God did not impute any sin to His own Son

[Ghada]

The faith from the heart that God saves by, cannot believe God imputed the man Jesus with sin on a cross and cursed Him by law:

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The faith that saves is Jesus Christ raised from the dead by God.

Romans{1:3} Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; {1:4} And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is eternal proof, that He was indeed the Son of God with power on earth, and not a blasphemer worthy of death by a cursed cross.

Isa 53:3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

All at the cross impute Jesus with sin and esteemed Him not of God, and worthy of death by law of God. The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead proves them all wrong.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

His resurrectioin still proves them wrong today, that continue to believe God made Him a curse on a tree by law, and so call Him accursed of God.

Anyone still esteeming Jesus was indeed cursed and smitten of God on the cross, must reject God raising Him from the dead, and proving otherwise.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Some believe that God imputed sin to His Son on the cross, but did not judge Him a sinner.

Objections:
--No Scripture says God ever imputed sin to His Son. The only ones imputing any sin to the Son, are false accusers of Him blaspheming God by calling Himself the Son of God:

Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death

---The only ones imputing the Son cursed under the law, are His false accusers and ignorant believers esteeming Him smitten of God, by the law of blasphemy.

Lev 24:16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death,

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

If God imputed sin to Jesus, then all them at the cross esteeming Him smitten by God, was true.

---God is the Spirit that imputes righteousness or sin to souls, not bodies. God judges our souls by our deeds, not our bodies.

2Sa 19:19And said unto the king, Let not my lord impute iniquity unto me, neither do thou remember that which thy servant did perversely the day that my lord the king went out of Jerusalem, that the king should take it to his heart.

Lev 17:4And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Psa 32:2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Bible imputing is judging the person with the act, whether good or bad. The only ones imputing sin to a person, that is does not commit the sin, is a false accuser, whether knowingly or ignorantly.

---The only Scripture of God imputing anything to His Son, both in prophecy and in the record, is imputing Him righteous and being well-pleased with Him:

Isa 42:21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Mat 12:18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Mat 3:17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

---If God imputes sin to a person, but not to the soul, then God imputes righteousness to a person, but not to the soul.

If Jesus was imputed with sin, but not judged a sinner, then those imputed with His righteousness are not judged righteous.

2Co 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If this means the Father imputed the Son with sin, then the Son was made to be a sinner, not 'as' nor 'like' a sinner. Which contradicts the Scripture that the Son knew no sin in His soul, nor did His soul sin.

If the Son was not made to be a sinner by God imputing Him with sin, then we are not made to be righteous, by God imputing the Son's righteousness to us. Which contradicts the Scripture, that we are made to be righteous by imputed righteousness of God.

---Imputing anything to a person, but not the soul, is separating the person from their own soul. Or is imputing sin or righteousness to a body, but not a the soul. And so, the body and soul are separated on earth, which is only at death in the grave.

---And finally, God imputing anything to the Son, is God imputing it to God, else the Word and Son are not God.

If the sin bearing of the Son on the cross was imputed sin by God, then God imputed sin to God the Son and God the Father and God the Holy Ghost, else God the Father, Son, and Spirit are not one.

If the sinbearing of the Son is the imputed sin of the Father, than the Father and the Spirit are sin bearers with the Son.

What crazy, whacked out reasoning in your words.

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:19–21.

Do you know Greek? In our best translations from the Greek texts the words "to be" are not in any of the best texts used to translate this verse (vs. 21.)
So, it would read, "for he hath made him sin for us..."
Made Him sin.
Think about that for a second. God the Father "made Him sin" who knew no sin.
How do you think that was done? Then there are passages saying, "sin was placed upon Him."
Both are correct.

Then there is the words in verse nineteen..."To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;"

So, there is some imputing going on, which if God did not send the son then people's sins, especially His elect for whom Christ died, would have imputed their sins to them. But what does "imputing mean"?
Greek Word: λογίζομαι
Transliteration: logizomai [Greek: Strong's #3049]

Strong's: middle (voice) from [#3056] (logos); to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literal or figurative)

Because of Christ's voluntary sacrifice God's elect people did not have their sins "inventoried" [against them] or "estimated" against them. Their sin - because under the Law that's why the high priest laid his hands upon the sacrifice to "place the people's sins symbolically upon the sacrifice" - that was earlier upon the literally people and inventoried against them by God, so, too, God placed the sins of His elect people upon Him. But it also says God "made Him sin" who knew no sin. If there was no imputation upon God's elect, then that same "imputation" was "estimated" against the Son. It was His to bear. And since the wages of sin is death, then that's what killed Him. It wasn't the spear, or the cross. Those are merely instruments of His death. Even if Jesus merely suffered a stroke or heart attack, those are merely instruments that caused His death. Same with cancer, or some incurable disease.
Or even old age. Instruments. It was sin "estimated" and "inventoried" and "placed upon Him" and "[Him] made sin" who knew no sin which killed Him.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

What crazy, whacked out reasoning in your words.

I'm a bit confused by this thread. It seems esoteric, like trying to establish doctrine about something where there is no explicit teaching in Scripture.

Jesus took away the sins of the world. Did he do this by "becoming" sin or 'being found guilty of all our collective sin?' I agree with you. We don't really need to know the HOW of God's design becoming manifest.

 

[Red Baker]

The faith from the heart that God saves by, cannot believe God imputed the man Jesus with sin on a cross and cursed Him by law:

Ghada, you are past being help, nothing short of a miracle from heaven, can open your blinded eyes.

With this statement above (and you had so many more, that time would not allow us to cover all of your corrupt positions you have come to hold to) you have declared that Abraham, David, Paul, and all of the very elect did not have the faith of God's elect. Romans 4:1-4; Galatians 3:13, etc.

The faith from the heart that God saves by

Not sure why I'm even brothing mentioning this, for I'm sure it will go right over your head.

