If your church discusses Social Justice

[Arial]

That is the problem in a nutshell.-- A misunderstanding of Biblical studies.

The problem in a nutshell is reinterpreting scripture to justify a fleshly desire, reinterpreting it to fit whatever the culture dictates.

So I am going to give you some scriptures and you show me how they are interpreted so that they are not saying what they say. Let's take it out of the realm of unsupported statements and into the brass tacks of the matter.
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Romans 1:26-28 For this reason God gave them ip to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless actswith men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased ind to do what ought not be done.
Mark 10:6-9 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female." Therefore a man shall l3 leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.
1 Tim 1:9-10 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers. for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine

You can address them one or two at a time so as not to stretch the length of the post. I will be waiting.

 

[Arial]

The historical-critical method record is there for everyone to discern for themselves. Nothing to hide and no mind control. It is a method so everyone can be on the same page. It is not the only method used

The word is proper and consistent hermeneutics.

Compare that to hundreds of Christian denominations who are unable to agree among themselves.

What does that have to do with anything?

Your only argument against it is your belief in a simple literal reading of the Bible that spawned hundreds if not thousands of varying conclusions resulting in hundreds of conflicting denominations.

My argument against what? And don't presume to know what is in my mind.

I think a lot of the misunderstanding is about what Catholics are arguing. We are not arguing over God's words in the Bible, what Catholics are saying is "cherry-picking the Bible is not an option for Catholics"

You changed the subject again. I am not talking about Catholics at all. I am speaking of your assertion that the Bible must be adapted to culture and you appear to be trying to distance yourself from that statement, as when it is repeated back to you, you realize you have no way of defending it without also denying the reliability and authority of God in the scriptures. Perhaps you never thought about it when you took up the cause of inclusiveness of wickedness within holiness for the sake of some misguided and idealistic concept of love.

And I provided examples of animals that change their appearance when it is advantageous for them to do so.

Is changing the appearance changing their nature? If they have the ability to change their appearance, that is part of their nature.

You appear to have an incorrect idea about trans people and also what I think about them. I do not believe that they can change their gender or that any amount of surgery will change their gender. What they can change is their feelings and self-image even w/o surgery. To do so they need appropriate age related mental health attention. As Christians we believe prayers are helpful so we should pray for them in the same way we pray for the sick. If they are open to it we can help them understand the Bible.

I am not talking about my idea about trans people of what you think about them. I am not talking about why they are that way, or uses of helps. I am talking about your original assertion that the Bible must keep pace with the culture, and therefore can and must be interpreted to do so. And your conclusion that in doing so, sexual and gender deviation becomes no longer a deviation in scripture. (Your only support for its veracity being "Look at all the churches that are doing this.") As does women preachers etc. all of which violate specific named sins and order. The fact that you are now trying to deny that is what you believe or ever said, has resulted in all sorts of deflecting from the issue. Which you have never addressed either to support or deny.

 

[Frank Robert]

The problem in a nutshell is reinterpreting scripture to justify a fleshly desire, reinterpreting it to fit whatever the culture dictates.

So I am going to give you some scriptures and you show me how they are interpreted so that they are not saying what they say. Let's take it out of the realm of unsupported statements and into the brass tacks of the matter.
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Romans 1:26-28 For this reason God gave them ip to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless actswith men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased ind to do what ought not be done.
Mark 10:6-9 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female." Therefore a man shall l3 leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.
1 Tim 1:9-10 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers. for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine

You can address them one or two at a time so as not to stretch the length of the post. I will be waiting.

There is nothing to address. The sins addressed in the above passages are obvious and do not need to be put into historical perspective.

The Catholic Church does not deny they are sinful which does not hold for numerous Protestant denominations. What you continually fail to understand that trans persons have a mental health problem and they should be helped to seek mental health attention. Reciting Biblical verses is not going to help them.

The word is proper and consistent hermeneutics.
What does that have to do with anything?

