The Apostate Church: New Apostolic Reformation

[TATII]

And just so you don't think I am lacking in knowledge and discernment and think it necessary to give me lessons from kindergarten

Hi Arial...I'll work on it for you...and if I made you feel that way...that was not the intention...again I am sorry...the forums can be difficult often times.

Tatwo...

 

[TATII]

1. Who are the apostles?

I counted 20 something in the New Testament…Jesus Christ (Hebrews 3:1), Simon Peter (Matt. 10:2), Andrew (Matt. 10:2), James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2), John (Matt. 10:2), Philip (Matt. 10:3), Bartholomew (Matt. 10:3), Thomas (Matt. 10:3), Matthew (Matt. 10:3), James the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3), Thaddaeus (Matt. 10:3), or Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16), Simon the Zealot (Matt. 10:4), Judas Iscariot (Matt. 10:4), Matthias (Acts 1:26), Paul (Gal. 1:1), Barnabas (1 Cor. 9:5-6, Acts 14:4, 14), Andronicas (Rom. 16:7), Junias (Rom. 16:7)James, the Lord’s brother (Gal. 1:19), Silas (Silvanus) (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6), Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25) – The word apostolos does not appear in most English translations but does appear in the Greek, Strong’s word 652, Apostolos. Apollos (1 Corinthians 4:6-9 & 1 Corinthians 3:22), First of 2 Unnamed Apostles (2 Corinthians 8:23) – in many English versions it says messenger, but in Greek, Apostolos.

Tatwo...

 

[TATII]

2. What was their function in the church?

“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.” (Eph 4:11-16 NASB)

Tatwo...

 

[Arial]

I counted 20 something in the New Testament…Jesus Christ (Hebrews 3:1), Simon Peter (Matt. 10:2), Andrew (Matt. 10:2), James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2), John (Matt. 10:2), Philip (Matt. 10:3), Bartholomew (Matt. 10:3), Thomas (Matt. 10:3), Matthew (Matt. 10:3), James the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3), Thaddaeus (Matt. 10:3), or Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16), Simon the Zealot (Matt. 10:4), Judas Iscariot (Matt. 10:4), Matthias (Acts 1:26), Paul (Gal. 1:1), Barnabas (1 Cor. 9:5-6, Acts 14:4, 14), Andronicas (Rom. 16:7), Junias (Rom. 16:7)James, the Lord’s brother (Gal. 1:19), Silas (Silvanus) (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6), Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25) – The word apostolos does not appear in most English translations but does appear in the Greek, Strong’s word 652, Apostolos. Apollos (1 Corinthians 4:6-9 & 1 Corinthians 3:22), First of 2 Unnamed Apostles (2 Corinthians 8:23) – in many English versions it says messenger, but in Greek, Apostolos.

Tatwo...

The apostles were the 12 who were with Jesus (Jude replaced) and Paul. They were appointed to lay the foundation of Christ's church with Christ as the chief cornerstone. The foundation upon which the church is built, is the doctrinal content. The teachings that belong to his church. (Eph 2: 17- 22)The members of the body are the stones built on that foundation. (1 Peter 2:4-5) You cannot just go by the definition of apostles and say everyone who is sent is an apostle. The apostles appointed to the task (the content of which we have in their writings) had to meet certain specific requirements.

They had to be personally selected by Jesus.
They had to be a witness of Christ's resurrection.
They had to have accompanied Christ and learned his teachings. (Paul is the exeception to that last, but he was taught by the disciples and was appointed by the risen Christ, therefore a witness of his resurrection. (Acts 1:21-26)

 

[Arial]

“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.” (Eph 4:11-16 NASB)

Tatwo...

Those are offices, and the office of apostles was fulfilled by the Apostles in the NT to give us our foundation----our doctrine. That foundation is laid. It is not being added to.

 

[makesends]

(Paul is the exeception to that last, but he was taught by the disciples and was appointed by the risen Christ, therefore a witness of his resurrection. (Acts 1:21-26)

He too, was taught by Christ, as I understand it, not to mention his thorough pre-conversion knowledge of the then-available Scriptures.

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[Mr GLee]

I would offer.

Like all things two different kinds. Satan having no spiritual understanding will always make it about the temporal seen kind . The lust of the flesh, Lust of the eye the two-building block of false pride

The gospel the spiritual eternal things of Christ the husband the not seen kind of understanding that works in hearts

Today we have prophets. Simply those who declare the living will of another as it is written.

It's what believers do prophecy, preach the will of Christ in us with us he teaches comforts and guides. Sends them with beautiful feet (apostles) out two by two.

Two a metaphor is used in parables to represent what I call the dynamic duo. The Unseen Holy Father's gospel power made known by the flesh of Son of man Jesus seen. Making the invisible power visible. . . giving sight to the blind, ears to the deaf

It would seem to include all believers' men and woman as a kingdom of priest. Prophets sent as apostles

It would become true prophecy (sola scriptura) ???? Or the oral traditions of dying mankind????

Which prophecy. . of men, Islam or Buddha gods of men ??? . . .or Christ the husband the eternal father of all the nations?