Man's faith is not the means of him being born of God, it is the evidence of being born again, not the means thereof. Jesus Christ secured our new birth for us by his faith and obedience to God. God imputes the righteousness of his Son to our account freely by grace alone without works our man's part, including faith which is a work of the law btw.

The faith from the heart that God saves by

Ghada, do you know what is in man's heart by nature, that is, in the old man? Every wicked, and evil, sinful deeds that could possibly be thought of~everything but thoughts toward God in a loving way. Our hearts by nature no man living can know the depths of wickedness hidden therein! I can assure you that faith was not there, impossible, nor could it be without first having a new man created within them~for all men by nature are at enmity against God, not just an enemy, which is bad enough, but are at war if breathing! Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 8:7, etc.

You do not understand Romans 10:9, (and you are not alone, btw) Paul is not speaking of regeneration, but of one's practical salvation (for better knowledge~Romans 10:1-4) from seeking to be justified by one's own works, showing them (those that fear God as some of Israel did, yet they had not totally looked to Christ who is the end of the law for righteousness)~another study for another day.

Your errors are too many to keep chasing.

 

[Alive]

Ghada, you are past being help, nothing short of a miracle from heaven, can open your blinded eyes.

With this statement above (and you had so many more, that time would not allow us to cover all of your corrupt positions you have come to hold to) you have declared that Abraham, David, Paul, and all of the very elect did not have the faith of God's elect. Romans 4:1-4; Galatians 3:13, etc.

Not sure why I'm even brothing mentioning this, for I'm sure it will go right over your head.

Man's faith is not the means of him being born of God, it is the evidence of being born again, not the means thereof. Jesus Christ secured our new birth for us by his faith and obedience to God. God imputes the righteousness of his Son to our account freely by grace alone without works our man's part, including faith which is a work of the law btw.

Ghada, do you know what is in man's heart by nature, that is, in the old man? Every wicked, and evil, sinful deeds that could possibly be thought of~everything but thoughts toward God in a loving way. Our hearts by nature no man living can know the depths of wickedness hidden therein! I can assure you that faith was not there, impossible, nor could it be without first having a new man created within them~for all men by nature are at enmity against God, not just an enemy, which is bad enough, but are at war if breathing! Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 8:7, etc.

You do not understand Romans 10:9, (and you are not alone, btw) Paul is not speaking of regeneration, but of one's practical salvation (for better knowledge~Romans 10:1-4) from seeking to be justified by one's own works, showing them (those that fear God as some of Israel did, yet they had not totally looked to Christ who is the end of the law for righteousness)~another study for another day.

Your errors are too many to keep chasing.

Please let’s make it about the post and not the poster. Its the rules, man.

 

[Red Baker]

Please let’s make it about the post and not the poster. Its the rules, man.

Sorry

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm a bit confused by this thread. It seems esoteric, like trying to establish doctrine about something where there is no explicit teaching in Scripture.

That's typically the way most posts read. There's a bad habit of members posting contradictory comments when a Scripture passage declares otherwise. An example is the question 'who are God's Chosen?'
Deuteronomy 7 says it is Israel and even the knowledge of the Scripture being written to and for the Hebrew children of Israel by their prophets and other people a response will ignore the fact that the Pentateuch was written by Moses to and for the children of Israel, the Psalms written by David, Solomon, etc., and these writings undoubtedly reveal much about Israel's relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and say God's elect is the Church (which they say are Gentiles which contradicts the bible), or the writings of the Prophets are written to and for the children of Israel and whose prophets are sent by God to the children of Israel.

Or the question was 'who did Christ die for' and a passage in Galatians 4:4-5 says "those under the Law" which identifies Israel. No matter the Scripture people will comment against the bible.

Jesus took away the sins of the world.

Not the world at large, but the world of Jews. Read the context.
Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken. Because of misunderstanding the context of the Greek word "world" Gentiles - who may be 99% of the membership here) understand the word to mean everyone ever born on the planet or were alive in the past and are alive now and will be born in the future.
This is a breaking of Scripture.
They will agree Jesus came and fulfilled the Law which is correct. Then they'll fail to understand what that means (or the do understand it) and still say Jesus died for everyone in the world and completely ignore that if Jesus fulfilled the Law, and under the Law the animal sacrifice was to atone yearly for the children of Israel they would change what was written in Scripture to include the "world" of Gentiles when the animal sacrifice was to atone specifically to and for the children of Israel. To make John 3:16 to include Gentiles as those who Jesus died for breaks the Scripture and what was written in the bible. If Jesus fulfilled the Law, then He fulfilled the Law which records the animal sacrifice was to atone for the sins of the children of Israel ONLY. The high priest never left Israel and travel to Gentile lands and offer sacrifice for them. Now, if the bible says the high priest did that then 'you'd' have no argument from me, but Scripture doesn't say that.

Did he do this by "becoming" sin or 'being found guilty of all our collective sin?' I agree with you. We don't really need to know the HOW of God's design becoming manifest.

The bible says - when rightly understood - is that Christ "was made" sin, He was "made sin" who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Christ.
Ok, the bible says that. Now, let's interpret the "we" in the passage. Who are the "we" that were made the righteousness of God in Christ. The only answer is the children of Israel.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

Or the question was 'who did Christ die for' and a passage in Galatians 4:4-5 says "those under the Law" which identifies Israel. No matter the Scripture people will comment against the bible.

How do you interpret Romans 1:16 (Voice)
16 For I am not the least bit embarrassed about the gospel. I won’t shy away from it, because it is God’s power to save every person who believes: first the Jew, and then the non-Jew.

 

[Josheb]

Some believe that God imputed sin to His Son on the cross, but did not judge Him a sinner.

Objections:
--No Scripture says God ever imputed sin to His Son.