We agree that interpretations should be consistent. Literal interpretation is also a hermeneutical approach but it is far from consistent among denominations that have a literal interpretation of the Bible.

My argument against what? And don't presume to know what is in my mind.

I could be mistaken but I thought your were arguing against the historical-critical approach.

You changed the subject again. I am not talking about Catholics at all. I am speaking of your assertion that the Bible must be adapted to culture and you appear to be trying to distance yourself from that statement,

I apologize that I misunderstood and may have given you the wrong impression. I follow the Catholic Church in its use of historical-critical method to understand the Bible which understands the Bible by investigating the historical and cultural contexts in which the texts were written.

as when it is repeated back to you, you realize you have no way of defending it without also denying the reliability and authority of God in the scriptures.

It is your opinion that I deny the authority of God. Are you also of the opinion that the CC of denying God's authority?

Perhaps you never thought about it when you took up the cause of inclusiveness of wickedness within holiness for the sake of some misguided and idealistic concept of love.

Not sure what you are talking or where you got those ideas. Trans people offen need mental health attention and need to treated compassionately. If being compassionate is wicked I admit to being wicked.

Is changing the appearance changing their nature? If they have the ability to change their appearance, that is part of their nature.

They change appearance they obtain a benefit when they do so. It is very likely and logical that trans people obtain a psychological benefit from being trans.

I am not talking about my idea about trans people of what you think about them. I am not talking about why they are that way, or uses of helps. I am talking about your original assertion that the Bible must keep pace with the culture, and therefore can and must be interpreted to do so.

I don't recall claiming "the Bible must keep pace with the culture" if I did I was wrong.

For the record there are other ways of interpreting the Bible such as literal, moral, allegorical, and analogical. I have referred to these ways in other threads.

And your conclusion that in doing so, sexual and gender deviation becomes no longer a deviation in scripture.

That is your conclusion that you are attempting to tag me with, not my conclusion. If you are interested in what the CC and I as a Catholic believe regarding sexual sin you can check it out here. Catholic Teaching On Sexual Sin.

Allow me to make a distinction. The CC views same sex acts as sinful but being homosexual is not sinful. Being a trans person is not sinful. However, if you act on it by mutilating your body that is sinful. In other words it is not a sin to being either homosexual or trans.

(Your only support for its veracity being "Look at all the churches that are doing this.") As does women preachers etc. all of which violate specific named sins and order.

I am not claiming all the churches/denominations are doing "this" whatever "this is." It is merely, my opinion of why there are so many denominations. What is your opinion for so many denominations? Perhaps we can start a topic on why there are so many denominations.

The fact that you are now trying to deny that is what you believe

I am not backing away from any of my opinions that follow the CC teachings.

or ever said, has resulted in all sorts of deflecting from the issue. Which you have never addressed either to support or deny.

I am pointing out that when anyone and everyone interprets the Bible literally it makes for a lot of interesting differences. The support is obvious in the array of the many Christians denominations.

 

[ChristB4us]

So loving thy neighbor is all

You learn something new every day

Loving your neighbor does not mean accepting domestic abuse as normal and should be respected. You can love the sinner cutting herself or himself, but you do not have to agree with that person that cutting oneself is okay as they need Jesus to deliver them from it.

Philippians 3:1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Paul considered his life of what he has gained by it as dung even though he has Christ's love for the lost that are Jews.

No trans nor homosexual is being done any favors by agreeing with them in their delusions nor in their sinful lifestyles when they need Jesus Christ as their Saviour as any religious Jew does.

Stories of Jesus delivering sinners from being trans and from homosexuality can be found on the internet and even on Youtube.

YouTube Search results for "former trans" <--- you can pick any video of your choice to see the necessity to not accept transgender's ideology.

 

[Arial]

There is nothing to address. The sins addressed in the above passages are obvious and do not need to be put into historical perspective.

The Catholic Church does not deny they are sinful which does not hold for numerous Protestant denominations. What you continually fail to understand that trans persons have a mental health problem and they should be helped to seek mental health attention. Reciting Biblical verses is not going to help them.


