I chose God..Or God chose me...

[Ritajanice]

I said through the Proclamation of the Gospel. Yes reading the Gospel is also good as well, because it is God's living word.

How are you birth in the Spirit?

Do you have me confused with someone else?

Okay how did you know you were birth in the Spirit?

That's what God word does, it renews our minds.

I love the book of Romans 12: 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

This is through his word, everything we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures. Which is one of the Reformation slogans of by Scripture Alone! We must be grounded in his word, so that we are not deceived and we can test false teachers.

I don’t understand why you are evading my questions.

I already explained how I knew I was birthed in the Spirit..x3...did you not read it and scripture I posted.

So, you don’t know what the “ Living birth” means?....that’s why I’m not understanding you...

God’s word is Alive in Spirit?....how do we know this?

Being Born Again is a “ LIVING “ spiritual experience.....only God can birth our spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Biblical, what does it mean?

 

[Ritajanice]

I beg to differ, crucial piece?...could you explain what it means in your own words....Birthed in the Spirit means....what’s the crucial point of being birthed?.....how do you know you have been birthed in the Spirit?

What does heart knowledge mean to you?...



God’s word comes from him, you do not have to read any bible to be birthed in the Spirit...the rebirth comes from the living word of God, that’s been my whole point, God’s word is Alive in Spirit...he doesn’t need the Book of the Bible to be read to become Born Again...or for him to birth his child in the Spirit does he?

As his word says here...his word is ALIVE...what do I mean by that?

Hebrews 4:12-13​

KJV

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

His living word testifies with our spirit that we are Born Again..this is a supernatural act that only God can do through the Spirit....

John 3:6​

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King James Version​

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6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:8​

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King James Version​

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8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Here it is @Ladodgers6 ...you must have missed it.?

@Eleanor understands my rebirth...in fact we have even discussed our rebirth by pm......my question is...why aren’t you?

Reading the word of God and being well versed in scripture....doesn’t make one Born Again.....you must be birthed in the Spirit to see the Kingdom of God......it’s imperative that one is....and imo/ belief ..when one has been birthed in the spirit....there is NEVER any doubt!.....why....because we received that “ Living Spiritual Birth “ Mind Blowing!!
I can relate to Paul’s conversion on his way to Damascus....mind blowing......no wonder he fell to the ground...can completely relate to that.

Hebrews 4:12​

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King James Version​

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

Acts 9

King James Version

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9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
30 Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.
33 And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy.
34 And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately.
35 And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned to the Lord.
36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
43 And it came to pass, that he tarried many days in Joppa with one Simon a tanner.

 

[Ritajanice]

This is through his word, everything we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures. Which is one of the Reformation slogans of by Scripture Alone! We must be grounded in his word, so that we are not deceived and we can test false teachers.

God’s word is Alive and Active ....don’t limit him to a book.....one must know in their spirit that they are Born Again....what’s your explanation of what this means?

His word also says...can you explain what God is saying here?..please read the scripture below......I’ve been explaining the birth....yet it seems. you aren’t understanding the “ living birth” and what it means.....Spirit gives birth to spirit.....God’s word...yet, you’re asking me what it means?....if you have been birthed, you would know what it means imo/ belief...maybe God hasn’t revealed it to your heart/ spirit yet...I dunno.....there is a lot of God’s word that I don’t understand.....it hasn’t been revealed to my heart/ spirit....by the Holy Spirit....only the truth can come from him...we have to wait on him to reveal his living word to our spirit.

John 3:8​

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King James Version​

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8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Above is the rebirth....being birthed in the Spirit....a Miracle Birth...and so true what God says here, in his living word.

 

[David1701]

He operated within them intermittently, not indwelt then interittently.

The Holy Spirit was in at least some OC saints. That is not merely operating within, which could be done from outside. As an example of this principle: the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come, which are internal operations, but he is not within them.

 

[fastfredy0]

What about that pesky Jn 16:7?

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].
Yeah, that is a verse that could support your contention ... but I would say it is not explicit.
What does the Counselor do? Was the Counselor temporarily not doing "whatever" just while Christ was with them; possibly the Counselor was with them both before and after Christ. Is this specifically address to the apostles only and relate to miracles they would subsequently do? One can make all kinds of extrapolations to support this hypothesis and that hypothesis. Someone may even get it right; maybe you have it right.
Acts 17:28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being] .... Personally, I believe that if God suddenly didn't exist, then neither would anyone/anything else (I don't believe in deism). This He dwells in everyone.
I believe that the "indwelling" of the Spirit in the Bible pertains to all the benefits afforded Christians by the Spirit: filling, fruits, gifts, leading, sealing, witnessing, interceding, yahda, yahda ... but I can't find a biblical definition of the components of "indwelling" so everyone like me can create their own definition to some degree.

BW, there was supposed to be a smiley on my last post to you (#210).