Ask one self. Who sent you today in order to defend the faith of Christ's labor of love?

God is no longer brining any new living revelations sealed with 7 seals till the end of time

Antichrists . . another teaching authority other than sola scriptura. . False apostles, false prophets, false teachers sent with oral traditions of dying mankind. . . earthly inspired of the evil one

In that way do you consider yourself a true apostle of false today ?

 

[Eleanor]

The apostles were the 12 who were with Jesus (Jude replaced) and Paul. They were appointed to lay the foundation of Christ's church with Christ as the chief cornerstone. The foundation upon which the church is built, is the doctrinal content. The teachings that belong to his church. (Eph 2: 17- 22)The members of the body are the stones built on that foundation. (1 Peter 2:4-5) You cannot just go by the definition of apostles and say everyone who is sent is an apostle. The apostles appointed to the task (the content of which we have in their writings) had to meet certain specific requirements.

They had to be personally selected by Jesus.
They had to be a witness of Christ's resurrection.
They had to have accompanied Christ and learned his teachings. (Paul is the exeception to that last, but he was taught by the disciples and was appointed by the risen Christ, therefore a witness of his resurrection. (Acts 1:21-26)

Did Paul not receive his teaching in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4, 7-9), as Jesus received his teaching in heaven (Jn 3:13), unlike the prophets who received their reaching on earth?

 

[Arial]

Did Paul not receive his teaching from heaven (2 Co 12:1-4, 7-9), as Jesus received his teaching from heaven (Jn 3:13)?

Yes. Where else would it come from? But some of it was by means of the witness of the apostles---those received some directly from Jesus while he was present, and I believe much that could not be given until after his death and resurrection during the forty days before his ascension, and is much of what they gave us in their writings. In addition, and this would be applicable to Paul also, the teaching, inspiration, and equipping was continuous, given by the indwelling Holy Spirit. And by whatever means such as what we see of Paul in 2 Cor 12.. None exclude any of the others---if is all of God, by God, for God. And I realize that in my statement I was unintentionally excluding the others by focusing on the one.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes. Where else would it come from? But some of it was by means of the witness of the apostles---those received some directly from Jesus while he was present, and I believe much that could not be given until after his death and resurrection during the forty days before his ascension, and is much of what they gave us in their writings. In addition, and this would be applicable to Paul also, the teaching, inspiration, and equipping was continuous, given by the indwelling Holy Spirit. And by whatever means such as what we see of Paul in 2 Cor 12.. None exclude any of the others---if is all of God, by God, for God. And I realize that in my statement I was unintentionally excluding the others by focusing on the one.

I was thinking of Gal 1:11-12:
Just as Jesus received his teaching in heaven (Jn 3:13), and not on earth as did the prophets,
so Paul received his teaching in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4) and not on earth as did the apostles (Gal 1:11-12).

"The gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it;
rather I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." (Ga 1:11-12).

 

[Mr GLee]

I was thinking of Gal 1:11-12:
Just as Jesus received his teaching in heaven (Jn 3:13), and not on earth as did the prophets,
so Paul received his teaching in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4) and not on earth as did the apostles (Gal 1:11-12).

"The gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it;
rather I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." (Ga 1:11-12).

All teaching power (faith \belief\understanding) comes from the Faithful Father, our one unseen Holy God. The one good teaching master.

No power comes from his prophets /apostles like that of Jesus the chief apostle (sent messenger) Chief preacher

Jesus prophesied (declared) the will of the father. Saying not by my will Father (the powerful Faithful Creator). But yours with faithful power

Jesus the son of man born of woman was powerless.

The power of Christ's faithfulness is not accredited to his birth rather than the power of the Faithful "Let there be" Father at the resurrection second birth.

Jesus said marvel not mankind must be born of the Powerful Father. Jesus the Son of man did the powerful will of the Father with delight.

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

No prophecy (declaration) of the scripture (sola scriptura) is of human origin inspired from earth

If the Father does not teach or reveal the "spiritual unseen understanding", how could we know which of the sons of mankind are used to demonstrate the power of the Father seeing we understand after the unseen spiritual, not the literal temporal dying things. They will go up in smoke on the last days under the Sun

Satan having no spiritual understanding from the Father. . not subject to the gospel.

It would become guessing which of the apostles would fulfil the mystery. . . used to identify the work of the father (invisible).

He chose Peter the son of man to deceive all the nations of the world through the lying wonder that God is a Jewish man dying mankind as King of kings. the Son of man Jesus' form doing the will of the Almighty Faithfull Father when Peter rebuked the Father (Mathew 16)

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[TATII]

Greetings @Arial...

You seem very sure of yourself...there is probably nothing beneficial I could ever add to your understanding. I suppose that at some point in the life of a Christian they have to come face to face with the accountability of their faith and belief...those who teach are to be held to a greater standard due to the responsibility of "rightly dividing the Word of righteousness."

I do hope it goes well with you...however I see no real need to "converse" about these issues any longer....thank you for that which you shared with me.

Tatwo...