Irresistible Grace in Sanctification?

[prism]

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

 

[Josheb]

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

First let's define "Irresistible Grace" (IG), because that term simply means God accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish with His grace. IG does not mean humans cannot resist God. IG is not "puppet theology."

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

 

[prism]

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

Puppet theology not withstanding?

 

[Josheb]

Puppet theology not withstanding?

Puppet theology irrelevant as a perverse strawman.

 

[prism]

Puppet theology irrelevant as a perverse strawman.

Weren't you the one who said?...

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

It just sounded like puppet theology to me.

 

[Josheb]

It just sounded like puppet theology to me.

Why? God could easily use the regenerates freed will to accomplish an abundance of sanctification He chooses not to accomplish in the unregenerate.

Why does what I posted sound like puppet theology to you?

 

[prism]

Why does what I posted sound like puppet theology to you?

Because you said,

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

But fine, I got your point, "God accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish with His grace."
and
"God could easily use the regenerates freed will to accomplish an abundance of sanctification He chooses not to accomplish in the unregenerate."

What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not... which I guess you would label 'puppet theology' if it did.

 

[Josheb]

What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not... which I guess you would label 'puppet theology' if it did.

Who is "our"? The regenerate believing convert to Christ?

 

[Eleanor]

First let's define "Irresistible Grace" (IG), because that term simply means God accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish with His grace. IG does not mean humans cannot resist God. IG is not "puppet theology."

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

Grace is "irresistable" in the sense that no one resists that which he desires, is good for him, pleasing to him, comforting to him, enabling to him, peace to him, inner rest to him, security to him,

 

[Josheb]

Grace is "irresistable" in the sense that no one resists that which he desires, is good for him, pleasing to him, comforting to him, enabling to him, peace to him, inner rest to him, security to him,

That has nothing to do with the I in TULIP. People resist God and His desires every day. Irresistible Grace is about God, not man. God's grace accomplishes its purpose.

 

[Eleanor]

That has nothing to do with the I in TULIP. People resist God and His desires every day. Irresistible Grace is about God, not man. God's grace accomplishes its purpose.

That is precisely why God's grace is irresistible, because God makes it so to the elect.

God doesn't have to over-power us with his grace. He simply makes it irresistbible to us.
I certainly didn't resist the grace of new birth and faith. I gobbled it up!

 

[prism]

Who is "our"? The regenerate believing convert to Christ?

All those included in the following word 'your'...

1 Thessalonians 3:13 YLT
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

 

[Josheb]

All those included in the following word 'your'...

1 Thessalonians 3:13 YLT
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

You need to come right out and say it. I just got done trading posts with a Trinity-denying poster and a universalist poster who thinks everyone in the forum is ignorant of scripture. Both likely have a different view of that "our" than me. Please stop delaying and clarify your own comment. I won't know what you are saying until you do and there is no reason why you shouldn't be forthcoming and move the conversation forward. Who is the "our" in the statement, "What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not...."?


The regenerate believing convert to Christ?


If so, then just say so! Three letters. One word. Then... I can clarify, "What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not," because God definitely sanctifies the regenerate believing convert to Christ.

John 13:8
Never shall You wash my feet!" Peter told Him. Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."

1 Corinthians 1:2, 6:9-11
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours................... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason he is not ashamed to call them brethren...

See also Hebrews 10.

.....which I guess you would label "puppet theology" if it did.

Nope.

 

[prism]

You need to come right out and say it. I just got done trading posts with a Trinity-denying poster and a universalist poster who thinks everyone in the forum is ignorant of scripture. Both likely have a different view of that "our" than me. Please stop delaying and clarify your own comment. I won't know what you are saying until you do and there is no reason why you shouldn't be forthcoming and move the conversation forward. Who is the "our" in the statement, "What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not...."?


The regenerate believing convert to Christ?


If so, then just say so! Three letters. One word. Then... I can clarify, "What is not clear is if you believe this applies fully to our sanctification or not," because God definitely sanctifies the regenerate believing convert to Christ.

I already quoted 1Thes 3:13, which is addressed to the regenerate as well as the rest of Paul's epistles.

1 Thessalonians 3:13 YLT
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Maybe if I repeat the question of the OP, that would help?..

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

Otherwise I simply don't comply to the demands of other posters unless they happen to be on Staff.

 

[Josheb]

Otherwise, I simply don't comply to the demands of other posters unless they happen to be on Staff.

And I don't trade posts with those who will not define their terms, answer questions directly when asked, and then gaslight others. Thank you for your time.

 

[donadams]

Dogma

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

Free will is a requirement for sin, we must know it is wrong and freely choose it anyway!

Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

Dogma

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

Free will is a requirement for sin, we must know it is wrong and freely choose it anyway!

Thanks

Who made that rule?

 

[donadams]

Who made that rule?

Simply the nature of sin, if there is no free will then there can be no sin!
Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

Simply the nature of sin, if there is no free will then there can be no sin!
Thanks

Man has a limited free will, he has the power to choose, without external force or constraint, what he prefers.

But the human will does not operate in a vacuum. It is governed by the disposition, what one prefers.
Fallen man does not prefer God nor the things of God, so he will not choose them.
He must be sovereignly reborn of the Holy Spirit to prefer the things of God and thereby choose them.

Fallen man cannot make all moral choices, he cannot choose to be sinless, as Adam could do, whose will was totally free.

 

[prism]

Simply the nature of sin, if there is no free will then there can be no sin!
Thanks

Free will towards God was lost when Adam & Eve sinned.

Ephesians 2:1-3 NASB95
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, [2] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. [3] Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Sounds more like slavery than freedom of the will.