Cool .. you owe me a "smiley" ... I'll lend you a couple

 

[fastfredy0]

Exactly, that's what I have been saying. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel, correct?

Agreed.

Faith requires knowledge of what is to be believed. The source of knowledge is the gospel.

 

[fastfredy0]

what does his living word mean to you?

I'll take a shot at a definition of the "living word".

My shot:
The "word" refers to information about God the source of which is God. 99% of the "word" today is the bible. The adjective "living" refers to God's gift to Christians causing them to understand assent to and trust (faith) that the "word" is true.

Darn .... I should have looked at the Gotquestions website and saved myself some time ... https://www.gotquestions.org/Living-Word.html ....hmmm, they did better than I again... lol

 

[Ritajanice]

I'll take a shot at a definition of the "living word".

My shot:
The "word" refers to information about God the source of which is God. 99% of the "word" today is the bible. The adjective "living" refers to God's gift to Christians causing them to understand assent to and trust (faith) that the "word" is true.

Darn .... I should have looked at the Gotquestions website and saved myself some time ... https://www.gotquestions.org/Living-Word.html ....hmmm, they did better than I again... lol

I must say, when I became Born Again, I went out and bought a Bible, the Living word of God...that was all I knew, that I was Born Again..an Amazing Spiritual birth....a “ living” spiritual birth, that only God’s living word can do..

A Born Again, doesn’t need to look it up to understand what it means....they know that the Holy Spirit testifies with their spirit, that they are a child of God/ Born Again....the Holy Spirit talks to their spirit and testifies with their spirit, that they are Born Again....it’s a revelation that only God can deliver through the Spirit....he is the one who glorifies the Father.....that’s why I’m always posting this scripture...the living word of God.

Hebrews 4:12

King James Version

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Eleanor]

Exactly, that's what I have been saying. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel, correct?

Or reading the gospel or the word of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Or reading the gospel or the word of God.

Exactly....” or the Living word of God”....Praise God for his living word..for without it...I would still be dead in sin/ darkness and alienated from him..

 

[fastfredy0]

A Born Again, doesn’t need to look it up to understand what it means.

A person, when initially born again, may be aware of their new birth. That's true enough. The the implementations and deeper understanding of the work of God is this regard makes study a definite asset and means of correction.

..the Holy Spirit talks to their spirit and testifies with their spirit, that they are Born Again.

Agreed ... but again, the main method by which God makes himself known is the Bible.

 

[Ritajanice]

A person, when initially born again, may be aware of their new birth. That's true enough. The the implementations and deeper understanding of the work of God is this regard makes study a definite asset and means of correction.

Absolutely..how do you think I know what I know now....all revealed to my heart by the Holy Spirit and all in God’s timing.

Agreed ... but again, the main method by which God makes himself known is the Bible.

Can you provide scripture...that the main method that God makes himself known...I’ve already posted this scripture..

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
.

This above is how God births his children in the Spirit....were talking a Living supernatural birth here...His Spirit is delivered to the heart/ spirit of his child....he is the one who opens our heart/ spirit...to receive this new heart/ spirit within.

 

[Ritajanice]

Agreed.

Faith requires knowledge of what is to be believed. The source of knowledge is the gospel.

The source of knowledge..is through the “ LIVING “ word of God...Faith is a result of being birthed in the Spirit...his word is “ breathed out” it’s “ Alive” and very active ,awesomely powerful!....there is no mistaking it as it’s delivered straight to the heart/ spirit.

Hebrews 4:12​

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King James Version​

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Eleanor]

Faith comes by hearing.....how do you hear the Holy Spirit ....birth you in the Spirit....what needs to happen?
There is a lot of controversy on here ,if that’s the right word....about being birthed in the Spirit.
I even pick up on some ,not understanding what the Spiritual birth even means....
You do not have to read God’s word for him to birth his children.
Afterwards...Yes......most definitely...as soon as I became Born Again by the Spirit of Christ....which I knew in my heart straight away, as the Holy Spirit was indwelling me ,taking up permanent residence in my heart/ spirit....he testified with my spirit that I was his child/ Born Again.........before all of that happened, there was much more...a very private time, where I was sobbing and crying , very much alone on my bed....searching within myself on my terrible traumatic life....God’s timing was completely and absolutely perfect......and a MIRACLE BIRTH I have always called it...a Mind Blowing birth.....Praise God.....no one has ever understood my testimony and most put it down to my emotions,......I understand that....because humans are just that...” human”.....our understanding of God’s ALMIGHTY POWER, is very limited..

No disrespect to anyone here....I have read word for word by a few ,that one is Born Again, it sounds like one is reading from the word of God....yet there is no spiritual life in the words......God’s word is a Living Spirit.....mighty and powerful....the rebirth is also a “living experience “....it’s not words from the Bible.....those are living words....what does his living word mean to you?....I ask out of curiosity....because as of yet, no one has answered my question so far and I’ve asked a number of times.

