GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[QVQ]

Adam was still created sinful. If it were not the nature of Adam to sin, then Christ could not be tempted into sin through the sinful nature of man which He had hypostatically. Christ as God did not have the capacity for sin, was not capable, so somebody in that hypostatsis did. And God created Adam.
I don't think the devil could create that capability in Adam. He could only exploit it.

 

[Eleanor]

Adam was still created sinful. If it were not the nature of Adam to sin, then Christ could not be tempted by the sinful nature of man which He had hypostatically.

God is not, cannot be the Author of sin.

If God created Adam in sin, then he would be the Author of sin.

 

[QVQ]

God is not, cannot be the Author of sin.

If God created Adam in sin, then he would be the Author of sin.

I have heard that argument.
I know what I think about that.
Question is:
Who do you think is the author of sin?

 

[Eleanor]

I have heard that argument.
I know what I think about that.
Question is:
Who do you think is the author of sin?

The first sinner was an angel.

 

[Eleanor]

Adam was still created sinful. If it were not the nature of Adam to sin, then Christ could not be tempted into sin through the sinful nature of man which He had hypostatically. Christ as God did not have the capacity for sin, was not capable, so somebody in that hypostatsis did. And God created Adam.
I don't think the devil could create that capability in Adam. He could only exploit it.

Neither Adam nor Christ originated with a sinful (corrupt) nature.
They had a human nature, created without corruption, but subject to corruption, based on their choice to be so.

Just as I am without food poisoning, but subject to food poisoning.


Adam corrupted his, Christ did not.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then obviously the BIBLE IS A lie when it says that Jesus was TEMPTED IN ALL RESPECTS AS WE ARE.

Being tempted was to test His human nature but the Divine person was impeccable.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Are you not familiar with the creation story?

Of course. My post are my findings and belief.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Neither Adam nor Christ originated with a sinful (corrupt) nature.
They had a human nature, created without corruption, but subject to corruption, based on their choice to be so.

Just as I am without food poisoning, but subject to food poisoning.


Adam corrupted his, Christ did not.

Quote: “Adam corrupted his, Christ did not.”
Response: Adam was sinful which is why he sinned.
Christ is sinless and did not sin.
Sin comes from sinner: Adam.

 

[Eleanor]

Quote: “Adam corrupted his, Christ did not.”
Response: Adam was sinful which is why he sinned.
Christ is sinless and did not sin.
Sin comes from sinner: Adam.

God is not the author of sin, he did not create sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God is not the author of sin, he did not create sin.

God says otherwise:

Isaiah 45:6–7 (KJV) I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

Receive the Word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The first sinner was an angel.

Yes. Created sinful like man.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Orthodox would be according to the councils of Christendom for the first 1500 years.

Adam has one nature--human, created righteous, but capable of corruption, which happened when he rebelled, he corrupted his nature.
Now man is born with a fallen (corrupted) nature, not in the righteous (without sin) state that it was at creation.

If he was righteous capable of sin then he was not righteous for sin does not come from righteous.
It’s very simple.

 

[QVQ]

Quote: “Adam corrupted his, Christ did not.”
Response: Adam was sinful which is why he sinned.
Christ is sinless and did not sin.
Sin comes from sinner: Adam.

I am not certain of the words here:
I have thought that in Christ as both man and God, God was showing man that a man could obey God. The laws were not an impossible burden.
Christ showed how a man could resist temptation. In that He was both man, correcting the sin of Adam and God, instructing us in His ways.
IT was part of the mission of Christ, the redemption of the world, so the temptation would be a "substitution" with Jesus acting as a substitute Adam to show us the way when the will of man and the will of God are in accordance.

 

[Eleanor]

God says otherwise:

Isaiah 45:6–7 (KJV) I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

Receive the Word.

I take that not to mean spiritual evil, as in sin, but calamity, as in Is 53;10, 54:16, Ps 89:42, etc.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes. Created sinful like man.

God is not the author of sin.

 

[Eleanor]

If he was righteous capable of sin then he was not righteous for sin does not come from righteous.
It’s very simple.

Sin comes from free will, with the ability to choose unrighteousness.

It's not rocket science.

 

[civic]

Being tempted was to test His human nature but the Divine person was impeccable.

His Person was/ is Impeccable . His Person is Divine not human. Jesus was not a human person ( Nestorian heresy) but a Divine Person having a human nature assumed at His Incarnation. This is the biblical , historical and orthodox position in Christendom.


Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).



We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.


hope this helps !!!

 

[Eleanor]

His Person was/ is Impeccable . His Person is Divine not human. Jesus was not a human person ( Nestorian heresy) but a Divine Person having a human nature assumed at His Incarnation. This is the biblical , historical and orthodox position in Christendom.

Are you sure about that?

The Council of Chalcedon
according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter)the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word.

His one person has two natures, divine and human.

 

[civic]

Are you sure about that?

The Council of Chalcedon
according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter)the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word.

His one person has two natures, divine and human.

I’m 100% positive . He is a Divine Person with 2 natures . His human nature is not a person that is Nestorianism .

 

[fastfredy0]

Who do you think is the author of sin?

The first sinner was an angel.

You did not answer QVQ's question.
Define "author of sin".
Define "first cause" in the context of "God is first cause"?
Who/what is/are the source(s) of "first cause" besides God?