GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[ReverendRV]

Sin comes from sinner.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sa 24:12–13.

Adam sinned. Therefore, Adam was a sinner.

That is true after the Fall, but not before the Fall. You are reading this Premise into your Theology of Original Sin, by importing its Meaning back into the Past; and applying it to Adam who was declared to be Good by God...

 

[Eleanor]

Sin comes from sinner.

No sin comes from disobedience to God, which the free will of the innocent can choose.

 

[Carbon]

Of course Adam imputed nothing.
Only God imputes, and he imputed Adam's sin to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), just as he imputes Christ's righteousness to all those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

Play nice. . .

Headship theology. Great example.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Of course Adam imputed nothing.
Only God imputes, and he imputed Adam's sin to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), just as he imputes Christ's righteousness to all those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

Play nice. . .

Your quotation doesn't say what you WANT IT TO.

 

[Eleanor]

Your quotation doesn't say what you WANT IT TO.

You'll have to help me out.

What I wanted to say was Ro 5:12-14, demonstrating the imputation of Adam's sin to all those born between Adam and Moses as the only reason for their death, sin death is the wages of sin (Ro :23), and there was no law to sin against between Adam and Moses to cause all their deaths.

Adam's trespass resulted in condemnation for all men (Ro 5:18), who had nothing to do with it.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

To eat of the tree what to know good from evil in the consequences of it.

Nope - Abam's SIN had nothing to do with the "tree". It was all about disobeying a DIRECT COMMAND from God, and siding with satan against Him, thus giving up his dominion to satan.

And as frosting on the cake, Adam actually tried to blame GOD for his failure because God gave him Eve, who "led him astray"(gen 3:12). Not a good career move.

 

[civic]

That is true after the Fall, but not before the Fall. You are reading this Premise into your Theology of Original Sin, by importing its Meaning back into the Past; and applying it to Adam who was declared to be Good by God...

Yes presuppositionalIsm .

 

[Eleanor]

Nope - Abam's SIN had nothing to do with the "tree". It was all about disobeying a DIRECT COMMAND from God,

Ageed. . .and by that disobedience he acquired the knowledge of good and evil by the experience of evil in contrast to the good he had experienced since his creation.

 

[brightfame52]

The re-birth by the Holy Spirit is a second birth into a life Adam formerly had and lost in the fall; i.e., God's divine eternal life within Adam's immoral spirit, and now we are born without it, in spiritual death (which is not death of the immortal human spirit, but absence of divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit).
That divine eternal life of God is re-imparted to the human spirit in the re-birth (born again) by the Holy Spirit.

The human soul and human spirit do not occur separately in the NT, they are always together in the human person until death.
They share some of the same functions (emotion, rejoicing), and can only be distinguished there, not separated.

In reference to your Scripture above: in context of the resurrection and the resurrection body in 1 Co 15:35-58 and the contrast between the natural (sinful) and the spiritual (sinless) material body in the two Adam's, where

the first Adam had a natural body from the dust of the ground (Ge 2:7), and through whom a natural body is given to his descendants, and
the second (last) Adam, Christ, the life-giving spirit (Jn 5:26), who through his death and resurrection will at the second coming, give his redeemed people a spiritual body--physical, yet imperishable, without corruption, and adaptable to live with God forever (Php 3:21),

it does not relate to our new birth, but to our two different bodies, pre- and post-resurrection.

All I can say is that Eternal Life is through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

 

[Eleanor]

All I can say is that Eternal Life is through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Yes, Jesus gives us eternal life in re-birth (Jn 3:3-8) by his own Holy Spirit.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You'll have to help me out.

What I wanted to say was Ro 5:12-14, demonstrating the imputation of Adam's sin to all those born between Adam and Moses as the only reason for their death, sin death is the wages of sin (Ro :23), and there was no law to sin against between Adam and Moses to cause all their deaths.

Adam's trespass resulted in condemnation for all men (Ro 5:18), who had nothing to do with it.

So what about babies who die young (our first only lasted 4 hours), and in-utero murders by their parents???? Apparently you condemn THEM to hell for Adam's SIN also???

 

[Eleanor]

So what about babies who die young (our first only lasted 4 hours), and in-utero murders by their parents???? Apparently you condemn THEM to hell for Adam's SIN also???

That had to be heart-wrenching.

The NT testimony is that:
"the trespass of one man brought condemnation for all men" (Ro 5:18),
"we are by nature (and we are born with our fallen nature) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3).

We don't know God's eternal destiny for your infant child.
We only know what has been revealed in Ro 5:18, Eph 2:3.

As the babies of my Corgi are baby dogs, so the babies of fallen humans are fallen babies.
God is sovereign and can do as he pleases with fallen babies.

Ours is not to understand the sovereignty of God, ours is to trust it.

 

[Deleted member 6]

So what about babies who die young (our first only lasted 4 hours), and in-utero murders by their parents???? Apparently you condemn THEM to hell for Adam's SIN also???

What about them? If they go to be with Him upon death you need to be pro-abortion that way evil women who hate their babies can give them an automatic trip to heaven. You’re making abortion a favorable thing and not the evil it is.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What about them? If they go to be with Him upon death you need to be pro-abortion that way evil women who hate their babies can give them an automatic trip to heaven. You’re making abortion a favorable thing and not the evil it is.

SO incinerate 'em then??

 

[fastfredy0]

What about them [babies going to heaven]? If they go to be with Him upon death you need to be pro-abortion that way evil women who hate their babies can give them an automatic trip to heaven. You’re making abortion a favorable thing and not the evil it is.

Gee, if babies go to heaven I would wish to have been aborted.
If babies go to heaven then it is a favorable result of an evil thing.
Are those "born again" better off than they would have been if Adam had never sinned? If so, was Adam's sin an evil thing that caused (second cause) a favorable result?

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality
From 2010-2014, an estimated 25% of global pregnancies (including spontaneous miscarriages) ended in abortion.
The 6 million-plus pregnancies in 1996 in the U.S. resulted in 3.9 million births, 1.3 million induced abortions, and almost a million fetal deaths. This means that 62 percent of pregnancies ended in a live birth, 22 percent ended in abortion, and 16 percent ended in a miscarriage or stillbirth. Another source said that abortions are down to 13% while miscarriages are at 20% for a total of 33%.
I like what Eleanor said:

Ours is not to understand the sovereignty of God, ours is to trust it.

 

[Eleanor]

What about them? If they go to be with Him upon death you need to be pro-abortion that way evil women who hate their babies can give them an automatic trip to heaven. You’re making abortion a favorable thing and not the evil it is.

Equivalent?

The evil of abortion lies in violation of the command, "Thou shalt not kill."

 

[Deleted member 6]

SO incinerate 'em then??

Not me. But God will.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not me. But God will.

Your opinion of my daughter's fate is noted.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Your opinion of my daughter's fate is noted.

That's not my opinion but biblical fact. If I died in infancy and was guaranteed heaven upon death and my parents let me live to the point I become lost and died lost, that would make them raising me the cruelest thing imaginable. I am sorry for your loss, but do not let emotions drive your theology.

 

[fastfredy0]

That's not my opinion but biblical fact. If I died in infancy and was guaranteed heaven upon death and my parents let me live to the point I become lost and died lost, that would make them raising me the cruelest thing imaginable. I am sorry for your loss, but do not let emotions drive your theology.

Sobering thought. Glad I'm not the only one that thinks of the possibility of such things.