Well, first of all let me state that I understand your new birth. It was not too dissimilar to my own, born again while reading the Bible, by a power and with a joy that is almost indescribable.
But that power and joy eventually becomes more of a normality, as we move on into the actual understanding of NT teaching, nourishing our spirit and giving content to our faith.
Secondly, let me state that rebirth is experienced differently by different people. It seems God gives us what we personally need in that experience. So that all may not experience new birth in the same way.
And thirdly, toward that growth and nourishment of our spirit, I heartily recommend reading the whole Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to Bonded Leather (back cover). It's the best way to get a grounding in the mind of God which transforms our own mind.

 

[Ritajanice]

Well, first of all let me state that I understand your new birth. It was not too dissimilar to my own, born again while reading the Bible, by a power and with a joy that is almost indescribable.
But that power and joy eventually becomes more of a normality, as we move on into the actual understanding of NT teaching, nourishing our spirit and giving content to our faith.
Secondly, let me state that rebirth is experienced differently by different people. It seems God gives us what we personally need in that experience. So that all may not experience new birth in the same way.
And thirdly, toward that growth and nourishment of our spirit, I heartily recommend reading the whole Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to Bonded Leather (back cover). It's the best way to get a grounding in the mind of God which transforms our own mind.

Thanks for that knowledge @Eleanor ....I have been told also that the rebirth is experienced differently by other people, ..I guess I need to respect how others understand it....I just wish some would respect my birth...on saying that...I have been respected on this forum.

I apologise if I have been disrespectful in any way ,towards other believers birth, I just didn’t understand it ...now you have posted this information, I understand it much better and have peace about it...so, I thank God for that.

The renewing of our mind is ongoing for all believers and we’re all at different places of understanding.

 

[David1701]

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].
Yeah, that is a verse that could support your contention ... but I would say it is not explicit.
What does the Counselor do? Was the Counselor temporarily not doing "whatever" just while Christ was with them; possibly the Counselor was with them both before and after Christ. Is this specifically address to the apostles only and relate to miracles they would subsequently do? One can make all kinds of extrapolations to support this hypothesis and that hypothesis. Someone may even get it right; maybe you have it right.
Acts 17:28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being] .... Personally, I believe that if God suddenly didn't exist, then neither would anyone/anything else (I don't believe in deism). This He dwells in everyone.
I believe that the "indwelling" of the Spirit in the Bible pertains to all the benefits afforded Christians by the Spirit: filling, fruits, gifts, leading, sealing, witnessing, interceding, yahda, yahda ... but I can't find a biblical definition of the components of "indwelling" so everyone like me can create their own definition to some degree.



Cool .. you owe me a "smiley" ... I'll lend you a couple

Jesus told the disciples that the Father would send them another counsellor (in other words, while Jesus was with them, he was their counsellor/comforter/helper).

John 14:16,17 (WEB)
16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor, that he may be with you forever,—
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.

 

[Eleanor]

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].
Yeah, that is a verse that could support your contention ... but I would say it is not explicit.
What does the Counselor do? Was the Counselor temporarily not doing "whatever" just while Christ was with them; possibly the Counselor was with them both before and after Christ. Is this specifically address to the apostles only and relate to miracles they would subsequently do? One can make all kinds of extrapolations to support this hypothesis and that hypothesis. Someone may even get it right; maybe you have it right.
Acts 17:28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being] .... Personally, I believe that if God suddenly didn't exist, then neither would anyone/anything else (I don't believe in deism). This He dwells in everyone.
I believe that the "indwelling" of the Spirit in the Bible pertains to all the benefits afforded Christians by the Spirit: filling, fruits, gifts, leading, sealing, witnessing, interceding, yahda, yahda ... but I can't find a biblical definition of the components of "indwelling" so everyone like me can create their own definition to some degree.

Cool .. you owe me a "smiley" ... I'll lend you a couple

Remember, the Bible is not a theological treatise, but we can build a definition and theology on indwelling from what the Bible presents.
That's as good as it gets.

 

[Ghada]

There is so much controversy over these two testimonies from believers

I never chose God, he chose me...I never chose to be birthed in the Spirit.

Thoughts please?

Does the living word of God teach that we can choose to be birthed in the Spirit?

We can choose to believe Jesus, and open the door to His call, by which He may enter and sup with us.

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

This is taken out of context to say we have no choice in the matter of our faith, salvation, justification, and life for God.

In the context of paganism, Jesus was only saying that no man chooses Him to be there household God from among many Gods.

That was a common practise in the pagan world. Jesus is the Christ and true God, whether we believe it or not. He's not chosen by any man to be their own personal Christ for themselves, from among other christs.

Jesus isn't the true God by any man's 'vote'.

Many still do that by choosing between religions, whether Buddhism, Muslim, or Christianity.

We can see an example of that with Woody Allen in "Hanna and Her Sisters".

We always have a choice to believe God's word and do it or not. That's why many Christians sin.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Or reading the gospel or the word of God.

Yes Eleanor.