God-zilla, King of the Monsters

[ReverendRV]

Calvinists do not see God as Monstrous, however Non Calvinists see their description of God as such. Question for Calvinists: how would you characterize the Non Calvinist description of God; and why?

The Non Calvinist's description of the Calvinist's perception of God, is a Strawman. Think about it; God is not a Monster, so when an Atheist or a Non Calvinist calls God a Monster: this must be a Strawman Slur. If someone described a person of Ethnicity as a Monster, they would be a Racist. The Movie 'Song of the South' used a Racist reference to mock black people. The Movie was wrong, just as Non Calvinists are wrong to call our Exegetical perception of God a Monster. Racists provoke people by demeaning them, so please reign in the provocation; Let's just Debate the merits, or demerits, of Calvinism...

 

[QVQ]

How would you characterize the non Calvinist description of God and why?

Job 40:8 “Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified?

 

[ReverendRV]

Job 40:8 “Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified?

Do you mean to say Calvinists annul God's Judgment, and condemn him?

It's okay, this is just discussion leading to Debate...

 

[QVQ]

Do you mean to say Calvinists annul God's Judgment, and condemn him?

Non-Calvinist would annul God's Judgement and condemn Him.

"The question posed, "How would you characterize the non-Calvinist description of God and why."
The characterization of God as a monster is to annul His judgements, and justify themselves in whatever they, as gods if they were gods would judge to be godly.

 

[ReverendRV]

Non-Calvinist would annul God's Judgement and condemn Him.

"The question posed, "How would you characterize the non-Calvinist description of God and why." The description of God as a monster is to annul His judgements, and justify themselves in whatever they, as gods if they were gods would judge as godly.

How did you like my point that it may be Prejudiced to call Calvinism Monstrous?

 

[Arial]

Calvinists do not see God as monstrous, however, Non Calvinists see their description of God as such. Question for Calvinists: How would you characterize the non Calvinist description of God and why?

The Non Calvinist's description of the Calvinist's perception of God, is a Strawman. Think about it; God is not a Monster, so when an Atheist or a Non Calvinist calls God a Monster: this must be a Strawman Slur. If someone described a person of Ethnicity as a Monster, they would be a Racist. The Movie 'Song of the South' used a Racist reference to mock black people. The Movie was wrong, just as Non Calvinists are wrong to call our Exegetical perception of God a Monster. Racists provoke people by demeaning them, so please reign in the provocation; Let's just Debate the merits, or demerits, of Calvinism...

I would characterize it as upside down. They define what love is for example, and define it according to their own definition, then say God's love has to be just like theirs. Same with justice. They create an image of God that they can deal with and like and then say that is who God is. They do not get their theology from God Himself, in HIs word.

In doing so they come up with "He must be fair." Which incidentally they hold God to a higher standard of fair than they themselves live up to. For God to be fair He must treat all people exactly the same.

"God would never violate man's free will, and if He does He is a monster and forces some people to love Him, while stomping on other people.

There entire system is man centered and has little concept of who is the Creator and who is the creature.

 

[QVQ]

How did you like my point that it may be Prejudiced to call Calvinism Monstrous?

A "straw man" is a caricature. It is a common literary device.
An example of "straw man" is Dawkins characterization of God wherein he defined (created) a god, and then refuted his own creation
The characterization of the non-Calvinist is that the god they define as "Calvinist" is a caricature, therefore a fiction.
Fiction is acceptable in literature. And caricature, stereotyping and reviling is also acceptable.
James Madison, a Calvinist, proposed that man will think, therefore better to let them speak their mind freely.
Those ideas of Dawkins are in the minds of men and if they can't speak openly, they will cling more to their thoughts and speak in secret. Better to have it out in the open where it can be refuted.
Ideas can be refuted, corrected only if those ideas are freely expressed and debated.
It is an ignorance of Calvinism that prompts the "god monster" characterization so let the opinion be voiced so Calvinist can have their say.
Come, let us reason together.

Just my personal experience: Any talk about God, right or wrong, good or bad, gets me to thinking about God. That is a very good thing. Even a negative recalls the mind to God. I was very interested in Dawkins straw man because it prompted me to consider God carefully. Everything works together for the glory of God.

 

[Carbon]

Calvinists do not see God as Monstrous, however Non Calvinists see their description of God as such. Question for Calvinists: how would you characterize the Non Calvinist description of God; and why?