We agree that interpretations should be consistent. Literal interpretation is also a hermeneutical approach but it is far from consistent among denominations that have a literal interpretation of the Bible.

I could be mistaken but I thought your were arguing against the historical-critical approach.

I apologize that I misunderstood and may have given you the wrong impression. I follow the Catholic Church in its use of historical-critical method to understand the Bible which understands the Bible by investigating the historical and cultural contexts in which the texts were written.

It is your opinion that I deny the authority of God. Are you also of the opinion that the CC of denying God's authority?

Not sure what you are talking or where you got those ideas. Trans people offen need mental health attention and need to treated compassionately. If being compassionate is wicked I admit to being wicked.

They change appearance they obtain a benefit when they do so. It is very likely and logical that trans people obtain a psychological benefit from being trans.

I don't recall claiming "the Bible must keep pace with the culture" if I did I was wrong.

For the record there are other ways of interpreting the Bible such as literal, moral, allegorical, and analogical. I have referred to these ways in other threads.


That is your conclusion that you are attempting to tag me with, not my conclusion. If you are interested in what the CC and I as a Catholic believe regarding sexual sin you can check it out here. Catholic Teaching On Sexual Sin.

Allow me to make a distinction. The CC views same sex acts as sinful but being homosexual is not sinful. Being a trans person is not sinful. However, if you act on it by mutilating your body that is sinful. In other words it is not a sin to being either homosexual or trans.

I am not claiming all the churches/denominations are doing "this" whatever "this is." It is merely, my opinion of why there are so many denominations. What is your opinion for so many denominations? Perhaps we can start a topic on why there are so many denominations.

I am not backing away from any of my opinions that follow the CC teachings.

I am pointing out that when anyone and everyone interprets the Bible literally it makes for a lot of interesting differences. The support is obvious in the array of the many Christians denominations.

Your Catholic teaching belongs in the Catholic thread. I am not addressing every aspect of this post because we are continually discussing two different things that you seem to think or assume are the same thing. I have had all the Catholic discussion I intend to have at the moment. They can't actually be talked to in a rational way, so deep are the re-defining of words from their historical and biblical meaning in order to use them as support for their system, none of which I have ever seen anyone actually be able to biblically support. They are their own authority and bring the Bible under them, no matter how often they claim not to do that. They simply say the Bible agrees with them and so does God. And one of the main reasons they give for their authority is the false claim that there are not differing views within the RCC, and Protestantism can't be true based on the fact that there are so many denominations. If you need to discuss it further, take it to the Catholic thread. It will be deleted if you do it here.

 

[Frank Robert]

Your Catholic teaching belongs in the Catholic thread. I am not addressing every aspect of this post because we are continually discussing two different things that you seem to think or assume are the same thing.

We were discussing trans persons, you introduced the OT Biblical verses that went nowhere except to discuss how how we interpret the Bible. You interpret it as a fundamentalist. I interpret it as with the Historical-critical method which coincidentally is also the way Catholics interpret it.

I have had all the Catholic discussion I intend to have at the moment.

The discussion was about trans persons. When I attempted to bring in their need for mental health attention, you again reverted to OT Biblical verses.

They can't actually be talked to in a rational way, so deep are the re-defining of words from their historical and biblical meaning in order to use them as support for their system, none of which I have ever seen anyone actually be able to biblically support.

The historical-critical method is not a Catholic method it is the method of Biblical Scholars.

They are their own authority and bring the Bible under them, no matter how often they claim not to do that. They simply say the Bible agrees with them and so does God. And one of the main reasons they give for their authority is the false claim that there are not differing views within the RCC,

Yes they are their own authority, and they have many other problems but that has little to nothing to do with trans persons.

Protestantism can't be true based on the fact that there are so many denominations.

As I said several times, we are all Christian brothers. We reveal our faith by the way we live out faith, not what denomination we are.

If you need to discuss it further, take it to the Catholic thread. It will be deleted if you do it here.

