Have you ever been tested by the devil

[CrowCross]

The Gentile Church believes in an angel named Lucifer also called Satan, the Devil, etc., who is loose on the planet but 2 Peter 2:4 says the angels that sinned are locked up.

The bible is speaking of those angels that left their first estate....Gen 6 speaks of those fallen angels.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Basically your whole fallen angel theology is based off of a single verse.....which is a bad thing to do especially when there are many verses that show your position is problematic.

No, as I just wrote above, this involves many texts from both OT and NT that speak to the point of when the Satanic realm would be destroyed (which was in the AD 70 year). Agreed that it takes a lot to prove this. But the evidence in scripture is there nonetheless, and not in just a single verse.

But on the plus side, you and I apparently are on the same track when it comes to the origination of fallen angels, and the unclean spirits. Neither of us see any merit to the "line of Seth" view. And we take Genesis 6 for what it says about forbidden marriages having taken place between angels and human women and the children produced by those forbidden unions.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Except that the Bible talks about demonic possession and not mental illness. Then there was "Legion" who went into thousands of pigs. Nothing you have said here wipes away the testimony of the Bible and the church through the ages. It's just your personal opinion.

No, the Bible talks about something the Gentile Church has interpreted as being fallen angels and their spirits but there is nothing in the Old Testament defining nor describing in its pages the way the Gentile Church believes.
The word translated "Satan" is used of humans. Jesus called Peter the person "Satan" not that he was influenced or possessed by a Satan.
The word "Satan" in places is an adjective. How do you make an adjective a noun or personal pronoun and hope to come to the knowledge of the truth?
You can't.
Surely there were Israelites who had serious mental issues and sicknesses. Did Jesus fail to heal any of them? There's no mention of any of this. Or is there?
Seems someone with a mental retardation is out of luck with regard to Jesus healing any one of them because they either did not exist of Jesus didn't care or had no power to heal them and put them in their right mind (Mk. 5.)
No, not the church through the ages. Only one age: The Times of the Gentiles. And most of what the Gentile Church believes on this subject come straight out of medieval times and the ignorance of the time. There is nothing in the Old Testament with regard to this subject that Israel dealt with. Nothing.
It is a Gentile Church belief, NOT a Biblical truth.
If there's no Old Testament type, shadow, or precedent, there is no New Testament reality.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The bible is speaking of those angels that left their first estate....Gen 6 speaks of those fallen angels.

No, Genesis 6 speaks about human sons of God in covenant presenting themselves before the Lord.
Says nothing about angels.
It's just that people like to insert their own interpretations into the text that isn't there.

 

[CrowCross]

No, as I just wrote above, this involves many texts from both OT and NT that speak to the point of when the Satanic realm would be destroyed (which was in the AD 70 year). Agreed that it takes a lot to prove this. But the evidence in scripture is there nonetheless, and not in just a single verse.

Where is this AD 70 verse?

But on the plus side, you and I apparently are on the same track when it comes to the origination of fallen angels, and the unclean spirits. Neither of us see any merit to the "line of Seth" view. And we take Genesis 6 for what it says about forbidden marriages having taken place between angels and human women and the children produced by those forbidden unions.

And they were the angels chained up.

 

[CrowCross]

No, Genesis 6 speaks about human sons of God in covenant presenting themselves before the Lord.
Says nothing about angels.
It's just that people like to insert their own interpretations into the text that isn't there.

OK, I'm trying...but you lost me again. Where does Gen 6 say the human sons of God presented themselves before the Lord?

 

[jeremiah1five]

OK, I'm trying...but you lost me again. Where does Gen 6 say the human sons of God presented themselves before the Lord?

Does it have to say "human" when the whole of Scripture deals with humans?

 

[CrowCross]

Does it have to say "human" when the whole of Scripture deals with humans?

Let me try again...."presented themselves"

 

[jeremiah1five]

Let me try again...."presented themselves"

"Call upon the LORD", "presented themselves", both terminology describing worship and relationship.
Since the word "Satan" is used of human adversaries in the OT there is precedence that this "adversary" in Job is also human. The LORD gave this one permission to attack Job and in the process of time that's what happen. This "adversary" covenanted with the Sabeans/Chaldeans and they attacked Job's equity and made off with his livestock, etc. Completely reason-able.
There was a day Job's sons were partying and the weather was enough to destroy the oldest sons house but they escaped and the servants all died but one. Job's older children did not die in the house. There was no "replacing them" at the last chapter because they didn't die.
But WHO is the one really an "adversary" against Job? A fallen angel named "Lucifer" (a boy named Sue?)

