. The "REFORMATION" was going to take place to begin RESTORING God's truths that Rome had forgotten, or rationalized away in favor of their pagan practices.

SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE (Eph 2:8,9) was God's PRIMARY message, which He burdened Luther , and others with, and which ran head-on against all the "Traditional heresy" that Rome had constructed for their own purposes, and still teaches.

 

[Eleanor]

Show me the word “salvation”? Please do

If you think it means salvation the are you not adding to scripture?

 

[Eleanor]

If “scripture is the only authority” then there can be no other authority to interpret scripture! Amen?

Scripture, understood in context and agreement with all Scripture, is self-interpreting.

 

[donadams]

Read it again. . .a good Bible study seems in order.

Redemption:

Christians / saints:

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Colossians 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


God is the redeemer:
Psalm 111:9
Psalm 130:7

Christ is redeemer / redemption

Luke 21:28
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Redemption all men:

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.



Nothing saying redemption is or equals salvation???

Could refer to salvation in a final or future sense, but not a past tense, accomplished sense:

Ephesians 1:14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.