I am be more interested in discussing trans persons and how we treat them.

 

[Eleanor]

We were discussing trans persons, you introduced the OT Biblical verses that went now where so got in discuss how how we interpret the Bible. You interpret it a fundamentalist. I interpret it as with the Historical-critical method which coincidentally is also the way Catholics interpret it.
It was about trans persons. When I attempted to bring in their need for mental health attention, you again reverted to OT Biblical verses.
The historical-critical method is not a Catholic method it is the method of Biblical Scholars.
Yes they are their own authority, but that has little to nothing to do with the trans persons.
I am more interested in discussing trans persons and how we treat them.

Then you need to deal with your assumption that all that glitters is gold.

In this culture, a youth's expression of trans-personhood is not necessarily an indication of a mental-health problem, but more likely of a cultural-education problem that approaches brain-washing.

 

[Frank Robert]

Loving your neighbor does not mean accepting domestic abuse as normal and should be respected.

Where did the domestic abuse come from?

You can love the sinner cutting herself or himself, but you do not have to agree with that person that cutting oneself is okay as they need Jesus to deliver them from it.

Where did I claim cutting oneself is fine and dandy? If you got that from my many statements about trans person needing mental health attention then you are misinterpreting what I wrote

No trans nor homosexual is being done any favors by agreeing with them in their delusions nor in their sinful lifestyles when they need Jesus Christ as their Saviour as any religious Jew does.

Homosexuality is not a sin. Same sex acts are the sins. Trans person have a mental disorder with the diagnosis of Gender dysphoria which is defined as clinically significant distress or impairment related to gender incongruence. Since when is a mental disorder a sin?

On the other hand if a trans person mutilates their body via surgery or hormones that would be a sin.

Stories of Jesus delivering sinners from being trans and from homosexuality can be found on the internet and even on Youtube.

I agree, prayer can help. Very often people who make claims of being cured are bisexual or with just experimenting. Whether a person is homosexual or not the sin is the actual sex act or desire for the sex act. As I said above a celebrate homosexual is not a sinning .

YouTube Search results for "former trans" <--- you can pick any video of your choice to see the necessity to not accept transgender's ideology.

I agree again, mental disorders can go into remission or be cured. It is also why they need mental health attention.

Again, a trans person who is not mutating their body or acting out and/or has their "transgender ideology" under control is not commuting a sin.

 

[Frank Robert]

Then you need to deal with your assumption that all that glitters is gold.

In this culture, a youth's expression of trans-personhood is not necessarily an indication of a mental-health problem, but more likely of a cultural-education problem that approaches brain-washing.

Either way mental heath attention can help. BTW, mental health attention contains much of the re-education to counter cultural education.

 

[Arial]

We were discussing trans persons, you introduced the OT Biblical verses that went nowhere except to discuss how how we interpret the Bible.

I did not discuss how we interpret the Bible at all. I gave scriptures from the Bible, that are self explanatory.

You interpret it as a fundamentalist. I interpret it as with the Historical-critical method which coincidentally is also the way Catholics interpret it.

Nothing coincidental about it. You interpret that way because the the Church tells you to.

Historical criticism​

Historical criticism, also known as the historical-critical method or higher criticism, is a branch of criticism that investigates the origins of ancient texts in order to understand "the world behind the text". Wikipedia

Those things are good to know and often helpful in understanding context in the Bible. But it also needs to include the understanding that the Bible is the word of God, is inerrant, and therefore will be its own interpreter. It is God's own words given through men, and as such is utterly consistent in all its places and parts as to the truths that it teaches. External history does not teach these things and nothing in the Bible is dependent on culture or history as to its truthfulness.

The discussion was about trans persons. When I attempted to bring in their need for mental health attention, you again reverted to OT Biblical verses.

That is because I am not dealing with the excuses or reasons or treatments. I am dealing with it being sin, no matter what the reason is.

I am be more interested in discussing trans persons and how we treat them.

