I chose God..Or God chose me...

[ReverendRV]

Yes .... I've got my own theory. (Aside: I wish the bible came with a dictionary ... giggle .... oh, was originally written in English would be nice too)

Premise 1: Only God is good
Premise 2: God is independent of His creation .... meaning, there is nothing we can do the effect Him; He is the First Cause (Job 35:7-8)
Premise 3: God is the cause of ALL things. (Acts 17:28, God's asiety, Colossians 1:17)
Conclusions: Everything we do is dependent upon God; what we do requires His participation. Our perceived goodness is but the reflection of God's good that God demonstrates by participation in us, using us to show His glory.

... I'm still pondering "be perfect like He is perfect".

Aside: wonder why the software always questions my spelling of Colossians ???

Perfection ~ by ReverendRV * August 8

Hebrews 5:9 KJV; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Even though Jesus was God's Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. This is something that is pretty hard to swallow; unless you consider this as speaking of Christ’s Humanity. You ask, “Why would a perfect man need to be made perfect??” Your question is bogged down with a Presupposition; when the Bible says that he needed to be made perfect, why would you say that he was already perfect? ~ I know someone who is troubled by a relative who comes to their house and always judges how clean it is. This relative is the type who spring-cleans their home daily. The judging is harsh, but the truth of the matter is that the house is cleaned ‘Good’; although it may not be ‘Perfect’. I told this person not to worry, even ‘Good’ was good enough for God; let me explain. ~ When God created the world he saw that it was ‘Good’. We have a tendency to define this as ‘Perfect’ because there was no Sin in the world; yet. Just like Jesus, the first Man Adam needed to be perfected. Keeping the Law of God comes with a promise; ‘it will be our Righteousness’. But the problem is that only Adam and Jesus could be made Perfect by God’s Law; It makes us Imperfect…

These two men were brought forth Sinless and are the only two people that God chose to be Federal Heads for Humanity; you are either with one or the other. Since everyone else is born in Adam’s jurisdiction, the Law of God cannot help you at all. Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call someone that tells Lies? Not so perfect; are you? Have you ever Stolen anything? What do you call someone who Steals? Have you ever used God as a filthy cuss word? Just how many of the Ten Commandments can we break and still be Good; no less still be Perfect?? These are only a few of the ten; if God judged you by them would you be guilty or innocent? God sends guilty Sinners to Hell forever. ~ You object, “You said earlier that ‘Good’ is good enough for God?!” This is true for someone who is like Switzerland and neutral; but you are not an unfallen Adam or a Jesus Christ…

You need to be made perfect, there is still time! Adam ate the apple and broke the Law of God, becoming imperfect. But Jesus kept the Ten Commandments and this made him Perfect. As God, he loves the world so much that he shares his perfect record with all who will believe in him as their Lord and Savior. Jesus died on a Cross, was buried for three days but rose from the dead; you can’t keep a perfect man down! We are Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in Christ our Lord, without our trying to perfect ourselves. If we try to earn perfection, then Grace is no longer Grace. ~ Find a Church and start reading the Bible; Repent of your Sins and Confess Jesus as Lord. Though God sees the Church as Perfect because of his Perfect Son, we will not be perfected until he returns to Judge the world. He has left us his Perfect Holy Spirit and the Bible to help us along the Way…

Psalm 18:13 NIV; As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.

 

[ReverendRV]

Flawless Love ~ by ReverendRV * April 11

Romans 12:9 NIV; Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

God is Love. Biblically speaking, Love is a many faceted thing; like a diamond. Love is described in many ways throughout the Bible; here are some of its facets. Love is patient, Love is kind. It doesn’t envy, it doesn’t boast, it isn’t proud. It doesn’t dishonor others, it isn’t selfish, it’s not easily angered; it keeps no record of wrongs. Love doesn’t delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always perseveres; Love never fails. God’s Love is like the Strawn-Wagner Diamond; it’s the only diamond to ever receive a flawless Grade. God is the only one who can ever Love you the way you should be Loved. Wouldn’t any sane person want this kind of Love? But God’s Love is also like the De Beers Diamond; there came a time it was lost! How profitable will it be to the one who finds it??