Well, if someone does not correctly understand who God is in Scripture, how can they see a correct description elsewhere?

God is unknowable and unsearchable. What we can know about God is revealed in His word, but people would rather put their idle factories to production. When we get a start from the word and then build on it with what we think it should be, we lose site.

The Non Calvinist's description of the Calvinist's perception of God, is a Strawman.

Of course, it is.

 

[Carbon]

I would characterize it as upside down. They define what love is for example, and define it according to their own definition, then say God's love has to be just like theirs. Same with justice. They create an image of God that they can deal with and like and then say that is who God is. They do not get their theology from God Himself, in HIs word.

In doing so they come up with "He must be fair." Which incidentally they hold God to a higher standard of fair than they themselves live up to. For God to be fair He must treat all people exactly the same.

"God would never violate man's free will, and if He does He is a monster and forces some people to love Him, while stomping on other people.

There entire system is man centered and has little concept of who is the Creator and who is the creature.

That's hitting the nail on the head!

 

[ReverendRV]

Well, if someone does not correctly understand who God is in Scripture, how can they see the correct description elsewhere?

God is unknowable and unsearchable. What we can know about God is revealed in His word, but people would rather put their idle factories to production. When we get a start from the word and then build on it with what we think it should be, we lose site.

Of course, it is.

My OP is from my Post in the Soteriology 101 Forum on Farcebook. The first paragraph is the question from a Provisionist, the second was my response...

 

[QVQ]

What we can know about God is revealed in His word, but people would rather put their idle factories to production. When we get a start from the word and then build on it with what we think it should be, we lose site.

That is worth repeating!

 

[His clay]

Calvinists do not see God as Monstrous, however Non Calvinists see their description of God as such. Question for Calvinists: how would you characterize the Non Calvinist description of God; and why?

The Non Calvinist's description of the Calvinist's perception of God, is a Strawman. Think about it; God is not a Monster, so when an Atheist or a Non Calvinist calls God a Monster: this must be a Strawman Slur. If someone described a person of Ethnicity as a Monster, they would be a Racist. The Movie 'Song of the South' used a Racist reference to mock black people. The Movie was wrong, just as Non Calvinists are wrong to call our Exegetical perception of God a Monster. Racists provoke people by demeaning them, so please reign in the provocation; Let's just Debate the merits, or demerits, of Calvinism...

It is a Satanic tactic. Having read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, I agree with another person who stated the following after reading Christopher Hitchens. "It's mind numbing." In short, it is much the same as hitting your hand with a hammer over and over; eventually, you lose feeling to the blasphemy because you have heard it over and over. It is one of the most wicked, God-hating tactics. Clearly, the late Hitchens and Dawkins were not Christians. Their hatred of God and Christianity comes out unmistakably in their work. Sadly, this mind-numbing blasphemy tactic is employed by those who claim the name of Christ. I feel like Paul at the beginning of Romans 6. May it never be! But we are reminded that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the ruler of this age. Hence, I have to call a spade a spade. When another blasphemes God; such action is clearly Satanic.

The goal seems rather simple, to desensitize the Christian to the glory of God. To replace wonder and awe with the Satanic doubt, "Hath God really said?" To twist good into evil. To desensitize the Christian to libel, slander, and lies against God, so that the other person can replace the true God with their idol. The idol came out clearly in Dawkins and Hitchens; they saw fit to position themselves above the inferior straw man they derided and castigated. They were the judge and jury with their evolved sense of superiority over the straw man. Sadly, this idol takes a very similar form for those who claim to be Christians and yet find themselves to be the judge and jury over what they slander as monstrous.

True Christians, please don't fall prey to slander. Let the word of God shape your mind and beliefs. Be in submission to Him. God is God, and we are clearly not. God will judge their hatred of Him. What I hate the most is that these debates often take truths, like election and predestination, that should promote our worship of our great God, and the debates debase what should inflame our hearts for God. I am thankful that God is in charge. Our God is in the heavens, and He does whatever He pleases. Those who walk in pride He is able to humble, as Nebuchadnezzar found out the hard way. Our place is to trust and love Him. Because God is God, then we can love and trust in Him. We aren't great and wonderful, just a bunch of saved sinners, but God who is rich in mercy has saved us. Don't let Satan steal your worship of God.