Then start a thread on it. What is the title of this OP?

 

[Eleanor]

Either way mental heath attention can help. BTW, mental health attention contains much of the re-education to counter cultural education.

Good news, that!

 

[ChristB4us]

Where did the domestic abuse come from?

Where did I claim cutting oneself is fine and dandy? If you got that from my many statements about trans person needing mental health attention then you are misinterpreting what I wrote

I am giving examples for why you should not be yielding to transgenderism just to love your neighbor as yourself.

Homosexuality is not a sin.

Homosexuality is a sin which is the fruit of corruption for those that love the creature more than the Creator. It does not matter if you do not commit the actual sex act, if anyone wants to know where these homosexual feelings are coming from; read Romans 1:22-32 below.

The lust of the flesh and the lust of the eye and the pride of life is of the world and the love of the Father is not in those things because they love the creature more than the Creator. And what is worse, those in homosexuality as well as in any other sexual sins, will get worse and worse.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Same sex acts are the sins. Trans person have a mental disorder with the diagnosis of Gender dysphoria which is defined as clinically significant distress or impairment related to gender incongruence. Since when is a mental disorder a sin?

What is inside is the sin that is working to destroy the well being of that sinner.

Some reports that of those coming our of being a lesbian, it is usually due to something that had happened to the girl or woman like child molestation or rape... even by a relative. So these gay folks may be hurting for why they are the way they are, but not always. One former lesbian was attracted to a pretty girl when she was 4 years old and that made her believe she was gay. With Barbie dolls & the media hyping the pride of life, along with the lust of the eye, it is no wonder how our children are being indoctrinated to look at the outward appearance rather than how God wants us to look at people by casting down wicked thoughts & imaginations.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. 7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Trans are sinners and they need Jesus Christ. Gender Dysphoria was created by woke doctors at one time calling it a mental disorder but now says it is not a mental disorder. Already this evil world is normalizing transgenderism and teaching it to pre kindergarten children in schools to mess up their minds while our government is in the process of passing legislation if it was not passed already for authorities to take children away from their parents once the teacher has successfully convert that child into believing he or she is a trans.

At any rate, the battle is of the mind and they need to know Jesus Christ can save them from their sins and help them daily to cast those thoughts & thus those feelings down to think on good things.

To be continued....

 

[ChristB4us]

On the other hand if a trans person mutilates their body via surgery or hormones that would be a sin.

Which would constitute the need to address the trans in talking about why he or she believes or wants to believe they are a trans rather than just going along with their personal pronouns or not going along with it but at most that person is in need of the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I agree, prayer can help. Very often people who make claims of being cured are bisexual or with just experimenting. Whether a person is homosexual or not the sin is the actual sex act or desire for the sex act. As I said above a celebrate homosexual is not a sinning .

For the Christian believer; they should not entertain those thoughts but put them down and think on good things with His help to do it.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Hell in verse 29 is translated from the Greek word "geena" or Gehenna which is a refuse dump outside of the City of Jerusalem. But God later on changed the meaning of that name or place as the valley of slaughter.

Jeremiah 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

This is what will happen at the pre great tribulation rapture event when unrepentant believers are not looking to Jesus daily for help in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. This is an excommunication from attending the marriage Supper in Heaven BUT even though they are left behind, they are still saved but shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity. Even former believers that would verbally deny him, are still saved even though He denies them for why they are left behind too. 2 Timothy 2:10-26 KJV

I agree again, mental disorders can go into remission or be cured. It is also why they need mental health attention.

There is strong indication now that they will not treat them for being trans but just accept them as trans without counseling to get to the root cause of why they are feeling that way since gender dysphoria has not been removed as a mental illness or disorder.

Again, a trans person who is not mutating their body or acting out and/or has their "transgender ideology" under control is not commuting a sin.

Again, something is wrong on the inside and they need Jesus Christ's help. Sharing the Good News to them and the hope we are to have in Him to destroy the works of the devil in our lives so that we can have that peace with God through Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Frank Robert]

I did not discuss how we interpret the Bible at all. I gave scriptures from the Bible, that are self explanatory.

