GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[jeremiah1five]

Your christ came in only after Adam and Eve were created by God.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Only when a person follows a false christ and sins against God, then that one is made a sinner and god in his own eyes.

Christ is eternal in this respect because Christ entered time as a man but the Logos is eternal. BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain in the heavenly Tabernacle.
WHY?

 

[ChristB4us]

I understand exactly what happened here.

And

And get a rope!

OK, I read your Scriptures. What's your question? Or do you want me to respond to your erroneous understandings?

Is it true that what Jesus said to the Jews, even though the gospel of the kingdom was preached to them first but now have gone to the Gentiles, also applies to believers that are Gentiles?

In other words, I do not see how you can limit what Jesus said to the Jews as only pertaining to the Jews with the New Covenant in mind for all.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So, the accusers against God are right after all. It is God's fault for making you that way.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Biblically speaking, it's not even the devil's fault, but your own.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom. 9:19–21.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then how about how your view of the sabbath day in respect to what Jesus says here in Matthew 12:1-8 KJV ?

I'm not sure what you're asking me.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And

Is it true that what Jesus said to the Jews, even though the gospel of the kingdom was preached to them first but now have gone to the Gentiles, also applies to believers that are Gentiles?

In other words, I do not see how you can limit what Jesus said to the Jews as only pertaining to the Jews with the New Covenant in mind for all.

Post your Scripture.

 

[Josheb]

Please pay careful attention.........

I did. I read every word of it and gave every statement consideration.

There are so many scriptural and logical errors to list in Post #135 it is not worth the effort to reply. The entire post is dross and should be treated as such.

For example (and this is only one of many from which I could select),

Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)
AND no person can thwart God's Plan (Isaiah 14:27, Isaiah 46:11)
THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will[.]

No, it does not follow.

The errors begin with the assumption "Adam was a part of God's plan of redemption (the capitals are unnecessary, unwarranted, and do nothing for the argument) through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world" is treated as a given. In other words, it begs the question of that which it should first prove. Prior to the one man's act of disobedience there was no need for redemption. That means no plan for redemption was necessary and that means either God made a plan that was unnecessary for a time or God and His plan was dependent on conditions ontologically antithetical to His being (and a pile of scripture stating God makes good things, not bad things). The claim also commits a form of the fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc, by asserting "because X happened then Y must exist." Because redemption did become necessary then a plan for it must have previously existed. There are other explanations, ones much more consistent with the whole of scripture and ones that do not make God and His plan for creation dependent on sin, but none are found in Post 135.

The statement in question appeals to 1 Peter 1:20 (without saying so) but the 1 Peter 1 text is not specifically or explicitly about redemption. It's about sacrifice. This conflation is a common mistake but common or not it remains a mistake. Jesus was coming as the perfect, blemish-free sacrifice whether a single sin was ever committed or not. To condition his sacrifice solely on the existence and redemption of sin again compromises the ontology of God. It, again, make the Perfect God dependent upon imperfection, the Creator dependent upon the creature, the Righteous One subject to unrighteousness, the Law Maker needing lawlessness, the only truly autonomous self-sufficient God reliant upon slavery. In other words, that one single premise, based on a selective appeal to 1 Peter 1:20 commits a variety of logical/theological errors. Yes, Jesus' sacrifice does redeem those sanctified by the Spirit, but sin is not the cause of Jesus being the Redeemer. That's not only a false-cause argument, but that is also the cart before the horse. Because Jesus is the prefect sacrifice, he is also the redeemer, not the other way around. Now, you might be thinking the same argument applies to my dissent but there are multiple reasons Jesus is the perfect sacrifice and multiple effects of his sacrifice and they do not all have to do with the existence of sin but, again, that is nowhere found in Post 135. Post 135 assumes things not in evidence and neglects things that should be necessarily stated. These errors are compounded by a mistake I mentioned in my post: do not apply post-disobedient scriptures about post-disobedient conditions to sinless creatures living in a sinless world!