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

So, God was "Satan," God was "adversary" against Job.
How does that work for those that say it was a fallen angel named "Lucifer/Satan?"
Explain that tidbit?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

"Call upon the LORD", "presented themselves", both terminology describing worship and relationship.
Since the word "Satan" is used of human adversaries in the OT there is precedence that this "adversary" in Job is also human. The LORD gave this one permission to attack Job and in the process of time that's what happen. This "adversary" covenanted with the Sabeans/Chaldeans and they attacked Job's equity and made off with his livestock, etc. Completely reason-able.
There was a day Job's sons were partying and the weather was enough to destroy the oldest sons house but they escaped and the servants all died but one. Job's older children did not die in the house. There was no "replacing them" at the last chapter because they didn't die.
But WHO is the one really an "adversary" against Job? A fallen angel named "Lucifer" (a boy named Sue?)

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

So, God was "Satan," God was "adversary" against Job.
How does that work for those that say it was a fallen angel named "Lucifer/Satan?"
Explain that tidbit?

You aren't going to convince anybody that has actually experienced demonic activity and even seen them. Of course you are entitled to your opinion that such things are merely the product of mental illness but that goes against the facts and not to mention that people that are not mentally ill also experience such things.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You aren't going to convince anybody that has actually experienced demonic activity and even seen them. Of course you are entitled to your opinion that such things are merely the product of mental illness but that goes against the facts and not to mention that people that are not mentally ill also experience such things.

HOW do you KNOW this "demonic" anything is of the fallen angels?
They're all locked up by God awaiting judgment day (2 Peter 2:4.)
"Demons" are human attitudes. Attitudes that are evil in the origin of minds that are not subject to God and attitudes that are clean, innocent, and good in which is necessary in worship and prayers to God as well as towards covenant brethren. We do not cast our pearls to swine, nor give that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant.)
There is NOTHING in the Old Testament of Israel dealing with these "devils" and "demons" the way the Gentile Church mis-interpret and believe this phenomenon is to be.
And if there is no Old Testament precedent there is no New Testament reality. All this is made up by Gentile Christians leaning on their own understanding in the vanity of their warped minds.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

HOW do you KNOW this "demonic" anything is of the fallen angels?
They're all locked up by God awaiting judgment day (2 Peter 2:4.)
"Demons" are human attitudes. Attitudes that are evil in the origin of minds that are not subject to God and attitudes that are clean, innocent, and good in which is necessary in worship and prayers to God as well as towards covenant brethren. We do not cast our pearls to swine, nor give that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant.)
There is NOTHING in the Old Testament of Israel dealing with these "devils" and "demons" the way the Gentile Church mis-interpret and believe this phenomenon is to be.
And if there is no Old Testament precedent there is no New Testament reality. All this is made up by Gentile Christians leaning on their own understanding in the vanity of their warped minds.

If you aren't a Christian, I don't know why you would come to this forum and say the things you are saying. This "Gentile Christian" thing you are talking about as if it is opposed to the New Testament is just made up nonsense. All the apostles in the New Testament, and Jesus himself, were Jewish, not Gentiles, and they spoke of Satan and his demons. The fact that the Old Testament doesn't mention demons very much has no bearing on this (even though it does indeed mention them).

You said, how do people KNOW it? This isn't rocket science. People know things simply because they just do. If you doubt it, just research some more and you will find out.

 

[CrowCross]

"Call upon the LORD", "presented themselves", both terminology describing worship and relationship.
Since the word "Satan" is used of human adversaries in the OT there is precedence that this "adversary" in Job is also human. The LORD gave this one permission to attack Job and in the process of time that's what happen. This "adversary" covenanted with the Sabeans/Chaldeans and they attacked Job's equity and made off with his livestock, etc. Completely reason-able.
There was a day Job's sons were partying and the weather was enough to destroy the oldest sons house but they escaped and the servants all died but one. Job's older children did not die in the house. There was no "replacing them" at the last chapter because they didn't die.
But WHO is the one really an "adversary" against Job? A fallen angel named "Lucifer" (a boy named Sue?)