Nothing coincidental about it. You interpret that way because the the Church tells you to.

You are wrong.

 

[Frank Robert]

I am giving examples for why you should not be yielding to transgenderism just to love your neighbor as yourself.

How is appropriate mental health treatment yielding to transgenderism? I have never suggested surgery or hormonal interventions.

You can not bully a trans child into accepting he/she is sinful and must stop sinning? This is abuse.

Homosexuality is a sin which is the fruit of corruption for those that love the creature more than the Creator. It does not matter if you do not commit the actual sex act, if anyone wants to know where these homosexual feelings are coming from; read Romans 1:22-32 below.

The lust of the flesh and the lust of the eye and the pride of life is of the world and the love of the Father is not in those things because they love the creature more than the Creator. And what is worse, those in homosexuality as well as in any other sexual sins, will get worse and worse.

There are many celebrate homosexuals who are not lusting after the flesh.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

You have just provided a major demonstration of why the Bible can not be taken literally. The ancients had no idea of the nature of homosexuality or the etiology of homosexuality. We still do not completely understand the causes but research shows that sexual orientation is likely caused partly by biological factors that start before birth. People don't decide who they're attracted to, and therapy, treatment, or persuasion won't change a person's sexual orientation. You also can't “turn” a person gay. Nor can you turn a gay straight.

We can take the Bible seriously without jettisoning contemporary understanding of sexual orientation and mental health.

What is inside is the sin that is working to destroy the well being of that sinner.

Sexual promiscuity is sinful for straights as well as gays so why don't we cure straights? But what would we change them into. I got it. Eunuchs!
But that won't work for women.

Some reports that of those coming our of being a lesbian, it is usually due to something that had happened to the girl or woman like child molestation or rape... even by a relative. So these gay folks may be hurting for why they are the way they are, but not always. One former lesbian was attracted to a pretty girl when she was 4 years old and that made her believe she was gay. With Barbie dolls & the media hyping the pride of life, along with the lust of the eye, it is no wonder how our children are being indoctrinated to look at the outward appearance rather than how God wants us to look at people by casting down wicked thoughts & imaginations.

That is pure conjecture. If it weren't so serious I would be laughing my...

 

[Frank Robert]

Which would constitute the need to address the trans in talking about why he or she believes or wants to believe they are a trans rather than just going along with their personal pronouns or not going along with it but at most that person is in need of the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Those issues can be addressed with MH treatment. Mental health treatment is not surgery or any other invasive technique. More importantly it is not bullying.

For the Christian believer; they should not entertain those thoughts but put them down and think on good things with His help to do it.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Hell in verse 29 is translated from the Greek word "geena" or Gehenna which is a refuse dump outside of the City of Jerusalem. But God later on changed the meaning of that name or place as the valley of slaughter.

Jeremiah 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

This is what will happen at the pre great tribulation rapture event when unrepentant believers are not looking to Jesus daily for help in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. This is an excommunication from attending the marriage Supper in Heaven BUT even though they are left behind, they are still saved but shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity. Even former believers that would verbally deny him, are still saved even though He denies them for why they are left behind too. 2 Timothy 2:10-26 KJV

There is strong indication now that they will not treat them for being trans but just accept them as trans without counseling to get to the root cause of why they are feeling that way since gender dysphoria has not been removed as a mental illness or disorder.

Again, something is wrong on the inside and they need Jesus Christ's help. Sharing the Good News to them and the hope we are to have in Him to destroy the works of the devil in our lives so that we can have that peace with God through Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

If the trans person is religious then religion can and should play an important part in the therapy. There are Pastoral Counselors some of whom have the education and training to work with trans people.