In other words, I am not even done with the first line of argument 2 and there are a handful of errors. One error is fatal and there are many. Cases built on erroneous premises lead to erroneous cases and flawed cases built on flawed premises lead to flawed conclusions AND any case containing multiple errors in its opening sentence is not worthy of consideration. It should be discarded out of hand and a better case from true and factual premises made.


Another problem running throughout Post 135 is the failure to define the terms. For example, "free will" is never truly "free" in the dictionary definition of the word (autonomous, unfettered, or not under the control or influence of another) and those who hold to that definition in the context of free will are not only exceedingly rare but also foolish. There is, however, a wide array of views held within Christianity and the various views are so diverse that the term should have been defined as it was intended to be used so that I and everyone else reading the post can understand exactly what you mean when using the phrase "free will." Line five of argument 1 contradicts the conclusion of argument 2. If Adam was made "a free will into man in the likeness God's will" then either Adam was endowed with the attribute of free will or God does not Himself possess free will. Argument 1 and argument 2 cannot both be correct, true, logical, scriptural, or acceptable. One or both are irrational and unscriptural.


Post #135 is wrong, and very badly wrong. Were I to believe the errors are intentional for the purpose of deception I would call the post sophistry. It's a bad post.

 

[ChristB4us]

I'm not sure what you're asking me.

Do you keep all of God's commandments per the Old Covenant; hence the law of Moses, by keeping the sabbath day also?

 

[ChristB4us]

Post your Scripture.

Why did Jesus responded to the woman from Canaan then in healing her? And did not Jesus say this as well in that Sermon on the Mount?

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And if you say who is my neighbor as well as who is my enemy from the Jewish mindset, then see why Jesus responded to the Canaan woman.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Or how about His ministry to the Samaritan woman at the well? Look at what He had told her.

John 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Is it true that what Jesus said to the Jews, even though the gospel of the kingdom was preached to them first but now have gone to the Gentiles, also applies to believers that are Gentiles the moment they became saved believers?

In other words, I do not see how you can limit what Jesus said to the Jews as only pertaining to the Jews with the New Covenant in mind for all.

 

[Ghada]

God created man (Adam) sinful.

So, your christ is a maker of sin and sinners. Yes, or no?

I don't play the sidestepping game into other pastures..

 

[Ghada]

Christ is eternal in this respect because Christ entered time as a man but the Logos is eternal. BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain in the heavenly Tabernacle.
WHY?

Your christ came in only after Adam and Eve were created by God.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Only when a person follows a false christ and sins against God, then that one is made a sinner and god in his own eyes.

Address the point or don't pretend to respond to my challenges.

 

[Ghada]

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom. 9:19–21.

Whatever.

So, the accusers against God are right after all. It is God's fault for making you that way.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Biblically speaking, it's not even the devil's fault, but your own.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[CrowCross]

You wrote "calamity is the opposite of peace" which is imprecise. War is the opposite of peace.

Remember, it is YOU who said peace is the opposite of evil.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you keep all of God's commandments per the Old Covenant; hence the law of Moses, by keeping the sabbath day also?

I do and I have.
Now let me explain how this is done.
Christ fulfilled all God's commandments. Every one. Perfectly. The only one that did and has.
In my conversion the Holy Spirit of Christ dwells in me as result of the Son's atonement and in my calling. I believe the kingdom of God is not a place but a Person. Christ.
And the kingdom of God is within me. I am hidden in Christ. When God seeks to see me, He doesn't see me, but Christ in me and the finished work performed on the cross. Being my substitute and in me as God sees Christ fulfilling the commandments of God, He also 'sees' me as fulfilling the commandments of God. This is my justification, my being declared "Not Guilty!"

Being disabled I don't work. But if I work or don't work, I wouldn't keep the sabbath for the sabbath was given to the children of Israel in covenant and I am not a Jew. At least I don't think I am. But in being born again and the fact the Holy Spirit was promised to Israel I wonder. Whether some believe it so or not God is very ethnic. If I have even one drop of Hebrew blood in me, I would fall under covenant as do the Samaritans.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why did Jesus responded to the woman from Canaan then in healing her? And did not Jesus say this as well in that Sermon on the Mount?