2 Corinthians 5:21 proves otherwise.

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

The only ones imputing any sin to the Son, are false accusers of Him blaspheming God by calling Himself the Son of God

2 Corinthians 5:21 proves otherwise, and the rest of the op is poorly reasoned. Something very important has been left out: The Christological nature of all the OT sacrifices and the fact the sins of the person/people were laid upon the sacrifice.

Leviticus 16:20-22
When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat. Then Aaron shall lay both of his hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and he shall lay them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who stands in readiness. The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a solitary land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.

That's huge lapse, and a hugely fatal lapse.

1 Peter 2:24
...and he himself bore our sins in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by his wounds you were healed.

He bore our sins in his body and was made sin. That is the definition of imputation!

Impute: represent as being done, caused, or possessed by someone; attribute.







And, for the record, righteousness was not imputed to Jesus; it is inherent in him. He cannot be other than righteous.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How do you interpret Romans 1:16 (Voice)
16 For I am not the least bit embarrassed about the gospel. I won’t shy away from it, because it is God’s power to save every person who believes: first the Jew, and then the non-Jew.

Thanks for asking.
One problem is the translation you are using.
Here is the same verse from the KJV:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:15–16.

When Christians read the word "Gentile" in the New Covenant writings (Matthew to Revelation) there is a tendency to identify the reference as non-Hebrew Gentile, but this is not always the case. There are three kinds of Gentiles that can be identified in the New Covenant writings when one comes across "Gentile."

First, Jesus said "Scripture cannot be broken." This means He was referring to the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. Saul refers to the same Hebrew Scripture in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16–17.

Scripture cannot be broken means there can be no interpretation of Scripture - in this case the New Covenant writings - that violates what has been written in the Hebrew Scripture. There is no adding after the fact, no changing what's been written, and no subtracting from what has been written. Scripture cannot be broken. But Gentiles break Scripture and violate what God has written in His Word constantly. In fact, mostly all the Constantinian Gentile theology that's out there in 'mainstream' Gentile books and sermons from the pulpit cannot have their doctrine without violating Scripture of what's been written.

Here is a main doctrine of Gentiles today and they teach that non-Hebrew Gentiles ("the world") have been grafted into the natural Olive tree and teach non-Hebrew Gentiles are now in the Abraham Covenant. Here's what God's Word says as to who is in the Abraham covenant:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:6–7.

The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant. But when Gentile Christians read Saul's letters, they interpret his words to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham covenant thereby breaking Scripture and violating what has been written. Now, tell me, do you see non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant? Do non-Hebrew Gentiles come from two Hebrew parents, in this case, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and his married niece, Sarai/Sarah? Can a non-Hebrew child be born from two Hebrew parents??? No, that is impossible. But that doesn't matter to Gentile Christians today and in the past who through interpreting "Gentile" in the New Covenant writings they say non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant thus breaking Scripture. But they don't care. Their interpretations are more important that what the bible says. Are you following me?

Now to your passage in Romans 1:16. You are using a new age modern bible translation that was translated from the Revised Version of Greek texts by Westcott & Hort (1881) and their translation committee of the late 19th century. Look these two idiots up and study how we came into all these translations that were translated using their Greek text New Testament (1881.)

Who or what "Greeks" is Saul referring? Does he mean ONLY the Greeks? What about the Italians, Russians, Germans, or French? Why is the gospel the power of God able to save Jews first and Greeks (only) second? Is that what Saul is really saying? But your translation says "non-Jew" which is a mistranslation. How do you go from specific "Greeks" to every "non-Jew"? How do 'you' make that jump?

As I said above when the New Covenant writings (Matthew to Revelation) speak about "Gentile(s)" there are three kinds of Gentiles.
One is the Gentile proselyte. This person is a committed to Israel person who is circumcised and has vowed to raise his family according to the Law of Moses. This person is a citizen of Israel, observes the Law, its feasts, its holy days, everything a Jew would observe. But they can be a non-Hebrew Gentile, or they can be of mixed heritage - half-Jew and half-Gentile, like the Samaritans in the gospel. Samaritans are the offspring of the Assyrians and Babylonians after the Jews were conquered and taken captive into exile for 70 years. Not every Jew married another Jew. And any Jews that were left behind in the middle east who were not captured did not have homes to go to as their nations, cities, towns, and their northern Temple built in Samaria after the Assyrians took the northern kingdom captive. Years later after the Babylonians defeated the Assyrians they went against the southern kingdom of Judah and destroyed them and took them captive and the Assyrian Jew-problem became a Babylonian Jew-problem. So, you have a non-Hebrew Gentile that are called proselytes. They can also be of mixed heritage, which in this case, if this is so and are half-Jew and half-Gentiles, they would be in the Abraham covenant because no matter the DNA dilution they are still Abraham's seed, even of halved.

Then, there is the Gentile God-Fearer, like Cornelius and the Roman centurion. These can be non-Hebrew Gentile, and they are uncommitted, uncircumcised, Gentiles. When I say "uncommitted" that means the only thing they haven't done is become circumcised. Everything else is as the proselyte - they are committed to the Torah and are allies with Israel (the Jews.)
The other Gentile mentioned in the New Covenant writings is the non-Hebrew Gentile. There's no Hebrew blood in their veins or ancestry.

Now, if the Scripture says the covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed, and there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned or named in Genesis 17:7, then to say for whatever reason non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant when God is explicit and specific and says this covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed, then there can be no Gentiles added to this covenant after its been written and after the Scripture has been closed. There is no mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew Covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New) anywhere in the bible. And do you know why?
Because God made no covenant with any non-Hebrew Gentiles.