The first Man Adam Sinned against God, and since then our love could never be said to be Flawless. This is how you test and Grade the gemstone of your heart; and its love for God. ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call someone who tells Lies? Hm, your hearts Clarity is cloudy. Have you stolen ANYTHING? What do you call someone who steals? Hmm, it’s color is dingy as well. This really tells the tale; have you used God’s name as a cuss word? This is Blasphemy! The Cut of your Stoney heart is misshapen. ~ These were three of the Ten Commandments, breaking them is Sinful. All Sinners will be judged by an expert Gemologist; you don’t stand a chance. God sends Sinners to an eternal Hell; but you don’t have to go…

Jesus Christ is the only person in History to never, EVER Sin; he is Flawless like the Strawn-Wagner Diamond. ~ For God so Loved the world that he gave his only Unique Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal Life! We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Risen Jesus Christ, apart from polishing our own Hearts. God conforms us to the image of his Holy Son and when he sees us, he sees the perfection of Jesus; as if he were looking at a flawless Diamond. Repent of Sin, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; find a local Church and start reading your Bible. ~ You will know God’s amazing Love like never before, because there is no greater Love than one man should die for another. You were bought with a Priceless Ransom, how could he not Love you with all his Heart?

Eph 2:13 ERV; But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes .... I've got my own theory. (Aside: I wish the bible came with a dictionary ... giggle .... oh, was originally written in English would be nice too)
Premise 1: Only God is good
Premise 2: God is independent of His creation .... meaning, there is nothing we can do the effect Him; He is the First Cause (Job 35:7-8)
Premise 3: God is the cause of ALL things. (Acts 17:28, God's asiety, Colossians 1:17)
Conclusions: Everything we do is dependent upon God; what we do requires His participation. Our perceived goodness is but the reflection of God's good that God demonstrates by participation in us, using us to show His glory.
... I'm still pondering "be perfect like He is perfect".
Aside: wonder why the software always questions my spelling of Colossians ???

Three guesses. . .and the first two don't count.

 

[fastfredy0]

Three guesses. . .and the first two don't count.

Hmmm ... I still don't know. Slap my silly. Why?

 

[fastfredy0]

We are Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in Christ our Lord, without our trying to perfect ourselves. If we try to earn perfection, then Grace is no longer Grace.

Ah, I think you're saying PERFECTION is imputed to us.
Looked up the question on Gotquestions ... seemed to state this concept.

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? What is the meaning of Matthew 5:48

www.gotquestions.org

If we try to earn perfection, then Grace is no longer Grace.

Sounds like summary of Galatians 5.
Question: Is grace no longer grace (have you been severed from Christ Gal. 5:4) if one believes that the individual must do the work of believing .... saved by free will so to speak where free will is defined as one deciding to trust in Jesus for salvation on their own (in other words: independent of God's influence ... faith precedes regeneration) ???

 

[Eleanor]

Hmmm ... I still don't know. Slap my silly. Why?

Well, I assumed ( you know what that means) you were spelling it wrong.

But then I remembered there are many words the software questions, being programmed only for common words.

 

[Eleanor]

Ah, I think you're saying PERFECTION is imputed to us.
Looked up the question on Gotquestions ... seemed to state this concept.

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? What is the meaning of Matthew 5:48

www.gotquestions.org

Sounds like summary of Galatians 5.
Question: Is grace no longer grace (have you been severed from Christ Gal. 5:4) if one believes that the individual must do the work of believing .... saved by free will so to speak where free will is defined as one deciding to trust in Jesus for salvation on their own (in other words: independent of God's influence ... faith precedes regeneration) ???

I'm thinking it means as in Lk 6:36, "as your Father is." We are to do the things God does, love our enemies, do good to the evil and unthankful, etc.

 

[fastfredy0]

I'm thinking it means as in Lk 6:36, "as your Father is." We are to do the things God does, love our enemies, do good to the evil and unthankful, etc.