She exercised her knowledge of Scripture concerning Him. Same with the Roman centurion. The woman also knew her 'place.' She knew He was not sent to Gentiles because He is a Jewish Messiah. Too bad Gentile Christians today don't recognize their 'place' as did this woman.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And if you say who is my neighbor as well as who is my enemy from the Jewish mindset, then see why Jesus responded to the Canaan woman.

From the Jewish mindset AND the Jewish Scriptures, the command of God to covenant Israel in who to love is found in Leviticus 19:17-19:

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother [member of the same tribe] in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour [member of another tribe situated by God living next to another tribe], and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [member of any tribe], but thou shalt love thy neighbour [member of another tribe situated by God living next to another tribe] as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev. 19:17–18.

Not even God cast His Pearls to swine nor gives that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant.)

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Samaritan, priest, and Levite were in covenant with God. You do see that, right?

Or how about His ministry to the Samaritan woman at the well? Look at what He had told her.

John 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Is it true that what Jesus said to the Jews, even though the gospel of the kingdom was preached to them first but now have gone to the Gentiles, also applies to believers that are Gentiles the moment they became saved believers?

In other words, I do not see how you can limit what Jesus said to the Jews as only pertaining to the Jews with the New Covenant in mind for all.

The woman at the well was covenant Israel. She had every right to the well and to Christ and she was one who was waiting for this promise of God to come. And viola! There He is. She awaited the Messiah and Messiah came giving her Abrahamic blessings.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So, your christ is a maker of sin and sinners. Yes, or no?

I don't play the sidestepping game into other pastures..

Why ask me something already revealed.
Do you see the title of this thread?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your christ came in only after Adam and Eve were created by God.

Well, He was preordained and predestined.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Let me guess: to you the serpent is Satan/Lucifer/devil?
Do you see my signature? It says Biblical Christian.
First, the angels that sinned are locked up:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6

I place their being dealt with by God between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I don't accept the false understanding that spirit beings married material women and had hybrid creatures as offspring but that the covenant line of Seth unequally yoked themselves to non-covenant women and the result were anti-nomos children.

Second, there is only one way men (and women) are tempted and it is from within not from without:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.

It's the same way Jesus was tempted in the desert.

Only when a person follows a false christ and sins against God, then that one is made a sinner and god in his own eyes.

The definition of sin according to Strong is "missing the mark." There is no mention of any act. If you believe it is the act(s) of sin that makes us sinners, then that would contradict the Doctrine of Imputation. I am a Biblical Christian, and the Bible says this:

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13.

It's the same thing as saying 'sin comes from sinners.'
You do believe the bible, yes?
It teaches that we sin because we are sinners. It doesn't teach we are sinners because we sin. Make distinction.

Address the point or don't pretend to respond to my challenges.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Whatever.

So, the accusers against God are right after all. It is God's fault for making you that way.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Biblically speaking, it's not even the devil's fault, but your own.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:14 is exactly what transpired in the Garden of Eden.
You post the Scripture, but you don't believe it.

 

[Hobie]

There is a lot to cover so bear with me.
Let's go.

There is no difference between the Laws of God and His Commands.
The Laws of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law.

What was the 'make-up' of man? Was he holy? Righteous? Sinless? Innocent? Good? And what does "good" mean?

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:20.

Knowledge of sin. Isn't that the name given to the tree in Eden the Garden of God?
The Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.
So, the purpose of the Tree was to give the man the KNOWLEDGE of sin. It didn't make him sinful.
But did Christ die for the knowledge of sin? No, He did not. He died for sin.

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 4:15.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:16–17.

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5:13.

But there was a law in the Garden. There was a "thou shalt not" in the Garden, and the Law shows us we are sinners. It doesn't make us sinners, but it shows we are sinners.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Romans 7:7–9.