My position is that if there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned or named when the three covenants were made by God between God, Abraham and Abraham's seed, and it violates Scripture to say non-Hebrew Gentiles are now in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, or New Covenants after the fact and after thousands of years of the existence of the Hebrew Scripture and the New Covenant writings. When reading "Gentiles" in the New Covenant writings one must determine and discern "Which Gentiles" is being referred to? And then there's the language and the context. A proselyte and God-Fearer can be allied with Israel, circumcised or uncircumcised, etc., and observe God's Law and be member of the commonwealth of Israel WITHOUT being in their covenants.

All three covenants are between God and Abraham and his seed (Abrahamic Covenant), between God and the children of Jacob/Israel (Mosaic Covenant), and between God and both Houses of Israel (northern kingdom) and Judah (southern kingdom) which is the New Covenant (see: Jer. 31:31-34.)
And in each of the three covenants there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of these covenants. It's in the bible. God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.


My study has shown me that any so-called Gentile today or in the past is truly born again the reason for this ius there is at least one Hebrew/Jewish parent is the person's ancestry and if so, then they are Abraham's seed no matter the dilution of the DNA in their blood. They can live as Gentile - which is what some Jews did after their exile. They can also live as Jews. But if they are born again then according to God's Promises, they are Abraham's seed and are in covenant.
But non-Hebrew Gentiles got nothing coming to them of God because God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. And the New Covenant writings? All they are is discussion, explanation, and trying to understand and make sense of the New Covenant era Israel/Jews found themselves in after Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit's arrival. On Pentecost three thousand Jews were born again. No Gentiles. There may have been mixed heritage Jew/Gentile who were born again along with Jews, but it only shows God keeping His Promise to Abraham and to Abraham's seed to send the Holy Spirit OF PROMISE to Israel because that's who God Promised the Holy Spirit to.
So, who are the "Greeks" being mentioned in Roman 1:16? Identify who these "Greeks" are?
What is the Greek word translated "Greeks" in Rom. 1:16? And are these really non-Jew?

God Promised His Holy Spirit to the Hebrews/Jews. He never Promised Him to non-Hebrew Gentiles.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye [Jews] shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38–39.

The Holy Spirit was Promised to God's people the Hebrews/Jews. Would God break His Promise after the promise was made to include non-Hebrew Gentiles? If so, where the passage?

 

[Ghada]

makesends said:
We are not imputing sin to him.

You have stopped listening with my first sentence. I didn't say we don't believe sin was imputed to him. I said WE don't impute it to him. God did. Not us.

Isa 53:34He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

The prophecy is of everyone at the cross despising Jesus, and esteeming God imputed Him with sin of blasphemy and was smitten of God.

The prophecy is proof of their unbelief in Jesus Christ the Son of God, while hanging on a cross, not of their right judgment.

Them at the cross were imputing God with imputing the Son guilty.

We don't even have the authority nor the ability to do such a thing.

And yet they all did so at the cross, and some still do so today.

Many people on earth impute to God evil things that He does not do. And the worst evil imputed to the true God, is that He esteemed His own Son Jesus Christ guilty and worthy of death on a crused cross.

Only the god of this world still preaches that, and His false accusers that agree.

Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Jesus was not guilty of blasphemy, by calling Himself the Son of God, nor did God make Him accursed on a cross to be smitten of Him by law.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

 

[Red Baker]

Treasury of David

Charles Spurgeon


PSALM 22
​

TITLE. "To the chief Musician. To the tune, "The Hind of the morning". A Psalm of David."

This ode of singular excellence was committed to the most excellent of the temple songsters; the chief among ten thousand is worthy to be extolled by the chief Musician; no meaner singer must have charge of such a strain; we must see to it that we call up our best abilities when Jesus is the theme of praise.

Our Lord Jesus is so often compared to a hind, and his cruel huntings are so pathetically described in this most affecting psalm, that we cannot but believe that the title indicates the Lord Jesus under a well-known poetical metaphor; at any rate, Jesus is the Hind of the morning concerning whom David here sings.

SUBJECT. This is beyond all others THE PSALM OF THE CROSS. It may have been actually repeated word by word by our Lord when hanging on the cruel tree; it would be too bold to say that it was so, but even a casual reader may see that it might have been.

It begins with, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" and ends, according to some, in the original with "It is finished." For plaintive expressions uprising from unutterable depths of woe we may say of this psalm, "there is none like it."

It is the photograph of our Lord's saddest hours, the record of his dying words, the lachrymatory of his last tears, the memorial of his expiring joys.

David and his afflictions may be here in a very modified sense, but, as the star is concealed by the light of the sun, he who sees Jesus will probably neither see nor care to see David.

Before us we have a description both of the darkness and of the glory of the cross, the sufferings of Christ and the glory which shall follow. Oh for grace to draw near and see this great sight! We should read reverently, putting off our shoes from off our feet, as Moses did at the burning bush, for if there be holy ground anywhere in Scripture it is in this psalm.

DIVISION.

From the commencement to the twenty-first verse is a most pitiful cry for help.

From verse 21 to 31 is a most precious foretaste of deliverance.

The first division may be subdivided at the tenth verse, from verse 1 to 10 being an appeal based upon covenant relationship; and from verse 10 to 21 being an equally earnest plea derived from the imminence of his peril.


EXPOSITION


Verse 1. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This was the startling cry of Golgotha: Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani. The Jews mocked, but the angels adored when Jesus cried this exceeding bitter cry. Nailed to the tree we behold our great Redeemer in extremities, and what do we see? Having ears to hear let us hear, and having eyes to see let us see! Let us gaze with holy wonder, and mark the flashes of light amid the awful darkness of that midday-midnight.

First, our Lord's faith beams forth and deserves our reverent imitation; he keeps his hold upon his God with both hands and cries twice, "My God, my God!" The spirit of adoption was strong within the suffering Son of Man, and he felt no doubt about his interest in his God. Oh that we could imitate this cleaving to an afflicting God!