Well, like I said ... I knew of the verse but was to lazy to try to figure it out. Heck, I'm still trying to work up to the wife's standards ... then I will work on God's standard of perfection.

Aside: I like the explanation of imputation of perfection

 

[Eleanor]

Well, like I said ... I knew of the verse but was to lazy to try to figure it out. Heck, I'm still trying to work up to the wife's standards ... then I will work on God's standard of perfection.

You gotta' a lotta' hill to climb!

Aside: I like the explanation of imputation of perfection

Now if it just had Biblical support.

 

[fastfredy0]

Re: I'm still trying to work up to the wife's standards

You gotta' a lotta' hill to climb!

Thanks for the support ... I thought you would be on my side ...you been talking to my wife? She said she would keep my short comings confidential.

Now if it [the definition of being perfect as God is perfect] just had Biblical support.

Agreed .... ponders .... hmmmm ....
well, there is support for the imputation of Christ's righteousness. If one has that, how far is one away from perfection? ... and as Gotquestions pointed out, this perfection is in the context of the Sermon on the Mount which is a morality deal.... hmmmm

 

[Eleanor]

You gotta' a lotta' hill to climb!

Now if it just had Biblical support.

Re: I'm still trying to work up to the wife's standards

Thanks for the support ... I thought you would be on my side ...you been talking to my wife? She said she would keep my short comings confidential.

Too funny!

I'm always on your side. I was thinking more of God's standards.

Agreed .... ponders .... hmmmm ....
well, there is support for the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Gotcha!

Justification/righteousness (dikaiosis) is a declaration by God of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a legal finding of right standing with the Court; i.e., penalty paid, time served, no debt owing.
That is a forensic righteousness which is imputed, not an actual righteousness, which is in sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit which "leads to righteousness (Ro 6:16), leading to holiness (Ro 6:19). And then there is
Christ, our righteousness (1 Co 1:30) - in that his righteousness on the cross is what qualified his sacrifice to cleanse our unrighteousness, whereby God declares us righteous (justification), not in the sense that we have Christ's own righteousness. In that case, why bother with sanctification?
RIghteousness of God (2 Co 5:21) - righteousness from God (Ro 1:17), not ourselves

If one has that, how far is one away from perfection? ... and as Gotquestions pointed out, this perfection is in the context of the Sermon on the Mount which is a morality deal.... hmmmm

Does Gotquestions distinguish between righteousness of justification and righteousness of sanctification?

 

[ReverendRV]

Ah, I think you're saying PERFECTION is imputed to us.
Looked up the question on Gotquestions ... seemed to state this concept.

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? What is the meaning of Matthew 5:48

www.gotquestions.org

Sounds like summary of Galatians 5.
Question: Is grace no longer grace (have you been severed from Christ Gal. 5:4) if one believes that the individual must do the work of believing .... saved by free will so to speak where free will is defined as one deciding to trust in Jesus for salvation on their own (in other words: independent of God's influence ... faith precedes regeneration) ???

Yes. 'Perfection' is the perfect word for us to use, to resolve the age-old Debate over Works...

Perfection is only found in Christ; not in the Works we were Born Again for. The Works we preform after we're Born Again, only contribute something to our Heavenly rewards...

On Jesus Christ, the solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand; all other ground is sinking sand!

 

[Eleanor]

Yes. 'Perfection' is the perfect word for us to use, to resolve the age-old Debate over Works...

Perfection is only found in Christ; not in the Works we were Born Again for. The Works we preform after we're Born Again, only contribute something to our Heavenly rewards...

On Jesus Christ, the Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand; all other ground is sinking sand!

My hope is built on nothing less
that Jesus' blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
but wholly lean on Jesus' name.

On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.

 

[fastfredy0]

Does Gotquestions distinguish between righteousness of justification and righteousness of sanctification?