If there is no law, there is no sin.
But there was a Law, a Command in the Garden. God said, "Thou shalt not [eat of it]."
As Paul says, the existence of a Law/Command shows us we are sinners. Paul says, "I had not KNOWN lust, except the Law/Command had said, thou shalt not covet."
So, let's apply this to the first man.

ADAM: "I had not KNOWN sin but by the Law/Command. I had not KNOWN disobedience except the Law/Command said, thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

Pretty straightforward. The Law/Command in the Garden showed that the first man (Adam) was a sinner BEFORE he sinned for the existence of Law/Command shows us we are sinners, as Paul said, "I had not KNOWN sin but by the [existence] of the Law/Command. Paul didn't have to lust to have broken the Law against coveting. It was the Law/Command that showed him he was a sinner before the actual act of sin.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Romans 7:9.

He doesn't say he committed any sin by which he died, but WHEN the Commandment came, sin revived, and he died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Romans 7:10-11.

What was the created 'make-up' of the first man (and woman)? They were created sinful. And what is sin? Sin is death, and death is sin. And the Greek word in the KJV translated as "sin" is "hamartia." This word derives from [#264] "hamartano" and it simply means [to] "miss the mark."
What is the "mark" that is "missed"?
The Glory of God. Or the Glory that is God.

There are those that say Adam was created "good." But what does that mean? There is none good, that is God, Jesus said. He wouldn't even accept that designation and He is the Son of the Living God. "Good" doesn't mean "holy," or "righteous," or "sinless." Those words don't appear in Genesis creation. Even the word "morally" good doesn't appear here. Nor does "innocent." But the word "good" merely means, "good enough," or "well [enough]" or "to specification." God says His creation is "to specification" or "well enough" after a creative act. He says this after creating the grass and herb yielding seed. Surely, grass and herb yielding seed is not righteous, or holy, or sinless, is it? No, it is not. But they were created to God's specification, and He pronounced the grass and herb yielding seed good [to specification.]

God created the first man and woman sinful. The Law/Command of God "Thou shalt not eat of it" showed they were sinful before any act of sin as Paul explains. The man and woman disobeyed God. He said they would by the very Law/Command to not eat from the Tree. And the Tree only gave them the KNOWLEDGE of their sin for when the Law/Command came, sin revived, and they died. There was no act of sin by which they became sinners. They sinned BECAUSE they were sinners as the Law/Command says they were.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:
1 Samuel 24:13.

That's the same as saying, "sin comes from sinners."
Adam and the woman sinned because they were created sinful. They are NOT sinful because they sinned.
The Doctrine of Imputation teaches that it was a nature-swap with sinful man. At the cross the only begotten Son became a sin offering. He didn't die for any act of sin, but for the sinful nature God created man. A nature-swap. We are imputed His righteous nature, and He is imputed our sinful nature.

21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Corinthians 5:21.

It is a nature-swap. It doesn't say, "For he hath made him [to be] the acts of sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteous acts of God in him."
If He died for the sinful acts this would still leave the sin nature in man and we surely cannot enter heaven with a sin nature if Christ only died for our acts of sin.

God created the first man sinful, that is, "missing the mark" of the Glory of God, or "fallen short of His Glory."
There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His Glory to NO ONE.
The only Person who can stand before a Holy God blameless is the Holy Son.
But you say, "that makes God the author of sin."
No, I don't say that. God does. Through His prophet Isaiah:

7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7.

Anything and everything in creation is the result of God. He is the first cause of everything in His creation.
Nothing just shows up. If anything exists it is because God caused it. God is Sovereign over His creation.

For these initial reasons and Scripture I believe God created the first man and woman (Adam and Eve) sinful.
That's the only way they can be created for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His Glory to NO ONE.
Man was not created possessing any of the Nature or Deific Attributes of God. If man possessed even just one Deific Attribute of God, he would by necessity must possess ALL Deific Attributes of God else he would still fall short of the Glory of God. God is the standard by which anything and everything shall be judged against.
Bible Study.