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

So, God was "Satan," God was "adversary" against Job.
How does that work for those that say it was a fallen angel named "Lucifer/Satan?"
Explain that tidbit?

Beep, Beep, back the truck up....

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
....so your argument here would be the "sons of God" are people...and Satan tagged along as the people worshipped God.

OK....then who are these in Job 38?

4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its foundations set,
or who laid its cornerstone,d
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

...are you saying there were people watching God create the earth?????

You do see how your interpretation is crumbling?

 

[CrowCross]

"Demons" are human attitudes.

Sooooooooooooooo, what you are saying is that Jesus cast a "human attitude" into the pigs...and because of that they jumped into the sea?
Scripture upon request.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Have you ever been tested by the devil? because if you haven't you are doing something WRONG.? King James Version John 16:33 things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I have been tested by the devil and it was horrific. it lasted nearly 40 years.

Yes, quite a lot in fact. It's mainly through people that are evidently possessed. I don't know why I am targeted especially, as I am not famous or in the limelight. I do write a lot on the internet, so there's that maybe. It could also be familiar spirits, the same demons.

It's part and parcel of being a Christian. Which is probably why we hate this world so much and look forward to getting the hell out of here.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you aren't a Christian, I don't know why you would come to this forum and say the things you are saying. This "Gentile Christian" thing you are talking about as if it is opposed to the New Testament is just made up nonsense.

How could it be "nonsense?" The New Covenant is made between God and the house of Israel. If anything, Gentile Christians with whom God has made NO COVENANT attempt to steal everything God has given to the Jews His Chosen people and try to make it all their own, but it won't last. When the Times of the Gentiles ends - and it will end - God turns His full attention back to Israel THE SAME WAY when before the destruction of the Temple God had sent His Son to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and pretty much ignored Gentiles. Now, here's a Scripture from the Holy Spirit. Tell me which of these "items" God gave to Israel have been stolen by Gentile Christians:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

I know Gentile theology. The Romans letter was written by Paul, a Pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin and a Jewish Christian to Jewish Christians at Rome. But Gentile Christians read and teach it as though Paul wrote to Gentile Christians.
1. They steal the New Covenant Scriptures from Israel.
2. They teach they are descendant of Abraham and adopted by God.
3. They walk around as though they own the glory and a bag of chips.
4. They read, steal and teach that God had given them all the covenants God made specifically with the House of Israel when they read the Scriptures. In EVERY church throughout the world when pastors and teachers teach from the Bible most of them insert Gentiles as the ones in the narrative their Scripture passages are speaking about.
5. The same when they teach about the Law to their congregants on Sunday mornings. But Gentiles were NEVER under the Law.
6. They steal and teach that they are the ones who serve God alone to the exclusion of Jewish Christians and the truth of the Scripture that Paul in Romans 9:4 is speaking about Jews, the House of Israel.
7. They teach and steal the promises God gave to Israel directly through covenant or directly through the prophets God sent to His Chosen, covenanted people Israel.

All I am doing is bringing clarity to what the New Covenant Scriptures teach, and you think I'm 'out of line?' I don't think nor believe it reasonable that God spends 4000 from Adam, to Seth, to Eber, to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob and the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel making covenant after covenant to this specific family line and when Israel's Promised Messiah comes and goes God's Holy Spirit inspired writing are sent first to Gentiles to whom He's made no covenant and haven't even begun to be saved yet while the Temple is still standing. How arrogant and prideful can anyone be to think God's Holy Word which He's given to Israel be given to Gentiles who've been carried away by their dumb idols.
If you can't see Romans 9:4 that salvation is of the Jews and in this era, God is using Gentiles to make Israel jealous don't let me minimize what happens typically in a tri-angle love affair. Someone usually gets killed. You want to have the right mindset and attitude towards the apple of God's eye, Israel, when the gun goes off. Because when Christ returns the first thing He's going to do is subdue the Gentile Christian faction because they are truly out of control stealing what belongs to Israel and trying to make everything their own.

All the apostles in the New Testament, and Jesus himself, were Jewish, not Gentiles, and they spoke of Satan and his demons. The fact that the Old Testament doesn't mention demons very much has no bearing on this (even though it does indeed mention them).