I'm not sure. There's a thing on: Justification vs sanctification—what are the differences? How are sanctification and justification related? https://www.gotquestions.org/justification-vs-sanctification.html

Just go the to site and see if they got what you're looking for. I love the site. I don't know how to quantify it... but the have a fairly strong 'reformed' leaning.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm not sure. There's a thing on: Justification vs sanctification—what are the differences? How are sanctification and justification related? https://www.gotquestions.org/justification-vs-sanctification.html

Just go the to site and see if they got what you're looking for. I love the site. I don't know how to quantify it... but the have a fairly strong 'reformed' leaning.

I call that Biblical leaning.

 

[Rella]

Addressing whether God chose us or we chose him I have a couple simple questions.

Where does free will come into the mix?

Also seeing that we might be chosen by God before we are born with no conscious thought, by what criteria would you suppose God would use for His selection.

According to Calvin

Calvin: Predestination

Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.

www.theologian-theology.com

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death

So how exactly would you suppose that God chooses who will be sentenced to eternal death... many say damnation.

 

[ReverendRV]

Addressing whether God chose us or we chose him I have a couple simple questions.

Where does free will come into the mix?

Also seeing that we might be chosen by God before we are born with no conscious thought, by what criteria would you suppose God would use for His selection.

According to Calvin

Calvin: Predestination

Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.

www.theologian-theology.com

So how exactly would you suppose that God chooses who will be sentenced to eternal death... many say damnation.

Humanly speaking, God Chooses people for Salvation through our Faith in Jesus Christ as our LORD and Savior. But the Bible teaches that God Chooses apart from our Will too. The part of God's Choice that doesn't involve our Will, is not our problem. Keep in Mind, Calvinists hold to Sola Fide; so our Willful Faith cannot be swept under the carpet by Calvinism...

If I were an Atheist, I would use the Bible against Christians. I would ask them why the Bible says Salvation is our Will and not our Will? As a Christian, I would say "I don't know, but it is and isn't". This is what a Christian should do; we should believe the Bible...

 

[fastfredy0]

So how exactly would you suppose that God chooses who will be sentenced to eternal death... many say damnation.

God is the potter and we are the clay. Any aspect of who we are was created by the Potter. God creates some to be His children and gives them the attributes He desires through out their existence to satisfy His requirements/desires including His desire for their salvation.

 

[ReverendRV]

God is the potter and we are the clay. Any aspect of who we are was created by the Potter. God creates some to be His children and gives them the attributes He desires through out their existence to satisfy His requirements/desires including His desire for their salvation.

This is a good point @Rella can focus on. God makes his choice AFTER the Clay is Fallen; not before...

Supra v Infra? Sublapsarianism anyone?

 

[Rella]

This is a good point @Rella can focus on. God makes his choice AFTER the Clay is Fallen; not before...

Supra v Infra? Sublapsarianism anyone?

Yay... thank you... LOL... I am getting there
Please, if I have this wrong tell me.....

So God actually made an order of things to happen? Correct?

freewill?
IOW: God created humanity, humanity sinned,^ and God has provided salvation through Jesus Christ and God makes His choice After the Clay (humanity) is fallen...

Or am I wrong?
However, why do I read that with a clear understanding and find it seems to fly in the face of Calvin.
If God made his choice after the fall.... ( by His provision of Jesus, our sacrificial lamb, right and our faith in Him?)
Then how could Calvin say God predetermined either eternal life or damnation for anyone?/
Would this be because of God's foreknowledge of everything and everyone?

Calvin: Predestination

Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.

www.theologian-theology.com

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).

BTW... I did a little homework on the terms I surely did not know..... SUBLAPSARIANISM , and into the Sublapsarianism and Infralapsarianism

And I found...
Supralapsarianism / antelapsarianism (“before the lapse”) puts God’s decrees in the following order: (1) God decreed the election of some and the eternal condemnation of others, (2) God decreed to create those elected and eternally condemned, (3) God decreed to permit the fall, and (4) God decreed to provide salvation for the elect through Jesus Christ. Supralapsarianism focuses on God ordaining the fall, creating certain people for the sole purpose of being condemned, and then providing salvation for only those whom He had elected.