Pastoral Counseling

Pastoral counseling is a unique approach to mental health care that may benefit those seeking to incorporate their spirituality into treatment.

www.goodtherapy.org

 

[Arial]

You have just provided a major demonstration of why the Bible can not be taken literally. The ancients had no idea of the nature of homosexuality or the etiology of homosexuality. We still do not completely understand the causes but research shows that sexual orientation is likely caused partly by biological factors that start before birth. People don't decide who they're attracted to, and therapy, treatment, or persuasion won't change a person's sexual orientation. You also can't “turn” a person gay. Nor can you turn a gay straight.

That is an unfounded and irrelevant claim. And you show that you take historical sources as more reliable than the Bible. The nature or etiology of homosexuality has not one single thing to do with it. It was being practiced and the Bible tells us why, and the Bible tells us it is an abomination to God. Those passages you throw out of the Bible in Romans because they are inconvenient and a way in which to ignore it has been found, you should probably take them seriously and literally. If they are not literal, why are they in there and what do they really mean. (I expect an answer from you.)

We can take the Bible seriously without jettisoning contemporary understanding of sexual orientation and mental health.

Does the Catholic church allow them to partake of the Eucharist?

Sexual promiscuity is sinful for straights as well as gays so why don't we cure straights? But what would we change them into. I got it. Eunuchs!
But that won't work for women.

Yes it is. And you are the one who suggests that we can cure homosexuals and transgenders with mental health treatment. Which usually I'm guessing, given the culture we live in, affirms to them that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, and reinforces their position. The thing is, you leave God completely out of the situation both as judge and healer. And are you aware of how angry a great number of the alphabet community (not said as an insult but because I cannot keep track of their letters) would be at your "compassionate" suggestion that they need mental health treatment, or are mentally deficient in some way?

 

[ChristB4us]

How is appropriate mental health treatment yielding to transgenderism?

My response was to your response that you were to accept trans as they are as if that is how the other poster was to love thy neighbor.

I have never suggested surgery or hormonal interventions.

I never said you did.

You can not bully a trans child into accepting he/she is sinful and must stop sinning? This is abuse.

Who said anything about bullying? No trans as a sinner is going to see their need for Jesus as their Saviour if you believe that trans is not a sinner in need of Jesus as the Saviour.

There are many celebrate homosexuals who are not lusting after the flesh.

"Pride of life" is celebrated at gay pride parade as that parade is called gay pride for a reason and thus exposing the love of the Father is not in them. In the last gay Pride Parade, they chanted that they are after your children. Media tried to whitewash it as they were just kidding, but no, they are not. Even though professional drag queens rebuked drag queens for performing adult contents in front of children, members of the LGBTQ+ community are at the school supporting this "social platform" in the public educational system to little children.

There is no moral line held by the LGBTQ+.org with this social & political drive in America. It is all about pushing immorality on everyone while using the social justice warriors means of deflection by calling all who oppose as haters and bigots.

And that title Transgenders Day of Vengeance was never rebuked by the LGBTQ+ community nor their organization "supposedly representing them " as that platform is waiting as a future reference as well as future use.

You have just provided a major demonstration of why the Bible can not be taken literally.

Scripture has been penned by human authors but inspired by the same Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The ancients had no idea of the nature of homosexuality or the etiology of homosexuality.

God knows.

AND former homosexuals delivered by Jesus Christ do know.

We still do not completely understand the causes but research shows that sexual orientation is likely caused partly by biological factors that start before birth.

Be careful not to recognize an assumption when you read one when "likely" is being used. That is how the evolution theory is taught in schools back in my high school years but now they are just coming outright lying by changing the laws of science like that Law of Biogenesis as if it is not a law of science at all while treating certain theories of evolution as if they are laws of science.

Discernment and wisdom from the Lord is needed to see the lies in our educational system and what the devil is doing in the world as the world is getting worse and worse for why global calamities is getting worse testifying to the coming of Jesus Christ as the Bridegroom in judging the third of the earth with fire at the re great tribulation rapture event.

People don't decide who they're attracted to, and therapy, treatment, or persuasion won't change a person's sexual orientation. You also can't “turn” a person gay.