Of course, it does. Types and shadows, prefigures, prophecies that give outline and not substance, covenants and mysteries that are hidden, and the like must ALL be in the Old Testament, or they have NO New Testament reality. And "Satan," and "devil(s)," do not have any presence in the Old Testament the way the Gentile Church today believes them to be and to the extent they believe them to be. Did you know Christ called Peter the person "Satan?" Do you know that "Satan" is used a couple of places in the Old Testament of humans? Do you know that "Satan" and "devil" are written by the Holy Spirit as adjectives? How can anyone make an adjective into a noun or personal pronoun and hope to come to the knowledge of the truth? The answer is they can't. Instead of picking up what's called "demonology in the 20th century go back to the first century and beyond and trace how this subject which was nothing to Israel has become an entity today in Gentile minds. It permeates literature, media, movies, music, you name it.

You said, how do people KNOW it? This isn't rocket science. People know things simply because they just do. If you doubt it, just research some more and you will find out.

Anything and everything that is available to be learned must be studied it doesn't just come to you.
Here, in one sentence you say "people know things simply because they just do" (without study and being taught), and in the next sentence you tell me to do 'research." Contradiction in terms. Make up your mind.
Even Paul had to study and contemplate, and pray, and study, and contemplate to know the things he knew. It didn't just come to him in one sitting. He did what we do today and that is search the Scriptures for in them you think they are of eternal life, and they are, they TEACH about Jesus Messiah. Paul had to ask, seek, and knock just like we do today. He had the OT writings and so do we along with the New Covenant Jewish writings and we study them to make ourselves approved of God in order to come to the knowledge of the truth. And for every born-again believer - Jew or Gentile - our learning is a progression from glory to glory, day in and day out. I don't know about you, but I spend almost a total of 23 hours a day thinking about Scripture and about 6 hours a day in a 24-hour period reading and studying the Scriptures. The Lord has made it that I have the time to do this.
Do you?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

How could it be "nonsense?" The New Covenant is made between God and the house of Israel. If anything, Gentile Christians with whom God has made NO COVENANT attempt to steal everything God has given to the Jews His Chosen people and try to make it all their own, but it won't last. When the Times of the Gentiles ends - and it will end - God turns His full attention back to Israel THE SAME WAY when before the destruction of the Temple God had sent His Son to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and pretty much ignored Gentiles. Now, here's a Scripture from the Holy Spirit. Tell me which of these "items" God gave to Israel have been stolen by Gentile Christians:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

I know Gentile theology. The Romans letter was written by Paul, a Pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin and a Jewish Christian to Jewish Christians at Rome. But Gentile Christians read and teach it as though Paul wrote to Gentile Christians.
1. They steal the New Covenant Scriptures from Israel.
2. They teach they are descendant of Abraham and adopted by God.
3. They walk around as though they own the glory and a bag of chips.
4. They read, steal and teach that God had given them all the covenants God made specifically with the House of Israel when they read the Scriptures. In EVERY church throughout the world when pastors and teachers teach from the Bible most of them insert Gentiles as the ones in the narrative their Scripture passages are speaking about.
5. The same when they teach about the Law to their congregants on Sunday mornings. But Gentiles were NEVER under the Law.
6. They steal and teach that they are the ones who serve God alone to the exclusion of Jewish Christians and the truth of the Scripture that Paul in Romans 9:4 is speaking about Jews, the House of Israel.
7. They teach and steal the promises God gave to Israel directly through covenant or directly through the prophets God sent to His Chosen, covenanted people Israel.

All I am doing is bringing clarity to what the New Covenant Scriptures teach, and you think I'm 'out of line?' I don't think nor believe it reasonable that God spends 4000 from Adam, to Seth, to Eber, to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob and the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel making covenant after covenant to this specific family line and when Israel's Promised Messiah comes and goes God's Holy Spirit inspired writing are sent first to Gentiles to whom He's made no covenant and haven't even begun to be saved yet while the Temple is still standing. How arrogant and prideful can anyone be to think God's Holy Word which He's given to Israel be given to Gentiles who've been carried away by their dumb idols.
If you can't see Romans 9:4 that salvation is of the Jews and in this era, God is using Gentiles to make Israel jealous don't let me minimize what happens typically in a tri-angle love affair. Someone usually gets killed. You want to have the right mindset and attitude towards the apple of God's eye, Israel, when the gun goes off. Because when Christ returns the first thing He's going to do is subdue the Gentile Christian faction because they are truly out of control stealing what belongs to Israel and trying to make everything their own.