Nor does the sufferer distrust the power of God to sustain him, for the title used, "El"—signifies strength, and is the name of the Mighty God. He knows the Lord to be the all-sufficient support and support of his spirit, and therefore appeals to him in the agony of grief, but not in the misery of doubt. He would gladly know why he has left, he raises that question and repeats it, but neither the power nor the faithfulness of God does he mistrust.

What an inquiry is this before us! "Why have you forsaken me?" We must lay the emphasis on every word of this saddest of all utterances.

"Why?" what is the great cause of such a strange fact as for God to leave his own Son at such a time and in such a plight? There was no cause in him, why then was he deserted?

"Have" it is done, and the Savior is feeling its dread effect as he asks the question; it is surely true, but how mysterious! It was no threatening of forsaking which made the great Surety cry aloud, he endured that forsaking in very deed.

"You" I can understand why traitorous Judas and timid Peter should be gone, but you, my God, my faithful friend, how can you leave me? This is worst of all, yes, worse than all put together. Hell itself has for its fiercest flame the separation of the soul from God.

"Forsaken" if you had chastened I might bear it, for your face would shine; but to forsake me utterly, ah! why is this?

"Me" your innocent, obedient, suffering Son, why leave you me to perish? A sight of self seen by penitence, and of Jesus on the cross seen by faith, will best expound this question. Jesus is forsaken because our sins had separated between us and our God.


"Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" The Man of Sorrows had prayed until his speech failed him, and he could only utter moanings and groanings as men do in severe sicknesses, like the roarings of a wounded animal. To what extremity of grief was our Master driven? What strong crying and tears were those which made him too hoarse for speech! What must have been his anguish to find his own beloved and trusted Father standing afar off, and neither granting help nor apparently hearing prayer! This was good cause to make him "roar." Yet there was reason for all this which those who rest in Jesus as their Substitute well know.


Verse 2. "O my God, I cry in the daytime, but you do not hear." For our prayers to appear to be unheard is no new trial, Jesus felt it before us, and it is observable that he still held fast his believing hold on God, and cried still, "My God." On the other hand his faith did not render him less importunate, for amid the hurry and horror of that dismal day he ceased not his cry, even as in Gethsemane he had agonized all through the gloomy night. Our Lord continued to pray even though no comfortable answer came, and in this he set us an example of obedience to his own words, "men ought always to pray, and not to faint." No daylight is too glaring, and no midnight too dark to pray in; and no delay or apparent denial, however grievous, should tempt us to forbear from importunate pleading.


Verse 3. "But you are holy, O you who inhabits the praises of Israel." However ill things may look, there is no ill in you, O God! We are very apt to think and speak hardly of God when we are under his afflicting hand, but not so the obedient Son. He knows too well his Father's goodness to let outward circumstances libel his character. There in no unrighteousness with the God of Jacob, he deserves no censure; let him do what he will, he is to be praised, and to reign enthroned amid the songs of his chosen people.

If prayer be unanswered it is not because God is unfaithful, but for some other good and weighty reason. If we cannot perceive any ground for the delay, we must leave the riddle unsolved, but we must not fly in God's face in order to invent an answer. While the holiness of God is in the highest degree acknowledged and adored, the afflicted speaker in this verse seems to marvel how the holy God could forsake him, and be silent to his cries. The argument is, you are holy. Oh! why is it that you do disregard your holy One in his hour of sharpest anguish? We may not question the holiness of God, but we may argue from it, and use it as a plea in our petitions.


Verse 4. "Our fathers trusted in you: they trusted, and you delivered them." This is the rule of life with all the chosen family. Three times over is it mentioned, they trusted, and trusted, and trusted, and never left off trusting, for it was their very life; and they fared well too, for you did deliver them. Out of all their straits, difficulties, and miseries, faith brought them by calling their God to the rescue; but in the case of our Lord it appeared as if faith would bring no assistance from Heaven, he alone of all the trusting ones was to remain without deliverance.

The experience of other saints may be a great consolation to us when in deep waters if faith can be sure that their deliverance will be ours; but when we feel ourselves sinking, it is poor comfort to know that others are swimming.

Our Lord here pleads the past dealings of God with his people as a reason why he should not be left alone; here again he is an example to us in the skillful use of the weapon of all-prayer. The use of the plural pronoun "our" shows how one with his people Jesus was even on the cross. We say, "Our Father which are in Heaven," and he calls those "our fathers" through whom we came into the world, although he was without father as to the flesh.


Verse 5. "They cried unto you, and were delivered; they trusted in you, and were not confounded." As if he had said, "How is it that I am now left without support in my overwhelming griefs, while all others have been helped? We may remind the Lord of his former loving-kindnesses to his people, and beseech him to be still the same. This is true wrestling; let us learn the art.

Observe, that ancient saints cried and trusted, and that in trouble we must do the same; and the invariable result was that they were not ashamed of their hope, for deliverance came in due time; this same happy portion shall be ours. The prayer of faith can do the deed when nothing else can. Let us wonder when we see Jesus using the same pleas as ourselves, and immersed in griefs far deeper than our own.​

Finish reading here: https://gracegems.org/Spurgeon/022.htm

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[Ghada]

Matthew 26:31​

“Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.”

No one is saying that the Father had no hand in the death of His Son, for both the Father and the Son Himself had hand in His own death.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jhn 16:32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Far from the Father smiting His Son on a cross, the Father was with the Son unto the end. The Father did not commit unlawful murder, nor did the Son commit suicide.

I will smite the shepherd,

The prophecy spoken by Jesus is of both the Father and the Son at the cross smiting the Shepherd. I the Father, and I the Son are the one smiting the shepherd.