By sowing to the works of the flesh and thereby worshiping the creature ( the outward appearance ) more than the Creator is how God will give sinners up to that reprobate mind to do that which is not convenient because you cannot reproduce in having have a family that way.

Nor can you turn a gay straight.

Jesus Christ can. All you have to do is search the internet for that evidence.

We can take the Bible seriously without jettisoning contemporary understanding of sexual orientation and mental health.

Taking the Bible seriously will jettison contemporary understanding of sexual orientation and mental health because it needs to when there are unclean spirits in the world. Jesus Christ is the answer & shall be the Good News for them even though e shall be persecuted for it.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Sexual promiscuity is sinful for straights as well as gays so why don't we cure straights?

Why do you look to man to cure straights or gays? I am not defending psycho-heresy but promoting the Good News of Jesus Christ. I may cite some research done by them as counter proposals to other research in their efforts as the help of man but the answer is Jesus Christ; not man for vain is the help of man.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is preached to straights living in sin of fornication or adultery and not just gays.

But what would we change them into. I got it. Eunuchs!

Doesn't deal with the inside sinful nature on a daily basis. We all need Jesus Christ for that to help us lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh & sinful desires in ourselves ) as well as the sin to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son..

But that won't work for women.

Women as well as men can remain a virgin with the help of Christ, but society through the media tells them otherwise.

That is pure conjecture. If it weren't so serious I would be laughing my...

Well if you take this issue from the world's point of view, of course mocking will ensue.

What has Jesus Christ done for you? What are all your hopes in Jesus Christ for on a daily basis?

 

[ChristB4us]

Those issues can be addressed with MH treatment. Mental health treatment is not surgery or any other invasive technique.

But gender dysphoria has now been classified as not a mental illness and so how or why would mental health treat it? If I recall correctly, even the World Health Organization WHO has accepted that also.

More importantly it is not bullying.

Never said it was, but because gender dysphoria is no longer a mental health issue, then exactly what kind of help are they getting?

If the trans person is religious then religion can and should play an important part in the therapy. There are Pastoral Counselors some of whom have the education and training to work with trans people.

Pastoral Counseling

Pastoral counseling is a unique approach to mental health care that may benefit those seeking to incorporate their spirituality into treatment.

www.goodtherapy.org

Why look to man to solve the mental health issues? If they are getting help from man, for whatever that "help" is, it still does not negate their need for Jesus Christ.

 

[Frank Robert]

That is an unfounded and irrelevant claim. And you show that you take historical sources as more reliable than the Bible. The nature or etiology of homosexuality has not one single thing to do with it. It was being practiced and the Bible tells us why, and the Bible tells us it is an abomination to God. Those passages you throw out of the Bible in Romans because they are inconvenient and a way in which to ignore it has been found, you should probably take them seriously and literally. If they are not literal, why are they in there and what do they really mean. (I expect an answer from you.)

Interpretation of the Bible is not taking historical sources as more reliable. It is the understanding of the Bible using a Biblical Scholars' method.ology

Does the Catholic church allow them to partake of the Eucharist?

The Catholic Church is presently in discussion of how the church can be welcoming to transsexuals. The discussions will resume next year.

Yes it is. And you are the one who suggests that we can cure homosexuals and transgenders with mental health treatment.

Homosexuality can not be cured. Ask the thousands of young Christians who were subjected to conversion therapy. Also ask the parents how it wrecked their family.

Which usually I'm guessing, given the culture we live in, affirms to them that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, and reinforces their position.

Either you are not reading what I am writing or you are wearing blinders.

The thing is, you leave God completely out of the situation both as judge and healer. And are you aware of how angry a great number of the alphabet community (not said as an insult but because I cannot keep track of their letters) would be at your "compassionate" suggestion that they need mental health treatment, or are mentally deficient in some way?

Example of your blinders. In a previous comment I suggested Pastoral Counseling as the mental health treatment for religious people. Also, I have never suggested surgery or hormonal treatments.

Please read what I write not what you think I am writing.