Of course, it does. Types and shadows, prefigures, prophecies that give outline and not substance, covenants and mysteries that are hidden, and the like must ALL be in the Old Testament, or they have NO New Testament reality. And "Satan," and "devil(s)," do not have any presence in the Old Testament the way the Gentile Church today believes them to be and to the extent they believe them to be. Did you know Christ called Peter the person "Satan?" Do you know that "Satan" is used a couple of places in the Old Testament of humans? Do you know that "Satan" and "devil" are written by the Holy Spirit as adjectives? How can anyone make an adjective into a noun or personal pronoun and hope to come to the knowledge of the truth? The answer is they can't. Instead of picking up what's called "demonology in the 20th century go back to the first century and beyond and trace how this subject which was nothing to Israel has become an entity today in Gentile minds. It permeates literature, media, movies, music, you name it.

Anything and everything that is available to be learned must be studied it doesn't just come to you.
Here, in one sentence you say "people know things simply because they just do" (without study and being taught), and in the next sentence you tell me to do 'research." Contradiction in terms. Make up your mind.
Even Paul had to study and contemplate, and pray, and study, and contemplate to know the things he knew. It didn't just come to him in one sitting. He did what we do today and that is search the Scriptures for in them you think they are of eternal life, and they are, they TEACH about Jesus Messiah. Paul had to ask, seek, and knock just like we do today. He had the OT writings and so do we along with the New Covenant Jewish writings and we study them to make ourselves approved of God in order to come to the knowledge of the truth. And for every born-again believer - Jew or Gentile - our learning is a progression from glory to glory, day in and day out. I don't know about you, but I spend almost a total of 23 hours a day thinking about Scripture and about 6 hours a day in a 24-hour period reading and studying the Scriptures. The Lord has made it that I have the time to do this.
Do you?

Unfortunately, you like to argue instead of accepting facts given that would correct you. There is no contradiction in what I said. The contradiction is only in your mind. When I said people know stuff, you question that. When I say you should do more research you question that too. So obviously my question to you is, "how do you KNOW you are saved?" If you don't know that, that would be the equivalent of thousands of years of demonic activity witnessed by credible people that are not mentally ill.

Your question about knowledge is the land of epistemology. "How do you know what you know?". Faith is the exact opposite of skepticism and doubt. Do you know you are saved and that God exists 100%? If you do, that is where I can ask you how you know that, and you are not capable of proving it. The same is true of the demonic.

In other words, how do you know you are saved and that God exists?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Unfortunately, you like to argue instead of accepting facts given that would correct you. There is no contradiction in what I said. The contradiction is only in your mind. When I said people know stuff, you question that. When I say you should do more research you question that too. So obviously my question to you is, "how do you KNOW you are saved?" If you don't know that, that would be the equivalent of thousands of years of demonic activity witnessed by credible people that are not mentally ill.

Your question about knowledge is the land of epistemology. "How do you know what you know?". Faith is the exact opposite of skepticism and doubt. Do you know you are saved and that God exists 100%? If you do, that is where I can ask you how you know that, and you are not capable of proving it. The same is true of the demonic.

In other words, how do you know you are saved and that God exists?

Faith is the Greek word "pistis" and it means, "trust," "confidence," and a persons faith/trust is dependent upon his/her knowledge of the Word of God. A person has more knowledge they have more faith or more of God to trust. A person who has less knowledge would have less to trust of God and border on "O' ye of little faith."
We all have a measure of faith dependent upon our knowledge of the Word of God. God determines how much light a person receives to understand His Word. Some have more knowledge will have more faith/. A person who has less knowledge - like you - will have less faith. Just because you don't know what God has given me to know doesn't mean I'm wrong. Even Peter didn't understand everything Paul wrote but He trusted God enough to refer to his writings as "Scripture."
You do know what that means, yes?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yes, quite a lot in fact. It's mainly through people that are evidently possessed. I don't know why I am targeted especially, as I am not famous or in the limelight. I do write a lot on the internet, so there's that maybe. It could also be familiar spirits, the same demons.

When scripture tells us when all the members of the Satanic realm were gotten rid of in the past, we are no longer at liberty to define any experiences today as being "demonic". Demon possession can no longer take place if the demonic members were exterminated by God long ago. We are to make our experiences or perceptions of reality subject to the content of scriptures and not the other way around.