One did not smite the other. God did not smite God, nor can God that sins not, be smitten of God by law.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jhn 8:29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Both the Father and the Son as one worked together by command and obedience at the cross, with the Son on the cross bodily and the Father with Him spiritually unto the end.

The Father sent the Son into the world by the womb of a virgin, and to the cross by the hands of violent men. The Son went with obedience in all things, and the Father was with Him from childhood to death:

Heb 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

I will smite the shepherd, declares the Father and Son working together to fullill the prophecy of the smitten Shepherd. It does not declare that God will smite Jesus as a cursed blasphemer, the way the Lord God smote Egypt with plagues.

Job 2:3And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Since it was Satan that smote Job's life and body, why does the Lord speak of being moved against Job to destroy him? Christ did no violence to Job, as He did with the Assyrian host before the walls of Jersusalem.

The reason Satan could lay hands on Job, was the same by which sinful men could finally lay hands on Jesus Christ, when His hour had come: God the Father and Son together allowed it to come to pass for the good, without doing the evil done for the bad.

Neither Job nor Jesus was smitten by God nor of God, but by violent men of Satan.

 

[Ghada]

Psalms 22:1​

" My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?”

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die

If the soul of the Son died on the cross by imputed sin of God, then God imputing sin to the Son, is by judging Him guilty and worthy of death, so that He died the death of all souls that sinneth.

God does not tempt any man to sin, much less make men sinners.

Jas 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

The lie of God imputing sin to the innocent, is spawned from the lie that Christ makes natural flesh sinful, and babes sinners.

It's the vain imagination of a mystical view toward sin, as though sin were but an 'idea' that can be transferred from one person to another, without committing the act.

1Jo 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin:

All sin is an act of unrighteousness and transgression against the law of the Lord. The actions of one person cannot possibly be imputed to another, that does not do the work themselves.

The Spirit departed from the Son to fulfill prophecy, not to punish Him for sinning.

Jhn 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

And when the Spirit departed Him for a time, the Son still had life in Himself, for He was that true God and eternal life in the flesh.

John{8:29} And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jhn 16:32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

The Father was with the Son unto the end, and left Him not alone. And the Spirit returned to the Son at the cross, by which He went to preach to them in prison under the earth.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Son was put to death in the flesh, not the soul. His body bore the marks of our sins, not His soul. The Spirit departed Him by prophecy, not by sin. The Father did not forsake Him nor leave Him alone to hang on the cross by Himself.

Though even if the Father had left the Son alone, Jesus Christ still would have not sinned against His own soul unto death.

Pro 8:36But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Pro 29:24Whoso is partner with a thief hateth his own soul: he heareth cursing, and bewrayeth it not.

Thieves were crucified with Him for their sins, but He was not partner with them by sinning.

Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

The Son did not hate Himself nor His Father, by sinning against God. Neither did the Father hate the Son by wrongly imputing Him with sin and making Him worthy of death on a cursed cross.

Jesus was judge to be a sinner legally at the cross~

I.e. God imputing sin to a soul by law, is to judge the soul sinned and transgressed the law of God. Which is true.

However, Jesus was not a blasphemer for calling Himself the Son of God.

Only His accusers imputed Jesus was legally worthy of death as a blasphemous sinner.

Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Jesus was made a curse for his people

He was made a curse by His people, who rejected Him and did not believe He was the Son of God hanging on a cursed tree.

Jhn 1:11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Isa 53:34He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
His disciples agreed with His accusers, because He did not defend His Sonship with power, and so in the end all esteemed Him not to be the Son of God come in the flesh.

that we might be made the righteousness of God!

All sinners are made guilty of His crucifixion at the cross. Only them that repent are justified at His resurrection.

The only ones imputing themselves righteousness at the cross, are the accusers esteeming Him guilty of blasphemy.

as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of God's elect.

His perfect sacrifice was perfect meekness at the hands of sinners, so that all His people believed He was smitten of God on a cross by the law of blasphemy.

Lev 24:16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

By His death, He made all that sinned guilty on earth, by law of shedding the innocent blood of the Son.

Deu 19:9That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

He was as a lamb without blemish or spot~

Which is why He could not be judged and cursed by God according to His own righteous law.

that Christ possess perfectly in thoughts, words, and deed, from conception to his death on the cross. Selah.

True. Which is why the righteous Judge cannot impute sin to Him that sinned not, and knew no sin in life and in death.

Only the unjust judges of this world accuses and slays the innocent.

Exo 23:7Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Romans 1:4​

“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:”

Declared to who? The Father? The Spirit? The angels of the Lord in heaven? The devils that confessed Him to be of the Highest on earth?

Not to any of them that already knew He was God the Son come in the flesh. But the Spirit now declares to all men and women, that He was God come in the flesh, and not cursed and smitten of God by law of blasphemy.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit calleth Jesus accursed.

All His enemies at the cross are defeated by His resurrection, and now all men can repent of His shed blood, and recieve mercy:

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 

[Red Baker]

Ghada said:No one is saying that the Father had no hand in the death of His Son, for both the Father and the Son Himself had hand in His own death.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jhn 16:32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Far from the Father smiting His Son on a cross, the Father was with the Son unto the end. The Father did not commit unlawful murder, nor did the Son commit suicide.

I will smite the shepherd,

The prophecy spoken by Jesus is of both the Father and the Son at the cross smiting the Shepherd. I the Father, and I the Son are the one smiting the shepherd.

You are confused~so, my question to you is this? Did God smite Jesus? You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth, which I took from you own words yesterday and saved them~you came back later and changed your wording, probably after realizing you contradicted yourself.

If the soul of the Son died on the cross by imputed sin of God, then God imputing sin to the Son, is by judging Him guilty and worthy of death, so that He died the death of all souls that sinneth.

God does not tempt any man to sin, much less make men sinners.

Jas 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

The lie of God imputing sin to the innocent, is spawned from the lie that Christ makes natural flesh sinful, and babes sinners.

