Irresistible Grace in Sanctification?

[Eleanor]

Free will was lost when Adam & Eve sinned.

Actually, man still has limited free will; i.e. the ability to choose, without external force or constraint, what he prefers.

Problem is, fallen man does not prefer complete submission to God in all things and, therefore, will not choose it.

 

[prism]

Actually, man still has limited free will; i.e. the ability to choose, without external force or constraint, what he prefers.

Problem is, fallen man does not prefer complete submission to God in all things and, therefore, will not choose it.

I might have reflected that after my revision. (I'm always revising)

 

[donadams]

What about the opposite can a born again sin?

 

[donadams]

Free will towards God was lost when Adam & Eve sinned.

Ephesians 2:1-3 NASB95
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, [2] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. [3] Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Sounds more like slavery than freedom of the will.

Still have free will to choose good or evil!
But you right the lower carnal passions are not subject to the intellect and will and must be subdued by suffering which happened immediately after the fall, by the sweat of Thy brow shalt Thou bring forth bread.

Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

What about the opposite can a born again sin?

Are the born again perfect and sinless?

I haven't met any that are.

 

[atpollard]

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

Philippians 2:12-13 [NASB20]​

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for [His] good pleasure.​

I didn't see anyone else mention it, but this immediately came to my mind ... God, in his grace (unmerited favor), irresistible working from INSIDE us to DESIRE and to DO ... that sure sounds like Sanctification to me.

Monergism ... it isn't JUST for Sotieriology.

 

[Eleanor]

Philippians 2:12-13 [NASB20]​

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for [His] good pleasure.​

I didn't see anyone else mention it, but this immediately came to my mind ... God, in his grace (unmerited favor), irresistible working from INSIDE us to DESIRE and to DO ... that sure sounds like Sanctification to me.

Monergism ... it isn't JUST for Sotieriology.

However, there are works in sanctification, but not in salvation by faith.

 

[Arial]

Actually, man still has limited free will; i.e. the ability to choose, without external force or constraint, what he prefers.

Problem is, fallen man does not prefer complete submission to God in all things and, therefore, will not choose it.

I do not completely disagree and I truly think it is only a matter of wording, but a limited free will is not free. I know what you mean, but I would word it as man still has a will that freely makes choices (which is why he won't choose God and cannot because because the desires of the flesh are always acting on his will, and he likes the desires of the flesh.) Internal forces and constraints always move his will and sometimes external. A man may hand over his money to a man with a gun, not because he desires give up his money, but because he loves his life even more than he loves his money.

 

[Arial]

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

That is a contradiction. An oxymoron if you will. How can something be both efficacious and resistible at the same time and in the same place?

 

[Eleanor]

I do not completely disagree and I truly think it is only a matter of wording, but a limited free will is not free. I know what you mean, but I would word it as man still has a will that freely makes choices (which is why he won't choose God and cannot because because the desires of the flesh are always acting on his will, and he likes the desires of the flesh.) Internal forces and constraints always move his will and sometimes external. A man may hand over his money to a man with a gun, not because he desires give up his money, but because he loves his life even more than he loves his money.

Thanks.

By will I mean moral power.

He still has the power to make some moral choices, but not all.

"No free will" to me means absolutely no moral power.

So in terms of free will meaning moral power, how would you characterize man's fallen state?

 

[Carbon]

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

I believe sanctification is all of grace. It's monergistic. Salvation is of the Lord, all of it, which includes sanctification.

Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

Are you thinking of Perfectionism?

 

[Carbon]

That is precisely why God's grace is irresistible, because God makes it so to the elect.

God doesn't have to over-power us with his grace. He simply makes it irresistbible to us.
I certainly didn't resist the grace of new birth and faith. I gobbled it up!

I look at it like this. We are saved by grace. So, God regenerates us and makes us alive in the spirit, we are a new creation in Christ. This new creation is restored and possesses that which he did not possess of the natural man, which is saving faith. This cannot be resisted. We don't have to try and believe or make a decision to believe. We just believe, it's who we are now, "in Christ" Which is why it is resistable.

 

[Carbon]

Dogma

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

Free will is a requirement for sin, we must know it is wrong and freely choose it anyway!

Thanks

Humanism.

 

[Carbon]

Simply the nature of sin, if there is no free will then there can be no sin!
Thanks

Haha. Really?

 

[Carbon]

Monergism ... it isn't JUST for Sotieriology.

Well, Sanctification is part of salvation.

 

[Carbon]

However, there are works in sanctification, but not in salvation by faith.

So, we are saved by grace and sanctified by works of the law?

 

[Carbon]

That is a contradiction. An oxymoron if you will. How can something be both efficacious and resistible at the same time and in the same place?

Haha, right.

 

[atpollard]

However, there are works in sanctification, but not in salvation by faith.

True (Ephesians 2:10), but I like hyperbole.

The OP asked about GRACE in Sanctification and Philippians qualified.

 

[Arial]

Haha, right.

 

[Arial]

So in terms of free will meaning moral power, how would you characterize man's fallen state?

He can choose to do good things sometimes but he can't always choose to good all the time. Because he doesn't want to. The term free will is usually used in connection with our will is so free it can choose Christ on its own. But it isn't because we are enslaved by sin and our will right along with the rest of us.