The law was always there, it is part of Gods character. Adam and Eve knew God and His love, but chose another to follow into sin.

 

[ChristB4us]

I do and I have.
Now let me explain how this is done.
Christ fulfilled all God's commandments. Every one. Perfectly. The only one that did and has.
In my conversion the Holy Spirit of Christ dwells in me as result of the Son's atonement and in my calling.

Okay. That would apply to all believers in Jesus Christ, both Jew & Greek.

I believe the kingdom of God is not a place but a Person. Christ.

I am seeing that also for how we are one with God to live with Him forever since Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom. Unfortunately, not every saved believers that has been called will be chosen to attend the Marriage Supper in that "kingdom of Heaven" above for why it is also a place and yet where God dwells.

You cannot have the apostle John taken to Paradise in the third Heaven to see the things that he did and heard to write the Book of Revelation as testified by the apostle John ( indirectly ) below.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I suspect Paul had referred to this warning in Revelation for why it is not lawful for a man to utter, les they add or take away from the words of the book.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

And the kingdom of God is within me. I am hidden in Christ. When God seeks to see me, He doesn't see me, but Christ in me and the finished work performed on the cross. Being my substitute and in me as God sees Christ fulfilling the commandments of God, He also 'sees' me as fulfilling the commandments of God. This is my justification, my being declared "Not Guilty!"

I believe the new reality in Christ in alignment with what you are sharing is this;

Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But physical fornication is not the only sin that can offend the Lord Jesus Christ in us, but spiritual fornication also when saved believers believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues or any other sensational sign in the flesh, even one of feeling a filling of the "holy Spirit" as if it is a continual event to experienced it even though He was received by faith in Jesus Christ as promised.

Being disabled I don't work. But if I work or don't work, I wouldn't keep the sabbath for the sabbath was given to the children of Israel in covenant and I am not a Jew. At least I don't think I am. But in being born again and the fact the Holy Spirit was promised to Israel I wonder. Whether some believe it so or not God is very ethnic. If I have even one drop of Hebrew blood in me, I would fall under covenant as do the Samaritans.

I do not believe any Christian of Jewish background fall under the Old Covenant and neither do the Samaritans as there is only one gospel and only one body of Christ.

Romans 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[ChristB4us]

She exercised her knowledge of Scripture concerning Him. Same with the Roman centurion. The woman also knew her 'place.' She knew He was not sent to Gentiles because He is a Jewish Messiah. Too bad Gentile Christians today don't recognize their 'place' as did this woman.

And yet Jesus being a Jew, crossed that line.

From the Jewish mindset AND the Jewish Scriptures, the command of God to covenant Israel in who to love is found in Leviticus 19:17-19:

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother [member of the same tribe] in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour [member of another tribe situated by God living next to another tribe], and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [member of any tribe], but thou shalt love thy neighbour [member of another tribe situated by God living next to another tribe] as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev. 19:17–18.

Not even God cast His Pearls to swine nor gives that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant.)

The Samaritan, priest, and Levite were in covenant with God. You do see that, right?

The woman at the well was covenant Israel. She had every right to the well and to Christ and she was one who was waiting for this promise of God to come. And viola! There He is. She awaited the Messiah and Messiah came giving her Abrahamic blessings.

The Samaritan woman spoke of the separation between Jews & Samaritans.

John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

It was important to report by John that the disciples were not there when this had occurred for why His disciples had asked this question when they had returned.

John 4:27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?

Jesus had to break the divide by revealing who that neighbour is in relation to Israel.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Unless I am missing something; do you have scripture testifying to the Samaritans being under the Old Covenant as well? I cannot find it as much as I tried a word search at Bible Gateway to find that connection.

At any rate, so far, it looks like there is a separation between the Jews & the Samaritans by seeing the Samaritans as Gentiles to separate themselves as Jews from them.