Jesus Christ was made sin for his people per 2nd Corinthians 5:21 and has been proven more than once to you by different men on this forum.

Titus 3:10​

“A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;”

I'm finish speaking to you.

 

[Mr GLee]

No one is saying that the Father had no hand in the death of His Son, for both the Father and the Son Himself had hand in His own death.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jhn 16:32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Far from the Father smiting His Son on a cross, the Father was with the Son unto the end. The Father did not commit unlawful murder, nor did the Son commit suicide.

I will smite the shepherd,

The prophecy spoken by Jesus is of both the Father and the Son at the cross smiting the Shepherd. I the Father, and I the Son are the one smiting the shepherd.

One did not smite the other. God did not smite God, nor can God that sins not, be smitten of God by law.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jhn 8:29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Both the Father and the Son as one worked together by command and obedience at the cross, with the Son on the cross bodily and the Father with Him spiritually unto the end.

The Father sent the Son into the world by the womb of a virgin, and to the cross by the hands of violent men. The Son went with obedience in all things, and the Father was with Him from childhood to death:

Heb 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

I will smite the shepherd, declares the Father and Son working together to fullill the prophecy of the smitten Shepherd. It does not declare that God will smite Jesus as a cursed blasphemer, the way the Lord God smote Egypt with plagues.

Job 2:3And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Since it was Satan that smote Job's life and body, why does the Lord speak of being moved against Job to destroy him? Christ did no violence to Job, as He did with the Assyrian host before the walls of Jersusalem.

The reason Satan could lay hands on Job, was the same by which sinful men could finally lay hands on Jesus Christ, when His hour had come: God the Father and Son together allowed it to come to pass for the good, without doing the evil done for the bad.

Neither Job nor Jesus was smitten by God nor of God, but by violent men of Satan.

I would offer from my experience many by pass the first part of the three days and night demonstration Beginning in the garden of Gethsemane to represent the garden of Eden (the beautiful city ) There to fulfil the two prophecies working as one Genesis 3:15 with Isiah 53

Genesis 3:15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isaiah 53: 4-5 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53: 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The gospel witness of two the father striking the Son bruisding his heel crushing the head of the serpent a exclusive work of two . Each time (3) in his sufferings he would look for strength from the apostles. Three times the father put them to sleep to fulfil the prophecies of the dynamic dual .

Then they woke up and moved to the hill of the skull fulfil another prohecy. This time as a bloody sign to the unbelieving world making it seem as the sufferings was at the hand of a Satan inspired mob. . gospel drawing power . then the last demonstration the tomb .

All three demonstrations working as one gospel

 

[Ghada]

God did both, (legally speaking)

At least you don't play the game of making a difference between God imputing sin and judging to be a sinner.

Jesus Christ was not imputed with sin, nor made a sinner and a cursed blasphemer on a tree by God, but only by sinners.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

Some people still believe Jesus was accursed by God as a sinner, and smitten of Him by law of blasphemy. Whether Jew, Muslim, or Christian.

Both are true.

God didn't agree with the false accusers, and curse His Son as a blasphemer for calling Himself His Son. Jesus' accusers were not justified by law of God to crucify Him on a tree. Their hands were wicked, not righteous.

Acts 2:23​

“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”

Exactly. God commanded His Son to submit to His accusers meekly, to let them do with Him whatsoever they would.

If they let Him go by right judgment of law, then well. If not, then God would raise Him from the dead to prove them wrong, and give Him all power over those His enemies that slew Him.

Now by His resurrection, if we repent for slaying His innocent blood, then well. If not, then we perish.

God did not work in them to do this wickedness,

Exactly. He was not smitten of God. The accusation against Him was not of God, and His execution was not by law.

Lev 24:16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

Deu 19:12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

God only works in the hands of them that rightly execute the guilty by law.

False accusers are not of God, nor is their smiting the innocent of God.

but knew perfectly what they would do, when left the devices of their own dark and depraved hearts.

Exactly, and yet they still had opportunity to repent. God commanded His Son to submit to them, but He did not command them to crucify Him.

His smiting was not of God, but of wicked men.

And the Spirit was convicting them, lest they slay the innocent blood.

Jhn 7:50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,) Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

Jhn 19:6When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.

It's truly amazing how pagan Romans found no fault in Jesus, while His people esteemed Him guilty of blasphemy and worthy of death.

And what's most amazing is some naming His name today agree with the accusing Jews, that God did find fault with His Son, so that His smiting was indeed of God.

But hey, what do Roman pagans know about such high matters of faith, right?

Eph 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Not the Spirit, as though there are others~but God is a Spirit,

1Jo 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Eph 2:2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1Jo 4:6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

There is the Spirit of God, and there is the spirit not of God, but of the god of this world. Likewise, there is being smitten of God and not of God, but of the devil.

The Spirit of truth does not accuse Jesus of being cursed on a cross by God, but only by sinful man.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

Only by the spirit of error did they all at the cross believe Jesus smitten of God by law, as well as anyone today agreeing with them.

As with righteous Abel, even more so with Jesus Christ the Son of God. Abel, like Jesus, was no doubt esteemed smitten of God at the hands of Cain, when they did not repent and agree with the accusers.

No if about it, he was! He also was judged a sinner legally by God's law, thereby he was put to death!

Success and Rejoice!

Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

So said His accursers at the cross, and so say some today!

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

 

[Ghada]

"Spirit that imputes righteousness"~So, do you agree, yes or no, God does imputes righteousness, to sinners freely by his grace,

Only to them that repent of their sinning for Jesus' sake.

God's gospel is repentance unto salvation, not salvation by believing alone.

based upon the redemption that Jesus Christ secured for God's elect,

Only at His resurrection for them that repent of sinning. Not by His death alone, at the hands of all that sin.

"God judges our souls by our deeds, not our bodies" ~please explain what you are attempting to say.

Natural flesh is not sinful, just mortal. It's not a sin to be mortal. Only immortal souls sinning with the flesh are judged sinful by God. It's only a sin to disobey God in mortal flesh.

We are all judged by what we do with our bodies in this life. The bodies are not judged in the grave.

Are you saying not our bodies by the fact that he does not destroy our bodies when one sins against him, not sure what you mean by this.

All flesh dies naturally like grass. Bodies die because they are mortal, not because they are judged.

Only immortal souls are judged dead or alive to God, by works of sin or righteousness with the natural body.

Man is a three-part being, with a body, spirit, and soul. And he will always have all three.

Are you also one of them that say the soul is the body, and the soul is always with the body in the grave? The soul of man never departs the dead body, whether to be in the presence of the Lord, or in torment of hell?

Paul prayed that the Thessalonians would be kept spirit, soul, and body (I Thess 5:23).

True. Them in Christ Jesus are kept by God from sinning in the spirit nor with the body. We are kept living blamelessly with inward purity and outward righteousness.

Mat 23:25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Mat 23:26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

2Co 7:1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Scripture rebukes the lie of being inwardly righteous by faith alone, while outwardly unrighteous in deeds.

While it's possible for man to be outwardly righteous, and yet inwardly unclean. It's not possible for anyone to be inwardly righteous, and yet outwardly unclean.

Justification by faith alone is a lie of one's own making. It's by the same spirit of error that says any sinner at the cross is imputed righteous by Jesus' death, while the righteous One was imputed sinful unto death.

The spirit may be our inner, self-conscious, conscientious, choosing, and loving part.

Or, hating part. And what some call love, God calls dead.

Jas 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
1 John 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

What some call inwardly imputed righteousness by faith alone, God calls dead souls still doing dead works. Only worse now by decietful religion of faith alone.

Mat 6:23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Half truth, the other part is covered in #11,13 above

Jesus pleased the Father at all times, and no time did the Father leaven Him alone.

Only the half-hearted continue doing both good and evil.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Psa 17:1Hear the right, O LORD, attend unto my cry, give ear unto my prayer, that goeth not out of feigned lips.

By rejecting the other half means you reject the heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not imputing sins of the wicked to Himself, and His righteous to the sinners that crucify Him unto death.

Sinners do not become sons of God by killing the Son of God.

Gen(3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is mercy to any sinner that repents by His resurrection from the dead.

Luk 15:10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus Christ was not imputed with sin, nor made a sinner and a cursed blasphemer on a tree by God, but only by sinners.

I would offer it seems you are confusing the two. Jesus the Christ our the savoir anointing teacher and Jesus, the Son of man .

Christ's Holy Spirt worked in the flesh of the Son of man Jesus as al born from above .We can know Christ by faith, the invisible things a power of God in that way . Jesus the Son of man delighted to do the will of God. . some murmur

One in Mark who did not differentiate between the dying things seen flesh and things eternal not seen, the Holy Spirit of Christ.

He bowed down to worship the flesh of the Son of man Jesus. Jesus gave glory to the invisible head Christ


.Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

God is not a Jewish man dying mankind as King of kings


God is Spirit. God is light God. is Love

 

[Eleanor]

Some believe that God imputed sin to His Son on the cross, but did not judge Him a sinner.
Objections:
--No Scripture says God ever imputed sin to His Son. The only ones imputing any sin to the Son, are false accusers of Him blaspheming God by calling Himself the Son of God:
Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death
---The only ones imputing the Son cursed under the law, are His false accusers and ignorant believers esteeming Him smitten of God, by the law of blasphemy.
Lev 24:16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death,
Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
If God imputed sin to Jesus, then all them at the cross esteeming Him smitten by God, was true.
---God is the Spirit that imputes righteousness or sin to souls, not bodies. God judges our souls by our deeds, not our bodies.
2Sa 19:19And said unto the king, Let not my lord impute iniquity unto me, neither do thou remember that which thy servant did perversely the day that my lord the king went out of Jerusalem, that the king should take it to his heart.
Lev 17:4And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
Psa 32:2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Bible imputing is judging the person with the act, whether good or bad. The only ones imputing sin to a person, that is does not commit the sin, is a false accuser,

God imputes Adam's sin to all those of Adam (Ro 5:12-14) and imputes Christ's righteousness to all those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

whether knowingly or ignorantly.
--The only Scripture of God imputing anything to His Son, both in prophecy and in the record, is imputing Him righteous and being well-pleased with Him:
Isa 42:21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Mat 12:18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 3:17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
---If God imputes sin to a person, but not to the soul, then God imputes righteousness to a person, but not to the soul.
If Jesus was imputed with sin, but not judged a sinner, then those imputed with His righteousness are not judged righteous.
2Co 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
If this means the Father imputed the Son with sin, then the Son was made to be a sinner, not 'as' nor 'like' a sinner. Which contradicts the Scripture that the Son knew no sin in His soul, nor did His soul sin.
If the Son was not made to be a sinner by God imputing Him with sin, then we are not made to be righteous, by God imputing the Son's righteousness to us. Which contradicts the Scripture, that we are made to be righteous by imputed righteousness of God.
---Imputing anything to a person, but not the soul, is separating the person from their own soul. Or is imputing sin or righteousness to a body, but not a the soul. And so, the body and soul are separated on earth, which is only at death in the grave.
---And finally, God imputing anything to the Son, is God imputing it to God, else the Word and Son are not God.
If the sin bearing of the Son on the cross was imputed sin by God, then God imputed sin to God the Son and God the Father and God the Holy Ghost, else God the Father, Son, and Spirit are not one.

If the sinbearing of the Son is the imputed sin of the Father, than the Father and the Spirit are sin bearers with the Son.